Sign. Ken. Hamlin. Now.

[BTG]

Now that free agency has calmed down a bit and the price of players has lowered, the Bengals need to start looking around for players to fill the many gaps they have on defense.

As of right now, their linebacking corps is thin, their defensive line is average (at best), and their safeties consist of Madieu Williams, Dexter "I'm a good player, but I can't stay healthy" Jackson, Herana-Daze Jones, John Busing, and Ethan Kilmer -- not exactly the Murderers Row of football.

With three need positions and only two draft picks on the first day, the Bengals need to make a move to help solidify one of these areas. Unfortunately for them, there are very few linebackers or defensive linemen who could help next year (or down the road) on the current market, and with the 18th pick there will likely be no safeties worthy of being selected so high.

That said, there is still a safety on the market whose talent could serve the Bengals defense with a heavy dose of flair and hitting ability: Ken Hamlin.

At 26 years of age, he could step in to the Cincinnati lineup and play a key role in helping their defense. If nothing else, he would provide them with the depth they so obviously lack. Think about it, with Kaseviharn gone to the Saints, the Bengals are one injury away from starting a practice squad player (Jones and Busing) or a seventh round draft pick with one year of experience at safety in his entire football career (Kilmer). As if the pass defense wasn't bad enough last season....

But I suppose this makes too much sense.

[bengalsfan17]

Now that free agency has calmed down a bit and the price of players has lowered, the Bengals need to start looking around for players to fill the many gaps they have on defense.

As of right now, their linebacking corps is thin, their defensive line is average (at best), and their safeties consist of Madieu Williams, Dexter "I'm a good player, but I can't stay healthy" Jackson, Herana-Daze Jones, John Busing, and Ethan Kilmer -- not exactly the Murderers Row of football.

With three need positions and only two draft picks on the first day, the Bengals need to make a move to help solidify one of these areas. Unfortunately for them, there are very few linebackers or defensive linemen who could help next year (or down the road) on the current market, and with the 18th pick there will likely be no safeties worthy of being selected so high.

That said, there is still a safety on the market whose talent could serve the Bengals defense with a heavy dose of flair and hitting ability: Ken Hamlin.

At 26 years of age, he could step in to the Cincinnati lineup and play a key role in helping their defense. If nothing else, he would provide them with the depth they so obviously lack. Think about it, with Kaseviharn gone to the Saints, the Bengals are one injury away from starting a practice squad player (Jones and Busing) or a seventh round draft pick with one year of experience at safety in his entire football career (Kilmer). As if the pass defense wasn't bad enough last season....

But I suppose this makes too much sense.

I would rather draft reggie nelson and sign an Ian Scott or Alphonso Boone....they need a pass rushing DT and the playmaking of a reggie nelson

[Spor_tees]

I thought Ken Hamlin already got signed. Wasn't it San Fransisco?

[HoosierCat]

'Frisco signed Michael Lewis, not Hamlin. I believe he's still available. But I doubt he comes any cheaper than Kase...

[hrod382]

'Frisco signed Michael Lewis, not Hamlin. I believe he's still available. But I doubt he comes any cheaper than Kase...

Exactly. If he was anywhere close to what KK wanted then the Saints would've signed him instead. He'd be a pretty decent fit but he'll want massive money for an above average guy. Many of the solid safties in the league were day 2 picks or we could take a guy like Reggie Nelson in the 1st.

[derekshank]

I really do see us going CB and LB in the first 2 rounds. Those are very expensive to get via free agency. Therefore, DT's and Safeties are the more reasonably priced free agents (as evidenced by last years free agents, Dexter Jackson and Sam Adams).

If we do anything at all, I'd expect it to once again be at one or both of those positions (although as mentioned in another thread, KK and S. Smith will likely attempt to be replaced on the second day of the draft).

[Spor_tees]

Ohalte and Askew are still available I believe. They already know the system so they would fit in quickly!

[HoosierCat]

Ohalte and Askew are still available I believe. They already know the system so they would fit in quickly!

I saw a note someplace a few days ago, can't remember where, to the effect that the Bengals were talking with Anthony Mitchell about him coming back. Going in to FA they were believed to have no interest in his return.

[TJJackson]

Louis Breeden is available, I think.....not much speed or strength, but a lot of age

[BTG]

I know, let's bring back Lamont Thompson!!

[TJJackson]

I think he's still in the league, actually

How about Tremain Mack? http://www.cincypost.com/sports/1998/mack120398.html

ShulaSteakhouse should be able to see the bridge from his office window, and see if Tremain is catching a nap again within a stone's throw of the new practice fields

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Ohalte and Askew are still available I believe. They already know the system so they would fit in quickly!

And that system would be how our secondary gets systematically burned, right? Ohalate was certainly good at that.

[BTG]

sarcasm > you

[James_Brooks21]

Now that free agency has calmed down a bit and the price of players has lowered, the Bengals need to start looking around for players to fill the many gaps they have on defense.

Give up man like I did weeks ago, the Bengals are not about to sign anybody to the team that was not here last year or used to be on the team. Just look forward to perhaps the draft that's the next person or people that you can get sort of excited about that the bengals are getting.

[Stripes]

As has been stated, Ken Hamlin would be [much] more expensive than Kaesviharn was. If Hobson's projections are anywhere near accurate, I doubt the Bengals will pursue any noteable free agents. Hamlin was among the best safeties available when free agency began, let alone the best now.

[HoosierCat]

Now that free agency has calmed down a bit and the price of players has lowered, the Bengals need to start looking around for players to fill the many gaps they have on defense.

Give up man like I did weeks ago, the Bengals are not about to sign anybody to the team that was not here last year or used to be on the team. Just look forward to perhaps the draft that's the next person or people that you can get sort of excited about that the bengals are getting.

Ya never know. I figure that if Hobson is at all correct in his estimate of what they were prepared to give K2, then they have in hand about $1.5m of cap space they are willing to use. Assuming they don't match for Smith by Friday, that would free up another $850k of space. Hobson also said they would have given $2m guaranteed to K2; throw in Smith's number and that rises to nearly $3m in guaranteed coin theoretically available.

So: ~$3m available for guaranteed money purposes, and ~$2.3m of cap space. If they wanted to, they could probbly fit a Hamlin in under that.

And if that's too much they could probably get Terrance Kiel for a couple cases of codine...

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Now that free agency has calmed down a bit and the price of players has lowered, the Bengals need to start looking around for players to fill the many gaps they have on defense.

Give up man like I did weeks ago, the Bengals are not about to sign anybody to the team that was not here last year or used to be on the team. Just look forward to perhaps the draft that's the next person or people that you can get sort of excited about that the bengals are getting.

Ya never know. I figure that if Hobson is at all correct in his estimate of what they were prepared to give K2, then they have in hand about $1.5m of cap space they are willing to use. Assuming they don't match for Smith by Friday, that would free up another $850k of space. Hobson also said they would have given $2m guaranteed to K2; throw in Smith's number and that rises to nearly $3m in guaranteed coin theoretically available.

So: ~$3m available for guaranteed money purposes, and ~$2.3m of cap space. If they wanted to, they could probbly fit a Hamlin in under that.

And if that's too much they could probably get Terrance Kiel for a couple cases of codine...

In those calculations factor in the fact that if they don't match Smith, they also have to get another DT too. In this market, that has to either be a draft pick, or it will cost more than Smith.

I'm intrigued by your notion of trafficking in Purple Drank.

[HoosierCat]

In those calculations factor in the fact that if they don't match Smith, they also have to get another DT too. In this market, that has to either be a draft pick, or it will cost more than Smith.

I'm intrigued by your notion of trafficking in Purple Drank.

Well, y'know, in order to stay competitive Mikey needs to open up some new revenue streams...

Re: DT, per Hobson's new notes column, the Bengals will not match the Browns' offer (no surprise) and will look to fill the spot via the draft, college free agents, practice squad players and players from the IR list. Yep, he actually named all those options. I was sort of surprised it wasn't followed by "and inviting really hefty fans to come on the field and try out during preseason."

Hobson also spills the beans on (cue heavenly choir music) A FA VISIT. Yes, an actual, honest-to-god, confirmed FA visit!

Of course, it's over and the guy's looking elsewhere...

The agent for former Cardinals center Alex Stepanovich, an Ohio State product, said his client came to town a few days ago but that may be all.

“He had a great visit. He likes the coaches and it seems like a good fit but he’s leaning in a different direction,” Ralph Cindrich said Wednesday.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

In those calculations factor in the fact that if they don't match Smith, they also have to get another DT too. In this market, that has to either be a draft pick, or it will cost more than Smith.

I'm intrigued by your notion of trafficking in Purple Drank.

Well, y'know, in order to stay competitive Mikey needs to open up some new revenue streams...

Re: DT, per Hobson's new notes column, the Bengals will not match the Browns' offer (no surprise) and will look to fill the spot via the draft, college free agents, practice squad players and players from the IR list. Yep, he actually named all those options. I was sort of surprised it wasn't followed by "and inviting really hefty fans to come on the field and try out during preseason."

Hobson also spills the beans on (cue heavenly choir music) A FA VISIT. Yes, an actual, honest-to-god, confirmed FA visit!

Of course, it's over and the guy's looking elsewhere...

The agent for former Cardinals center Alex Stepanovich, an Ohio State product, said his client came to town a few days ago but that may be all.

“He had a great visit. He likes the coaches and it seems like a good fit but he’s leaning in a different direction,” Ralph Cindrich said Wednesday.

Jesus that's pathetic. I'd missed Hobson's column. Now, just for clarification - are we looking at signing players expected to be on IR this upcoming year? Because I'm sure that would come pretty cheap and all. And, sadly, a corner on IR is still probably faster than Tory James, so that's an upgrade.

As for filling it through the draft - good luck - we desperately need LBs, probably an O-lineman, a DT, probably a corner, and a safety. From your calculations, we have enough to sign one decent player for those spots, or alternately two s**tty ones. Let's hope that one guy has Adaleus Thomas like versatility. Maybe I'll start watching Arena League and see if the Bengals will pay me to be a scout.

Well, at least we'll save money in one place - we don't have a 3rd round pick. ;P

[derekshank]

Jesus that's pathetic. I'd missed Hobson's column. Now, just for clarification - are we looking at signing players expected to be on IR this upcoming year? Because I'm sure that would come pretty cheap and all. And, sadly, a corner on IR is still probably faster than Tory James, so that's an upgrade.

As for filling it through the draft - good luck - we desperately need LBs, probably an O-lineman, a DT, probably a corner, and a safety. From your calculations, we have enough to sign one decent player for those spots, or alternately two s**tty ones. Let's hope that one guy has Adaleus Thomas like versatility. Maybe I'll start watching Arena League and see if the Bengals will pay me to be a scout.

Well, at least we'll save money in one place - we don't have a 3rd round pick. ;P

Wow. You make this sound a lot worse than I've ever considered it. A replacement for S. Smith at DT shouldn't be too difficult to find on the 2nd day... especially since we under utilized the guy anyway. I'm also not 100% convinced that KK's role for this team can't be performed by players we've already got (and can get in the draft... especially if we take a 1st round CB).

The point is... the situation doesn't seem nearly as dire as you paint it. A few players have gotten away from us. Most are back-ups, and with the exception of KK, their roles were extremely limited. We've lost 3 "starters" in Steiny, Simmons, and James. But James wouldn't be starting here even if we hadn't lost him... I'm not convinced that Landon Johnson is any worse than Simmons (who was out a good amount of last year anyway) and we drafted a good replacement for Steiny last year. In other words... the only players we've lost that haven't already been replaced, can easily be replaced via the draft or a few reasonably priced FA's.

[Kazkal]

Agreed with everything derek said...plus experiance does help another year under our belt...

[HoosierCat]

In other words... the only players we've lost that haven't already been replaced, can easily be replaced via the draft or a few reasonably priced FA's.

If by "replaced" you mean "we can find bodies to fill their spots," well, yeah. But if you mean that we can find players, well, that's another kettle of fish. How many starting DTs, corners, safeties or LBs -- or even solid backups -- have we found on day 2 of the draft recently? Well...there's Peko, and...uhhh, hmmm. We have had some success on the o-line with Koo and Andrews, but even then it took three years to develop Stacy and all signs point to his departure after this year.

Even on day 1, where this year we have but two picks, success has been mixed. At corner, Joseph looks promising; Ratliff's a bust. Madieu has had one good year, one on IR, and one not-so-good year. Of four day 1 LBs, two are backups and two may never play again.

Since it appears that by the time FA approaches anything the Bengals will consider "reasonably priced" there will be nothing left worth buying, filling all these holes will require a draft that would certainly be the best in Bengals history, to say the least. Well, you never know, maybe this is the year. But it seems unlikely.

[derekshank]

In other words... the only players we've lost that haven't already been replaced, can easily be replaced via the draft or a few reasonably priced FA's.

How many starting DTs, corners, safeties or LBs -- or even solid backups -- have we found on day 2 of the draft recently? Well...there's Peko, and...uhhh, hmmm. We have had some success on the o-line with Koo and Andrews, but even then it took three years to develop Stacy and all signs point to his departure after this year.

I'd say that the main reason for that is because we don't have many DT's, LB's, CB's, and Safeties that we've taken on the second day. Here's a list of all those guys in the Marvin era: Langston Moore, Matthias Askew, Greg Brooks, Jonathan Fanene, Peko, A.J. Nicholson, Ethan Kilmer.

5 of those are still with the team, and are role players. The 2 that are'nt: Langston Moore, who if I recall is one of the dearly departed who you have lamented in the past... similar to S. Smith and KK (both undrafted by the way), so Askew is the only guy on that list you can say was a failed experiment. I'd say that's pretty decent.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Jesus that's pathetic. I'd missed Hobson's column. Now, just for clarification - are we looking at signing players expected to be on IR this upcoming year? Because I'm sure that would come pretty cheap and all. And, sadly, a corner on IR is still probably faster than Tory James, so that's an upgrade.

As for filling it through the draft - good luck - we desperately need LBs, probably an O-lineman, a DT, probably a corner, and a safety. From your calculations, we have enough to sign one decent player for those spots, or alternately two s**tty ones. Let's hope that one guy has Adaleus Thomas like versatility. Maybe I'll start watching Arena League and see if the Bengals will pay me to be a scout.

Well, at least we'll save money in one place - we don't have a 3rd round pick. ;P

Wow. You make this sound a lot worse than I've ever considered it. A replacement for S. Smith at DT shouldn't be too difficult to find on the 2nd day... especially since we under utilized the guy anyway. I'm also not 100% convinced that KK's role for this team can't be performed by players we've already got (and can get in the draft... especially if we take a 1st round CB).

The point is... the situation doesn't seem nearly as dire as you paint it. A few players have gotten away from us. Most are back-ups, and with the exception of KK, their roles were extremely limited. We've lost 3 "starters" in Steiny, Simmons, and James. But James wouldn't be starting here even if we hadn't lost him... I'm not convinced that Landon Johnson is any worse than Simmons (who was out a good amount of last year anyway) and we drafted a good replacement for Steiny last year. In other words... the only players we've lost that haven't already been replaced, can easily be replaced via the draft or a few reasonably priced FA's.

The reason I'm not thrilled is simply numbers. We need another O-lineman to replace Steinbach. We won't get one as good, obviously. We also still need a solid CB who can step up to be nickel corner, unless you want to see some more Ratliff. We need a safety. We need depth at LB, at least 1 maybe 2, preferably a starter. We need another DT.

Now I've no doubt that we can get someone about on S. Smith's level and a backup LB. But we will not be able to replace KK *and* Steinbach *and* get a starter-quality CB and LB in the draft in addition to that, given we have only 2 1st-day picks. We might be able to sign someone of decent quality at one of those positions if Mikey gets up off his ass and does something about it.

At that point, we're in the position where we need 4 starter-level people out of rounds 1 and 2 + 1 FA (note that's numerically impossible). We need 3 *quality* backups (not practice squad filler) out of rounds 4-7. Basically, to pull this off they'd need to have the best draft in the history of the NFL (well, not counting the one where Dallas had 27 picks from the Herschell Walker trade).

And that's just to keep from moving backwards, while this defense needs some serious improvement. Oh, and it also assumes that Deltha gets his ass back on track, or else one of those first day picks absolutely has to be a corner and we roll the dice with Ratliff as the nickel, as fun as that is.

The one thing I'm pretty sure of is that we don't have the people on the team to replace what was lost. Yes, Whitworth might fill Steinbach's shoes, but who fills his as the primary go-to backup? Who's our nickel corner (please don't say Ratliff). Who are our LBs? Who replaces KK? (I'm not totally sold on Kilmer yet - we *might* get a brak there, but we might not).

I don't want to be the guy who's about to jump out the window, but I'm pretty worried as I see quality leave and none arrive, and I think we have more spots to fill than we have picks. Especially when one realizes that 1) not all picks pan out, particularly day 2 picks, and 2) they won't all be ready to do what we need by 2007.

[HoosierCat]

5 of those are still with the team, and are role players.

Well, that's my point. A few more role players aren't going to cut it. In order to fill in all our needs we'll need to find either starters or solid No. 2s all the way through round seven. That's asking a lot.