Ludwig: Okoye Tops Bengals Draft Board

[schweinhart]

Well the Bengals can take the risk out of a 1st round CB by going for either a zone CB or a slot CB in rounds 2 or 4. Or draft Darrelle Revis and get a punt returned to boot. If all they want to do is replace Tory James, then they'll have about as hard of a time of doing that as the Saints will have replacing Fred Thomas. But Deltha probably factors into the draft decision. Who knows what the deal is with him other than he's a 30 year old corner who'se on the downside of his contract. And who knows if they ever get anything out of Greg Brooks but it's hard to imagine a Bengal itchier to get on the field than him.

They got to do something at CB, though. Unless they want to hang their hopes on Keiwan.

[BengalPappaw]

Schwein,

What do you think about Reggie Nelson?

Do you think he might be there at 18?

He appears to me to be a good alternative (S and/or CB) for the Bengals -- but I'm not sure he lasts until 18.

[AGrizzlyBaer]

Schwein,

What do you think about Reggie Nelson?

Do you think he might be there at 18?

He appears to me to be a good alternative (S and/or CB) for the Bengals -- but I'm not sure he lasts until 18.

man after he ran a 4.35 today at his proday... i would love to have him...

[schweinhart]

Schwein,

What do you think about Reggie Nelson?

Do you think he might be there at 18?

He appears to me to be a good alternative (S and/or CB) for the Bengals -- but I'm not sure he lasts until 18.

I'd rather see the Bengals take Reggie Nelson over any of the likely available players at 18 except for maybe Timmons. Most of what I saw watching Nelson play was him as a range rover, which he is great at. He didn't get to show on a level playing field like what Brandon Merriweather did at the Senior Bowl that he can apply man cover skills against top nocth receivers and look adroit at it. The 40 time difference beteen the combine and his Pro Day maybe doesn't change any of that but at least teams now for sure that Reggie can fly on grass.

But I wouldn't be too sure that Reggie gets pigeon-holed as just a deep FS if a team decides he won't be used as in any man coverage capacity. He's definitely a big-time hitter with a decent frame to add to and is much closer rather than farther away from being an interchangeable safety.

[hrod382]

I'm hoping/assuming Nelson or Timmons will be there at 18 and I'd be thrilled with either... They're the sort of playmakers we need.

[NJ29]

Any thoughts on Chad Nkang?

[schweinhart]

Nkang plays like a nut but he's small. He'd be lucky to get drafted as a weakside backer with only a few times probably considering to play there at his size. If he gets looked at by teams as a safety, he'll run into a lot of competition of more proven safeties in Day 2.

[WhoDeyForever]

I would love to have Okoye. He could make our defense so much better just by him. He has great talent. Let's just hope hes there at 18 if we dont trade up.

[NJ29]

Nkang plays like a nut but he's small. He'd be lucky to get drafted as a weakside backer with only a few times probably considering to play there at his size. If he gets looked at by teams as a safety, he'll run into a lot of competition of more proven safeties in Day 2.

That + Speed = Enough for me.

We need some fast, ballsy backers.

[derekshank]

Nkang is listed at 220! We already have a LB corps riddled with undersized guys. Caleb Miller is the lightest MLB in the entire NFL... and Landon Johnson outweighs him by a whopping 3 lbs. Even Jeanty is light for a SSLB.

Being small isn't the worst thing in the world... but it contributed heavily to all the rushing defense woes the Colts had this year. (People are willing to forget how bad they were for most of the season because the offense bailed them out so much).

I'd prefer to have some defenders that are both big AND fast for once. No more of this either/or stuff. Having Ahmad Brooks (259 lbs, 4.6 40) in there, and then maybe a guy like Willis (242 lbs, 4.5 40) would mean we've got a two guys that are the best of both worlds out there.

In my opinion, that's the kind of thing that's going to turn this defense around. If Willis or Timmons are there at 18, I think we've got to grab them. A combination of one of them and Brooks will immediately turn a depleted and weak LB corps into one that RB's would dread. CB can wait until rd 2.

[schweinhart]

Nkang is about like who the Bengals were talking with during the Senior Bowl week last year -- LB/S types like Travis Williams and Jon Alston. But they didn't go that route and instead went for the big backers last year. Who knows what this year will bring though. Big backer, little backer.

Where's all the Tomahawk chop for Timmons, Rover? You can't tell me you wouldn't want to see him turned loose in stripes. I'd much rather see the Bengals draft Timmons than a primarily 1-dimensional big MLB like Willis or overblown busts waiting to happen like Obi One Amobi Okoye, Adam Carriker the Friendly Ghost or Paul Posluszny.

Timmons would make the pass rush for the Bengals out of the nickel and on the strongside. He blows plays up better than any defensive prospect in this draft.

But the Bengals will probably wind up with more of a choice of Jon Beason than Timmons or Willis. Beason is a much more natural 4-3 MLB than Ahmad Brooks.

[derekshank]

Nkang is about like who the Bengals were talking with during the Senior Bowl week last year -- LB/S types like Travis Williams and Jon Alston. But they didn't go that route and instead went for the big backers last year. Who knows what this year will bring though. Big backer, little backer.

Where's all the Tomahawk chop for Timmons, Rover? You can't tell me you wouldn't want to see him turned loose in stripes. I'd much rather see the Bengals draft Timmons than a primarily 1-dimensional big MLB like Willis or overblown busts waiting to happen like Obi One Amobi Okoye, Adam Carriker the Friendly Ghost or Paul Posluszny.

Timmons would make the pass rush for the Bengals out of the nickel and on the strongside. He blows plays up better than any defensive prospect in this draft.

But the Bengals will probably wind up with more of a choice of Jon Beason than Timmons or Willis. Beason is a much more natural 4-3 MLB than Ahmad Brooks.

I liked Chad Nkang better the first time we drafted him, when his name was Caleb Miller. Both are in the low 220 lbs, and run a 4.6ish 40 time.

Anyway... I'm all for Timmons. I'd be more than happy with him over Willis if that is the route the Bengals go. (Timmons is the more natural OLB anyway). Frankly, I don't think having Caleb Miller as our MLB is the worst thing that could happen. Miller is smart, fast, and a good tackler. He played very well there for us this past year when injuries forced him there. As long as Brooks and Timmons were on either side of him, it wouldn't be a bad LB corps at all.

schweinhart - Since you seem to be the resident draft expert: Is Timmons suited to play Weak Side? In my opinon that is our biggest area of need. His abilty to play WSLB is probably the only way he'll end up in stripes. I would defintely prefer Timmons over Beason. Timmons has tons of potential... but I know he played SSLB in college, and we've got that covered between Jeanty, Brooks, and the possibility of Pollack returning.

[NJ29]

I love Timmons, especially after watching how he dominated almost every game he played in, both getting after the quarterback and stopping the run.

My only question is, who plays weakside linebacker if we can't resign Landon?

[schweinhart]

Chad Nkang of course

Timmons probably could swing weakside but why take him away from what he does best? He's probably better suited to play the middle in a 4-3 than weak if he's not playing strong.

I'd guess a 3-4 team will want him the most, especially the Pats with both OLBs mostly up rather than down but the Steelers would have to put Timmons up on their board if only to have more threat at the point than Clark Haggans.

He's a tackle for loss machine and add to it his teams play and that boils down to game changer. He's a dominant player at what he does.

The Bengals definitely got a weakside pickle if Landon don't return. So far so good on the front but he'll probably get an offer sheet before much longer. Them maybe they're looking at Earl Everett, Quincy Black, Paul Poz or Justin Durant, but I'd rather see that pick come in the 2nd. And for the speed it takes to play that position well, I'd like to see them take Quincy Black.

I'd agree with Shank about Caleb Miller in the middle. He worked out well there last year. Better than Brooks who seems dicy at best that he'll cut it as a MLB.

[Kazkal]

Schwein what about if Odell returns? Guess would be h im MLB so if we did take timmons would WLB be the only option or think brooks could swing it? somehow doubt hes suited for it :/

[schweinhart]

The Bengals could do worse than Rashad Jeanty playing strong but IMO they could do a whole helluva lot better. Brooks is suited for that position. He's best suited to be what Pollack was and he was a 3-4 backer in college who did play down at times in passing situations. Short of that, a backer like Timmons who can get into the backfield vs. run and blitz the QB would help the defense to get better pressure than they've got. The position is not likely to warrant a high pick but Timmons plays it well enough to get considered high for it.

I'd like to see a Bengals LB who blitzed well enough to force teams to scheme against w/o sacfricing pass defense. Get another corner capable of playing man to go with a DE like Jumpy who can drop into short area coverage and it better sets up a blitzing backer. But they got to have the knack for it. So far Jeanty looks like just a run defender who has to come out in the nickel. I'd like to see Timmons as a nickel backer because as it stands right now, the other team's QB doesn't have to worry at all about a Bengals LB blitzing. It's schemed that way but wouldn't have to be if they had a blitz threat other than Dexter Jackson off the edge.

[NJ29]

Chad Nkang of course

Timmons probably could swing weakside but why take him away from what he does best? He's probably better suited to play the middle in a 4-3 than weak if he's not playing strong.

I'd guess a 3-4 team will want him the most, especially the Pats with both OLBs mostly up rather than down but the Steelers would have to put Timmons up on their board if only to have more threat at the point than Clark Haggans.

He's a tackle for loss machine and add to it his teams play and that boils down to game changer. He's a dominant player at what he does.

The Bengals definitely got a weakside pickle if Landon don't return. So far so good on the front but he'll probably get an offer sheet before much longer. Them maybe they're looking at Earl Everett, Quincy Black, Paul Poz or Justin Durant, but I'd rather see that pick come in the 2nd. And for the speed it takes to play that position well, I'd like to see them take Quincy Black.

I'd agree with Shank about Caleb Miller in the middle. He worked out well there last year. Better than Brooks who seems dicy at best that he'll cut it as a MLB.

I would love a Timmons - Everett / Black combo in the opening rounds, but I don't know if they're ready to pencil in two rookies as opening day starters.

[derekshank]

Schwein what about if Odell returns? Guess would be h im MLB so if we did take timmons would WLB be the only option or think brooks could swing it? somehow doubt hes suited for it :/

I really can't see Odell coming back... but if he does, that's all the more reason that we are not likely to take Timmons. We've got Jeanty and Brooks suited to play SSLB. Caleb Miller and Odell Thurman (also Brooks) to play MLB, but only Landon Johnson as a true WSLB. I think he's the weakest LB of the 5 listed, and is best suited to be depth, not a starter.

I think we need to go into this draft looking WSLB. If Timmons isn't the guy to do that, then we should take a DB or DT (BPA) in round 1, and get a WSLB in round 2... but that's just my opinion.

I know schwein isn't a Posluszny fan... but if he would drop to us in rd. 2, I'd wet myself with glee (I'd have to get a new computer chair for work). His intangibles and instinctive play more than makeup for what he lacks physically... besides, he wasn't fully recovered from injury last year. Look at his '05 season as a more accurate guide to what you'd be getting. I'd also be pretty damn pumped if Beason were there in round 2.

schwein... what do you think of Rufus Alexander at WSLB? You mentioned Everett, Black, Poz and Durant. Wondering if there was a reason you left Alexander out?

[Kazkal]

Don't think many people think you can complain about paulpos in rnd 2.....

Most people just don't want him at 18...

[Stripes]

Earlier in the offseason, I was as critical of Posluszny as anyone... but I thought he proved at the combine that he is at least athletic enough to warrant his first round projections. I think he'll be able to make a positive contribution to whichever team makes the pick (late first round I expect). He doesn't really fit the bill for the Bengals though. We need a weakside-capable player, and in the first round I think the good options are limited to Timmons and Willis.

[Kazkal]

Aye,I woulden't mind him as one players look at if we trade down.

[schweinhart]

schwein... what do you think of Rufus Alexander at WSLB? You mentioned Everett, Black, Poz and Durant. Wondering if there was a reason you left Alexander out?

Alexander would also be in that group. But he'd be more aligned with Everett in the respect of how stout will they be at the point of attack and will the straight-line speed be a liability in trail coverage. Of those 2, Everett is the purer WSLB IMO. He's a natural one with the best zone coverage skills of any of the LBs in the draft. But he's got a couple of problems to deal with: 1. the straight speed 2. aggression.

Everett gets a rap for not being physical enough -- Mike Singletary told him during Senior Bowl practice that he had the feet but he's got to play more physical. Anyone who saw Everett sack Troy Smith w/o his helmet won't doubt that Everett doesn't play physical, but he's had Brandon Siler there in the middle doing the dirtier inside work that Everett didn't have to as much, plus Everett's strength is reading the defense and breaking on plays from space, both pass and run. If the Bengals want to get the best zone cover WSLB in the draft for all the deep drops and bracket coverage then they should get Everett in the 2nd. But if they want a WSLB who can provide man coverage on TEs and even some slot WRs, then a faster WSLB like Quincy Black is better suited.

The WSLB situation is much like the Cb situation. Do they want to stay with primarily zone coverages that will limit the pressure the Bengals can get on the QB or do they want to start moving toward more man coverage to free up blitzers. I've had my fill of watching the Bengals secondary get chewed apart with too much soft coverage. Time to man up and picks like Chris Houston and Quincy Black make that possible.

[hrod382]

Time to man up and picks like Chris Houston and Quincy Black make that possible.

I agree with that completely. The Indy game just made me sick because of that terrible zone that didn't have any effect.

I know Marvin isn't much for sending blitzers but after the past few years he has to reach a point where he has to give in. It seemed like DJax got sent a few times last year and Ahmad when he started but other than that there was little blitz and it's not like we have the Bears front 4.

[WretchedOne]

Time to man up and picks like Chris Houston and Quincy Black make that possible.

I agree with that completely. The Indy game just made me sick because of that terrible zone that didn't have any effect.

That zone would have been drastically helped by some defenders who could actually tackle.

The zone wasn't the problem, tackling was.

Tackling was the biggest problem in 06. Not the injuries, not the suspensions.

Tackling.

(Bad Tackling led to 3rd down problems and the Dline needs to be upgraded big time, especially the DT spot. Fix those 2 things and this D is alright.)

[HoosierCat]

Time to man up and picks like Chris Houston and Quincy Black make that possible.

I agree with that completely. The Indy game just made me sick because of that terrible zone that didn't have any effect.

That zone would have been drastically helped by some defenders who could actually tackle.

The zone wasn't the problem, tackling was.

Partially. Half those tackles wouldn't have needed to be made in the first place if our d-line had been able to put any kind of consistent pressure on the QB. I don't care how many Pro Bowlers you've got in the secondary or how well they wrap guys up, if the opposing QB has enough time to cook a Thanksgiving turkey every play, bad stuff is gonna happen.

(Bad Tackling led to 3rd down problems and the Dline needs to be upgraded big time, especially the DT spot. Fix those 2 things and this D is alright.)

Yup. Tho I think that if you fix the d-line you'll find that the tackling issues go way down. Which, to get back to the original post, is why I find Okoye compelling.