Updated: K2 a Saint

[HoosierCat]

from Curnutte...

Kaesviharn visits Browns

The Cleveland Browns, who a week ago signed Bengals unrestricted free agent guard Eric Steinbach to a seven-year contract, entertained Bengals UFA safety Kevin Kaesviharn for a visit on Thursday, the office of agent Bruce Tollner confirmed this afternoon.

Saints and Browns ...K2's gonna score...huh-huh...huh-huh...

[Stripes]

There's something I don't want to see happen. Hopefully this transpires in similar fashion to the Kelly deal.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

There's something I don't want to see happen. Hopefully this transpires in similar fashion to the Kelly deal.

Who's our leader on defense who's going to talk him into it like Carson did Kelly? The guy who might have made that call will be in New Orleans. Coincidentally one of the teams he's looking at.

[BengalByTheBay]

There's something I don't want to see happen. Hopefully this transpires in similar fashion to the Kelly deal.

Who's our leader on defense who's going to talk him into it like Carson did Kelly? The guy who might have made that call will be in New Orleans. Coincidentally one of the teams he's looking at.

Maybe - it would be interesting to know what goes on there and whether any player really changes their plan based on what a teammate, or prospective teammate says. I really don't know. It makes a nice story that RK decided to stay after Palmer called him, but there may have been some other factors at work as well. And, the deals may not have been that far apart. As for KK getting a call from Simmons, that sounds a little bit out of character for him from everything I read. He seems to do his job and go home. Basically, I would give KK credit for going where he can get the most money, absent some other benefits to make up the difference.

[HoosierCat]

Basically, I would give KK credit for going where he can get the most money, absent some other benefits to make up the difference.

Yeah, its hard to blame Kase for shopping. Kelly at least had one nice FA deal with the bengals a few years ago, and now gets another pile. K2's been from Arena league to NFL backup and now he's hitting 30 and suddenly has his one and only chance for a sizeable score. If anyone deserves an "outrageous" contract, IMHO it's him.

[BengalByTheBay]

Basically, I would give KK credit for going where he can get the most money, absent some other benefits to make up the difference.

Yeah, its hard to blame Kase for shopping. Kelly at least had one nice FA deal with the bengals a few years ago, and now gets another pile. K2's been from Arena league to NFL backup and now he's hitting 30 and suddenly has his one and only chance for a sizeable score. If anyone deserves an "outrageous" contract, IMHO it's him.

It would be hard to argue with him trying to maximize his contract -- his last season was a career year that I would be shocked to see him ever approximate again. All those interceptions sure make it harder to focus on how easy it is to run past him (or over him). Sorry to sound like Shula, but KK is a backup at best -- versatile and good to have if he's cheap, but how can you justify pushing even $1 mil. a year his way??

[HoosierCat]

Basically, I would give KK credit for going where he can get the most money, absent some other benefits to make up the difference.

Yeah, its hard to blame Kase for shopping. Kelly at least had one nice FA deal with the bengals a few years ago, and now gets another pile. K2's been from Arena league to NFL backup and now he's hitting 30 and suddenly has his one and only chance for a sizeable score. If anyone deserves an "outrageous" contract, IMHO it's him.

It would be hard to argue with him trying to maximize his contract -- his last season was a career year that I would be shocked to see him ever approximate again. All those interceptions sure make it harder to focus on how easy it is to run past him (or over him). Sorry to sound like Shula, but KK is a backup at best -- versatile and good to have if he's cheap, but how can you justify pushing even $1 mil. a year his way??

Well, hell, Marcus Wilkins is making $1m/year...you saying K2 is no better? I've always like Kase, he's the little DB that could. Yeah, he gets run over and gives up big plays...he also makes big hits and big plays. Feast or famine. I think he's been a hell of a player for this team and refuse to begrudge him a dime.

[HairOnFire]

Basically, I would give KK credit for going where he can get the most money, absent some other benefits to make up the difference.

Yeah, its hard to blame Kase for shopping. Kelly at least had one nice FA deal with the bengals a few years ago, and now gets another pile. K2's been from Arena league to NFL backup and now he's hitting 30 and suddenly has his one and only chance for a sizeable score. If anyone deserves an "outrageous" contract, IMHO it's him.

Complete agreement. It's easy to criticize K2 but in my opinion he's been one of the very best Bengal feel good stories of the last couple of years. Plus, as much as I'd like to see the Bengals keep him it's obvious that Kaesviharn is one player that few could blame if he signed a new contract based soley upon it's value. He's earned a sizable pay raise. That said, it sorta feels like K2 has been waiting for the Bengals, giving them every chance to keep him if they're seriously interested, so if it doesn't happen then you have to conclude that they either won't or can't meet his price.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Basically, I would give KK credit for going where he can get the most money, absent some other benefits to make up the difference.

Yeah, its hard to blame Kase for shopping. Kelly at least had one nice FA deal with the bengals a few years ago, and now gets another pile. K2's been from Arena league to NFL backup and now he's hitting 30 and suddenly has his one and only chance for a sizeable score. If anyone deserves an "outrageous" contract, IMHO it's him.

Complete agreement. It's easy to criticize K2 but in my opinion he's been one of the very best Bengal feel good stories of the last couple of years. Plus, as much as I'd like to see the Bengals keep him it's obvious that Kaesviharn is one player that few could blame if he signed a new contract based soley upon it's value. He's earned a sizable pay raise. That said, it sorta feels like K2 has been waiting for the Bengals, giving them every chance to keep him if they're seriously interested, so if it doesn't happen then you have to conclude that they either won't or can't meet his price.

Who could criticize KK? He absolutely saved our ass in 2005. I'd do what I have to do to keep him, period. I don't know why they're not trying harder to bring him back. Who's our top backup safety otherwise? Mitchell? Go find Ohalete again? I still have nightmares of our safety play from 2005 (minus KK), I don't want to go back there.

I mean, what the hell is it going to take to sign him, anyway? Give the guy a real offer.

And I'm with those who don't blame him for chasing the dollars. He didn't get a big fat signing bonus on the rookie contract he never got.

Hey Mikey - sign KK.

[cover2]

KK deserves his pay day! I hope he gets what he can. The guy will be missed if he is not here next year.

A rookie is not going to be able to come in and do the job he does. They call it depth!

[HoosierCat]

Hey Mikey - sign KK.

Y'know, five years ago...he would have. Mikey would have coughed up a $3m bonus and another mil in salary, and kept him on in '08 just so he could make an extra $1.5m. And then he would have offered him a job as assistant DB coach. But those days are gone...and there's something to be mourned about their passing.

[derekshank]

It seems like Cleveland has taken the approach "If you can't beat 'em... sign 'em."

They've got Steinbach from the Bengals, Jamal Lewis from the Ravens, took a hard look at Joey Porter, and are trying to take both S. Smith and and KK? It's so crazy, it just might work - (probably not).

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Sorry to sound like Shula, but KK is a backup at best -- versatile and good to have if he's cheap, but how can you justify pushing even $1 mil. a year his way??

What's this? Someone not overrating a Bengals' bit player?

Next I'll be hearing that Anthony Mitchell isn't the real slim shady.

I don't give a rat's patoot about Shaun Smith, KK, or Justin Smith, or Brian Simmons.

I've seen enough of these clowns.

I'm amazed how many great players some Bengals' fans seem to find on a 28th ranked defense.

Let them go and get some better players in here.

[HoosierCat]

I don't give a rat's patoot about Shaun Smith, KK, or Justin Smith, or Brian Simmons.

Obviously you have never had to deal with rats. From experience, let me assure you a viking longboat beaching on your front lawn is easier to deal with...

On a more apropos note, quantity has a quality all its own. You can indeed be pecked to death by ducks. Bengals aren't getting knocked out but they are taking a lot of punches. I'd like to say it's time to land a blow of their own...but the target list is mighty slim.

[Stripes]

What's this? Someone not overrating a Bengals' bit player?

Well he pretty much said what many other people have been saying: KK is a good player to have for depth, but we shouldn't overspend to keep him in the fold.

Next I'll be hearing that Anthony Mitchell isn't the real slim shady.

Oh yeah, we hear people pimping him hard every day here.

I'm amazed how many great players some Bengals' fans seem to find on a 28th ranked defense.

Great players? No.

Young players whom have showed a "great" deal of promise? Certainly.

[Dawg BpG]

No offense but I see thi guy on more highlight reals, than Daylon Mcutchen.

I hope we DO sign Smith and leave Kae alone.

[derekshank]

On a more apropos note, quantity has a quality all its own. You can indeed be pecked to death by ducks. Bengals aren't getting knocked out but they are taking a lot of punches. I'd like to say it's time to land a blow of their own...but the target list is mighty slim.

For the first time since Free Agency started I find myself agreeing with Hoosier (Maybe I'm just in a good mood). Losing Tony Stewart, Kelley Washington, and Anthony Mitchell are certainly not death blows. Parting ways with guys like Brian Simmons and Tory James is probably a step in the right direction, and having KK and S. Smith head to browner pastures isn't ending a Bengal dynasty.

The problem here is not that any one of these guys is killing us. It is that they were all role players, and they will probably be replaced with lesser versions of themselves. We probably don't lose anything replacing Mitchell with Frazier, and what little we lose replacing Tony Stewart with a PS guy will be negligible... but even though I'm a Kilmer fan, I don't know if he can handle KK's role just yet, Ratliff is no upgrade over Tory James, and we only have 3 DT's on the roster if S. Smith heads out.

The point is... maybe most of these guys will be replacable with day 2 draft picks... but that is using our entire draft to replace role players. Signing a role player or two of our own in FA might not be a bad idea. (that said... we still have plenty of time to do that, and I'm just fine with it if they wait until after the draft to pull the trigger on a single signing).

[Kirkendall]

There's something I don't want to see happen. Hopefully this transpires in similar fashion to the Kelly deal.

Who's our leader on defense who's going to talk him into it like Carson did Kelly?

Brian Sim........ oh.

Great players? No.

Young players whom have showed a "great" deal of promise? Certainly.

Here's the thing about Kaesviharn with me. If we were to chat about him, say, two years ago, I would have just shrugged my shoulders. In a matter of 16 days (games), he has six picks and four interceptions and is the leader of weak market of safeties that will likely take the Bengals out of the running.

Before the season, I would have shrugged if we lost KK. I'm still shrugging. I think Shula makes a point (good or bad, you decide) in that we tend to over-rate players... especially those that have been with the team for a long time.

Personal opinion: the only concern losing KK would be at our depth.

[aaronburr]

How many teams has KK visited? How many would you visit if you had any intention of giving a hometown discount?

KK's gone. Doesn't matter what team.

[SkinneymulleT]

How many teams has KK visited? How many would you visit if you had any intention of giving a hometown discount?

KK's gone. Doesn't matter what team.

Must say if I had to make into the NFL via Arena, XFL and sub teaching there would be no discounts. Make as much as I could. He is gone.

[HoosierCat]

Here's the thing about Kaesviharn with me. If we were to chat about him, say, two years ago, I would have just shrugged my shoulders.

Which would have been a strong indication you weren't paying attention. K2 was a key contributor in '05 and built on that performance in '06. Depth? He's started 23 games in the last two years, so I would say DB depth around here isn't something to be lightly dismissed. Now what do we do when Deltha suffers his annual high ankle sprain, or Dexter misses his usual 4-5 games? Keiwan? Kilmer?

With James already gone, I would say the loss of K2 pretty much locks the Bengals into DB in round one, too. Which doesn't help either; FA is supposed to allow you to free up options in the draft, not limit them. No, losing K2 wouldn't be a calamity -- but make no mistake, it would hurt.

[derekshank]

Here's the thing about Kaesviharn with me. If we were to chat about him, say, two years ago, I would have just shrugged my shoulders.

Which would have been a strong indication you weren't paying attention. K2 was a key contributor in '05 and built on that performance in '06. Depth? He's started 23 games in the last two years, so I would say DB depth around here isn't something to be lightly dismissed. Now what do we do when Deltha suffers his annual high ankle sprain, or Dexter misses his usual 4-5 games? Keiwan? Kilmer?

With James already gone, I would say the loss of K2 pretty much locks the Bengals into DB in round one, too. Which doesn't help either; FA is supposed to allow you to free up options in the draft, not limit them. No, losing K2 wouldn't be a calamity -- but make no mistake, it would hurt.

Not saying I disagree with everything you said... but I don't think that losing KK forces us into a 1st round DB selection. For example... last year a guy like Lance Schulters wasn't signed until mid-season. There will certainly be adequate KK replacements in FA after the draft.

[HoosierCat]

Not saying I disagree with everything you said... but I don't think that losing KK forces us into a 1st round DB selection. For example... last year a guy like Lance Schulters wasn't signed until mid-season. There will certainly be adequate KK replacements in FA after the draft.

K2 heading out would just be the final straw. With James gone, O'Neal a question mark and Dexter an annual injury issue, a Kaes loss is telling. At least at LB you have what on paper looks like an adequate starting lineup in Jeanty, Brooks and Landon, with Caleb able to back all three spots -- and still some hope that we get Pollack and/or Thurman back. I think in that case you have to address DB.

[Kirkendall]

Here's the thing about Kaesviharn with me. If we were to chat about him, say, two years ago, I would have just shrugged my shoulders.

Which would have been a strong indication you weren't paying attention. K2 was a key contributor in '05 and built on that performance in '06. Depth? He's started 23 games in the last two years, so I would say DB depth around here isn't something to be lightly dismissed. Now what do we do when Deltha suffers his annual high ankle sprain, or Dexter misses his usual 4-5 games? Keiwan? Kilmer?

With James already gone, I would say the loss of K2 pretty much locks the Bengals into DB in round one, too. Which doesn't help either; FA is supposed to allow you to free up options in the draft, not limit them. No, losing K2 wouldn't be a calamity -- but make no mistake, it would hurt.

Yea, usually when the games come on, I tend to watch infomercials with Billy Mays. But if we lose KK, how much further back does our defense go? From 30th to 32nd? Does our pass defense go from 31st to 32nd? I'm not saying losing/keeping KK will be indicative to our success/failure in 2007. But he's hardly someone to get worked up over if we lose him. And does signing KK hurt our chances of keeping Williams next season? Again, if we sign him or lose him, either way, I shrug my shoulders.

We're definitely going DB in the first round, with KK or without him. We need a cornerback to compliment JJ.

[HoosierCat]

Yea, usually when the games come on, I tend to watch infomercials with Billy Mays. But if we lose KK, how much further back does our defense go?

How much better does it get? K2 was hardly responsible for our poor pass D last season -- as you yourself pointed out when you cited his career year. So shrugging your shoulders and saying no big deal when one of the few things that actually worked goes away, makes sense?