'06 Numbers Game.

[ChadJohnson-85]

With training camp set to open in eight days, look for the Bengals’ biggest roster scrums to bust out at wide receiver, linebacker and defensive line with a potential infusion of young blood in the secondary and on special teams.

A thumbnail sketch of what could be some nail-biting competitions for the 53-man roster:

QUARTERBACK (3): Carson Palmer, Anthony Wright, Doug Johnson, Erik Meyer, Reggie McNeal.

Because of the glut at receiver, it looks like the only way McNeal makes it is as the third quarterback and that is a severe long shot now given Palmer’s status is going to be iffy and cautious early. Head coach Marvin Lewis has said Palmer will be ready to practice, but won’t say if he’ll start out as the starter.

Conventional wisdom is Wright is the favorite for the backup job. Since Johnson has thrown just 12 passes in two years and Wright started seven games in Baltimore last season, probably not a bad take. Meyer must be competent in the preseason to make the practice squad.

WIDE RECEIVERS (6): Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Antonio Chatman, Tab Perry, Chris Henry, Kelley Washington, Bennie Brazell, Reggie McNeal, P.K. Sam, Glenn Holt.

Until and if Henry gets suspended, you have to count him. Chatman, coming off a 49-catch year in Green Bay, is attractive because he can return punts and supplies vertical speed in the slot. Isn’t Washington a tough guy to cut if you can’t trade him? Brazell had a terrific spring, would never clear waivers to make the practice squad, and offers that rare run-by-you speed. It's tough going for a transplanted quarterback like McNeal, and if you cut him he probably won't get to the practice sqaud because he won't clear waivers. But this will be a fun camp watching what may be the deepest corps in the game.

RUNNING BACK (4): Rudi Johnson, Chris Perry, Jeremi Johnson (FB), Kenny Watson, Quincy Wilson, De De Dorsey, Terrence Whitehead, Chris Manderino (FB), Naufahu Tahi (FB).

Lewis said Perry is iffy when it comes to being ready for the start of training camp, but it doesn’t look like that is going to break up this solid quartet of the Johnsons, Perry and Watson. There is some concern about the pounding Watson has taken as he comes back after missing all but the opener last year with a torn bicep. Wilson isn’t the receiver or special teams player that Watson is, but he’s a Rudi-type pounder.

OFFENSIVE LINE (9): Willie Anderson (T), Levi Jones (T), Eric Steinbach (G) Bobbie Williams (G), Rich Braham ©, Eric Ghiaciuc ©, Stacy Andrews (G-T), Andrew Whitworth (G-T), Scott Kooistra (G-T), Adam Kieft (T), Pete Lougheed (C-G-T), Ben Wilkerson ©, Nate Livings (G), Steven Vieira (G), Kyle Takavitz (G), Jesse Boone ©.

It looks like Whitworth, the second-rounder, has made a nice transition to left guard and could very well back up Steinbach in what may be insurance if the Bengals can’t re-sign Steinbach. Could the last spot come down to a Kooistra-Kieft battle? The club really likes Kooistra’s toughness and versatility and it loves Kieft’s athleticism at left tackle before he had reconstructive knee surgery in his first week of training camp last year. They’ll be keeping an eye on his agility and flexibility. Wilkerson’s knee has to hold up daily if the long shot to overtake Ghiaciuc happens.

TIGHT ENDS (3): Reggie Kelly, Tony Stewart, Ronnie Ghent, Darnell Sanders, David Jones.

Kelly and Stewart return, but the No. 3 job is anyone’s guess and you can bet the Bengals will be looking long and hard at the camp waiver wire. Stewart’s cranky back is a concern, but Sanders, the recycled Buckeye, had a good spring. Ghent, the ultimate grinder, has to show up on special teams. Jones looks to be a practice squad candidate.

DEFENSIVE LINE (8): Bryan Robinson (E-T), Sam Adams (T), John Thornton (T), Justin Smith (E), Robert Geathers (E), Domata Peko (T), Jonathan Fanene (E-T), Frostee Rucker (E), Shaun Smith (T), Matthias Askew (T), Eric Henderson (E), Marcus Lewis (T).

There are some good players who aren’t going to make it here with the signing of Adams and the drafting of Peko. The Bengals like the strength and size of Peko, their fourth-rounder, and that may X-out Shaun Smith (even though he had a fine season last year), and Askew (even though his dormant potential rustled a bit in the spring). It’s hard to see them cutting a third-round pick in Rucker. Henderson is practice squad material.

The line has a new look with Robinson moving from left tackle to left end and Justin Smith moving back to right end as Geathers returns to his rookie role of pass-rushing end. The club feels those spots better emphasize the strength of each.

LINEBACKERS (7): Brian Simmons, Landon Johnson, David Pollack, Odell Thurman, Ahmad Brooks, Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins, Hannibal Navies, A.J. Nicholson, Rashad Jeanty.

The Bengals could keep six backers and 10 offensive linemen, or six backers and nine defensive linemen. A lot depends on how much 3-4 they are going to play out of the 4-3 base. They like to switch it up as well as rely heavily on their backers for special teams, so the tea leaves suggest seven backers.

Reports say they won’t have Thurman for the first four games, which makes Nicholson attractive because he can play the middle in a bit of off-field irony. If Brooks ever recaptures his ’04 form at Virginia, he'll be put in the middle and be the team's best backer period. Including Thurman.

“If he’s like he was in ’04, he’ll be our best middle backer since Bill Bergey,” said one club insider who wasn’t here then but knows the history.

But that’s a big if given Brooks had to lose 30 pounds over the past three months. The questions are if he’s in football shape, can avoid the early nagging injuries, and how long will the team have to wait to use him because he’s all but certain to take up a roster spot as a third-rounder.

For the first time in three years, Simmons moved to the middle in minicamp during Thurman’s absence and Johnson went to Simmons’s spot at will backer on the right side. Johnson led the club in tackles as a rookie in ’04 when he replaced the injured Nate Webster in the middle, but the 230-pounder took a pounding and the team would like to protect his shoulders. Plus, Simmons played his first five NFL seasons inside.

There will be a fierce battle for backups. Does Wilkins have to make it as the special teams ace? Miller has trouble keeping on weight but has practiced well in the middle when he’s been healthy (a rarity), and his speed helps special teams. Navies is a solid veteran who also helped on teams last year, and could play the middle in a pinch. It may very well be difficult for Nicholson, the fifth rounder, to make it. Jeanty is an interesting guy from the CFL making the switch from end to linebacker and finds himself in a hell of a numbers game unless he makes special teams his own.

SECONDARY (10): Deltha O’Neal (CB), Tory James (CB), Dexter Jackson (S), Madieu Williams (S), Johnathan Joseph (CB), Keiwan Ratliff (CB), Rashad Bauman (CB), Kevin Kaesviharn (CB-S), Ethan Kilmer (S), Anthony Mitchell (S), Greg Brooks (CB), Herna-Daze Jones (S), Patrick Body (CB), Tony Bua (S), John Busing (S).

Six corners and four safeties, right? So Kaesviharn is the sixth corner and third safety, right?

Maybe.

Kilmer was drafted with the first pick in the seventh round to be a special teams demon, so it’s hard to see him getting cut as a backup safety, which puts pressure on veterans like Mitchell and Bua and a young player like Jones.

Of course, the Bengals could opt for safety in youth behind Williams and Jackson with Kilmer and Jones. Both flashed real good range in the spring, but Jones has another year of practice squad eligibility left and there has to be a spot for Kaesviharn’s versatility and reliability. Play him 30 snaps and not 60 and he’s a heck of a player for you.

There is an intriguing battle for the third corner involving Joseph, the first-rounder who had more patience and polish than they thought, with Ratliff and Bauman. But don’t forget Brooks and Body. Brooks hasn’t been able to consistently display his outstanding cover skills in his three seasons here because of injuries and the 6-1 Body just gets better and better.

Look for kids like Brooks, Body, Jones and Bua to get plenty of snaps in the preseason games. Secondary coach Kevin Coyle says the Bengals just haven’t seen enough of them to truly know what they have in these young guys. Depending on how the preseason plays out, they could get younger here in a hurry.

SPECIALISTS (3): Brad St. Louis (LS), Shayne Graham (K), Kyle Larson (P), Danny Baugher (P).

St. Louis may have botched a field-goal snap in the playoff game, but after he missed minicamp with a muscle pull, you’re glad you have him. Larson’s experience and health give him the edge over Baugher as the rookie free agent from Arizona continues his bid to get his ACL stronger after reconstructive knee surgery last season.

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5335

[BengalChamps]

QUARTERBACK (3): Carson Palmer, Anthony Wright, Doug Johnson, Erik Meyer, Reggie McNeal.

WIDE RECEIVERS (6): Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Antonio Chatman, Tab Perry, Chris Henry, Kelley Washington, Bennie Brazell, Reggie McNeal, P.K. Sam, Glenn Holt.

DEFENSIVE LINE (8): Bryan Robinson (E-T), Sam Adams (T), John Thornton (T), Justin Smith (E), Robert Geathers (E), Domata Peko (T), Jonathan Fanene (E-T), Frostee Rucker (E), Shaun Smith (T), Matthias Askew (T), Eric Henderson (E), Marcus Lewis (T).

LINEBACKERS (7): Brian Simmons, Landon Johnson, David Pollack, Odell Thurman, Ahmad Brooks, Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins, Hannibal Navies, A.J. Nicholson, Rashad Jeanty.

Qb: To me this looks bad for DJohnson and Meyer. You CANNOT let Reggie! go. He must make the team and be allowed to develop.

WR: What would Cheech do with out CJ and TJ around to draw off coverage for him. Could he make it on his own on another team as a 1 or 2 WR. I dont think so. LET HIM GO! I dont think you can cut KW or Brazell to keep Cheech.

DL: Please do not cut Shaun Smith to keep Frucker. Looks like Mr. Inactive will be shown the door.

LB: How can you cut speedy Special teams players like Miller and Wilkins to keep Nicholson?

IMO the depth of this team shows that character problems like Cheech, Frucker, and Nicholson could be cut with no impact on the team's talent level.

[ArmyBengal]

If Brooks ever recaptures his ’04 form at Virginia, he'll be put in the middle and be the team's best backer period. Including Thurman.

WHOA !!! Quite the claim right there. If he turns out to be that good, scary good this defense will be, yes !!!

WHODEY !!!

[ChadJohnson-85]

If Brooks ever recaptures his ’04 form at Virginia, he'll be put in the middle and be the team's best backer period. Including Thurman.

WHOA !!! Quite the claim right there. If he turns out to be that good, scary good this defense will be, yes !!!

WHODEY !!!

Yeah then get a better d-line & well be set.

[bengal4life]

I agree BC with your statement about Smith. I really like him. This year could be his breakout year. He has consistantly gotten better over the past 2 years in the rotation.

[ArmyBengal]

Dont think you can cut KW or Brazell to keep Cheech.

How can you cut speedy Special teams players like Miller and Wilkins to keep Nicholson?

Based on character, no you can't keep Cheech, but on talent, I'd say buh bye to K-Wash...

I like Miller, but I'd like to see what Nicholson can do. NO, that doesn't mean I want to waste the Miller pick and be out a guy when something goes wrong, it means I think they got Nicholson for a reason and believe his talent will be greater than that of Miller. Nothing more...

I like Shaun Smith as well and it will be fun to watch him some more !!!

WHODEY !!!

[schweinhart]

QUARTERBACK (3): Carson Palmer, Anthony Wright, Doug Johnson, Erik Meyer, Reggie McNeal.

WIDE RECEIVERS (6): Chad Johnson, T.J. Houshmandzadeh, Antonio Chatman, Tab Perry, Chris Henry, Kelley Washington, Bennie Brazell, Reggie McNeal, P.K. Sam, Glenn Holt.

DEFENSIVE LINE (8): Bryan Robinson (E-T), Sam Adams (T), John Thornton (T), Justin Smith (E), Robert Geathers (E), Domata Peko (T), Jonathan Fanene (E-T), Frostee Rucker (E), Shaun Smith (T), Matthias Askew (T), Eric Henderson (E), Marcus Lewis (T).

LINEBACKERS (7): Brian Simmons, Landon Johnson, David Pollack, Odell Thurman, Ahmad Brooks, Caleb Miller, Marcus Wilkins, Hannibal Navies, A.J. Nicholson, Rashad Jeanty.

Qb: To me this looks bad for DJohnson and Meyer. You CANNOT let Reggie! go. He must make the team and be allowed to develop.

WR: What would Cheech do with out CJ and TJ around to draw off coverage for him. Could he make it on his own on another team as a 1 or 2 WR. I dont think so. LET HIM GO! I dont think you can cut KW or Brazell to keep Cheech.

DL: Please do not cut Shaun Smith to keep Frucker. Looks like Mr. Inactive will be shown the door.

LB: How can you cut speedy Special teams players like Miller and Wilkins to keep Nicholson?

IMO the depth of this team shows that character problems like Cheech, Frucker, and Nicholson could be cut with no impact on the team's talent level.

I'd agree with all those points at this stage, especially the last one.

McNeal presents some interseting possibilities but also a degree of limitation. If he gets tapped 3rd QB, he won't be used as part of the 45-man on game day. But if he shows he's by far the best punt returner on the team, then he probably needs to be on the active roster and somebody else (Meyer most likely) set as 3rd QB.

But McNeal as 3rd QB should let the Bengals keep just 5 WRs. If one of those 5 gets hurt, then McNeal could always be activated the following week. Should the obscene happen and 3 WRs go out in 1 game, there's always Chris Perry and Kenny Watson (if he sticks) as slot WRs.

The DL sitch seems to me most up in the air. I'd like to see them keep 9 -- 4 true DTs, 4 true DEs and 1 DT/DE (either B-Rob or Fanene). Shaun Smith could prove to be the odd man out in all this but Sam Adams is no spring chicken and I'll be wondering for awhile about just how quick to get on the field the next 4th round DT from Mich. State will be.

LB wise it would be hard to cut Miller over Nicholson IMO because Miller can play WSLB if need be and that has become more important with the stupdity of Odell. If either B-Simms or Landon goes down, someone will have to play weakside and I'm not sure Brooks could swing the middle early in the season to allow either to take over there.

Also, I'd like to see only 9 DBs stick: Joseph, O'Neal, James and Ratliff at CB -- Madieu, Dex Jack, Kilmer and K-2 at S -- and Body as a CB/FS.

[skyline]

I needed this article to cheer me up a bit.

Like others have mentioned, you can really see our depth starting to pile up.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Prediction: McNeal will be the #4 or #5 WR

KW will be the #3, Tab should get his licks at #4 hopefully, unless McNeal beats him out.

Brazelle is interesting, but may take a year or so to develop and earn his way onto the roster.

Brooks has the potential to be the best LB on the team.

It looks as though Pollack will be a DE.

Preseason/training camp should be interesting this year to say the least, on defense and at WR.

[Stripes]

I'm starting to think Chatman may be an odd man out at WR. If Henry doesn't return, then he's probably a lock, but otherwise... I'm not sure he'd beat out all the new talent we've gotten since he was signed. Either way, we are friggin' nuts at that position.

The defensive line looks as deep as I've seen it in a while. I'd figure Smith would make the squad over Peko, but I think both will make it. I think a tweener like Fanene or even B-rob might be the odd men out here. I'm interested in seeing what happens with Henderson too.

[ChadJohnson-85]

It looks as though Pollack will be a DE.

IMO it would help our defense if Pollack went back to DE cuz we are pretty much set @ the LB position with or without Pollack playing @ LB.

[Stripes]

I doubt Pollack is going anywhere, and I hope he doesn't. He's primed for a breakout season at linebacker, and I don't want to screw it up by being impatient and putting him in a place where he probably won't succeed.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I don't know WTF I was thinking on the WR spots, and forgot about Chatman.

Actually, I was really impressed with Chatman last year with GB - the guy was solid.

Again, another interesting battle between he, KW and Perry/McNeal for those 3-5 spots.

I have to think Marvin/Brat will value Chatman's punt return ability and veteran status in the WR group with Henry gone.

I doubt Pollack is going anywhere, and I hope he doesn't. He's primed for a breakout season at linebacker, and I don't want to screw it up by being impatient and putting him in a place where he probably won't succeed.

If you noticed the way he handled interior o-lineman last year (was the team's best pure pass rusher) I think that solidified his DE status in Marvin's mind. Pollack was impressive as hell up the middle and off the edge, you can tell how much better he is than the rest of that defense upfront on raw talent alone. It's why I don't think much of Justin Smith. Too slow off the snap and no moves.

Thing is you have to find a way to keep Pollack on the field all 3 downs - he's an ideal 3-4 OLB and what the Bengals' are going to do with him in this scheme exactly, eludes everyone I think, since the stupid media and beat writers in this town do not know enough about football to ask these types of questions.

Lapham does, but I've never heard him address this at all yet. I suppose training camp will shed light on things as always.

[ArmyBengal]

I have to think Marvin/Brat will value Chatman's punt return ability

That says it all right there. Ratliff struggled there last year... BAD !!!

WHODEY !!!

[membengal]

Agree with others herein, great to read actual football chatter. Yeah, the depth is definitely starting to fill in. Like it should at this point.

[skyline]

I don't think Pollack's moving form the LB spot. They've invested too much time into him learning the position to give up after one season.

My guess is that he'll see some time at DE this year as expected, but LB will be his primary role.

[ArmyBengal]

Versatility is the key with Pollack and like Skyline said, I think they have invested to much time in him learning the position to make a change, but with all the LB's, anything is possible...

WHODEY !!!

[Dadraftnick]

When I look at the roster scrums a couple of things stand out here.

1)Bryan Robinson- a complete waste of free agent money,not only was he surpassed and out played by undrafted free agent Shuan Smith but, Robinson shows what happens when you go into the free agent market on the cheep and end up with nothing to show for your efforts.

2)The idea to move Robinson to the DE spot is a bad idea all the way around.He is not suited for the spot,he will provide no pass rush,and he is likely the worst person suited of all Bengal canidates for the spot.If we cut him I doubt that any team will even pick him up and we are talking about starting him at DE.

3)The endless picks at the WR spot have taken their toll, at least a few of those picks should have went to the DE,TE,and S spot.

4)Enless Eric Henderson or Frostee Rucker get the starting nod over Robinson and play WAY over their heads or Pollack is moved to DE the Bengals will have another season with little pass rush.

5)We drafted 3 WR's this year NONE of them were even starting WR's in college,yes one will be a 5 th string QB and we are trying to make one a S, the point is, none were starters at the spot we drafted them for,stupid!We drafted those WR's for a spot that we did'nt even have open after we drafted 2 WR's last year and 1 the year before.Last time I checked we already have a Pro Bowl WR and one that should be both tied to long term contracts and we have Chris Henry signed to a long term contract.We just signed Chatam to a free agent contract.We have Tab Perry signed for several more years.We have K-Wash who was projected by some as a 1st round pick when he came out.Washington couldnt even get on the active list last year.So,why all the WR picks???

6)We still dont a complete TE that go in block and catch and start.We have WR's though.

7)There is not a good back up at the S spot on the roster, maybe we can pick one up in the end of year cuts.

[blueridge]

When I look at the roster scrums a couple of things stand out here.

1)Bryan Robinson- a complete waste of free agent money,not only was he surpassed and out played by undrafted free agent Shuan Smith but, Robinson shows what happens when you go into the free agent market on the cheep and end up with nothing to show for your efforts.

2)The idea to move Robinson to the DE spot is a bad idea all the way around.He is not suited for the spot,he will provide no pass rush,and he is likely the worst person suited of all Bengal canidates for the spot.If we cut him I doubt that any team will even pick him up and we are talking about starting him at DE.

3)The endless picks at the WR spot have taken their toll, at least a few of those picks should have went to the DE,TE,and S spot.

4)Enless Eric Henderson or Frostee Rucker get the starting nod over Robinson and play WAY over their heads or Pollack is moved to DE the Bengals will have another season with little pass rush.

5)We drafted 3 WR's this year NONE of them were even starting WR's in college,yes one will be a 5 th string QB and we are trying to make one a S, the point is, none were starters at the spot we drafted them for,stupid!We drafted those WR's for a spot that we did'nt even have open after we drafted 2 WR's last year and 1 the year before.Last time I checked we already have a Pro Bowl WR and one that should be both tied to long term contracts and we have Chris Henry signed to a long term contract.We just signed Chatam to a free agent contract.We have Tab Perry signed for several more years.We have K-Wash who was projected by some as a 1st round pick when he came out.Washington couldnt even get on the active list last year.So,why all the WR picks???

6)We still dont a complete TE that go in block and catch and start.We have WR's though.

7)There is not a good back up at the S spot on the roster, maybe we can pick one up in the end of year cuts.

blah...blah...blah...blah. Shut up already.

[ArmyBengal]

WHODEY !!!

[schweinhart]

When I look at the roster scrums a couple of things stand out here.

1)Bryan Robinson- a complete waste of free agent money,not only was he surpassed and out played by undrafted free agent Shuan Smith but, Robinson shows what happens when you go into the free agent market on the cheep and end up with nothing to show for your efforts.

2)The idea to move Robinson to the DE spot is a bad idea all the way around.He is not suited for the spot,he will provide no pass rush,and he is likely the worst person suited of all Bengal canidates for the spot.If we cut him I doubt that any team will even pick him up and we are talking about starting him at DE.

The .com announcement that Bryan Robinson would be the preseason starter at LDE was pretty surprising. As the LDT, he did what Thornton couldn't do consistently when he was there and that was hold the gap to keep the middle from opening up wide enough to drive a semi through. Granted it was a different front scheme with a lot of stunting under Frazier when Thornton was LDT but still B-Rob did look like an upgrade there...until the Bengals finally gave their waiver wire claim Shaun Smith the chance to show what it really looked like to hold the gap.

It remains to be seen what B-Rob can do at end, where he would be decent if they're talking about a 3-4 or 3 man pass rushes. But out of a 4-3, it's hard to believe that he'll be able to provide the kind of contain and backside pursuit that they'll need at that position. The advantages that he'll have is that it will take more than a TE to block him and he should be strong enough to ride a RT back and get the hard edge needed to disrupt stretch runs and force the RB to cut early.

[Dadraftnick]

Mark my words Bryan Robinson = No pass rush!

Can he get more sacks than Geathers? Its not like that would be a hard to do.

He is a DT and not much of one at that,if he is cut no one will pick him up and if someone that is really hurting for depth does he will not start and surely not at DE!

Robinson at DE says to me the coaches are just throwing in the towel and giving up on having a pass rush.

If any of you think that Robinson will have double digit sacks this year I have a couple of bridges that I would like to sell you.

[ArmyBengal]

There is no way Robinson has double digit sacks, unless the QB runs into him on purpose. Geathers is the one people should not turn a blind eye to, as he will return to the DE from the DT disaster last year. He did pretty well as a rookie and has lost weight to go back to DE.

WHODEY !!!

[derekshank]

Robinson is a 3-4 DE. This means he is used to trying to get a pass rush as one of only 3 men on the line. With 4 men on the line (especially with guys as big as S. Smith and Adams) there will be big mismatches. He might not be the quickest guy in the world, but a lack of pass rush won't be his fault. Besides... Pollack will have a great pass rush from that side.

Geathers can be pretty decent too... but I'm for having bigger guys on the line, completely shutting down the running game, and letting the LB's focus on taking down the QB. Robinson won't be in there on passing downs... but it is hard to argue that he wouldn't be the best DE on first and 2nd downs when the offense is likely to run.

[Dadraftnick]

Eric Henderson and Frostee Rucker are the only two guys that should be looked at at DE starter.

According to Marvin they are not going to switch to a full time 3-4 ,they were considering it if they had drafted the 4.3 40 LB/DE Manny Lawson.

They may switch from time to time to a 3-4 like they did last year to confuse a team but, they will stay mostly in the 4-3.

What I am concerned about is that the Bengals have a tendency to only rush the passer on 3rd down and not much at that on 3rd down.

Teams pass on 1st and 2nd downs with out any pressure on the QB.

With our corners if we just had a good DE we would have a top ten D.