Updated: K2 a Saint

[HairOnFire]

With James already gone, I would say the loss of K2 pretty much locks the Bengals into DB in round one, too. Which doesn't help either; FA is supposed to allow you to free up options in the draft, not limit them. No, losing K2 wouldn't be a calamity -- but make no mistake, it would hurt.

It'll hurt if it actually happens (I still have some hope), but in my opinion the loss shouldn't lock down the Bengals 1st round strategy. There are CB prospects likely to be available to them in the 2nd round whose availability ensures them the flexibility needed to select a DT, LB, or S at #18, and their flexibility at CB is further enhanced by the potential move of Madieu Williams. And in a potential move that will have very little popular support from anyone but myself it sould be noted that with Tory James finally out of the starting picture the Bengals could actually give Keiwan Ratliff some playing time....something I was in favor of before last season began, and even more so after seeing how badly James was slipping. Last, Kaesviharn was used almost exclusively as a safety in recent years so it's in the deep secondary that his loss would be felt the most, not at CB.

[HoosierCat]

It'll hurt if it actually happens (I still have some hope), but in my opinion the loss shouldn't lock down the Bengals 1st round strategy. There are CB prospects likely to be available to them in the 2nd round whose availability ensures them the flexibility needed to select a DT, LB, or S at #18, and their flexibility at CB is further enhanced by the potential move of Madieu Williams. And in a potential move that will have very little popular support from anyone but myself it sould be noted that with Tory James finally out of the starting picture the Bengals could actually give Keiwan Ratliff some playing time....something I was in favor of before last season began, and even more so after seeing how badly James was slipping. Last, Kaesviharn was used almost exclusively as a safety in recent years so it's in the deep secondary that his loss would be felt the most, not at CB.

The whole "move Williams to corner" concept leaves me cold. Not to mention that the best support for doing so was that we could plug K2 in at safety. I agree, they might as well play Ratliff more at corner. Only problem is that is that if he plays poorly (as seems likely) that's no answer, and if he plays well you can likely wave bye-bye to him after '07 because he'll be a UFA. As will Williams next year, and possibly Greg Brooks if he just inks the one-year RFA tender. Right now, beyond '07 I think the only DBs of note we've got signed are Dexter, O'Neal and Joseph. Sorry, but it's looking like DB all the way to me.

[HairOnFire]

Sorry, but it's looking like DB all the way to me.

Well, that's what I've been saying for a couple of months now...so I'm not going to argue the point for very long. CB was always one of the most likely targets for the 1st round pick, right? All I disagree with is the idea that the loss of K2 prevents the Bengals from looking elsewhere in the 1st round.

[Kirkendall]

Yea, usually when the games come on, I tend to watch infomercials with Billy Mays. But if we lose KK, how much further back does our defense go?

How much better does it get? K2 was hardly responsible for our poor pass D last season -- as you yourself pointed out when you cited his career year. So shrugging your shoulders and saying no big deal when one of the few things that actually worked goes away, makes sense?

Like I said, if he signs, great. If not, I'm not going to find another picky way to complain about the Bengals front office, ad nauseum, because they couldn't sign a backup player.

[HoosierCat]

Like I said, if he signs, great. If not, I'm not going to find another picky way to complain about the Bengals front office, ad nauseum, because they couldn't sign a backup player.

Well, y'know, a backup here, a backup there, pretty soon you're talking about real talent. And again, considering the guy has started something like 2/3rds of games over the last two years, waving him away as just a backup strikes me as whistling past the proverbial graveyard.

Picky? I dunno, maybe that would be a fair definition if the Bengals were doing anything out of the ordinary and I were trying to poke holes in their actions...but they aren't. Sign their own top-tier talent? Yep, they have -- but they usually do. Avoid outside FA like the plague? Yep, they have -- but they usually do. Lose key second-tier guys because they (say they) can't afford them? Actually, that isn't all that ususual either, but the number of those losses looks to be larger this season. Promise forthcoming miracles from young'uns and draft picks? Yep, that's the usual answer, too.

Well, maybe it'll be different this time around. Maybe this is the year that the Bengals do the same things they always do, expecting different results -- and actually get them. No one would be happier than me. But experience has taught me that in football, rookie miracles are rare, youth movements proceed in fits and starts at best, and veteran backups are always underappraciated while they're around.

[Stripes]

Well, maybe it'll be different this time around. Maybe this is the year that the Bengals do the same things they always do, expecting different results -- and actually get them. No one would be happier than me. But experience has taught me that in football, rookie miracles are rare, youth movements proceed in fits and starts at best, and veteran backups are always underappraciated while they're around.

I don't think anyone really expects any rookies to have miracle seasons. Given the gradual and admittedly slow improvement Marvin's defense have shown since 2003, I simply expect more of the same. The current young players will be just a little better (and probably still inconsistent), and the new draft class will only bolster the total talent present on the roster. In a year or two I expect the youth to have improved to a level at least capable of satisfying Bengals fans with an above average season. Through the 2007 season, we'll almost certainly still see some of the same struggles and and the same improvement we've gotten used to seeing. My hope is that the good and bad start to come closer to a balance.

I honestly think it's unfair to expect the Bengals to make every move that may improve them for 2007 when the future beyond 2007 is probably more promising with what we have. Even if the yardage numbers continue to be unimpressive, if the defense can finish the season under 20 points per game, I'll be entirely satisfied with that sign of continued improvement.

As for KK, It'd certainly hurt to lose him. Still, I'd rather the Bengals lose backups like he and Shaun Smith to free agency than impact starters like Justin Smith.

[Kazkal]

agreed KK deserves get some money...but seems all teams intrested in him is same role he had here backup / sub package player... with mybe short 1-2 year fix if he goes AZ.

[HoosierCat]

Small update: K2's agent hopes to "bring things to a head" by tomorrow...

http://www.nola.com/saints/t-p/index.ssf?/....xml&coll=1

[Dawg BpG]

Saints | Team signs Kaesviharn

Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:43:44 -0800

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports the New Orleans Saints have signed free-agent S Kevin Kaesviharn (Bengals) to a four-year contract worth $10 million with $3.2 million guaranteed.

[HoosierCat]

Saints | Team signs Kaesviharn

Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:43:44 -0800

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports the New Orleans Saints have signed free-agent S Kevin Kaesviharn (Bengals) to a four-year contract worth $10 million with $3.2 million guaranteed.

Later, Kev. And congrats -- you get paid and still get to go to a good team! Best of luck as long as you aren't playing us.

Hobson's take includes this bit:

With the Bengals saying they have little room under the salary cap, no doubt the Saints offered Kaesviharn more in a signing bonus ($3.25 million according to Yahoo Sports) than Cincinnati felt it could handle.

Hmmm...okay...the prorated hit from a $3.25m SB would be a whopping -- whopping!!! -- $813k. They couldn't take an eight hundred thousand dollar cap hit? Wow. [sarcasm] Awesome cap management indeed [/sarcasm]

[James_Brooks21]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=ArCo...t&type=lgns

I'm going to miss that guy, I call him the playmaker like Michael Irvin. When the Bengals needed a big play on defense at the end of the game last year he was usually the one making the big play. I wish we could have kept him and got rid of Keiwan Ratliff, it's crazy to me how that guy was a second round pick and KK went undrafted. Getting a backup safety in that draft is a priority I don't have much faith in Indiana Jones or Kilmer, I know Kilmer got a pick for a touchdown but he looked pretty slow running it back. I don't think I want that guy as our backup safety, hell of a special team guy but I don't want to count on him as our everyday starter if one of our starters get hurt. I don't know what Marvin is going to do with Keiwan, I cringe everytime I see him out on the field the Deion Sanders wannabe has the speed of a linebacker.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Well another staple of the horrific defenses, of the early 2000's is finally gone.

But yeah it's looking more and more like DB on day one.

From Lance's blog page:

Bengals clip and save/things I'm told

Bengals have requested an April visit to PBS for

Usama Young (CB - Kent State)

March 9 Pro Day Results

5'11, 196 lbs.

4.38, 4.40 40 time

43 inch vertical jump

19 teams were at his workout and 3 team have already been to Kent State to work him out personally. He started every game his career at Kent State & scouts have described him as the type of kid who is the first off the bus to play. No character issues.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=ArCo...t&type=lgns

I'm going to miss that guy, I call him the playmaker like Michael Irvin. When the Bengals needed a big play on defense at the end of the game last year he was usually the one making the big play. I wish we could have kept him and got rid of Keiwan Ratliff, it's crazy to me how that guy was a second round pick and KK went undrafted. Getting a backup safety in that draft is a priority I don't have much faith in Indiana Jones or Kilmer, I know Kilmer got a pick for a touchdown but he looked pretty slow running it back. I don't think I want that guy as our backup safety, hell of a special team guy but I don't want to count on him as our everyday starter if one of our starters get hurt. I don't know what Marvin is going to do with Keiwan, I cringe everytime I see him out on the field the Deion Sanders wannabe has the speed of a linebacker.

Slow eh? With a 4.38" forty, 41" vert, and doing 19 reps of 225 on his pro day - I'd say he's quite the athlete, and possibly better than K2 as a safety or WR in the near future (and already a better Special Teamer).

That play vs the Saints was big time - I am quite interested in seeing what he can do at Safety, as KK's replacement. Not sure if/when he'll be ready.

[CPalmer9]

per kffl.com

Saints | Team signs Kaesviharn

Tue, 13 Mar 2007 15:43:44 -0800

Adam Schefter, of the NFL Network, reports the New Orleans Saints have signed free-agent S Kevin Kaesviharn (Bengals) to a four-year contract worth $10 million with $3.2 million guaranteed.

mods pelase delete

[HoosierCat]

Don't sweat it, CPalmer, even us mods post before we look from time to time...

That play vs the Saints was big time

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Robert Bean had a pick his first game, too, IIRC. Feel free to hope, but don't expect anything. That way, you can only be pleasantly surprised.

[BigBenBlows]

I think it sucks. I always liked him. Oh well I guess that's business.

[Stripes]

Farwell, KK.

Maybe a first round safety wouldn't be so bad after all.

[rishipatel]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=ArCo...t&type=lgns

I'm going to miss that guy, I call him the playmaker like Michael Irvin. When the Bengals needed a big play on defense at the end of the game last year he was usually the one making the big play. I wish we could have kept him and got rid of Keiwan Ratliff, it's crazy to me how that guy was a second round pick and KK went undrafted. Getting a backup safety in that draft is a priority I don't have much faith in Indiana Jones or Kilmer, I know Kilmer got a pick for a touchdown but he looked pretty slow running it back. I don't think I want that guy as our backup safety, hell of a special team guy but I don't want to count on him as our everyday starter if one of our starters get hurt. I don't know what Marvin is going to do with Keiwan, I cringe everytime I see him out on the field the Deion Sanders wannabe has the speed of a linebacker.

About the only criticism people can't give this guy is that he's slow. Well, besides that he's a good special teamer. His speed and athleticism was one of the reason's they drafted him in the first place. Everything else is a question mark about him since he hasn't really played otherwise. And one INT doesn't necessarily mean anything about future production. He has great upside if developed well, and I could see him being a future replacement for K2.

[jjakq27]

Personally I like the guy. Always have. On paper he shouldn't even be playing but he always made his share of plays when he got in. Many when it really mattered. (See Carolina and NO games in '06). Too bad some of his secondary mates weren't able to learn about dedication and hard work from him. I agree with the above statement about ditching Ratliff and keeping KK.

Good Luck to him. I hope he does well.

[HairOnFire]

Hmmm...okay...the prorated hit from a $3.25m SB would be a whopping -- whopping!!! -- $813k. They couldn't take an eight hundred thousand dollar cap hit? Wow. [sarcasm] Awesome cap management indeed [/sarcasm]

Yeah, like you weren't going to sarcastically criticize the loss no matter what the circumstances were. Sheesh, I would have bet a years salary on it. Regardless, if we can all agree that the signing bonus produces a cap hit so small that it provokes sarcasm then perhaps your biggest problem isn't with the Bengals, and should instead be directed at Hobson's speculation that the Bengals couldn't assume the small cap hit. And if you truly believe that's laughable then the conclusion you quickly reach is that the Bengals refused to pay more than they felt Kaesviharn was worth.

A quick recap? The Cardinals were rumored to have made K2 an offer but when he stalled they signed another FS for peanuts...implying that their offer to Kaesviharn was either comparable to the one made by the Bengals or inferior. The Browns were also said to have made an offer, but immediately after hearing it Kaesviharn's agent told a New Orleans newspaper that his client would either sign with the Saints or return to the Bengals, thereby suggesting the Browns offer was at best comparable and quite possibly inferior to the one made by the Bengals. As for the Saints, Kaesviharn sat on their offer for more than a week while considering a return to the Bengals, making it almost certain that the Bengals original offer was still considered fair and competitive.

In short, all of the above teams have more salary cap room than the Bengals, but each made offers to Kaesviharn that were very close to the Bengals offer....making it clear that the Bengals had correctly determined Kaesviharn's market value from the start, and history proves the Bengals very rarely pay more for a player than they've determined he's worth.

[Kazkal]

Hmmm don't the Saints have 2 young future starters at S or is he gonna have same role as he did here?

DB for sure day 1...I like K2 and all but I really don't see this hurting us much if at all...

don't want to count on him as our everyday starter

I wouldn't want to count on k2 as a everyday starter either...He's great when the starter is healthy and he gets X amount of snaps...but I still don't feel safe when he's the full time starter.

[HoosierCat]

As for the Saints, Kaesviharn sat on their offer for more than a week while considering a return to the Bengals, making it almost certain that the Bengals original offer was still considered fair and competitive.

Hobs puts the Bengals' offer in the 4 years, $6m range...so, no.

[Dawg BpG]

Does anyone else think this might mean that the Benglas will match the offer for Smith???

If you had re-signed KK there was no way you matched the offer for Smith...now, I dunno

[agreen_112]

^^ All I think this means is we're cutting the dead weight. I like KK, and he's been good to us and came through for the most part, but he's not a playmaker. We've got a young Kilmer, who looks promising, KK wasn't worth the money to keep him... Congrats to KK, he's came a long way, this is for the best for both the Bengals and Kevin.

Does this leave us with more than 3 million cap space?

[derekshank]

Farwell, KK.

Maybe a first round safety wouldn't be so bad after all.

If either Landry or Nelson are there at 18, I'd be all over it. Especially considering how many fast OLB are likely to drop to our spot in the 2nd. However, I don't expect either of those guys to be there, so I'm guessing we'll take the best CB on the board. Considering the CB class, we might be the first to take a CB... so take your pick.

[AMC]

Nice to have ya Ethan Kilmer....