Surprise cuts. Part Deux

[KiLBurn]

Since it is getting closer to final cuts and since the existing thread was snuffed out by a server crash, I wanted everyones opinions on who the "Surprise" cut might be this year. Limit is 4 players.

My guesses in order of likelihood.

1. John Thornton - Yeah, he's a veteran but IMO he is overpaid and has not shown me s**t since he's been here.

2. Chris Perry - This guy has all the talent in the world. It's a shame he has vaginitis.

3. Rich Braham - No knock against his talent. We are just in a position where we have some young talent on the OL that might be worth keeping for the future, especially since Willie and Steinbach have yet to resign.

4. Brian Simmons - Again, this is not a knock on Simmons' talent, just that fact that he is making a hella lot more than some younger,very promising players.

[derekshank]

Given that Simmons is currently our starting MLB, and cutting him means playing either Brooks or Nicholson... neither of whom I want to see starting week 1, I think it would be silly to let him go.

Brooks will be a monster in time... but he's still pretty rusty. We need our defense to over-acheive early, and we can't afford another rookie MLB.

Also... I don't think a Thornton cut would be all that surprising. S. Smith played well last season, Peko has surprised, and Robinson can move back inside in a pinch. I am a fan of Thornton, but at some point, you've got to keep you're young guys around.

Picking up 30+ year old DT's as band-aids in this D-line is getting tiresome. I'd like to believe that S. Smith and Peko are the future starting DT's on this team.

[Kirkendall]

OK, I don't think there's going to be a carnage of surprise cuts. Chris Perry, to me, is the most likely candidate, but that's very unlikely from happening.

- But I want to rebutt John Thornton.

Consider;

1. Thornton said in the off-season he won't be back in response to a Mathias Askew question. Askew didn't turn out and dumping Thornton would KILL our depth.

I'd be really really surprised that Adams plays 30-40% of the downs. Peko, I agree, has looked good. But I have no idea how he'll do compared to our regular guys against offensive starters in relevent games. Smith? Nah. I think he's a servicable backup, but that's it. Nothing to write home about. When he didn't make the play, he was WAY out of the way. We're on a Super Bowl run and I think dumping Thornton now would be costly. I see what you're saying Derek, but not now. We're winning the Super Bowl with the boys we got.

2. If my calculations are correct, Thornton still has a lot of money owed to him. It was be finanically irresponsible to dump him now. If my caluations are correct -- I'm doing this on a whim -- we'd be penalized $2.5 million -- either split in multiple seasons or in one single season. The same, I believe, would apply to Simmons.

MORE...

- Rich Braham? Negative. There's no indictation Eric nor Ben could take over. After all, we signed him to a two-year deal before the 2005 season and he's STILL projected as the starter? That doesn't bode well for the questionable-durability backups.

- Dumping Brooks would be bad too. After all, we gave up next year's third round pick for the guy.

[Stripes]

I doubt anyone you listed gets cut. Braham and Simmons are locks to make the team. Aside maybe (and it's a big maybe) from Bryan Robinson... I don't think any of last year's starters are going to be cut.

[Kirkendall]

I doubt anyone you listed gets cut. Braham and Simmons are locks to make the team. Aside maybe (and it's a big maybe) from Bryan Robinson... I don't think any of last year's starters are going to be cut.

I thought that too! But that changed seeing how quickly Robinson was getting to the QB. I will make a bet with anyone on this board that no projected starters get cut. I just don't think the team will do something that radical this late into the pre-season. If we saw one of them not starting, but playing while completely healthy? Yea, that's different. But we're not seeing that.

[MacD BengalFan]

I think that Chris Perry will be cut. He has yet to complete a season without missing significant playing time during the regular season and is missing practice time as well as preseason games. Dee Dee Dorsey is making some noise when given a chance and Kenny Watson is doing whatever he can to gain a roster spot by losing weight and playing very well in the preseason. I think that Chris will be cut on the last cut down day because he cannot get healthy and missed to much practice and playing time.

[BlainThePain]

I think that Chris Perry will be cut. He has yet to complete a season without missing significant playing time during the regular season and is missing practice time as well as preseason games. Dee Dee Dorsey is making some noise when given a chance and Kenny Watson is doing whatever he can to gain a roster spot by losing weight and playing very well in the preseason. I think that Chris will be cut on the last cut down day because he cannot get healthy and missed to much practice and playing time.

Why cut him when you can PUP him for a while and then see what's best for the team?

[KiLBurn]

^^^ It just struck me that I need to go to Germany for my next vacation.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I doubt anyone you listed gets cut. Braham and Simmons are locks to make the team. Aside maybe (and it's a big maybe) from Bryan Robinson... I don't think any of last year's starters are going to be cut.

I thought that too! But that changed seeing how quickly Robinson was getting to the QB. I will make a bet with anyone on this board that no projected starters get cut. I just don't think the team will do something that radical this late into the pre-season. If we saw one of them not starting, but playing while completely healthy? Yea, that's different. But we're not seeing that.

Robinson goes nowhere after that game. He can play either DT or DE capably. I'm pretty sure you're right about your bet, but it might be closer if Odell hadn't got suspended, and the possibility of starting Landon over Simmons were possible. Still don't think it would happen though.

As far as Perry...can we have the 2004 #1 pick back? Please?

[ArmyBengal]

The thread was lost and there I thought I wouldn't have to relive this thread all over talking about how the Bengals should cut their first round pick from two years ago. Who also, if he regains his health, makes this offense even more potent with a receiving back with speed coming out of the backfield. I know the whole health thing is in question, but McNeal has a better chance of getting cut than C. Perry in my mind. Look at the depth at the two positions as well... Crazy...

WHODEY !!!

[rishipatel]

I doubt anyone you listed gets cut. Braham and Simmons are locks to make the team. Aside maybe (and it's a big maybe) from Bryan Robinson... I don't think any of last year's starters are going to be cut.

I thought that too! But that changed seeing how quickly Robinson was getting to the QB. I will make a bet with anyone on this board that no projected starters get cut. I just don't think the team will do something that radical this late into the pre-season. If we saw one of them not starting, but playing while completely healthy? Yea, that's different. But we're not seeing that.

Yeah, this is dead on. No way any of these guys get cut. Too valuable as veteran presences in the locker room, which the team needs. And as Kirk mentioned before, it wouldn't be financially prudent.

And Chris Perry? Come on...they're not gonna cut him when they can PUP him, especially given the upside if he can stay healthy. He almost broke the Bengals RB reception record in a season last yr. And not when his current health issues are in part due to the Bengals medical staff missing the diagnosis. Don't get me wrong, I hated Perry as a college player since he played for Michigan, but I've always supported him as a Bengal.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I think it's quite possible all 4 of those players will be gone "after" this season.

[ArmyBengal]

Yep, "after" THIS season, it's going to be on !!! Another draft will spell the end of many players we have grown accustomed to over the past few years IMO...

WHODEY !!!

[Kazkal]

- Dumping Brooks would be bad too. After all, we gave up next year's third round pick for the guy.

Who said anything about dumping brooks if they did they ment greg....h8 for anyone who says fanene he will make the team

[HoTbOy]

If anyone gets cut I think it would be JThorton, the way the young DT's have been playing, it is too late for any significant player to be cut....CPerry is a candidate for the reason many of you have stated...the RB's we have now are doing a good job, as much as I like CPerry he can't stay on the field...

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

The thread was lost and there I thought I wouldn't have to relive this thread all over talking about how the Bengals should cut their first round pick from two years ago. Who also, if he regains his health, makes this offense even more potent with a receiving back with speed coming out of the backfield. I know the whole health thing is in question, but McNeal has a better chance of getting cut than C. Perry in my mind. Look at the depth at the two positions as well... Crazy...

WHODEY !!!

The key there is the word "if". He's never healthy. Also, he's a running back who can't actually, you know, run the ball. So basically, they blew a #1 pick on a 4th WR. So yeah, give me back the 2004 #1 and I'll get something more worthwhile than that.

[TJJackson]

I am thinking that barring injury or trade (which changes everything) there will be a surprise cut on the OL

One of the following, and in no particular order

Braham, Wilkerson, Ghiaciuc, Andrews or Kooistra

A suprise because they are all good and/or high potential lineman, but you can only keep so many OL's

if Braham, it'll be age and salary plus emergence of Wilkerson or Ghiaciuc

if Wilkerson, it'll be that they decided his knee will not hold up

if Ghiaciuc, it'll be because they've decided to devote full time attention to Wilkerson plus Braham is showing them something durability wise i don't otherwise know about

if Andrews, they've simply decided that the project has gone on long enough and Kooistra (who is young also) and/or Whitworth is the better heir apparent.

if Kooistra (which would be my least favorite cut of this group) then Andrews and Whitworth must have wowed them bigtime, as Kooistra is at that perfect plateau of experience, youth, and proven production as a backup. This despite Kooistra's relatively low salary.

[ArmyBengal]

The thread was lost and there I thought I wouldn't have to relive this thread all over talking about how the Bengals should cut their first round pick from two years ago. Who also, if he regains his health, makes this offense even more potent with a receiving back with speed coming out of the backfield. I know the whole health thing is in question, but McNeal has a better chance of getting cut than C. Perry in my mind. Look at the depth at the two positions as well... Crazy...

WHODEY !!!

The key there is the word "if". He's never healthy. Also, he's a running back who can't actually, you know, run the ball. So basically, they blew a #1 pick on a 4th WR. So yeah, give me back the 2004 #1 and I'll get something more worthwhile than that.

That's exactly why I used the word "if"... It's a big if at this point, but to say he can't run the ball is not quite accurate either. I'm not defending the C. Perry pick at all (I hated it), but to say the guy can't run just because he hasn't been on the field due to injuries is a little unfair. He's more than a 4th WR and, AGAIN, "when healthy" adds a huge dimension to our offense. There is no denying what a healthy C. Perry does for this offense... I for one just wish we saw more of it !!!

WHODEY !!!

[derekshank]

Consider;

1. Thornton said in the off-season he won't be back in response to a Mathias Askew question. Askew didn't turn out and dumping Thornton would KILL our depth.

I'd be really really surprised that Adams plays 30-40% of the downs. Peko, I agree, has looked good. But I have no idea how he'll do compared to our regular guys against offensive starters in relevent games. Smith? Nah. I think he's a servicable backup, but that's it. Nothing to write home about. When he didn't make the play, he was WAY out of the way. We're on a Super Bowl run and I think dumping Thornton now would be costly. I see what you're saying Derek, but not now. We're winning the Super Bowl with the boys we got.

2. If my calculations are correct, Thornton still has a lot of money owed to him. It was be finanically irresponsible to dump him now. If my caluations are correct -- I'm doing this on a whim -- we'd be penalized $2.5 million -- either split in multiple seasons or in one single season.

You might be right about the money issue... but I disagree about the depth issue. If we are going to cut a D-Lineman, and we're going to have to at some point, I'd rather keep the young guys.

Peko has played well enough to indicate that he wouldn't get steamrolled aginst starters, so I wouldn't guess he'd be a big downgrade from Thornton. Also, even if Sam Adams doesn't play all the time, Bryan Robinson and Rucker are guys who are likely to play DT on passing downs.

We also have S. Smith who has proven himself capable at a smaller price tag... and we can always start Robinson at DT and start Geathers at DE again if there are injury problems. I just don't see how losing THornton kills our depth at all. He might stay... but it won't hurt us much if we cut him.

[bengalboomer7]

I haven't been a supporter of Thornton and I think I said cut him in another thread, but I've changed my mind because of his experience and value. Shaun Smith is servicable, I've never seen what Peko can do against first team O lineman, Robinson seems much more suited at DE, and I don't like Geathers or Rucker on the inside. We have no gametape on Fanene, except one nice play against Pitt, and Sam Adams has yet to actually put on a bengals uni.

Now, after this year is over, I EXPECT him gone.

[derekshank]

I definetly prefer Thornton to stay this year. I want the best possible team on the field THIS YEAR... and I think aside from Adams, Thornton is our best starter. However, I don't want to sacrifice the future for today either.

So I guess my argument is that I wouldn't be surprised if he was cut... as the title of this thread is "surprise cuts," but I definetly don't want to see him go right now.

I'd much rather cut Fanene right now... and don't understand what everyone else sees in him right now. We've seen him in a whole 2 plays in his NFL career. I don't understand why he's so loved around here.

[Kirkendall]

I'd much rather cut Fanene right now... and don't understand what everyone else sees in him right now. We've seen him in a whole 2 plays in his NFL career. I don't understand why he's so loved around here.

During Pittsburgh II (the one we won 38-31): 1st and 10, on Pittsburgh's 38 yard line, Fanene drops Willie Parker in the second quarter for a four-yard loss. Next play, Big Ben is ripped by Fanene setting up a 3rd-and-14.

You know, that's the best I could come up with. I have no idea.

[ArmyBengal]

I'd much rather cut Fanene right now... and don't understand what everyone else sees in him right now. We've seen him in a whole 2 plays in his NFL career. I don't understand why he's so loved around here.

During Pittsburgh II (the one we won 38-31): 1st and 10, on Pittsburgh's 38 yard line, Fanene drops Willie Parker in the second quarter for a four-yard loss. Next play, Big Ben is ripped by Fanene setting up a 3rd-and-14.

You know, that's the best I could come up with. I have no idea.

The best I can come up with in the whole Fanene thing is he made those plays against the Steelers... It's sort of like the Ohio State football coach that never gets to a bowl game, but manages big wins over the hated Meat-Chicken. He's going to be loved...

WHODEY !!!

[Kirkendall]

I just think Fanese had a game that developed a sense of optimism. I'm guilty of the same thing.. see a flash of "holy crap" moments that remains a sense of optimism for awhile afterwards. Everyone has their guys that others think, "what the hell!". Personally, I think "what the hell" with Fanene.

[Stripes]

He'll have a pretty tall order before him in beating out Eric Henderson... And I don't think he will.