Stop all the bitching bout the D and FA's

[djdannos]

Look, I have been a Bengals fan for 25 year over 7 states and am much happier today than I was in the 1990's. Look what Marvin has brought us, three seasons of hope and had it not been for the arrests and injuries and a few calls or plays, we go 11-5 or 12-4 with all that last season. That is how the NFL goes, you need to have few injuries, not much personnel issues and a few balls bounce your way as it all did in 2005 until Palmers leg got jacked...They can do it all again in 2007.

As for the Defense, let Marvin do his thing...some players have not panned out, some have screwed themselves, some have been injured...I think the bottom line is that Marvin will put a very compititive team on the field and will add in the draft and prob a FA or 2. Who would have thought, Chad would be a top 3 receiver on draft day, and that Housh and Rudi would contribute as much as they are...so we need to be hopefull that we will pick up the right 2-3 defensive players and let the offense do its thing and put a solid enough D out there to keep games close which is what we have done for 3 years...You have ot admit even though we lost the SD game 49-41 is a fun game to watch vs. 9-6 games with the Bears...

Losing guys ot FA is the nature of the game and it happens to the better teams or the one or two players on a bad team..personally I thin the 50 mill for guards is ridiculous, 60 mill for Thomas is too much and 80 mill corner, he is not rela good but not that great (I know most deals are 3-4 yrs but they still are much bigger than the 30-40 mill deals a year or two ago). So I say Cincy should stay its course and all will work out.

Here is to a 11-5 or 12-4 - 2007 season

[Kazkal]

SHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh this is a bengals forum no postive thinking!

[Spor_tees]

Marvin has given Cincy one winning season in 4 years...how long does he need to "do his thing?" One of your largest arguments is the arrests and "personal" issues. Well Marvin has to be held accountable for those also. He was in fact one of the people who pulled the trigger, so to speak, to bring those guys in. Checking into a players personality and history is part of evaluating talent, and so far I would have to give Marvin a failing grade. You can go out and point to guys that have succeeded, but don't use Carson Palmer in that argument. Carson was a no-brainer. The second round pick of that draft, Steinbeck is no longer a Bengal, so you can't use him either. So tell me who the best draft pick is that Marvin drafted?

[Kazkal]

One day Spor Tees was walking in the woods when --

KERPLUNK -- an acorn fell on her head "Oh my goodness!"

said Spor Tees. "The sky is falling! I must go and tell the

Mikey."

On her way to the Mikey's palace, Spor Tees met BTG.

BTG said that she was going into the woods to hunt for

worms.

"Oh no, don't go!" said Spor Tees. "I was there and the sky

fell on my head! Come with me to tell the king."

So BTG joined Spor Tees and they went along and

went along as fast as they could.

Soon they met ShulaSteakhouse who said, "I'm going to the woods

to hunt for seeds."

"Oh no, don't go!" said BTG. "The sky is falling there!

Come with us to tell the Mikey."

So Cocky ShulaSteakhouse,BTG and Spor Tees and they

went along and went along as fast as they could.

Soon they met Whur CHad At?, who was planning to go to the

woods to look for berries.

"Oh no, don't go!" said ShulaSteakhouse. "The sky is falling there!

Come with us to tell the king." So Whur Chad at? joined

ShulaSteakhouse, BTG and Spor Tees, and they

went along as fast as they could.

Then who should appear on the path but sly old Haironfire.

"Where are you going, my fine feathered friends?" asked Haironfire.

He spoke in a polite manner, so as not to frighten them.

"The sky is falling!" cried Spor Tees. "We must tell the

Mikey."

"I know a shortcut to the palace," said Haironfire sweetly.

"Come and follow me."

But wicked Haironfire did not lead the others to the palace.

He led them right up to the entrance of his foxhole. Once they

were inside, Haironfire was planning to gobble them up!

Just as Spor Tees and the others were about to go into the

fox's hole, they heard a strange sound and stopped.

It was the king's hunting dogs, growling and howling.

How Haironfire ran, across the meadows and through the forests,

with the hounds close behind. He ran until he was far, far away

and never dared to come back again.

After that day, Spor Tees always carried an umbrella with

her when she walked in the woods. The umbrella was a present

from the king. And if -- KERPLUNK -- an acorn fell, Spor tees

didn't mind a bit. In fact, she didn't notice it at all.

[djdannos]

You cannot eliminate Steinbach because were not willing to pay 50 million, And plenty of QB's do not pan out especially to the level Palmer has played (Top 5)...

Let see Whitworth, Madieu, Landon, Geathers, Joseph, Jeremi J, Henry, Ghiracic, Brooks all starters in 2007, jury is out on Faneane but Peko looks like he will pan out as well as Andrews and Thurman will be back. Miller will provide depth as does Jeanty. not too bad, many teams have done much worse, some better.

I think the one thing everyone would like to have is a stud at DE or DT which we do not and have not gotten in the draft..Possibly was Pollack, prob never know...

Let see its Marvins fault Weathersby got in a car wreck, Perry had a hernia and broken leg, Pollack broke his neck, Tab and Kieft both got injured (not that all would be stars but depth is huge in NFL and every injury means you need to fill a spot with someone likely of less talent). and face it injuries piled up...

Yes the guys who had shady past are on him and I think he was willing to take talent over personnel issues for the hope that he could straighten them out, but I guess it did not work and he is seeing the light and will draft accordingly in the future...

[Whur CHad At?]

Nice Kaz you peice of s**t o_0

[Spor_tees]

You cannot eliminate Steinbach because were not willing to pay 50 million, And plenty of QB's do not pan out especially to the level Palmer has played (Top 5)...

Let see Whitworth, Madieu, Landon, Geathers, Joseph, Jeremi J, Henry, Ghiracic, Brooks all starters in 2007, jury is out on Faneane but Peko looks like he will pan out as well as Andrews and Thurman will be back. Miller will provide depth as does Jeanty. not too bad, many teams have done much worse, some better.

I think the one thing everyone would like to have is a stud at DE or DT which we do not and have not gotten in the draft..Possibly was Pollack, prob never know...

Let see its Marvins fault Weathersby got in a car wreck, Perry had a hernia and broken leg, Pollack broke his neck, Tab and Kieft both got injured (not that all would be stars but depth is huge in NFL and every injury means you need to fill a spot with someone likely of less talent). and face it injuries piled up...

Yes the guys who had shady past are on him and I think he was willing to take talent over personnel issues for the hope that he could straighten them out, but I guess it did not work and he is seeing the light and will draft accordingly in the future...

Let me go through your list...Whitworth has played all of one year...jury is still out. Madieu slipped backwards last year when much more was expected of him. Geathers has had all of one double digit sack season and cashed in, question is, with getting paid will he continue to play hard? Joseph has played one year where he had 0 Int's and one arrest. Jeremi has played well but he is a FB and not exactly an impact player. Henry? Do I need to even touch that one? Ghiacic is still untested and has yet to start a full year. Brooks didn't even see the field for many games because coaches said he was unwilling to play special teams. Brooks has a shady past and the jury is still out on whether he will pan out. The reason you can't give Marvin credit for Palmer is, no matter who the coach was of the Bengals, they would have made that same pick, whether he became a top QB or not.

[volcom69]

Heres what i dont like, we have no leader on this defense so they decide to get rid of the only so called leader on the defense and they have yet to figure out what they are going to do. Now theres a chance we loose kevin and Kelly to the cardnials. So is Marvin gonna really pay top dollar for these guys to return to the team or will he let them walk. If they walk then Marvin better start spending the money for some players cause i dont think this team is going to be any better with what we have and some draft picks i think it might be alittle worse then last year.

[BTG]

"Freedom of speech is the concept of the inherent human right to voice one's opinion publicly without fear of censorship or punishment. The right is enshrined in the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights and is granted formal recognition by the laws of most nations."

"The principle of freedom of speech promotes dialogues on public issues, but it is most relevant to speech which is unpopular at the time it is made."

"The ability of human beings to think at a high level is what defines and separates man from other animals. Thinking is what makes human beings human. To deny persons freedom of thought is to deny them their humanity and their potential."

The point is, stop complaining about people complaining. If you don't want to read people posting their thoughts about free agency, then don't click on the thread.

[Stripes]

Djdannos, I agree with everything you've said except what's in the thread title.

Kazkal, that's funny as hell (no offense to the characters he included).

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Look, I have been a Bengals fan for 25 year over 7 states and am much happier today than I was in the 1990's.

This drives me nuts. High standards you must have.

Nice thread - whining about whiners. Most annoying internet forum habit there is I think.

I want to win. Period. A Superbowl preferably, before I freakin' die of old age.

Sue me if i'm not always happy and chummy with .500 records and "hope for next year."

[Stripes]

Look, I have been a Bengals fan for 25 year over 7 states and am much happier today than I was in the 1990's.

This drives me nuts. High standards you must have.

He never said he is satisfied with 8-8. No Bengals fans are satisfied with 8-8. Okay? Just take that sentence to heart, beacause it drives me nuts to see anyone accused of such a thing.

What we're happy about is the talent present on this team as compared to what was there in the '90s, or even in the other 8-8s with Marvin. This isn't the same freaking team at all, and potential matters regardless of all the Grinches around here that prefer to remain skeptical.

[BTG]

No offense, TDB, but that's a short-sighted argument. Just because the talent is better doesn't mean it is good enough to win a Super Bowl, and it certainly doesn't mean the team and front office should be immune from criticism from the fan base, either.

Think about it like this: Jeff Blake was a better quarterback than David Klingler, but that doesn't mean people were happy with him as the starter, right? Yet by the rationale some people have, to complain about Jeff Blake would have been stupid, simply because he was better than David Klingler. Needless to say, that's ridiculous.

Pardon me if I want to see the team I've followed since I was seven (I am now 28) actually make a move or two that could change them from a very good team to an elite one. I know that's silly of me.

[Stripes]

Just because the talent is better doesn't make it good enough to win a Super Bowl ... or even get there, for that matter. I mean, Jeff Blake was a better quarterback than David Klingler, but that doesn't mean people were happy with him as the starter.

I refuse to complain about a football team for no reason other than "they're not good enough to play in the Superbowl." Frankly, I agree with that statement. The statement I find pleasing is, "The Bengals are capable of winning the division and making a playoff run, and they should continue improving."

The current strategy being employed by Marvin and Mikey has amounted to a division championship. I think it's absurd to blame the ensuing 8-8 season on how they've handled free agency.

I mean, by the rationale some people have, to complain about Jeff Blake would have been stupid, simply because he was better than David Klingler. Needless to say, that's ridiculous.

You're right, it is rediculous. Hence, it isn't really anyone's rationale at all. Nobody is telling you to be happy simply because the Bengals are "better than suck." They're telling you to be happy because the Bengals are "good" and will have every chance to prove it to you if 2005 wasn't convincing enough.

I can understand if you don't appreciate being told how to think, and I'll do no such thing. Still, the above notion is everyone's true rationale.

Pardon me if I want to see the team I've followed since I was seven (I am now 28) actually make a move or two that could change them from a very good team to an elite one. I know that's silly of me.

You have every right to make that demand if you really think it's the best means of improving the football team. Naturally, you'll encounter people that disagree.

[James_Brooks21]

Look, I have been a Bengals fan for 25 year over 7 states and am much happier today than I was in the 1990's.

This drives me nuts. High standards you must have.

Nice thread - whining about whiners. Most annoying internet forum habit there is I think.

I want to win. Period. A Superbowl preferably, before I freakin' die of old age.

Sue me if i'm not always happy and chummy with .500 records and "hope for next year."

I agree totally with you , how is watching the Bengals up 28-7 and losing 49-41 a fun game to watch? I call it embarrasing myself. I would take that 9-6 Bears game before that game any day that means our defense actually showed up that day. Fans of only losing teams ala Houston Texans would think that watching there team lose being up that much was fun to watch that's a loser mentality. I should party about that we are better then we were in the 90's but we still are underacheivers. Who cares how many catching yard titles Chad has or whatever I want to be in the playoffs, what solace do Bengals fan take in him winning catching titles that's a lot to brag about to other fans (sarcstic). We did not make the playoffs but Chad led the AFC in yards for a widereicever that's garbage. Take that mediocre mentality up North to be a Cleveland fan.

[HairOnFire]

It was the king's hunting dogs, growling and howling.

How Haironfire ran, across the meadows and through the forests,

with the hounds close behind. He ran until he was far, far away

and never dared to come back again.

Just for the record, I do not run from hounds. They run from me, for it is well known within the King's land that wicked HairOnFire is so tough that even his mighty penis has teeth.

And it's rumored to be so long that the Queen claims it has an elbow.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Look, I have been a Bengals fan for 25 year over 7 states and am much happier today than I was in the 1990's.

This drives me nuts. High standards you must have.

Nice thread - whining about whiners. Most annoying internet forum habit there is I think.

I want to win. Period. A Superbowl preferably, before I freakin' die of old age.

Sue me if i'm not always happy and chummy with .500 records and "hope for next year."

this about brought me to tears

A thread about how people whining about whiners is the most annoying habit there is , yet isnt this thread just another thread whining about the whiners whining about the whining Oach my my guts are about to rip apart. Very funny stuff.

[BTG]

I refuse to complain about a football team for no reason other than "they're not good enough to play in the Superbowl." Frankly, I agree with that statement. The statement I find pleasing is, "The Bengals are capable of winning the division and making a playoff run, and they should continue improving."

Yet their defense continues to get worse, and the players they have have not proven that they can do anything to improve. So we're left with three options to get the team to the next level: build through the draft, build through free agency, or build through both. I am a big supporter of the latter, but I am not a fan of overpaying role players and ignoring the top free agents on the market.

You're right, it is rediculous. Hence, it isn't really anyone's rationale at all. Nobody is telling you to be happy simply because the Bengals are "better than suck." They're telling you to be happy because the Bengals are "good" and will have every chance to prove it to you if 2005 wasn't convincing enough.

It might not be YOUR rationale, but some people definitely seem to feel that way. Hence all the "quit complaining about the Bengals not signing players" nonsense.

Also, wasn't Jeff Blake considered "good" at one point as well by fans who were so jaded from the likes of Klingler? Um, yes he was. Remember the "Shake and Blake" nonsense?

The point is, the Bengals are 35 and 29 over the past four years. It's better than what it was, but it's still not great. And again, the defense has been terrible and showed little signs of improvement. Remember the old saying, "Defense wins championships"? It's valid.

You have every right to make that demand if you really think it's the best means of improving the footballteam. Naturally, you'll encounter people that disagree.

Naturally, but the difference is I won't be the one telling the people who disagree with me to shut up and get over it. (Not that you're doing that, but obviously some people are.)

[Spor_tees]

Didn't Jeff Blake make a Pro-Bowl with the Bengals?

[BTG]

Yea, that was his 11-5 season.

[Spor_tees]

So, who on this forum is Hobson? I swear some guys on here make points that Hobson brings up later in his articles on the Bengals.com site. In fact, his most recent article reiterates the Bengal's cap perils. He did finally thow out there the possibility of Thorton being cut or restructuring his contract. It also mentions something about Palmer's contract, but I am not sure if he is hinting at Palmer pulling a Peyton Manning or not. However of the posters here that is Hobson can clarify that point for me.

[Whur CHad At?]

So, who on this forum is Hobson? I swear some guys on here make points that Hobson brings up later in his articles on the Bengals.com site. In fact, his most recent article reiterates the Bengal's cap perils. He did finally thow out there the possibility of Thorton being cut or restructuring his contract. It also mentions something about Palmer's contract, but I am not sure if he is hinting at Palmer pulling a Peyton Manning or not. However of the posters here that is Hobson can clarify that point for me.

I would say TBD is Hobson, although it could be Kazkal. But there arent any a million smiley faces in his articles so I guess it cant be Kaz

[Stripes]

Yet their defense continues to get worse, and the players they have have not proven that they can do anything to improve. So we're left with three options to get the team to the next level: build through the draft, build through free agency, or build through both. I am a big supporter of the latter, but I am not a fan of overpaying role players and ignoring the top free agents on the market.

The defense has improved in scoring every single season under Marvin, 2006 included. The defense is doing anything but getting worse. In 2003 and 2004, the defense was outright bad, and consistently bad. In 2005, they gave up too much yardage but were able to set a team record with 44 takeaways. In 2006, with plenty injuries, the Bengals gave up 20 points per game (middle of the pack) and were able to put together multiple excellent games. In any of the previous three seasons, we'd have never been able to count on seeing the performances from the defense alike those in the games against Carolina, Tampa Bay, Cleveland, Baltimore, or even New Orleans.

Granted, for every solid game the defense played, they played a horrible one too. Isn't inconsistency the mark of a young team?

It might not be YOUR rationale, but some people definitely seem to feel that way. Hence all the "quit complaining about the Bengals not signing players" nonsense.

I haven't heard of any Bengals fans being happy with mediocrity since 2003 when it was something new. Some people may have the wrong approach when they present their arguments to you, but they're by no means satisfied.

Also, wasn't Jeff Blake considered "good" at one point as well by fans who were so jaded from the likes of Klingler? Um, yes he was. Remember the "Shake and Blake" nonsense?

Different time, different circumstances. When the entire team sucked, of course fans rallied behind a guy like Jeff Blake. That doesn't hold true anymore.

The point is, the Bengals are 35 and 29 over the past four years. It's better than what it was, but it's still not great. And again, the defense has been terrible and showed little signs of improvement. Remember the old saying, "Defense wins championships"? It's valid.

No doubt. One must ask why each season proceeded as it did. Can any of the three 8-8s legitimately be blamed on the Bengals' free agency strategies? I really don't think so at all.

Naturally, but the difference is I won't be the one telling the people who disagree with me to shut up and get over it. (Not that you're doing that, but obviously some people are.)

Won't argue there. The entire point of a message board is to voice opinion.

So, who on this forum is Hobson? I swear some guys on here make points that Hobson brings up later in his articles on the Bengals.com site. In fact, his most recent article reiterates the Bengal's cap perils. He did finally thow out there the possibility of Thorton being cut or restructuring his contract. It also mentions something about Palmer's contract, but I am not sure if he is hinting at Palmer pulling a Peyton Manning or not. However of the posters here that is Hobson can clarify that point for me.

Yes, Geoff Hobson... Mikey's personal Igor.

The man does his job well. I'm not him though.

[HairOnFire]

I'm Hobson.

And to prove it just check Bengals.com later today. Yup, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to find that Hobson has written a joke about his penis having teeth.

[Kazkal]

What Killer FA have the Steelers ever signed? you think we have boring FA period....