Bengals Sign Berryman

[Dan2330]

Business as usual

[BengalPimp]

Marvin likes the Gangsta!

Yeah, but we need Gangsta's ON THE FIELD(namely the Defense), not off the field.

How funny would it be to have the Fox network film an episode of Super Nanny at Bengals training camp next year.

How funny is it that you apparently watch Super Nanny?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

You'll find that Marvin insists the issue had no effect on the performance of this team.

And you'll also find, if you read the same interview, that he says it does, pointing to the combined 4 games missed by Henry and O'Neal due to character issues. (And one might add 16 games missed by Odell as well.) The plain fact is that character does impact the performance of the team, and did so demostrably this season in the form of the three aforementioned players. Heck, if I remember right, you were among those who lamented Henry's absence loudest, to the point of calling Marvin foolish for imposing his own one-game hiatus on him in addition to the league sanction.

Look, I made a joke about it earlier, but let's play it straight this time. Marvin doesn't give a crap about your opinion. Or mine. He's repeatedly said that fans and the media have different standards when judging a players character, and he's not going to let others determine how his team is built.

"Built" being the operative word. What was "built" with Odell? Do we dare risk "building" on Henry? Chad turns 29 in seven days; Housh will hit the big 3-0 next September. Time to make a call. Deltha, if reports are to be believed, is charactering his way out the door, leaving a hole at CB...again. I submit that to date, ignoring the character issue hasn't resulted in the team "building" much of anything. Rather, it's been faced with a perpetual rebuild scenario. And the idea that solving that problem requires taking even more character risks is one I find highly suspect.

Do they not trust their scouts enough to find good value in the draft WITHOUT rolling the dice on these 'tards?

[Spain]

great pick up! give the guy a chance.

[BengalChamps]

great pick up! give the guy a chance.

Let someone else give him a chance. This team should be about winning, not giving people 2nd chances. People with character flaws fall apart come crunch time.

[membengal]

Actually, given the firings in Atlanta and Arizona, the Nick Saban watch in Miami, and the playoff prep, now is a pretty good time to try and sneak this through. Won't work though, given the scrutiny the franchise is under, it will get spotlighted right quick. Won't have a lot of burn though, given everything else that is going on...

Mem - it will get mentioned from now on any time this issue is brought up - game broadcasts, talk shows etc.., at least through next season. No, it's not front page news, but it makes Marvin and the Bengals organization look like idiots, and us like morons for buying into it in the past and hoping things turn out well. They haven't, so I am critical.

Shula Steak, I agree with that. Anyone they bring in with anything in their past is going to get lumped in at this point. At the least, the timing of this signing has so far seemed to fly below the chattering class' radar. For now, at least, that's something.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

That sounds all well and good, but Marvin isn't really saying one thing and then doing another. For example, read the transcript of his last press conference and pay particular attention to his answer about whether the so-called character issue had any effect on this years team. You'll find that Marvin insists the issue had no effect on the performance of this team. And if it hasn't had any effect, well.....why should he change the way he evaluates football players?

You mean like "yes character will be important in this year's draft," last April? Perfect example of saying one thing, then doing another. Yes I am sensitive to this sort of thing because I am stuck with such a boss at my full-time job.

Then Marvin says he'll "go back to what he did the 1st year and be a hard ass?" What kind of comment is that? Does Bill Cowher or Belichick change their management style when the players ask him to?

Look, I made a joke about it earlier, but let's play it straight this time. Marvin doesn't give a crap about your opinion. Or mine. He's repeatedly said that fans and the media have different standards when judging a players character, and he's not going to let others determine how his team is built.

Oh I understand he may not care about some bulletin board fodder, and he may be too arrogant to listen to anyone else, but his players quit on him and a few of his 1st day draft picks were suspended this year.

Somehow that doesn't affect his record or the season? Even the players admit there's problems with character on the team.

But I guess we'll see how things turn out next year - it will probably define the rest of his career as a head coach in the league certainly. I do feel for the fact he has to work under the Brown family, but that's about it.

[hb-Bengalfan]

[jjakq27]

In light of the past season's rap sheet, I must say this really bothers me. Are we that desperate for linebacking help that we needed this guy? If he was so good why isn't he playing for someone else?

I am tired of Marvin trying to be everybody's camp councelor and make them into fine citizens. There is enough talent out there that we don't need anymore guys like this, regardless if he has changed his ways.

[HairOnFire]

Heck, if I remember right, you were among those who lamented Henry's absence loudest, to the point of calling Marvin foolish for imposing his own one-game hiatus on him in addition to the league sanction.

Yup, and I think the same stance should be used when determining Odell Thurman's fate. In short, let the NFL determine whether your players can suit up. If they say they can play...play 'em. Because sitting a player like Henry against a tough opponent like New England hurts the other 52 players on your team and doesn't send any message that the NFL wasn't going to do already. All you're doing is giving credibility to the bleating hand wringers who cry crocodile tears from atop a soapbox.

Fuggem.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Chargers didn't send any additional message to Shawn Merriman after he was suspended by the NFL for cheating. Nor did they send a message of warning to Luis Castillo when they made him a 1st round draft choice despite him admitting that he knowingly used to steroids.

Frankly, I think the whole poor character issue is built upon a level of hypocrisy that is absolutely staggering. Nobody seems to have a problem with players who abuse banned substances that are purchased on the black market, carry significant health hazards, and are taken precisely because they give the player a competitive edge that is so great that it pressures other players to assume the same risks just to keep up. Never mind the fact that we're talking about an act that is blatant cheating in a sport based entirely upon the premise of fair play. Yet there's no media or fan outrage expressed by the hand wringers because the cheating is done in the name of winning and the drug abuse is easily explained as a player simply doing everything he can to get better.

Meanwhile, the Bengals have become the poster child of poor character in the NFL because too many of this teams players have chosen to abuse a legal substance that can be obtained anywhere and is openly used by a large portion of society. And the reason this is true is because alcohol isn't seen as a performance enhancing drug, and neither is demon weed.

Meanwhile, the jury is still out on the performance enhancing qualities gained by associating with teenage hookers, but the early results look promising.

[Dripping Sarcasm Alert]

Man, wouldn't it be great if this team had a better version of drug abusers? Wouldn't it be great if Bengal players were less concerned with having a good time and instead became motivated enough to cheat the game itself? Wouldn't we have something then?

[HairOnFire]

You mean like "yes character will be important in this year's draft," last April? Perfect example of saying one thing, then doing another.

Actually, it's the opposite of a perfect example since Marvin has repeatedly said that "you don't win with church mice" and has admitted that when he evaluates a players character he's looking for different things than a fan, sportswriter, or casual observer would be interested in.

In a nutshell, Marvin's most interested in a players character on the field of play and within the lockerroom. Guys like you are more interested in a players behavior as they drive home.

[schweinhart]

What's interesting to me here is that Berryman has stayed in shape and not given up yet. Some thought he'd get plucked in the supplemental despite the rap.

Here's workout #s from Gil Brandt (God love him):

Update on Berryman, 6/13

There were 17 teams at his workout, including John Dorsey (GB), Scott McCloughan (SF) and Kent McCloughan (Scott's father) from the Raiders. That's a large contingent. He worked out indoors on what was considered a slow track. Dorsey conducted the drills, which lasted 45 minutes, and Berryman did a good job.

LB Berryman (6-0¾, 235) was clocked at 4.67 in the 40 (1.61 after 10; 2.71 after 20), 4.39 in the short shuttle, and 7.33 in the three-cone drill. He also had a 9-foot-11 broad jump, a 32-inch vertical jump and 17 lifts.

It sure looks to me like the Bengals are keeping their options open at strong side LB. Only difference here is that the story line is about as oppositie of a feel good one as Jeanty's as can be got.

No matter. Get the players, worry about the rest later. And who really cares what any one thinks about any thing other than the Bengals blowing the 2006 season with an 8-8 record. I wouldn't pin that one on Odumb or Dopey.

[HoosierCat]

Yup, and I think the same stance should be used when determining Odell Thurman's fate. In short, let the NFL determine whether your players can suit up. If they say they can play...play 'em. Because sitting a player like Henry against a tough opponent like New England hurts the other 52 players on your team and doesn't send any message that the NFL wasn't going to do already. All you're doing is giving credibility to the bleating hand wringers who cry crocodile tears from atop a soapbox.

Well, unfortunately, this is an example of how Marvin doesnt listen to your opinions, either. Welcome to the club.

Frankly, I think the whole poor character issue is built upon a level of hypocrisy that is absolutely staggering. Nobody seems to have a problem with players who abuse banned substances that are purchased on the black market, carry significant health hazards, and are taken precisely because they give the player a competitive edge that is so great that it pressures other players to assume the same risks just to keep up.

I do. And judging by the many who objected to Merriman's pro bowl selection this year, I think you'll see increasingly less tolerance of 'roids in the future. But I'm not really concerned if it's 'roids or booze or pot, or beating up women or stealing stereos and cell phones. What I am concerned about is that, no matter what the specifics, all these things can bring sanctions that take the player off the field. I don't object to taking bad seeds because I'm some kind of prude or goody-two-shoes, I object because these types of guys have repeatedly demonstrated (not just in Cincy but all over the league) that they can't be relied on. That at any moment they may get caught doing something dumb that takes them off the field.

But anyway, looks like we'll get the worst of both worlds next year, eh? Marvin show no sign that he will give any more thought to character in '07 than he gave it in '06 -- AND promises that when those character issues do, inevitably, arise, he will take playing time away, presumably in addition to anything the league does. Sounds like a recipe for pouring salt into self-inflicted wounds to me...

[dave]

Berryman is going to NFL Europe. This could be thoroughly entertaining:

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5830

[AMC]

Berryman is going to NFL Europe. This could be thoroughly entertaining:

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5830

The Bengals have designated four players for allocation to the NFL Europe League for 2006.

The four are tackle Alan Reuber of Texas A&M, linebacker Jason Berryman of Iowa State, tight end Sean Mulcahy of Connecticut and defensive lineman Jimmy Verdon of Arizona State.

Maybe Berryman could report to the Amsterdam Admirals. There he could foster his jump into a mature human being courtesy of the wonderful coffeehouses and mushroom bars.

Also, maybe the TE from UCONN is related to Father Mulcahy from MASH. That could mean good character.

[HoTbOy]

Lies,Lies,Lies 1st NSaban with the I'm not leaving Miami, and now MLewis with the I will be cracking down and then signs another character guy...

[HairOnFire]

....judging by the many who objected to Merriman's pro bowl selection this year, I think you'll see increasingly less tolerance of 'roids in the future.

There were even more voices saying that he should be allowed to go because he had paid his 4 game debt. But that ignores the fact that Merriman almost certainly wasn't a one time user who got caught right away. Far more likely is the idea that one of the reasons he's an elite player is because he built his body using steroids over a period of months or years.

From the very first moment that Shawne Merriman decided to use steroids he willingly chose to use an illegal substance to cheat in a competive sport. His actions were taken in an effort to gain an advantage over others he competed against, an act of deliberate cheating that goes to the very heart of the spirit of competition that the NFL is built upon. Meanwhile, for reasons I'll never understand far more outrage is expressed when a football player buys a legal drug like alcohol and drinks an amount that surpasses a legal limit that differs for every person. yeah, we all agree it's wrong, but there's rarely any criminal intent involved.

Call me crazy but I think the NFL's efforts to police it's players should begin and end with the players who cheat the game. And there's alot of them. Washington Redskin offensive lineman Jon Jansen has claimed that more than 20% of NFL players reguarly use steroids. If true that strikes me as a huge story that everyone seems determined to ignore because they're too busy documenting how many beers Eric Steinbach drank while boating.

[HoosierCat]

[ Call me crazy but I think the NFL's efforts to police it's players should begin and end with the players who cheat the game.

I've got no problem with a stronger crackdown on 'roids. As for other substances, and criminal behavior, and all that...well, like it or not those are the rules, agreed to by ownership and the players' union. No one is forcing these players to sign contracts with the league. But once they do, they have to follow the rules.

[HairOnFire]

[ Call me crazy but I think the NFL's efforts to police it's players should begin and end with the players who cheat the game.

I've got no problem with a stronger crackdown on 'roids. As for other substances, and criminal behavior, and all that...well, like it or not those are the rules, agreed to by ownership and the players' union. No one is forcing these players to sign contracts with the league. But once they do, they have to follow the rules.

But again, most of the highly publicized arrests associated with Bengal players this season are alcohol related, and alcohol is a legal substance that can be purchased anywhere. It's even legal to drive a car after having a few drinks...just as long as you don't pass the legal limit. So where largely talking about an error in judgement that is troubling, but lacks criminal intent. And most importantly, when we're talking about incidents of players partying late at night...during the offseason...or on a day off...it's not something that impacts the job the player is being paid to do.

I simply could not care less about Eric Steinbach boating with a beer in his hand, Matthias Askew parking illegally, or Chris Henry's fondness for teenage hookers. Tell me that Peko peed on a bush and then ran from the police and all you'll get from me is laughter. And if Odell Thurman and Deltha Oneal get caught driving drunk then let society deal with them in exactly the same way they would you or I. But none of this has anything to do with football and I think it's remarkably fugtarded to conclude that the best way to deal with this type of problem in our society is having a football team impose a form of punishment that threatens an employees right to earn a paycheck.

[HoosierCat]

But again, most of the highly publicized arrests associated with Bengal players this season are alcohol related, and alcohol is a legal substance that can be purchased anywhere.

True. But then again, freedom of speech is a constitutional guarantee, but IIRC you didn't have any qualms about Mike Brown limiting it with the loyalty clause. As you argued then, with owners paying millions and millions of dollars to players, aren't extra layers of protection prudent? They are, after all, paying these guys for their physical skills, something substance abuse can definitely impact. Is it that different from clauses prohibiting them from playing other sports (and risking injury) or forbidding dangerous activities like riding a crotch rocket without a helmet?

[agreen_112]

From Hobson...

The Bengals’ efforts to put the off-field issues behind them hit a snag on the second day of the offseason when one of the nine street free agents they signed was former Iowa State linebacker Jason Berryman.

Berryman has served nearly 300 days in jail on assault and theft charges in 2004 assault and was then kicked off the Cyclones after the 2005 season for being cited on the premises of a club underage, which was listed as an alcohol offense. No arrest was made, according to an Iowa newspaper.

Damn 300 days. He should be big as hell, no wonder the Bengals signed him. I love it! We're starting to look like we're going to have that depth again at LB. Odell, Berryman, Nicholson, Brooks, LJ (unless we get rid of 'em), Simmons (which I think is just about done) and Pollack (If he can return), not to mention Jeanty and Miller. I'd say we're going to draft either a DB or a D-lineman with the 1st pick. Never know we may just pick up a RB..

[HairOnFire]

But again, most of the highly publicized arrests associated with Bengal players this season are alcohol related, and alcohol is a legal substance that can be purchased anywhere.

True. But then again, freedom of speech is a constitutional guarantee, but IIRC you didn't have any qualms about Mike Brown limiting it with the loyalty clause. As you argued then, with owners paying millions and millions of dollars to players, aren't extra layers of protection prudent? They are, after all, paying these guys for their physical skills, something substance abuse can definitely impact. Is it that different from clauses prohibiting them from playing other sports (and risking injury) or forbidding dangerous activities like riding a crotch rocket without a helmet?

You and I both know that the Loyalty Clause was written to prevent players from talking their way out of signed contracts by waging a media based war with their employer. The clause was added to contracts precisely because the ruls of the NFL frequently prevented an employer from firing his employee under circumstances that would have resulted in termination in any other profession. And because the rules of the NFL are unique you ended up with a contract provision that is rarely seen outside of the entertainment industry....which the NFL is definately a part of. Regardless, your example is a poor one precisely because Mike Brown claimed that it would never be used as a hammer against common everyday criticism or as a blunt force tool intended to muzzle a players free speech, and history proved Mike Brown was being 100% honest.

As for the contract provisions that restrict a player from engaing in activities like skydiving, skiing, or motorcycle riding...we're now talking about restrictions added to a basic employment contract that deal directly with activities that are legal but potentially career ending. Once again, the provisions are added precisely because the activities are dangerous to the health of an employee, but not prevented by law, resulting in unique contract lanquage.

And there's the rub because driving drunk and smoking the herb are activities that result in fair and equal punishment under the color of law. There's simply no need for a football team to try to legislate morality since no special circumstance exists.

[HoosierCat]

And there's the rub because driving drunk and smoking the herb are activities that result in fair and equal punishment under the color of law. There's simply no need for a football team to try to legislate morality since no special circumstance exists.

No owner is trying to legislate morality -- they are simply lookin to protect large investments. Drinking and driving can result in career-ending injury just as can skydiving. The actual legality of the act is irrelevant to the debate.

[bengalsrz]

Wow, when will we learn...