Cap Space

[derekshank]

We have a ton of guys whose contracts expire this year. By the time they are all either re-signed, or replaced, our cap space might be tighter than we expected. We're going to need to continue drafting guys that make immediate impacts (i.e. Joseph, Whitworth, Peko) to continue improving this team.

Contracts currently set to expire after this season:

QB - Anthony Wright, Doug Johnson

RB - Kenny Watson

WR - Kelley Washington

TE - Reggie Kelly, Tony Stewart

OL - Eric Steinbach, Rich Braham, Stacy Andrews, Scott Kooistra

DB - Tory James, Kevin Kaesviharn, Greg Brooks, Anthony Mitchell, Rashad Bauman

LB - Landon Johnson, Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins

DL - Justin Smith, Robert Geathers, Shaun Smith

ST - Kyle Larson

That's a whole hell of a lot.

Guys that we must re-sign: Wright, Braham, J. Smith, Geathers, and Landon. Kelly is up there too... but we could probably go after Daniel Graham in his place if we so desired.

Guys I think we have to let go: Tory James, Steiny, and probably Kelley Washington (depending on Henry's status). Other than that, I feel like we should at least try to re-sign almost all of these guys.

There is a whole ton of depth that we would lose if we don't get most of those guys re-signed. The front office is going to have to be busy this off-season... and I'd like to see us go ahead and get started by re-signing Justin before this season is over.

[BengalByTheBay]

Guys that we must re-sign: Wright, Braham, J. Smith, Geathers, and Landon. Kelly is up there too... but we could probably go after Daniel Graham in his place if we so desired.

Guys I think we have to let go: Tory James, Steiny, and probably Kelley Washington (depending on Henry's status). Other than that, I feel like we should at least try to re-sign almost all of these guys.

There is a whole ton of depth that we would lose if we don't get most of those guys re-signed. The front office is going to have to be busy this off-season... and I'd like to see us go ahead and get started by re-signing Justin before this season is over.

KEEPERS: I don't agree on Wright -- he was a stop-gap that we ended up not needing. I think we draft a back-up in later rounds or see what Erik Meyer can do. Braham might retire. J. Smith.....nah, not going to get into that one. I like Geathers and LJ because I think that they can be resigned at a reasonable level. Kelly.....no way -- time to finally draft a TE.

I would more favor keeping Steinbach than any of the above.

LOSERS: T. James should be expendable after this season. We could resign him as a nickle if he doesn't get too much other interest, but he probably will be too expensive for productivity. Steiny (see above). KWash - I agree will most likely be left to get what he can where he can. Henry will be back as will Tab and we always draft at WR.

I actually think we're better off going into the next offseason than we were going into the last one.

[HoosierCat]

QB - Anthony Wright, Doug Johnson

RB - Kenny Watson

WR - Kelley Washington

TE - Reggie Kelly, Tony Stewart

OL - Eric Steinbach, Rich Braham, Stacy Andrews, Scott Kooistra

DB - Tory James, Kevin Kaesviharn, Greg Brooks, Anthony Mitchell, Rashad Bauman

LB - Landon Johnson, Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins

DL - Justin Smith, Robert Geathers, Shaun Smith

ST - Kyle Larson

That's a whole hell of a lot.

Ehhhh...yeah, it's a lot. I dunno about the "whole hell of" part.

Obviously you re-sign Larson but that won't cost much.

On the offense, yeah, there are some guys I would want...but really, outside of Steiny who will draw much interest? Washington will likely get some nibbles, but I doubt at anything higher than No. 3 WR money.

On defense...same deal. Outside of Justin they are all backups, special teamers and role players. Not that that makes them unimportant, I would hate to lose Landon or Geathers, for example but none of them ought to be big-money, hard-ro-re-sign guys.

No worries. It'll get done and we'll have plenty of space to do it.

[derekshank]

No worries. It'll get done and we'll have plenty of space to do it.

You're probably right. Especially since Tory James gone will save us almost $5 Mil. But there will still be a good number of signing bonuses, and guys like Landon and Geathers who have proven their worth will most likely get pretty big raises.

[TJJackson]

Where exactly do you pull the official data on when contracts expire?

(not doubting you, just curious)

[derekshank]

Where exactly do you pull the official data on when contracts expire?

(not doubting you, just curious)

Hoosier showed me this site.

http://cap.go-bengals.com/

It hasn't updated since August 8th, so Willie's contract isn't the new one yet, and Askew is still on there, but the rest of it seems pretty accurate.

[BengalPimp]

On defense...same deal. Outside of Justin they are all backups, special teamers and role players. Not that that makes them unimportant, I would hate to lose Landon or Geathers, for example but none of them ought to be big-money, hard-ro-re-sign guys.

No worries. It'll get done and we'll have plenty of space to do it.

Uh, we already know Steinbach, and Smith think they are worth more money than they really are(or at least their agents do) of course we would want to keep them, but honestly not at the Price they want(they want waaaaaay too much) What they should do, if they're smart, is Lock-up Geathers, because they will lose Smith because of $$$ and Geathers is the only other Pass-Rusher and sign Geathers TODAY, because I GUARANTEE he will cost Too much at the end of the season......let's see 6'3" 265lb DE with 5 sacks in the first 5 games(and this next one is the key) WHO IS ONLY 23 YEARS OLD, NOT EVEN CLOSE TO HIS PRIME YET

[HoosierCat]

Uh, we already know Steinbach, and Smith think they are worth more money than they really are(or at least their agents do) of course we would want to keep them, but honestly not at the Price they want(they want waaaaaay too much) What they should do, if they're smart, is Lock-up Geathers, because they will lose Smith because of $$$ and Geathers is the only other Pass-Rusher and sign Geathers TODAY, because I GUARANTEE he will cost Too much at the end of the season......let's see 6'3" 265lb DE with 5 sacks in the first 5 games(and this next one is the key) WHO IS ONLY 23 YEARS OLD, NOT EVEN CLOSE TO HIS PRIME YET

OK, to take a few points here one at a time:

a. Steiny IMHO is worth every penny of the $5 million/year he is reportedly asking. The real questionable decision was paying Willie Anderson. I love the guy, but he's on the downside of his career, and we have not one, not two, but three legit RTs in Kooistra, Whitworth and (possibly) Andrews. If I had to pick between Steinbach and Justin I would take Steinbach, but it would be a hard choice.

b. Justin Smith takes a lot of crap from fans, but go show me a FA every-down DE who is solid vs. the run and gets you 8 or so sacks a year to boot. Go ahead. Show me. You aren't going to find one who won't run you $5 million-plus a year. He's a solid player and if they are going to let Steinbach go, which seems likely, he is a must re-sign.

c. Geathers is a pass-rushing DE, nothing more. He was placed in the starters' role last year after Duane Clemons imploded, bulked up for the job, and as a result could neither stop the run nor rush the passer. He will not attract big bucks. He is, however, worth keeping. He'll get a nice payday.

[derekshank]

Uh, we already know Steinbach, and Smith think they are worth more money than they really are(or at least their agents do) of course we would want to keep them, but honestly not at the Price they want(they want waaaaaay too much) What they should do, if they're smart, is Lock-up Geathers, because they will lose Smith because of $$$ and Geathers is the only other Pass-Rusher and sign Geathers TODAY, because I GUARANTEE he will cost Too much at the end of the season......let's see 6'3" 265lb DE with 5 sacks in the first 5 games(and this next one is the key) WHO IS ONLY 23 YEARS OLD, NOT EVEN CLOSE TO HIS PRIME YET

OK, to take a few points here one at a time:

a. Steiny IMHO is worth every penny of the $5 million/year he is reportedly asking. The real questionable decision was paying Willie Anderson. I love the guy, but he's on the downside of his career, and we have not one, not two, but three legit RTs in Kooistra, Whitworth and (possibly) Andrews. If I had to pick between Steinbach and Justin I would take Steinbach, but it would be a hard choice.

b. Justin Smith takes a lot of crap from fans, but go show me a FA every-down DE who is solid vs. the run and gets you 8 or so sacks a year to boot. Go ahead. Show me. You aren't going to find one who won't run you $5 million-plus a year. He's a solid player and if they are going to let Steinbach go, which seems likely, he is a must re-sign.

c. Geathers is a pass-rushing DE, nothing more. He was placed in the starters' role last year after Duane Clemons imploded, bulked up for the job, and as a result could neither stop the run nor rush the passer. He will not attract big bucks. He is, however, worth keeping. He'll get a nice payday.

Amen on points b and c (especially the Justin Smith one)... and hey, 2 out of 3 ain't bad.

I could agree that Steiny would be worth every penny had we not drafted Whitworth, but we did, so I can't justify continuing to spend money disproportionately on the offense.

As for Willie, Is he getting older? Sure... but O-Linemen hold up a lot longer than they used to. In 4 or 5 years I'm sure that Steiny will be playing at a higher level than Willie, but it's harder to find suitable Tackles than Guards in this league... and Willie is perhaps the best locker-room presence on this team. We couldn't let him go.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Other than Steiny and Justin I don't think they'll have a problem re-signing the people they want to keep.

Most of those guys are bit players and easily replaced.

[jditty47]

QB - Anthony Wright, Doug Johnson

RB - Kenny Watson

WR - Kelley Washington

TE - Reggie Kelly, Tony Stewart

OL - Eric Steinbach, Rich Braham, Stacy Andrews, Scott Kooistra

DB - Tory James, Kevin Kaesviharn, Greg Brooks, Anthony Mitchell, Rashad Bauman

LB - Landon Johnson, Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins

DL - Justin Smith, Robert Geathers, Shaun Smith

ST - Kyle Larson

Wright and Johnson can go, wright might possibly be resigned, not sure if mcneal is going to continue to be a QB project or if they'll draft one within the next 2 years.

kenny watson - once again it depends on chris perrys health in the offseason. but i would like him resigned, or draft a 3rd running back, wilson isnt the answer i dont think - mb hes the option though never know.

kelley washington, everyone can see the writing on the wall here, hes not coming back.

now here is a big ? mark. i am sure we will resign either kelley or stewart. either we draft one finally or actually go after one in free agency. depending the quality of one that we get the other will be resigned. otherwise if we sign a starter, stewart is back, sign a back up, kelly is back. i could also see us resigning both and still getting another one. we usually carry 3, this year we have just 2. PLZ SAY THIS IS THE OFFSEASON WE GET ATLEAST A DESCENT TE EITHER IN THE DRAFT OR FREE AGENCY. i really dont see how they couldnt....

now to the line. braham i say if he wants another year, give him it. steinbach i really dont see sticking around. hes gonna get some good money and look at the seahawks and hutchinson, a gaurd doesnt make you a team, atleast not with our Tackles and offense. i want kooistra back as depth next year, enuff said. as far as andrews, we'll see if the project was a bust or not. either hes depth, or fodder.

now to the defense...

look, im as big of a james fan as anyone. and i wouldnt mind spending the money to resign him. but, it is really hard seeing that happen with jj playing solid and oneal still doing what he does. i dont like ratliff that much and id rather have james there next year with jj and oneal than ratliff, jj and oneal on nickle downs. is 3-4 mill a year worth it for james at this point in his career after all hes done for us the last 2 years? lets wait and make that judgment at the end of the season, alot of games to be played where he can make a difference one way or the other. as for bauman and mitchell - probably gone. kk - probably will get resigned, but i also can see him finally gaining some value in the market. brooks hasnt shown me anything yet, he has the remainder of the season to earn that chance next year.

johnson and miller need to be resigned at LB. wilkins can go. both are good depth, not sure if they'll resign miller though - does he still fit in when odell and pollack come back next year? johnson is a for sure resigning, unless someone offers a rediculous contract to him.

justin needs to be resigned if you ask me. hes not flashy, but hes very solid. if what he wants isnt unreasonable, then do it. geathers is gonna garner alot of interest, it'll be hard to resign him.

we need to resign him, but im guessing we lose him. saun smith needs to show me something as well for the remainder of the season, or else i dont care if hes done as a bengal.

larson - im sure he'll be resigned.

[Kazkal]

Ones I wanna see us keep in order

1.)Justin Smith

-Screw all you haters letting him go is step backwords for our defense,we can still draft a good DE and put them on the otherside of justin...capwise justin isent gonna break the bank his cap hit would be small increase from this year.

2.)Landon Johnson -mybe not a starter but solid player back up all 3 postions + special teamer

3.)Kyle Larson -Actually with how hes punting this season should be 1# concern

4.Geathers- solid player

People I like to see brougt back because of depth

1.)Greg Brooks and Bauman

2.)Stacey and kooistra

3.)Kdub

-(just because I <3 him though I doubt we will minus henry getting booted from the team)

Free Agents we should bring in

Daniel Graham

-save drafting a balanced one for a proven vet who is exactly what we need at the postion....

[derekshank]

PS,derek forgot to mention larson who i'm almost 100% sure hes a FA .

Nope... I mentioned him.

[Kazkal]

Uh, we already know Steinbach, and Smith think they are worth more money than they really are

Why does justin or his agent think that? he wasen't approached like steinbach was who wants LT money

PS,derek forgot to mention larson who i'm almost 100% sure hes a FA .

Nope... I mentioned him.

my bad

[HairOnFire]

QB - Anthony Wright, Doug Johnson

RB - Kenny Watson

WR - Kelley Washington

TE - Reggie Kelly, Tony Stewart

OL - Eric Steinbach, Rich Braham, Stacy Andrews, Scott Kooistra

DB - Tory James, Kevin Kaesviharn, Greg Brooks, Anthony Mitchell, Rashad Bauman

LB - Landon Johnson, Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins

DL - Justin Smith, Robert Geathers, Shaun Smith

ST - Kyle Larson

My take...

QB - Wright didn't have many options prior to signing with the Bengals and one year later nothing will have changed. He'll probably happily resign for a modest deal. As for Johnson, I'm not a fan of his...never have been, and I think the Bengals are overdue in their search for a young QB who can fill the role of dedictaed backup.

RB - Watson is a valuable role player but he can be replaced fairly easily. After all, my sources tell me that NEXT YEAR is Chris Perry's breakout season. Then again, it always is....right?

WR - If they wanted to keep K-Dub longer than this season they would have offered a 2 year deal. Didn't happen....and they've already drafted his replacement in Brazell.

TE - (((Shrug))) For all of the annual talk about upgrading this position the Bengals can't seem to be bothered, and as a result I've lost almost all interest. Which is appropriate since neither Kelly or Stewart will generate much interest as free agents and both would be best served by signing new contracts with the Bengals. Granted, the Bengals SHOULD pursue a veteran upgrade, but.......(voice trails off)

DE - I'd absolutely love to see Justin Smith extended, but should that fail I'd be pretty happy locking down Geathers to a new long term deal. The difference in his play this season from last is staggering night and day stuff, and the thought of losing BOTH Smith and Geathers is a worst case scenario I don't want to consider for very long.

LB - A position that once seemed so full of promise and potential now resembles a train wreck, yet none of the potential free agents are critical pieces. Retaining Landon Johnson is the most important potential move to make, but it wouldn't be difficult to make the case that he should be replaced by a better veteran FA or a draft pick with more upside and size.

CB - Hey, I was in favor of dumping Tory James this offseason so how do you think I'll feel about him when the next one rolls around? As for K2, he's harder to kill than a cockroach and I wouldn't count him out. Bauman and Brooks seem like afterthoughts due to their history of being hurt more often than not.

ST - Larson must be retained. You can't spend that much time and energy waiting for a guy to get it and then cut him loose the moment he does.

[BengalPimp]

OK, to take a few points here one at a time:

a. Steiny IMHO is worth every penny of the $5 million/year he is reportedly asking. The real questionable decision was paying Willie Anderson. I love the guy, but he's on the downside of his career, and we have not one, not two, but three legit RTs in Kooistra, Whitworth and (possibly) Andrews. If I had to pick between Steinbach and Justin I would take Steinbach, but it would be a hard choice.

b. Justin Smith takes a lot of crap from fans, but go show me a FA every-down DE who is solid vs. the run and gets you 8 or so sacks a year to boot. Go ahead. Show me. You aren't going to find one who won't run you $5 million-plus a year. He's a solid player and if they are going to let Steinbach go, which seems likely, he is a must re-sign.

c. Geathers is a pass-rushing DE, nothing more. He was placed in the starters' role last year after Duane Clemons imploded, bulked up for the job, and as a result could neither stop the run nor rush the passer. He will not attract big bucks. He is, however, worth keeping. He'll get a nice payday.

Steinbach is a very good Guard, I like him a lot, however he is NOT a tackle, he can play it in a pinch, but not for an extended period of time. I'm not saying he doesnt deserve $5 mill/season, his agent was looking for over 6+ with a big bonus, and sorry, I have a problem(as do most teams) giving that type of pay to a Guard, when obviously the Tackle position is more Vital, as they are the main protectors of your QB...thats why the Bengals didnt want to lose Willie or Levi...for Carson's sake. Since they drafted Whitworth, he provides a much bigger more physical presence at guard for far less $$$ which will allow the team to re-sign other players.

Smith is very solid, and a very good all around DE, this I agree with, and keep him if the price is right, but considering that we get no pass-rush from our DT's and very little(if any) from our LB's I have to think that if they are able to get a better pass-rusher(maybe not as good all-around) in the draft, or free-agency for less $$$ they will.

Geathers is a pass-rushing DE, RIGHT NOW, but at 23yrs old and seeing that he came out early, he'll only get better against the run. YOU NEED PASS-RUSHERS to put pressure on opposing QB's, Dwight Freeney, Terrell Suggs, Jevom Kearse, etc. all stink vs. the run...but their main job is to rush the passer.

[schweinhart]

If Landon, Miller and Jumpy all signed 3 year deals in 2004, they'd be RFAs in 2007, right? So even if the Bengals don't do anything more than offer the minimum tender, they'd get 2 3rds and a 4th in the 2007 draft if other teams bid higher and the Bengals don't macth the contracts. Maybe Landon and Jumps are worth a 1st round tender, though, just to keep around because they have come in handy.

Steiny and Justin are really the problematic 2 for the team to consider. 1 of them probably gets franchised if extensions aren't forthcoming.

[HoosierCat]

Steinbach is a very good Guard, I like him a lot, however he is NOT a tackle, he can play it in a pinch, but not for an extended period of time. I'm not saying he doesnt deserve $5 mill/season, his agent was looking for over 6+ with a big bonus, and sorry, I have a problem(as do most teams) giving that type of pay to a Guard,

Well, you can argue money but I haven't seen where he's asking that much. However, the Bengals have invested huge bucks in one Carson Palmer, and keeping his butt off the ground seems a pretty big priority to me. For better or for worse, this is a team that has laid its bets on the offense, and Steiny was a steal as a 2nd round pick. Ya wanna whiz that away, fine, but be prepared for the consequences.

Geathers is a pass-rushing DE, RIGHT NOW, but at 23yrs old and seeing that he came out early, he'll only get better against the run. YOU NEED PASS-RUSHERS

Nobody said you didn't, but Geathers is what he is and he's never going to be a full-time DE. Not at 23, not at 26, not at 35. Keep him? Yeah, definitely. But he isn't Justin's replacement. Maybe..MAYBE...a certain Non-Dairy Dessert is...but if Justin walks expect a day 1 DE next April.