BengalsZone Big Board '07

[HoosierCat]

Welcome, Bengals fans, to the BengalsZone Big Board '07! We've been following the slowly-developing conventional wisdom on the Bengals' 2007 top two draft picks next April in this thread here:

http://forums.bengalszone.com/index.php?showtopic=11473

...but with the team sinking below .500 and falling 3 games out of the division race, I figured it was time to give the Board its own thread. The Board summarizes picks across the 'net as tracked here: http://www.bengalszone.com/mockdrafts.php

When we last left our early draft prognosticators, TE Greg Olsen was leading the pack with 6 votes, with DT Quinn Pitcock second at two votes. They were the only two players with more than a single selection. TE was the leading positionally with 7 votes, followed by DT at 5 and DE at 3. Suffice it to say that things have changed dramatically in the last month. The Board:

DT Quinn Pitcock 7 (+5)

TE Greg Olsen 5 (-1)

S LaRon Landry 2 (+1)

DT Frank Okam 2 (+1)

Positionally, the breakdown is:

DT 12 (+7)

TE 5 (-2)

DE 3 (no change)

S 2 (-1)

LB 1 (-1)

QB 1 (no change)

OT 1 (no change)

[schweinhart]

Great work as always Cat

I'm finding the surge of junior D-line prospects jumping onto the list intriguing:

Red Bryant DT

Glenn Dorsey DT

Lawrence Jackson DE

Course at 4-5 and the possibility of the bubble badly bursting on the horizon, the Bengals could climb up to Alan Branch range

One small note, on Kaz's mock his 2nd rounder Keith Rivers is listed at Florida (He wouldn't even start there ) Rivers play at USC.

[HoosierCat]

Great work as always Cat

I try. Thanks.

I'm finding the surge of junior D-line prospects jumping onto the list intriguing:

Red Bryant DT

Glenn Dorsey DT

Lawrence Jackson DE

Course at 4-5 and the possibility of the bubble badly bursting on the horizon, the Bengals could climb up to Alan Branch range

It will be interesting to see who comes out, certainly. I can't cheer for anyone in particular since I dont follow college ball all that closely, but I think the focus on the d-line is dead on.

One small note, on Kaz's mock his 2nd rounder Keith Rivers is listed at Florida (He wouldn't even start there ) Rivers play at USC.

Will get around to fixing that at some point. Thanks.

[Kazkal]

Gonna work on a new mock when the order is figured out...(i don't use quite exact order but just as a base.

[Tasher]

I am sticking to my guns!

I said in some thread that the 53 man roster would be entirely composed of LINEBACKERS at some point in Marvin's tenure. (I would like to note that this was said PRIOR to all the injuries, so it now seems prophetic!)

So, round 1 - 7 every pick wil be...

...a LINEBACKER!

BTW, I am already right on one draft pick of the 2007 draft!

[schweinhart]

If it's LBs you're after, check out Consensus Draft on the Zone Board. They've got 6 going in the 2nd half of the 1st including Paul Posluszny, HB Blades, Xavier Adibi, Patrick Willis, Buster Davis and Rufus Alexander. Draft King has got 5 going in the 2nd half of the 1st -- Poz, Buster, Rufus, Willis and David Harris.

Doubtful any LBs go in the top half of the 1st in 2007 but there's a lot of solid ones that should get scattered in the 1st 4 rounds.

[Tasher]

If it's LBs you're after, check out Consensus Draft on the Zone Board. They've got 6 going in the 2nd half of the 1st including Paul Posluszny, HB Blades, Xavier Adibi, Patrick Willis, Buster Davis and Rufus Alexander. Draft King has got 5 going in the 2nd half of the 1st -- Poz, Buster, Rufus, Willis and David Harris.

Doubtful any LBs go in the top half of the 1st in 2007 but there's a lot of solid ones that should get scattered in the 1st 4 rounds.

My mistake, what I meant was...

EVERY Bengal pick will be a LB!

[HoosierCat]

While I've always been a Bob Dylan fan, his songs always somehow seem better when done by some else. Y'know, someone who can...well...sing. The classic example, of course, is Dylan's "All Along the Watchtower," whcih Jimi Hendrix took and made his personal beyotch.

Similarly, I am starting to get the feeling that this April I'll be listening to a Dylan tune, just one being sung by Manfred Mann...

Everybody's building ships and boats

Some are building monuments, others are jotting down notes

Everybody's in despair, every girl and boy

But when Quinn the Eskimo gets here

Everybody's gonna jump for joy

Come all without, come all within

You'll not see nothing like the Mighty Quinn

Well, I suppose we'll see if we jump or doze, eh? But Quinn Pitcock earns the title "Mighty" this update by becoming the Big Board's first double-digit expert choice of the season. In fact, the DT position overall is already running away with the Bengals' first round selection. One guy even thinks Alan Branch will slip to the Bengals at 16. Here's how the choices break down as we head towards Turkey Day:

DT Quinn Pitcock 10 (+3)

TE Greg Olsen 7 (+2)

DT Frank Okam 3 (+1)

S LaRon Landry 2 (no change)

Positionally, the breakdown is:

DT 15 (+3)

TE 7 (+2)

DE 2 (-1)

S 2 (no change)

LB 1 (no change)

QB 1 (no change)

[schweinhart]

Maybe a Mighty Quinn Igloo instead of the Pitcock train? All inside rather than all aboard.

My mistake, what I meant was...

EVERY Bengal pick will be a LB!

My bad...I gotchaya.

1. Earl Everett

2. Desmond Bishop

4. Quinton Culberson

5. Matt Muncy

6. Clint Session

7. Quinton Frierson

How's that

[Tasher]

My bad...I gotchaya.

1. Earl Everett

2. Desmond Bishop

4. Quinton Culberson

5. Matt Muncy

6. Clint Session

7. Quinton Frierson

How's that

Nice!

BengalsNation would be cheering loudly!

[HoosierCat]

Well, it appears that we may, indeed, not see nothin' like the Mighty Quinn, since his stock has shot up into the top of the first round on some boards. But never fear, Bengals fans! Even as the Mighty Quinn looks to land in (less) greener pastures (like, say, Oakland or Detroit), a new leader is emerging to lead the Bengals defense to the promised land. Everybody give a big, Cecil B. DeMille welcome to this update's up-and-climber, Moses! DE Quentin Moses, that is.

Positionally, DT and TE fell out of favor, while DE, OL, and LB all gained.

By Name:

DT Quinn Pitcock 5 (-5)

TE Greg Olsen 5 (-2)

DE Quentin Moses 3 (+2)

DT Frank Okam 3 (no change)

OT Jake Long 2 (+2)

DT Alan Branch (+1)

LB Paul Posluszny 2 (+1)

S LaRon Landry 2 (no change)

By Position:

DT 11 (-4)

TE 5 (-2)

DE 4 (+2)

OL 3 (+3)

LB 3 (+2)

S 2 (no change)

QB 1 (no change)

[schweinhart]

Holy Moses!

That would be great, much better IMO than Pitcock or Greg Olsen.

[Tasher]

Anybody watch the Rutgers vs WVU game?

TE Clark Harris Rutgers 6-6 260

He was phenomenal!

He is supposed to be the best Blocking/Pass Catching TE in the draft and better yet, he is not considered a 1st / 2nd rounder. He is rated "early 3rd round" which would make him perfect for us to pick up in the late 2nd! So that we don't miss out on him like we did Fasano and Scheffler last year!

But in all seriousness, he looked very good running routes and blocking in the run game for the Rutgers backs.

This is a guy I would like to see in Orange and Black stripes!

[Kazkal]

TE sounds like a good year to pick one up in rnds 3-5 (I woulden't mind us trading down if a defensive stud that you can't say no too isen't there...

BTW everytime a mock drafter gives us pitcock.it makes baby jesus cry.

I don't hate the guy and I woulden't complain if we drafted him I just hate 90% of people think he'll be the missing cog to our defense

[schweinhart]

Anybody watch the Rutgers vs WVU game?

TE Clark Harris Rutgers 6-6 260

He was phenomenal!

He is supposed to be the best Blocking/Pass Catching TE in the draft and better yet, he is not considered a 1st / 2nd rounder. He is rated "early 3rd round" which would make him perfect for us to pick up in the late 2nd! So that we don't miss out on him like we did Fasano and Scheffler last year!

But in all seriousness, he looked very good running routes and blocking in the run game for the Rutgers backs.

This is a guy I would like to see in Orange and Black stripes!

Plus Clark is a snapper with some wits about him:

Tight end Harris contributing in big way on special teams

By KEITH SARGEANT

Gannett New Jersey

CINCINNATI -- In a season heading into which he was billed as an All-America tight end, Clark Harris' biggest contribution might be as Rutgers' long snapper.

While Harris' statistics are down compared to the past two seasons, he's made quite an impact snapping on field goals and punts.

Harris' brightest moment came last week against Louisville, when in the waning seconds he purposely quick snapped to holder Anthony Cali after seeing a Cardinals player jump offsides.

"Right before I snap, usually I look up," Harris said. "Out of the corner of my eye, I saw the guy shoot off from the corner, so I snapped it just to give us another chance in case he missed it."

Harris' quick thinking and quick snap proved crucial when Jeremy Ito hooked his 33-yard attempt. The 5-yard penalty gave Ito a reprieve and the Scarlet Knights' junior booted a 28-yarder through the uprights, giving Rutgers a 28-25 victory.

"I knew he was blatantly offsides when I snapped the ball," Harris said, "but I was just hoping he (the official) made the right call in that situation."

[AMC]

Anybody watch the Rutgers vs WVU game?

TE Clark Harris Rutgers 6-6 260

He was phenomenal!

He is supposed to be the best Blocking/Pass Catching TE in the draft and better yet, he is not considered a 1st / 2nd rounder. He is rated "early 3rd round" which would make him perfect for us to pick up in the late 2nd! So that we don't miss out on him like we did Fasano and Scheffler last year!

But in all seriousness, he looked very good running routes and blocking in the run game for the Rutgers backs.

This is a guy I would like to see in Orange and Black stripes!

Plus Clark is a snapper with some wits about him:

Tight end Harris contributing in big way on special teams

By KEITH SARGEANT

Gannett New Jersey

CINCINNATI -- In a season heading into which he was billed as an All-America tight end, Clark Harris' biggest contribution might be as Rutgers' long snapper.

While Harris' statistics are down compared to the past two seasons, he's made quite an impact snapping on field goals and punts.

Harris' brightest moment came last week against Louisville, when in the waning seconds he purposely quick snapped to holder Anthony Cali after seeing a Cardinals player jump offsides.

"Right before I snap, usually I look up," Harris said. "Out of the corner of my eye, I saw the guy shoot off from the corner, so I snapped it just to give us another chance in case he missed it."

Harris' quick thinking and quick snap proved crucial when Jeremy Ito hooked his 33-yard attempt. The 5-yard penalty gave Ito a reprieve and the Scarlet Knights' junior booted a 28-yarder through the uprights, giving Rutgers a 28-25 victory.

"I knew he was blatantly offsides when I snapped the ball," Harris said, "but I was just hoping he (the official) made the right call in that situation."

Uh oh to the ever present Brad St. Louis!?!?!?!

(Sarcasm???)

[HoosierCat]

BTW everytime a mock drafter gives us pitcock.it makes baby jesus cry.

I don't hate the guy and I woulden't complain if we drafted him I just hate 90% of people think he'll be the missing cog to our defense

Thats OK, Kaz. We all hate you, too

[Kazkal]

It's easy to hate on me though.just be nice if people did little more research is all

[HoosierCat]

Mighty Quinn would be a no-brainer if he's still on the board when the Bengals pick -- which he won't be. The way he picked his game back up this season after slipping a bit in his junior year was impressive, although I think that "slip" had a lot to do with what he was being asked to do then, with a lot more defensive talent around him. But the bottom line is that he can stop the run well, and get to the QB. He's like Thornton, except with actual talent.

Frankly, Moses doesn't excite me. We already have a couple "Moseses" in Geathers and Pollack (not to mention Rucker and Henderson). Pay Justin Smith and get some talent for the middle of the line, if indeed the d-line is where the Bengals are looking come April.

[Stripes]

The Bengals seem to need a pass rushing DT, and Pitcock would fit the bill. Nobody likes a Buckeyes homer, but I think he'd be just that missing cog, Kaz. As Hoosier said, though... Doubtful he'll be available.

[HairOnFire]

Great work as always Cat

I'm finding the surge of junior D-line prospects jumping onto the list intriguing:

Red Bryant DT

Glenn Dorsey DT

Lawrence Jackson DE

The tea leaves say that Lawrence Jackson is staying at USC. In fact, one of his best friends on the team recently announced that he was returning for a senior season due to assurances from Jackson that he too was coming back next year.

It isn't much of a surprise. Jackson openly admitted over the last couple of months that he had crumbled under the mental pressure of trying to solidify his status as a potential 1st round pick this season and had come to the conclusion that, despite a late surge, he had completely blown it.

It's possible he'll change his mind, but I'd bet heavily against it.

[schweinhart]

Great work as always Cat

I'm finding the surge of junior D-line prospects jumping onto the list intriguing:

Red Bryant DT

Glenn Dorsey DT

Lawrence Jackson DE

The tea leaves say that Lawrence Jackson is staying at USC. In fact, one of his best friends on the team recently announced that he was returning for a senior season due to assurances from Jackson that he too was coming back next year.

It isn't much of a surprise. Jackson openly admitted over the last couple of months that he had crumbled under the mental pressure of trying to solidify his status as a potential 1st round pick this season and had come to the conclusion that, despite a late surge, he had completely blown it.

It's possible he'll change his mind, but I'd bet heavily against it.

Jackson is popping up as staying which is great for SC but not as good for him IMO. They've already bulked him up to 278 and he'll probably add to that as he goes playing a 3-4 DE. The biggest appeal to NFL teams with Jackson is not what he did this year in the way he was used but last year as a 4-3 DE at about 265, which is his ideal playing weight at his ideal position. SC asked him to play a different position this year and from what I saw he did what they asked him to do.

But I haven't seen where Jackson has requested an early entry evaluation from the league. If he does, it should still be mid to late 1st round based on his fit as a 4-3 DE. That would be hard for him to pass on.

[derekshank]

Great work as always Cat

I'm finding the surge of junior D-line prospects jumping onto the list intriguing:

Red Bryant DT

Glenn Dorsey DT

Lawrence Jackson DE

The tea leaves say that Lawrence Jackson is staying at USC. In fact, one of his best friends on the team recently announced that he was returning for a senior season due to assurances from Jackson that he too was coming back next year.

It isn't much of a surprise. Jackson openly admitted over the last couple of months that he had crumbled under the mental pressure of trying to solidify his status as a potential 1st round pick this season and had come to the conclusion that, despite a late surge, he had completely blown it.

It's possible he'll change his mind, but I'd bet heavily against it.

Jackson is popping up as staying which is great for SC but not as good for him IMO. They've already bulked him up to 278 and he'll probably add to that as he goes playing a 3-4 DE. The biggest appeal to NFL teams with Jackson is not what he did this year in the way he was used but last year as a 4-3 DE at about 265, which is his ideal playing weight at his ideal position. SC asked him to play a different position this year and from what I saw he did what they asked him to do.

But I haven't seen where Jackson has requested an early entry evaluation from the league. If he does, it should still be mid to late 1st round based on his fit as a 4-3 DE. That would be hard for him to pass on.

You never know. They bulked Pollack up his junior year, and he was less productive... so he went back down nearer to his sophomore weight and became a 1st round selection.

Kind of the same issue with Robert Geathers progression as a Bengal. It seems like teams try to put more weight on guys... but when they learn they are less productive, and more than willing to let them slim back down.

[HairOnFire]

Jackson is popping up as staying which is great for SC but not as good for him IMO. They've already bulked him up to 278 and he'll probably add to that as he goes playing a 3-4 DE. The biggest appeal to NFL teams with Jackson is not what he did this year in the way he was used but last year as a 4-3 DE at about 265, which is his ideal playing weight at his ideal position. SC asked him to play a different position this year and from what I saw he did what they asked him to do.

But I haven't seen where Jackson has requested an early entry evaluation from the league. If he does, it should still be mid to late 1st round based on his fit as a 4-3 DE. That would be hard for him to pass on.

Fair enough, but as I pointed out in an earlier thread Jackson was asked to bulk up to fill the "Elephant End" position that Frostee Rucker had vacated, and in that role Jackson performed at a much lower level than Rucker managed. So I'll not bother arguing the point that Jackson is better suited to play at a lighter weight and mostly as a pure pass rusher. All I'll add is this. Players are routinely asked to sacrifice personal goals for the good of the team, and Jackson's statistical production suffered as a result of this type of request...just as Frostee Rucker's sack production suffered the previous season while Jackson was turned loose at the opposite end position.

Frankly, your point that Jackson is a better DE than his numbers indicate isn't an argument that is lost on me...because it's the same one I offered after draft day in defense of Frostee Rucker.

Last, I spent last week wading through my vacation-pack of old newspapers, and just stumbled upon an article from earlier in the week where Jackson was directly quoted about his plans to return for his senior season. He's definately not entering the NFL early.

[HoosierCat]

When we last left the Bengalszone Big Board, Moses had parted the sea...but he has been prevented from crossing by a horde of DTs, led by The Mighty Quinn. Defensive tackle sucked up 18 votes in the latest update, six more than all other positions combined. Pitcock recovered some of his losses from the last update, but remains below his high of 10 votes. (The two DTs with one vote each are Alan Branch and Turk McBride.) Here's the breakdown...

By Name:

DT Quinn Pitcock 8 (+3)

DE Quentin Moses 3 (no change)

TE Greg Olsen 3 (-2)

DT Tank Tyler 2 (+1)

DT Marcus Thomas 2 (+1)

DT Glenn Dorsey 2 (+1)

DT Frank Okam 2 (-1)

OT Jake Long 2 (no change)

LB Paul Posluszny 2 (no change)

By Position:

DT 18 (+7)

TE 3 (-2)

DE 3 (-1)

OL 2 (-1)

LB 2 (-1)

S 1 (-1)

QB 1 (no change)