Bengalszone 2 Round Mock Draft

[BZBot]

With the Senior Bowl in the books, all eyes will soon shift to the NFL Scouting Combine, where teams will drill, measure and test players to see who they like best. A couple players the Cincinnati Bengals staff should be eyeing to improve their defense are CB Chris Houston and Quentin Moses.

Source: http://www.bengalszone.com/article.php?sid=521

[Kazkal]

I'd be happy with the bengal picks...

[Whur CHad At?]

I want Willis

[BengalPappaw]

I too would rather have Willis or even Leon Hall (depending on his 40-time).

I am NOT impressed by Chris Houston. In the LSU game, I watched Dwayne Bowe abused him by being physical. In the South Carolina game Sydney Rice had over 130 yards on 7 reception. (I did not watch that game.) In the games I watched of him he did not tackle well -- he tried to cut the runner down and the good runners keep their balance.

IMO in the NFL these are the types of receivers that Houston will face every week and he did NOT hold up well.

I hope that Chris Houston is NOT the Bengals first round choice. Mose in the second round is okay by me.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Interesting Mock Rob - different than many others I've seen, but pretty credible.

Okoye is a mystery, could be a top 10 or fall into the 20's still, as you have him going to Denver at #21.

I wouldn't be opposed to drafting him at all if he fell to #18.

[schweinhart]

I too would rather have Willis or even Leon Hall (depending on his 40-time).

I am NOT impressed by Chris Houston. In the LSU game, I watched Dwayne Bowe abused him by being physical. In the South Carolina game Sydney Rice had over 130 yards on 7 reception. (I did not watch that game.) In the games I watched of him he did not tackle well -- he tried to cut the runner down and the good runners keep their balance.

IMO in the NFL these are the types of receivers that Houston will face every week and he did NOT hold up well.

I hope that Chris Houston is NOT the Bengals first round choice. Mose in the second round is okay by me.

I hear you Pap but I did catch the South Carolina-Arkansas game and was highly impressed with Houston's ability to take on Rice the way he did. The stats sound bad but that game was an all out aerial assault Spurrier style and for the 7 catches that Rice had including a couple great ones, there were alot that he didn't catch and couldn't even get thrown to. SC rolled with Rice in that game bigtime and Houston was there right with him by his lonesome. The one thing it does show is Houston will have some vulnerability like most CBs to taller receivers. Rice isn't exactly a leaper but he's got great timing with the ball in the air and probably the best hands of all the WRs in the draft. Another matchup Houston had with a taller receiver was Robert Meachem. Houston rapped him up pretty good except for about a 25 yard TD where Houston did let him get behind him on a double move.

I saw some clips of the LSU-Arkansas game and did see get Houston left at a standstill once on a quick slant by Bowe. I did look up the stats on that one and only saw Bowe with 5-68. Physical wise, no doubt the kind of physicality Bowe brings presents problems for CBs in man on him or just trying to tackle him or outfight him for the ball.

But I agree that Houston has faced NFL calibers this year and it will be the type he faces. He geared up against 4 probable 1st rounders this year in Bowe, Rice, Meachem and Dwayne Jarrett. Houston has got the ability to keep up wide or slot and after what he saw last year almost week in and out, he should be readier than the competition he has at CB this year in the draft. As a tackler, there's definite room for improvement but I really don't think Leon Hall is a better tackler or cover corner wide or in the slot.

If the Bengals only need to replace Tory James, they'd be fine with J Joseph there. Course they got to hope he won't end up on an arrest spree until then. With O'Neal who knows what the Bengals are thinking but they obviously didn't want him in there as much when it counted the most at the end of last season. Slot wise the Bengals can not use Keiwan there...he's a liability. They have to use Joseph for the most part with Madieu able to do some work there in some situations. Madieu as the weakside corner would definitely work should they want to go that route in the nickel. But if they want to go corner with any kind of slot speed and quickness, I'd say Houston is the better choice than other likely 1st rounders like Revis, Leon and Aaron Ross.

[BengalPappaw]

Schwein

I always respect your insight -- but I've learned to trust my "eyes" (as old as they are) -- too many times in the LSU and other games, Houston got "caught" in the picks on the crossing routes and did NOT have the catch-up speed or motivation(?) to catch-up with the receiver -- so he trailed the receiver and allowed big plays. Also, I was not happy with his run support.

That makes me worry.

I have tapes of Chris Houston against USC, Auburn, LSU, Florida and Wisconsin -- and while he is a good (not great) CB, he, IMO, is not a good number 1 for the Bengals. He reminds me of another Keiwan Ratliff.

So on Chris Houston, we'll probably have to agree to disagree.

I do agree that we (Bengals) need to get a top notch CB or S. I am hoping that LaRon Landry falls to us.

BTW, I'd like to see Ethan Kilmer continue to learn and move into the starting S position-- soon.

Other than CB and S, I like Pat Willis, Lawrence Timmons and Jarvis Moss, but I remain unsure about Okoye, and Reggie Nelson. And, I definitely do NOT like Marcus McCauley.

Ahh, these are the good times -- when we all can have our opinions.

[HoosierCat]

Houston at 18 smacks of a major reach to fill a need -- a strategy that usually brings poor results. While he's better than some give him credit for, IMHO he's late first at best. He'd be a good target if the Bengals were to trade down. But were the draft falling along these lines I'd be hard-pressed to pass on Okoye.

In the second, I'd be very surprised if Moses fell so far. While I like the player, I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate the notion of another DE-to-OLB project. No no no no no no no no! If they want a LB, draft a friggin' LB.

[CJBestInAFC]

I don't think you could pass up Willis if he is available at 18. Second round I like Greg Olsen to play TE. I think the Bengals need a solid TE either in FA or in the draft. You won't believe how much it will help the Bengal's offense. Did everyone see CP light it up in the Probowl? The guy has the best arm in the NFL.

[Kazkal]

Leon Hall (depending on his 40-time).

tory james but young.

Pappa what about all the times Hall was burned this season yet you said you would take him at 18.

"shrugs"

[schweinhart]

I have tapes of Chris Houston against USC, Auburn, LSU, Florida and Wisconsin -- and while he is a good (not great) CB, he, IMO, is not a good number 1 for the Bengals. He reminds me of another Keiwan Ratliff.

OUCH The Bengals definitely don't need another Keiwan. One is more than enough.

I'd say Houston is quicker and faster than Keiwan. But it won't be likely that Houston will be blazing any roads to glory at the combine. I'd guess he'll clock in at about 4.45 and will have to rely on positional drills to showcase his best abilities. The NFL network combine coverage starting Feb. 22 will likely showcase many of the same criticisms about Houston voiced here since Mike Mayock has set his Top 5 CBs as Leon, Aaron Ross, Darrelle Revis, Tanard Jackson and Marcus McCauley. But at the end of the day, the degrees of separation between the 1st round possibles won't be great enough IMO to make the picture any clearer all the way up to the draft. I doubt we see the bigtime speed out of any of them. And watching games of any of them doesn't look like there's an above the boards winner out of the bunch.

As for Houston being a major reach to fill a positional need, Cat, that's probably going to smack true with any of the CBs available and there's a good shot that there won't be one of the board when the Bengals do pick. What looked like a decent 1st round crop has proven to be a littlle mushy and probably more appealing in the 2nd.

As for Okoye. game action smacks of a 2nd round player. Louisville's bowl game was probably the best indicator of the limitations Okoye faces in the NFL. Great pass rusher but his quickness will be his weakness vs. the run in a scheme not suited to take advantage of it and he'll be prone to getting gashed up the middle. Smart, though, and he'll be a persuasive interview. Intriguing enough with his upside and youth to get into the 1st round but there should be some reservation by teams to pull the trigger if they're not prepared to maximize his strength with the right scheme.

I just can't see the Bengals taking another LB like Patrick Willis. They've got one already in Ahmad Brooks and given how the Bengals use their MLB, Willis would probably have to come off the field in the nickel because his coverage is limited. Odell was best suited for the Bengals MLB and if the they want to draft his replacement they'd be better off to take one like Willis' teammate -- Rory Johnson -- in the 2nd. He's got the speed, the quicks and the aggression to fill the void left by Odell in coverage and vs. the run. Even without Odell, the Bengals run defense was fine on the whole, whether they had B-Simms, Caleb Miller or Ahmad in there. A primarily run defending LB can be had into Day 2 and there's not a whole lot of seperation between Willis and David Harris or Buster Davis for a 2nd round pick.

The 2 intriguing #18 possibles for me are Reggie Nelson and Lawrence Timmons. Both will have feast or famine at the combine. Timmons has to prove he's more than just a line player with great aggression against the run and exceptional burst on pass rush off the edge and as a blitzer. The positional drills for him will either open up eyes or shut them for 4-3 teams. Nelson has to prove he's got cover corner skills and man corner speed. No team would draft one in the Top 10 if they don't have both. I'm guessing Nelson runs under 4.4 and shows the kind of fluidity in range as a pass defender in closer quarters that catapulted both Michael Huff and Donte Whitner into the Top 10 last year.

2nd round wise, Quentin Moses should be able to do enough in space to make 3-4 teams covet him as an OLB and 4-3 teams like him for transition to SSLB and part-time edge rusher. But he's got to be way down on the list as a DE now. He just doesn't have the strength to play inside. Manny Lawson looks like he's made the transition to 4-3 SSLB well and I'd expect Moses to actually be better suited to play in space as a LB than Pollack was.

The TE question is bound to come up for the umpteenth consecutive year. Given the weakness of the class, this is probably the year the Bengals take one high. I'd rather see it be Zach Miller than Greg Olsen because Miller can actually block. I'd rather see them wait til the 4th. Ben Patrick could be there and he'd more realistically solve the Bengals TE situation.

[HoosierCat]

As for Houston being a major reach to fill a positional need, Cat, that's probably going to smack true with any of the CBs available and there's a good shot that there won't be one of the board when the Bengals do pick. What looked like a decent 1st round crop has proven to be a littlle mushy and probably more appealing in the 2nd.

Yeah, that's the way it looks to me as well. Again, I'm not saying Houston would be a horrible pick, just a reach. As for Okoye, yeah, the hype machine has definitely taken hold of him, eh? I've always hated the whole "potential" thing, but his ceiling is just so friggin' high it's ridiculous.

Of course, all this seems to assume they keep Justin; if not then you have to add DE into the mix...

[BengalPappaw]

Leon Hall (depending on his 40-time).

tory james but young.

Pappa what about all the times Hall was burned this season yet you said you would take him at 18.

"shrugs"

Kaz,

I didn't see any cornerbacks that didn't get burned this year.

From what I saw, Hall was the "best" of a not-so-good bunch of CBs. So, if we are going to take a CB, I'd take him. I liked Hall's run support --- and I remember one play where he showed great hustle in recovering and chasing down a receiver (not his man) from behind. I am NOT going to pimp for Hall, but I'd take him before I would take several of the other CBs.

I agree with Schwein -- Lawrence Timmons and maybe Reggie Nelson are more interesting candidates.

I do like Pat Willis as an outstanding tackler at LB and a good character guy.

My problem this year is I can't find any player worth "falling on my sword" for.

[BengalPimp]

In the second, I'd be very surprised if Moses fell so far. While I like the player, I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate the notion of another DE-to-OLB project. No no no no no no no no! If they want a LB, draft a friggin' LB.

I agree, Moses has the "smell" of Reinard Wilson all over him. NoNoNo

[Thurmanation]

In the second, I'd be very surprised if Moses fell so far. While I like the player, I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate the notion of another DE-to-OLB project. No no no no no no no no! If they want a LB, draft a friggin' LB.

Yes, please football gods, dont allow the bengals t draft another DE and put him to LB, if anything draft a LB and put him to DE.....PLEASE!

[Spor_tees]

If the Bengals were to take a TE in the 4th, I'd hope it would be Scott Chandler from Iowa. Every time I watched an Iowa game, he made key receptions and was Drew Tate's best friend in a pinch. The guy is 6'7" and would make for a great presence in the red zone. Another guy I think would be worth a late round pick at the TE position would be John Carlson from Notre Dame. It list him as a senior but I have not seen him on any draft sites. He might be one of those fifth year Seniors that might still be at Notre Dame next year like Zbikowski, but if he isn't I think he is worth a 6th or seventh for sure. If the guy hadn't missed a few games this year, he might have been the second leading receiver on the team. He is also tall at 6'6" and 250 lbs.

[membengal]

Just checking, since I was yelled at a month ago on this, but I now note that you have Anderson from ARK much higher. Well done. You are almost there. I think he's going top 10.

[schweinhart]

Just checking, since I was yelled at a month ago on this, but I now note that you have Anderson from ARK much higher. Well done. You are almost there. I think he's going top 10.

Looks like Jamaal moved up 5 spots and Lockdown Leon had some freefall. I'd suspect Jamaal won't go Top 10 even if teams from 13 up don't signs free agents like Justin, Adalius or Charles Grant.

Should be an interesting take on him next week on the NFLN when Mike Mayock breaks down coaches tape on his Top 5 DEs. He's got Jamaal #4 behind Gaines Adams, Jarvis Moss and Adam Carriker.

TE wise Carlson stayed but Chandler would fit with the Bengals. Chances are they re-sign Stewart but maybe not Kelley since he's bound to be making more than he was, which was already high for what he does. Chandler wouldn't be the blocker Ben Patrick could be if Patrick is still there in the 4th.

Quentin does give off the waft of Reinard Wilson but so did Manny Lawson and Kamerion Wimbley. It'd be ideal for the Bengals to have a DE/SSLB who can play every down and produce. Ahmad Brooks should be able to do it but for some reason he didn't get any snaps there. However they approach it, they need to get more pass rush be it more pocket push inside, better blitzers or edge rushers.

[schweinhart]

I'd say Houston is quicker and faster than Keiwan. But it won't be likely that Houston will be blazing any roads to glory at the combine. I'd guess he'll clock in at about 4.45 and will have to rely on positional drills to showcase his best abilities.

Apparently Chris Houston does think he'll be blazing a road to glory at the combine. He looks quicker than faster but a sub 4.3 would settle that score in a lot of teams' minds.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/story/9999517

Speed on the turf in Indianapolis is one fast way to get the attention of all the NFL people in the stands. The other day, fast-rising cornerback Chris Houston from Arkansas told me he has hopes of running a sub 4.3 at the Combine. If he does, his name will be on the tip of every tongue in Indianapolis. If he comes close to a low 4.3, he jumps up a round right away.

Course this is coming from Pat Kirwan.

[walzav29]

Paul Posluszny - This is the best fit. He plays linebacker, is a model citizen, and will be in the right place it the right time. He seems like a perfect fit.

[schweinhart]

Hard not to like the heart Poz plays with but I'd have a hard time believing he'd fit with the Bengals and really a lot of teams because he's not big and physical enough to play MLB and not fast enough to deal with coverage as a WSLB. He might develop better on the strongside for a speed team like the Colts but even then, that's hardly a good choice in the 1st.

Of all the overrated 1st round defensive prospects IMO like Okoye, Carriker and Hughes, Poz would be the least useful for the Bengals.

[membengal]

Don Banks' latest guess at si.com:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...art1/index.html

Of note, he has Anderson going sixth overall and Okoye 11th. Guesses the Bengals for LSU safety Landry at the 18th overall pick.

[schweinhart]

Don Banks' latest guess at si.com:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writ...art1/index.html

Of note, he has Anderson going sixth overall and Okoye 11th. Guesses the Bengals for LSU safety Landry at the 18th overall pick.

Yeah Landry is starting to pop up. Prisco has got him going there too.

http://sportsline.com/nfl/draft/mock

But he doesn't have Jamaal Anderson even going in the 1st round.

Course, he's hardly the paid mocker who provides so many people with their opinions

[Whur CHad At?]

Landry would be nice. I want Willis though pleasse GOD grant me my wish!

Landry though is an upgrade over all of our safeties so it makes sense.

[schweinhart]

Willis would be an infinitely better choice than Poz IMO. There's no question what Willis' strength and it's a dominant strength. If the Bengals could generate more pass rush, Willis' limitations in pass coverage would not be as much. He'll have a hard time with some of the deeper drops on bracket coverage and won't be trailing receivers very well for very long but if the Bengals can afford to shorten his range in coverage -- like they tried with Brooks -- and keep him focused forward, that shortcoming might not prove costly.

I still like his teammate Rory Johnson but it most likely will take a 2nd rounder to get him and LB in either of the 1st 2 rounds still gives me pasue.