CB Jonathan Joseph selected to midseason all rookie team

[TJJackson]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedi...content.23.html

of course, the fellow I wanted instead of Frostee the Slowman also made this team

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedi...content.15.html

as did the TE I said we desperately needed

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/multimedi...content.12.html

No one named Gillis made the team, unfortunately

[Kazkal]

He would be nice instead of slowman but I still wish we would have picked ko =)

JJ has been playing like a stud he just needs some sticky gloves...would been nice to have 2 1st rnd picks and draft JJ + mangold.

[bengalboomer7]

Congrats to JJ on the solid play. Hopefully he's on his way to becoming a staple for the defense

[HairOnFire]

Worst draft ever?

1 - Jonathan Joseph - Pushing hard for starters position. Gets lots of playing time and has played from the very start at a very high level. Future looks very bright.

2 - Andrew Whitworth - Current starter. Has logged major playing time at several positions and has performed well at each. Thrown into the fire very early against top competition and has held up very well.

3a - Ahmad Brooks - Current starter. Held under wraps for several weeks before injuries forced him into the lineup. More disciplined than predicted, and has flashed huge upside.

3b - Frostee Rucker - Injured in preseason and placed on season ending IR. Guilty until proven innocent. Wait, check that. Guilty until proven less guilty. May have to be sacrificed on the altar of moral outrage and fan stupidity.

4 - Domata Peko. Top reserve. Better player than first thought. Yet to prove he's starter quality, but already a top reserve and valuable wave player. Get's major playing time. Hasn't improperly peed to date.

[Stripes]

Don't forget Kilmer... already the best gunner on the team.

[TJJackson]

Frostee the Slowman and B&E Nicholson alone make this a very poor draft, albeit I have admitted - repeatedly now folks, not sure when this is gonna sink in for ya'all - that Whitworth and Peko have been (respectively) very pleasant and pleasant suprises.

JJ - solidly good pick, never complained about him

Frostee - horrendously bad pick, and it has nothing to do with his urine stream or the placement thereof

Mcneal -Likes to drink with Chris Henry and Odell. Great. Sure winner there

Kilmer - He's OK. I was OK with him as soon as I learned he was/is a S and a special team specialist. Recall he was listed as a WR in the draft. Therein lay my issue with him. Not sure i agree with the "best gunner on the team" tag yet. I see a lot of good things from Herana-daze Jones. I wonder if Kilmer could RETURN kicks? seems like he has the toughs and the speed for it.

Brazell - despite all the injuries, I still say we have and had too damn many wideouts. I know he had a good preseason. But he was and is still a WR. Should have taken a TE or a defender.

Brooks - You say he is a pick THIS year. I say I count him as a pick NEXT year, since that's when we pay a r3 pick for him. Check with me next April on whether he contributes or detrats from the value of the 2007 draft. He does NOT in my opinion count as someone who I consider when I rate THIS YEAR'S draft.

[CBin2k7]

Frostee the Slowman and B&E Nicholson alone make this a very poor draft, albeit I have admitted - repeatedly now folks, not sure when this is gonna sink in for ya'all - that Whitworth and Peko have been (respectively) very pleasant and pleasant suprises.

JJ - solidly good pick, never complained about him

Frostee - horrendously bad pick, and it has nothing to do with his urine stream or the placement thereof

Mcneal -Likes to drink with Chris Henry and Odell. Great. Sure winner there

Kilmer - He's OK. I was OK with him as soon as I learned he was/is a S and a special team specialist. Recall he was listed as a WR in the draft. Therein lay my issue with him. Not sure i agree with the "best gunner on the team" tag yet. I see a lot of good things from Herana-daze Jones. I wonder if Kilmer could RETURN kicks? seems like he has the toughs and the speed for it.

Brazell - despite all the injuries, I still say we have and had too damn many wideouts. I know he had a good preseason. But he was and is still a WR. Should have taken a TE or a defender.

Brooks - You say he is a pick THIS year. I say I count him as a pick NEXT year, since that's when we pay a r3 pick for him. Check with me next April on whether he contributes or detrats from the value of the 2007 draft. He does NOT in my opinion count as someone who I consider when I rate THIS YEAR'S draft.

TJ, how can you say we have too many wideouts, you can't say despite the injuries, because the injuries/suspensions have crushed the wideout depth so much this season, that the extra wideouts are actually needed. Hell, Glenn Holt is on the active roster and Kilmer is getting WR reps in practice, that should tell you as much as you need to know.

And please can Marvin find a new KR/PR. Perry and Ratliff make me cringe everytime they touch the damn ball.

[Whur CHad At?]

I don't think Frostee was a bad pick at all. Give him some time. Just because he didn't run a 4.2 40 doesnt mean he is bad TJ

[Stripes]

Frostee the Slowman and B&E Nicholson alone make this a very poor draft

How's that? You've granted that the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and one of the 7th round picks have all been solid contributors thus far. That's more than we got last year or the year previous this quickly.

Sounds to me like you're coming around, but you don't have the guts to swallow some pride and actually admit that the 2006 draft wasn't nearly as bad as you had originally claimed.

[BengalPimp]

Frostee the Slowman and B&E Nicholson alone make this a very poor draft, albeit I have admitted - repeatedly now folks, not sure when this is gonna sink in for ya'all - that Whitworth and Peko have been (respectively) very pleasant and pleasant suprises.

JJ - solidly good pick, never complained about him

Frostee - horrendously bad pick, and it has nothing to do with his urine stream or the placement thereof

Mcneal -Likes to drink with Chris Henry and Odell. Great. Sure winner there

Kilmer - He's OK. I was OK with him as soon as I learned he was/is a S and a special team specialist. Recall he was listed as a WR in the draft. Therein lay my issue with him. Not sure i agree with the "best gunner on the team" tag yet. I see a lot of good things from Herana-daze Jones. I wonder if Kilmer could RETURN kicks? seems like he has the toughs and the speed for it.

Brazell - despite all the injuries, I still say we have and had too damn many wideouts. I know he had a good preseason. But he was and is still a WR. Should have taken a TE or a defender.

Brooks - You say he is a pick THIS year. I say I count him as a pick NEXT year, since that's when we pay a r3 pick for him. Check with me next April on whether he contributes or detrats from the value of the 2007 draft. He does NOT in my opinion count as someone who I consider when I rate THIS YEAR'S draft.

You are just plain Ignorant. You wanted TE Fasano in 2nd rd instead of Whitworth LOL Fasano? who cares if he is on some midseason list? His stats..7 games 10 rec / 82yards / 0 TD's (so now you say whitworth was an OK pick, with your tail between your legs)

You condemn Rucker when you havent even seen him play....when you finally do, you'll probably take back what you are saying(once again, tail between your legs)

You knock Brazell, when he played pretty damn good in preseason, saying "he is still a WR Should have taken a TE or a defender" How many Te's or defenders do you see drafted in the 7th round that contibute? WR's can...if you doubt that, look no further than our own roster and TJ Houshmandzadeh (7th rd '01)

You knocked the pick of Peko, then took that back(again, with your tail between your legs)

I'm just curious, so I'll ask.....Did you (with your extremely POOR judge of talent) by any chance work for the Bengals as a consultant for the draft for any part of the 1990's ? because that would explain some of the terrible drafts they USED to have. Get a job, earn some money, then MAYBE you can BUY a clue.....

[HairOnFire]

Brooks - You say he is a pick THIS year. I say I count him as a pick NEXT year, since that's when we pay a r3 pick for him. Check with me next April on whether he contributes or detrats from the value of the 2007 draft. He does NOT in my opinion count as someone who I consider when I rate THIS YEAR'S draft.

TJ, you've always seemed like a slow learner, but who would guess that you're a full year behind?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Worst draft ever?

1 - Jonathan Joseph - Pushing hard for starters position. Gets lots of playing time and has played from the very start at a very high level. Future looks very bright.

2 - Andrew Whitworth - Current starter. Has logged major playing time at several positions and has performed well at each. Thrown into the fire very early against top competition and has held up very well.

3a - Ahmad Brooks - Current starter. Held under wraps for several weeks before injuries forced him into the lineup. More disciplined than predicted, and has flashed huge upside.

3b - Frostee Rucker - Injured in preseason and placed on season ending IR. Guilty until proven innocent. Wait, check that. Guilty until proven less guilty. May have to be sacrificed on the altar of moral outrage and fan stupidity.

4 - Domata Peko. Top reserve. Better player than first thought. Yet to prove he's starter quality, but already a top reserve and valuable wave player. Get's major playing time. Hasn't improperly peed to date.

I don't think anyone (well, after the fact) really said *worst* draft ever since the Bengals have set the standard quite high there. To quibble with your list, Whitworth and Brooks are starters by default, not choice, and Brooks is really a part of next year's draft (I don't give extra credit this year for burning a 2007 pick). I'd say Joseph was a good pick where he was, Whitworth was average, Peko was a fantastic pickup, Brooks looks good *if* he can stay clean. I still say Rucker was a ridiculously terrible pick based both on his on-the-field abilities and off-the-field problems.

[agreen_112]

Yeah I agree with all of you guys, who have made some really good points. We're getting solid production out of this draft already. This team is definitely heading in the right direction under Marv! The only thing that I'm unhappy about is the defensive line, which I think we couldv'e done a little better. I still say it will be another year or two before we make the SB, but who knows, we may blow up this next half of the season. I'm sure we'll make the playoffs and start some drama, but the SB is something that we are going to have to build up to. WE need that experience in the playoffs first... All in all, I think it was a good draft and JJ was a great 1st selection, perfect as a nickel back.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Yeah I agree with all of you guys, who have made some really good points. We're getting solid production out of this draft already. This team is definitely heading in the right direction under Marv! The only thing that I'm unhappy about is the defensive line, which I think we couldv'e done a little better. I still say it will be another year or two before we make the SB, but who knows, we may blow up this next half of the season. I'm sure we'll make the playoffs and start some drama, but the SB is something that we are going to have to build up to. WE need that experience in the playoffs first... All in all, I think it was a good draft and JJ was a great 1st selection, perfect as a nickel back.

Yeah, but to me the question is, why is the D line still so bad? We have our supposed plugger (Sam). We have our supposed pass-rush studs in Smith and Geathers (pass downs), Robinson (good all-around end), and Thornton looks better and Peko is pretty good. I'm not so sure it's the players any more.

Of course, this year the LBs are making the line look bad on occasion, but still.

[TJJackson]

TJ, how can you say we have too many wideouts

Because you have a 53 man roster, and they can't all be wideouts....you can only keep a very limited number. Doesn't make sense to bring 14 wideouts to camp when you know you can only keep 5 or 6, tops. Spend the choices at other thinner positions - like TE or S (using this year as a frame of reference)

you can't say despite the injuries, because the injuries/suspensions have crushed the wideout depth so much this season, that the extra wideouts are actually needed.

Yes, but it is a bad idea to draft with the EXPECTATION of injuries all at one position. One could say they guessed lucky this year. It's still a bad idea. If they had drafted 5 defensive lineman in the past two years and we'd had to let them go because no one ws injured and etc, you'd understand my point better.

Hell, Glenn Holt is on the active roster

Yep, that is in part what the practice squad is for, an active reserve and hedge against injury

and Kilmer is getting WR reps in practice, that should tell you as much as you need to know.

Kilmer was drafted in no small part because of his ability to play multiple positions, WR being just one of those. It tells me players should strive to be able to play mutiple positions if they want to play for Marvin.

And please can Marvin find a new KR/PR. Perry and Ratliff make me cringe everytime they touch the damn ball.

100% agreement there.

I don't think Frostee was a bad pick at all. Give him some time. Just because he didn't run a 4.2 40 doesnt mean he is bad TJ

Let me know when you find that 300 pound guy who runs a 4.2...*laff*......I'm sure he'll go high in the draft

[KMH14]

Worst draft ever?

1 - Jonathan Joseph - Pushing hard for starters position. Gets lots of playing time and has played from the very start at a very high level. Future looks very bright.

2 - Andrew Whitworth - Current starter. Has logged major playing time at several positions and has performed well at each. Thrown into the fire very early against top competition and has held up very well.

3a - Ahmad Brooks - Current starter. Held under wraps for several weeks before injuries forced him into the lineup. More disciplined than predicted, and has flashed huge upside.

3b - Frostee Rucker - Injured in preseason and placed on season ending IR. Guilty until proven innocent. Wait, check that. Guilty until proven less guilty. May have to be sacrificed on the altar of moral outrage and fan stupidity.

4 - Domata Peko. Top reserve. Better player than first thought. Yet to prove he's starter quality, but already a top reserve and valuable wave player. Get's major playing time. Hasn't improperly peed to date.

I don't think anyone (well, after the fact) really said *worst* draft ever since the Bengals have set the standard quite high there. To quibble with your list, Whitworth and Brooks are starters by default, not choice, and Brooks is really a part of next year's draft (I don't give extra credit this year for burning a 2007 pick). I'd say Joseph was a good pick where he was, Whitworth was average, Peko was a fantastic pickup, Brooks looks good *if* he can stay clean. I still say Rucker was a ridiculously terrible pick based both on his on-the-field abilities and off-the-field problems.

Why is everyone saying that Brooks should be considered for next year's draft because that's when we

lose the third round pick we expended on him? That is like saying the Bills did not draft J.P. Losman in

2004 because they traded their first round draft pick for him for the 2005 draft. Under the Ahmad Brooks theory people are using here, since the Bills did not lose any draft picks until the 2005 draft, he was drafted in 2005 instead of 2004.

[bengalboomer7]

Don't forget Kilmer... already the best gunner on the team.

Now there's someone who hasn't been praised enough. Not only is he the best gunner on the team, he's our best special teamer, TJ.(And's it not even close). Constantly the first man down on punt team, so fast the second man is way behind.

Good call TDB, Kilmer should be mentioned more on this forum

[TJJackson]

You've granted that the 1st, 2nd, 4th, and one of the 7th round picks have all been solid contributors thus far. That's more than we got last year or the year previous this quickly.

Sounds to me like you're coming around, but you don't have the guts to swallow some pride and actually admit that the 2006 draft wasn't nearly as bad as you had originally claimed.

I've already admitted that this draft is not as bad as I originally thought it to be. Several times.

I was was OK with the pick of JJ, and he has been right on par with where he was selected. I panned the picks of Whitworth and Peko - not as much as te pick of the Slowman, but rarely have I been so furious about a individual pick as that one. I have been very forthright about admitting I was wrong about Whitworth and Peko, albeit Peko hasn't shown me much (even keepign in mind he is not a full time player) in the REGULAR season thus far.

So, bottom line: you're right that I am coming around to this draft (keep in mind I hate the Frostee pick as much as I did the day of the draft still, as I do with the Nicholson pick as well), but wrong that I haven't already written about it

[TJJackson]

You are just plain Ignorant.

Coming from you, a high compliment. Thanks :-)

You wanted TE Fasano in 2nd rd instead of Whitworth LOL Fasano? who cares if he is on some midseason list? His stats..7 games 10 rec / 82yards / 0 TD's (so now you say whitworth was an OK pick, with your tail between your legs)

I fail to see how my tail is between my legs, but if that's your term for a man who admits to being wrong about something, so be it.

I made no claim that I'd rather have Fasano over Whitworth based on what I know now. Please re-read what I wrote. Wat I did say is that I was very pro-fasano, and here he is on a midseason all rookie team. That's not the same at all as saying I'd prefer Fasano over Whitworth, having seen what he can do now.

You condemn Rucker when you havent even seen him play....when you finally do, you'll probably take back what you are saying(once again, tail between your legs)

Sounds like you have trouble admitting when you are wrong....ie all this tail between your leg imagery. I don't have that problem. I pity you for your inability in this area.

I have seen Rucker play, and he sucks. He's also another questionable-character type that we need to see far fewer of on this team. He might have been ok as our second 7th round selection, but not at 3.

You knock Brazell, when he played pretty damn good in preseason, saying "he is still a WR Should have taken a TE or a defender"

Thats not a knock on Brazell at all. Please re-read what I wrote. It is saying you can only have so many receivers on a team, and we had other needs. The knock is on whoever is/was making the draft day decisions.

How many Te's or defenders do you see drafted in the 7th round that contibute? WR's can...if you doubt that, look no further than our own roster and TJ Houshmandzadeh (7th rd '01)

The actual truth of the matter is that any player in any round has the chance to contribute, and there have been plenty of actual susperstar players drafted late (Tom Brady, Terrell Davis) and the probable rookie of the year this year was a 7th rounder as well. Every round has to be treated as another opportunity to improve your team. No pick should be thrown away.

You knocked the pick of Peko, then took that back(again, with your tail between your legs)

More pity to you

I'm just curious, so I'll ask.....Did you (with your extremely POOR judge of talent) by any chance work for the Bengals as a consultant for the draft for any part of the 1990's ? because that would explain some of the terrible drafts they USED to have. Get a job, earn some money, then MAYBE you can BUY a clue.....

Nope.

TJ, you've always seemed like a slow learner, but who would guess that you're a full year behind?

Naw

You can't include a supplemental pick to evaluate the quality of the draft that same year.

You evaluate the picks made in April.

I will include Brooks when I evaluate the picks in 2007. For purposes of draft evaluation only, he counts against the 2007 draft.

I don't know why this is such a difficult concept for some of you to grasp

Now there's someone who hasn't been praised enough. Not only is he the best gunner on the team, he's our best special teamer, TJ.(And's it not even close). Constantly the first man down on punt team, so fast the second man is way behind.

Good call TDB, Kilmer should be mentioned more on this forum

Before his injury, I'd say Tab was the best special teamer.

The guy who has really impressed me so far on special teams is Herana-Daze Jones.

Kilmer has been good, but I don't think he has been the best. I looked to see if I could find some special teams stats, but couldn't find any.

[HairOnFire]

Why is everyone saying that Brooks should be considered for next year's draft because that's when we

lose the third round pick we expended on him?

It's deliberate stupidity. Ahmad Brooks will never be part of next years draft class, and it's silly to make that argument just because he was part of THIS years supplemental draft.

The fact that the so called bill for drafting Brooks won't have to be paid until a much later date is nothing more than a bookkeeping matter. Or if you prefer, a curiosity that turned out to be a big advantage for the Bengals THIS season. Because by the time next years 3rd round pick will be missed Brooks will already have one full season, including a full preseason, under his belt. And that experience will be critical for a player who has been described as equally brilliant and raw. In addition, that experience will go a long way towards determining Odell Thurman's future with this team.

To argue that Ahamad Brooks wasn't part of this years draft class simply because a late 3rd round draft pick won't have to be surrendered until nearly a year later is nothing more than a blatant attempt to muddy the water and thereby strengthen a tired character/distraction rant that was pitifully weak to begin with.

Let's not forget that the addition of Ahmad Brooks was often considered the last straw in the debate over the character of this seasons draft picks. So how can the character cranks repeatedly include him in their silly attack on this seasons draft class, yet argue now that he's not actually a member of that group?

It's got to be deliberate stupidity, right?

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Why is everyone "stupid" or a "dumb a$$" lately Hair, if they disagree with you? Get over it man! (although I agree on Brooks to an extent because he's playing "this year" and doing rather well now IMO)

If the terrible drafts of 04-05 were good ones, they wouldn't be 4-4 right now - period. (at least 9 players have missed entire seasons or are no longer with the team or serving a suspension or been suspended from those drafts - that's more than an entire class). Spin it any way you want but those drafts did not work out at all. Now if Odell and Pollack somehow make it back next year and perform that all changes a bit, and if Henry rights his ship long term...but that's a stretch right now.

This year's draft was good - no real problems with it here. String together a few like that and they'll be set. Doesn't seem to happen often around here though.

[HairOnFire]

I have seen Rucker play, and he sucks. He's also another questionable-character type that we need to see far fewer of on this team. He might have been ok as our second 7th round selection, but not at 3.

I'm confused by the way you stick to your guns in one tiny portion of your post, and in several others willingly admit how horribly wrong you've been. Are you assuming that your willingness to admit how often your opinions are clueless somehow strengthens your credibility on the remaining issues whose outcomes can't be determined yet?

Frankly, the only reason your opinion about Rucker can't be concluded to be pure idiotic folly is his unfortunate inability to play a single down this season. The moment that fact changes the quicker your opinion about him will be unmasked as the ravings of an unlovable fugtard....giving you yet another opportunity to brag about your willingness to admit your past mistakes.

Why not hold your tounge until your brain engages?

[TJJackson]

the only reason your opinion about Rucker can't be concluded to be pure idiotic folly is his unfortunate inability to play a single down this season.

To repeat

I have seen Rucker play, and he sucks.

The fact that he is injured, and is a poor character type, and that we could have got him in the 7th or possibly even as a free agent also contribute heavily to my assessment.

Why not hold your tounge until your brain engages?

*laff* It's engaged. You need to read my posts more closely.

[HairOnFire]

The fact that he is injured, and is a poor character type, and that we could have got him in the 7th or possibly even as a free agent also contribute heavily to my assessment.

And based upon the assessment of Marvin Lewis he was considered worthy of late 3rd round draft consideration, a justifiable conclusion that, if your own history is a judge...you'll slowly come to grips with a year or two from now.

Or if you prefer, a moment after it's obvious to everyone else.

[HairOnFire]

Why is everyone "stupid" or a "dumb a$$" lately Hair, if they disagree with you? Get over it man! (although I agree on Brooks to an extent because he's playing "this year" and doing rather well now IMO)

Please don't agree with me in the same sentence you're attempting to attack me. It confuses the kids.