Is Marvin Loosing the Team?

[Dadraftnick]

POSTED 9:22 a.m. EDT; UPDATED 10:16 a.m. EDT, July 25, 2006

LEWIS LOSING HIS TEAM?

A source close to one of the members of the Cincinnati Bengals who doesn't have a criminal record tells us that the locker room in the Queen City is dangerously close to revolting against head coach Marvin Lewis based on his collection and coddling of players with questionable backgrounds.

And the source says that the growing resentment traces to (you guessed it) the locker room brouhaha involving receiver Chad Johnson, receivers coach Hue Jackson, and Lewis, which erupted moments before the team took the field for the second half of the playoff game against the Steelers.

Though Johnson has yet to be arrested, the perception within the team was and is that he does his own thing and gets his own way and Lewis lets him. It's a dangerous message to send to the guys to whom a different set of rules apply.

The offseason has only exacerbated the situation, per the source. With the addition of guys like Frostee Rucker, A.J. Nicholson, and Ahmad Brooks and the continuing problems of guys like Chris Henry and Odell Thurman, many of the non-turds on the team are convinced that Lewis doesn't care about character.

As a result, we still think that Lewis needs to stand up and take decisive action against one of the guys who has done things that he shouldn't have done. Instead, recent comments from Marvin indicate that, like a mom who's convinced that her baby would "never do something like that," the head coach will never acknowledge the possibility that one of his players might really and truly be a piece of poop.

Asked by Mark Curnutte of the Cincinnati Enquirer whether Henry is worth the trouble Lewis said, "It's not clear . . . let's see what trouble he is in. Don't prejudge him. You can't prejudge him."

But it's not "prejudging" if the concern is Henry's propensity for getting himself into the back seat of a cruiser. He's accomplished that feat four times since December. Regardless of whether he's ultimately convicted or pleads guilty to any of the charges, a guy who continuously gets arrested is a problem.

Still, teams like the Bengals hide behind concepts such as "presumption of innocence" as a means for overlooking the fact that, at a minimum, men like Henry put themselves in the wrong place at too many wrong times. Whether he goes to jail is a matter between Henry and the various jurisdictions in which criminal charges are pending. Whether his employer, which among other things should be concerned about the public perception of its product, is going to tolerate a string of arrests is a different issue.

So by declining to prejudge the question of whether Henry is actually guilty, Lewis and the Bengals implicitly are conceding that they don't care about guys getting arrested.

And if they don't care about guys getting arrested, they don't care about character.

And if (as we're now told) the guys who don't get arrested four times in six months don't like it, there will be problems in 2006, and beyond.

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While I do not think that Marvin is loosing the team,I have a a couple of questions when I see something like this.

I dont know where this guy gets all of his INSIDE INFO on the Bengals but, I wonder if John Thornton is not where it comes from.Thornton has done interviews with the writer at pro football talk and put them in his site.Thornton has had a link to Profootballtalk.com on both of his sites.

I do think that bad character guys have had a habit of undermining coaches,teams and organizations.

Also, it gets to the guys that character when they see things like we have seen out of Henry and they wonder why it is put up with.

[jjakq27]

Why do we continue to listen to anything from this site? We'll find out soon enough if he has or not.

[Stripes]

Completely over-dramaticized crap.

[GregCook]

This guy is right! Lewis is such an oaf that even his top talent is not re-upping. Oh. wait.

I'm halluncinating.

Levi Jones just decided to play out his career in Cincy. With Marvin. And Chad. And Hue.

Grief. Lewis just presents Cincy with its first division championship and people still are deranged. Would they rather have Dave Shula back? No? Ok, how about Dick LeBeau? Quit time please.

In fact, I'd suggest Draft man just pull up a Strohs and enjoy the fine girl I'm including with my advise.

[HoosierCat]

Why do we continue to listen to anything from this site?

Mostly because Florio appears to have decent sources regarding the Bengals, even if he does tend to overdramatize things. And would it be so surprising if there are some locker room grumbles? I think it would be more surprising if there weren't.

We've logged a lot of posts on this board over the last couple of years talking about how important it was for Lewis to get everyone on the same page, to get players to buy in to his program, to -- in short -- build a team. The toxic nature of the locker room was a big reason for the Long Dark of the 90s. Things are obviously not near that level yet, but there's potential here for some of Lewis' good work to come unraveled.

My concern isn't that I don't think Lewis can't hande that challenge, but more than it was one he and his staff didn't need. With the roster flushing of his first two seasons, this backroom crap was suppposed to be behind us and the focus on the field. Well, we still haven't fixed all the problems on the field and now time and attention is getting dragged back into the locker room. Hopefully, it all evaporates as we get into the season.

[redsbengalsbucks]

The biggest character issue I see here is the player that is willing to whine to the press about this problem instead of going to the coach. Find the leak and deal with him now!

I have no prblem waiting to see how much trouble theses guys are actually in before releasing them for "performance reasons".

Get over this issue, it is really getting old hearing some of these so called lifelong Bengals fans freak out about a few legal problems from backup players that can easily be replaced.

[bengalboomer7]

Why do we continue to listen to anything from this site? We'll find out soon enough if he has or not.

Uhhh, because he's been right......a lot. The first guy to report the Odell suspension. The guy that brought the locker room fiasco to light. First guy to report on Henry, first to report we denied ourselves info regarding Rucker. Whether you like him or not, his record speaks for itself.

I'm just as much a homer as anybody, but just because someone rights an unflattering piece on our team we shouldn't automatically dismiss is and call the guy a dumbass

[HairOnFire]

Everytime I read an article by Florio I'm reminded of the Shelly character from South Park.

"Livin' in a world with TURDS"

[richmond_mat]

WHAT CAN COACH DO TO THESE KNUCKLEHEADS?

the nflpa prevents him from doing anything except waiting for the legal process to run its course. This era of presumed guilt is annoying. All you need is a disgruntled ho and charges can be filed.

I want footballers on the team not choir boys.

If I were MB I'd think about trading Chad. His value is high and the team may not suffer too much without him.

I'm going to take heat for that

[jjakq27]

Why do we continue to listen to anything from this site? We'll find out soon enough if he has or not.

Uhhh, because he's been right......a lot. The first guy to report the Odell suspension. The guy that brought the locker room fiasco to light. First guy to report on Henry, first to report we denied ourselves info regarding Rucker. Whether you like him or not, his record speaks for itself.

I'm just as much a homer as anybody, but just because someone rights an unflattering piece on our team we shouldn't automatically dismiss is and call the guy a dumbass

I hope you are not trying to put words in my mouth.

[bengalboomer7]

Why do we continue to listen to anything from this site? We'll find out soon enough if he has or not.

Uhhh, because he's been right......a lot. The first guy to report the Odell suspension. The guy that brought the locker room fiasco to light. First guy to report on Henry, first to report we denied ourselves info regarding Rucker. Whether you like him or not, his record speaks for itself.

I'm just as much a homer as anybody, but just because someone rights an unflattering piece on our team we shouldn't automatically dismiss is and call the guy a dumbass

I hope you are not trying to put words in my mouth.

No, I wasn't. Sorry for the mistake. What I meant is over the last few months everytime someone posts something unflattering by guys like Florio, Whitlock, Prisco, clayton, etc. everyone just dismisses it as a closet Steeler fan, or a hater, or state he doesn't know what thier talking about and are so suprised the guy even has a job. It's gotten kinda irritating.

[ChadJohnson-85]

WHAT CAN COACH DO TO THESE KNUCKLEHEADS?

the nflpa prevents him from doing anything except waiting for the legal process to run its course. This era of presumed guilt is annoying. All you need is a disgruntled ho and charges can be filed.

I want footballers on the team not choir boys.

If I were MB I'd think about trading Chad. His value is high and the team may not suffer too much without him.

I'm going to take heat for that

How could you even think about that! I would kill myself if we ever traded CJ!

And I would have to change my user name!

[HoosierCat]

I want footballers on the team not choir boys.

So do we all -- but remember, just because some guy can beat up women or smoke pot or steal a stereo doesn't make him a footballer. I've known plenty of punks, drunks and dopers who couldn't play tic-tac-toe, much less football, and a few guys who could sing a mean hymn Sunday morning and then wallop the hell out of someone Sunday afternoon.

[richmond_mat]

I want footballers on the team not choir boys.

So do we all -- but remember, just because some guy can beat up women or smoke pot or steal a stereo doesn't make him a footballer. I've known plenty of punks, drunks and dopers who couldn't play tic-tac-toe, much less football, and a few guys who could sing a mean hymn Sunday morning and then wallop the hell out of someone Sunday afternoon.

Point well taken, but those involved in the alleged misconduct are players. Henry has enormous talent but his brain may be too much of a handicap. Odell might like dope too much, but (hopefully) it isn't the performance enhancing type. As for the others, Are they even under contract? Has anyone been convicted?

Unfortunately, I'd say it's even money that at least one of these fellas will not be in the nfl three years from now.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

More than anything, I am worried about the way Chad does his own thing separate from the rest of the team and gets away with everything.

I undertand a little dance or two and some self promotion - big deal - but he goes overboard and Marvin doesn't really seem to have any control over these guys.

I can certainly see where this would cause grumblings in the locker room and players losing some faith and/or loyalty to their coach.

I'm guessing it's a reason we don't have Kitna as a back-up any longer for one (not that I'm that upset over it). But, it's an example.

[ArmyBengal]

All you need is a disgruntled ho and charges can be filed.

You know my ex-wife to ??

WHODEY !!!

[cincy9275]

I don't think Marvin is losing his team . The guys that are getting in trouble are rookies and a couple of second year guys . Except for Askew . The core of this team Carson , Chad , TJ , Willie , Levi , Rudi . I don't believe the true leaders of this team will let these players become a distraction . My point is there are some very quality people on this team and coaching staff. When they become pissed and start questioning Marvin , Then you do have a problem with the staff .

[richmond_mat]

All you need is a disgruntled ho and charges can be filed.

You know my ex-wife to ??

WHODEY !!!

[Dadraftnick]

This guy is right! Lewis is such an oaf that even his top talent is not re-upping. Oh. wait.

I'm halluncinating.

Levi Jones just decided to play out his career in Cincy. With Marvin. And Chad. And Hue.

Grief. Lewis just presents Cincy with its first division championship and people still are deranged. Would they rather have Dave Shula back? No? Ok, how about Dick LeBeau? Quit time please.

In fact, I'd suggest Draft man just pull up a Strohs and enjoy the fine girl I'm including with my advise.

If you read what I wrote I think,I dont think that Marvin is loosing the team,he hasn't even had a chance to the season has not started.

I said that I think that John Thornton is his hidden microphone in the Bengals locker room.

And, I said that the big concern with all of the bad character guys is having them to start to undermine Marvin.

Joseycat gets it ,we both remember what it was like when the other coaches got undermined by a bunch of problem guys.

If you read the latest interview with Marvin, it sounds like he is not making the draft moves and, it sounds like he is not happy with many of them and not being the one that makes them.

Maybe,I was reading between the lines but,Marvin would not say that he was on board with the Ahmed Brooks pick.

It looks like Marvin feels like he has been given tuna and rotten eggs and told to make a cake out of it.

It looks like Mike Brown has kept his mouth shut but, is up to his old tricks of getting involved in the drafts and I dont think that Marvin likes it .

[jjakq27]

What I meant is over the last few months everytime someone posts something unflattering by guys like Florio, Whitlock, Prisco, clayton, etc. everyone just dismisses it as a closet Steeler fan, or a hater, or state he doesn't know what thier talking about and are so suprised the guy even has a job. It's gotten kinda irritating.

I understand how you feel. My original thought was that people get so worked up over these things and I guess I have grown numb to the daily dirt reports, whether they are true or not. I have stayed away the last few weeks for that very reason. I can't wait until we can talk about something that actually pertains to football.

[Spain]

fuk character playas win superbowls!

[Spor_tees]

I lost quite a bit of respect for Marvin Lewis when he sat right across from Andy Furman on the radio 3 days ago and said that the rumor that Odell Thurman was going to be suspended for 4 games was just that, a rumor.

[Stripes]

I lost quite a bit of respect for Marvin Lewis

You must be into the negatives by now, then.

Division. Friggin'. Championship.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I lost quite a bit of respect for Marvin Lewis when he sat right across from Andy Furman on the radio 3 days ago and said that the rumor that Odell Thurman was going to be suspended for 4 games was just that, a rumor.

That was pretty lame and I heard that hub bub about that last night - he should've said no comment or addressed what he might've been referring to as the rumors circulating that he'd be suspended for a longer period of time or was on meth etc.., who knows.

Instead, just like the pre-draft comments, he sounds like he's simply lying and once again talking to the public and media as if we're a bunch of idiots.

I despise that attitude and would prefer a more open, honest approach from a coach - his canned statements and vague responses and explanations for everything are overboard.

[HoosierCat]

I lost quite a bit of respect for Marvin Lewis when he sat right across from Andy Furman on the radio 3 days ago and said that the rumor that Odell Thurman was going to be suspended for 4 games was just that, a rumor.

That was pretty lame and I heard that hub bub about that last night - he should've said no comment or addressed what he might've been referring to as the rumors circulating that he'd be suspended for a longer period of time or was on meth etc.., who knows.

Instead, just like the pre-draft comments, he sounds like he's simply lying and once again talking to the public and media as if we're a bunch of idiots.

I despise that attitude and would prefer a more open, honest approach from a coach - his canned statements and vague responses and explanations for everything are overboard.

Both the Post's Wheeler and Enquirer's Daughtery have knocked Marvin for exacerbating the character problem with his comments. Wheeler says that Marvin has no one to blame for the media raising the charcter issue but himself, since before the draft he said character would play a big role in their choices -- and then he went out and picked guys with red flags. I can agree with that.

Daughtery says that if he wants to move on, it's time for him and the rest of the organization to STFU about it. I suspect that's what's going to happen, at least as long as no new problems crop up.