Dan Pompei blasts the Bengals

[HairOnFire]

Who's bad? They are

Posted: May 18, 2006

Thankfully, I can leave the job of separating the saints from sinners to a higher power.

NFL teams aren't as fortunate. They have to judge the character of every player entering the draft -- which can be a complex task, an impossible task in some cases. Teams draw the line in different places. Some teams draw the line with permanent marker; others draw it with pencil.

Teams such as the Bengals have taken chances on players others would have nothing to do with. A cartoon on profootballtalk.com portrayed the Bengals' stripes as jail stripes. I asked coach Marvin Lewis whether he is concerned about the how the team is perceived. "The team's image is a concern," he says. "There's no question about that."

In fact, three days before the draft, Lewis made a point of saying the Bengals would pay more attention to character issues this year. He says the team took players off its board who had failed drug tests, such as defensive tackle Claude Wroten, as well as players who had faced gun charges. Lewis also says the Bengals had no interest in players they perceived as having poor work ethics.

Lewis is a good man who wants to do the right thing. He's not a win-at-all-costs coach. But he has not affected the Bengals' longstanding and ignominious tradition of drafting players with questionable pasts. Cincinnati drafted three players -- defensive end Frostee Rucker, linebacker A.J. Nicholson and receiver Reggie McNeal -- who were off one team's board because of character concerns and signed a fourth, fullback Naufahu Tahi, as an undrafted free agent.

Look, I believe in forgiveness and second chances, and I realize a lot of kids do stupid things and become fine adults. But when a team takes a player off its draft board, it usually is for sound reasons; no club wants to eliminate a player from consideration unless it absolutely has to. Often, the allegations or charges that have surfaced are only the fin of the shark.

Rucker and Nicholson were downgraded on the Bengals' draft board because of character concerns, and Lewis points out they were not chosen in the first two rounds. Rucker was accused of sexual assault and pleaded guilty to a reduced charge; Nicholson was suspended for a game by Florida State after he was accused of sexual assault. Those weren't the only incidents that scared some teams away from Rucker and Nicholson.

Lewis says the Bengals did not downgrade McNeal. "I don't see how you can consider Reggie a character risk," he says. Other teams' concerns with McNeal were less about citizenship than about his work ethic and willingness to conform. From that standpoint, Lewis points out it's unfair to lump McNeal into the same category with players who have been charged with crimes.

The Bengals took another player with a history of being difficult to control last year and got mixed results. Linebacker Odell Thurman played wonderfully as a rookie but gave Lewis a few headaches in the process. Sources say he was fined close to $90,000 over the course of the season for various violations of team rules, though Lewis refused to confirm that.

Receiver Chris Henry, from the same draft class, also caused waves. Henry was busted for marijuana possession and charged with waving a stolen gun at a crowd of people. He has pleaded not guilty to the felony gun charge and is awaiting trial on that incident. "Chris Henry did not have a marijuana problem or a gun problem in college," Lewis says. "If he had, he wouldn't be here."

Some teams knew enough about Henry and Thurman to take them off their boards. My suspicion is the Bengals don't gather as much intelligence on players as some teams. They have some fine evaluators, but their scouting staff is the NFL's smallest. Lewis says the size of the staff is not an issue.

It's possible the Bengals don't spend as much money on private investigations of players with questionable pasts. Asked how the team approaches such circumstances, Lewis says, "You have to investigate, but it's not proper for the team to talk about what you do. That's kind of our business."

Perhaps the Bengals need to take a harder look at how they do their business in regard to character risks.

A game of chance

The Sporting News obtained the list of players who were taken off one team's draft board over the past five drafts. These teams drafted the highest number of those players:

Bengals: seven

Chiefs: four

Rams: three

Cardinals: three

Senior writer Dan Pompei covers the NFL for Sporting News. E-mail him at pompei@sportingnews.com.

[Tasher]

No news, here.

Move along, move along.

Repeat after me: "In Marvin We Trust."

opps, should be:

or maybe:

better yet, how 'bout just this PompousPissAss:

[Ox]

[Tasher]

Is THAT the FSU temptress that got Nicholson in trouble?

...yeah, she'd get a eunuch in trouble!

[Stripes]

How many articles are people going to write about this?

[cover2]

He made his case!

[andybren]

Lewis says the Bengals did not downgrade McNeal. "I don't see how you can consider Reggie a character risk," he says. Other teams' concerns with McNeal were less about citizenship than about his work ethic and willingness to conform. From that standpoint, Lewis points out it's unfair to lump McNeal into the same category with players who have been charged with crimes.

Marvin's dead-right on this point. You know the writer's reaching when he includes a QB-who-might-not-want-to-play-WR as a bad character guy.

Lewis is a good man who wants to do the right thing. He's not a win-at-all-costs coach. But he has not affected the Bengals' longstanding and ignominious tradition of drafting players with questionable pasts. Cincinnati drafted three players -- defensive end Frostee Rucker, linebacker A.J. Nicholson and receiver Reggie McNeal -- who were off one team's board because of character concerns and signed a fourth, fullback Naufahu Tahi, as an undrafted free agent.

...

The Sporting News obtained the list of players who were taken off one team's draft board over the past five drafts. These teams drafted the highest number of those players:

One team? How could you possibly base serious journalism on the work of one anonymous team. At least demonstrate that this mystery team has a record for making good picks. Imagine if somebody tried to draw conclusions from the Bengals' draft boards of the 1990's. How do we know this one team made the right decisions?

And what is this about the Bengals history of picking players with questionable pasts? The only question marks I can think of are Corey Dillon and Chad Johnson. And obviously those were successful gambles.

Another sign of the off-season....sloppy journalism.

[GregCook]

Young men, high testostrone, female attention or adulation...... Pompei can only dream. Marvin Lewis gets his extensions based upon his won/loss rate not on his rehabilation rate. Chris Henry is a punk, no doubt, but he's our punk and he gets open. Just as long as these guys produce on the field and stay out of jail, kind of mutually exclusive, the Bengals will be fine. Besides, when you draft 24th in every round, you got to take some risks, including character risks.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I can't tell if I'm reading a soft porn site here anymore, or a Bengals forum...but then when I see some ugly cheerleader with a nasty camel toe (or is that a penis?) I'm quickly reminded that I'm at Bengalszone!

[walshfan]

good lookin babes and sprots talk.. what more does a guy need?

[turningpoint]

LOL 90,000 in team rule fines, yet he still started everygame...

rudi misses 1 meeting and he's not starting I find that hard to believe.

[Kazkal]

CB Manning, RB Drew charged with assault Click here to find out more!

NFL.com wire reports

LOS ANGELES (May 18, 2006) -- Chicago Bears cornerback Ricky Manning Jr. and two former UCLA football players were charged with assault for allegedly taking part in an early morning fight at a restaurant last month.

Manning was charged with one count of assault by means likely to produce great bodily injury, Deputy District Attorney Karen Murcia said.

His arraignment was scheduled for May 18. Manning has previously declined comment.

Manning, a former UCLA star, was arrested April 23, along with former Bruins Tyler Ebell and Maurice Drew, after they allegedly attacked a man at a restaurant near the UCLA campus in Westwood.

Police said the players then drove off in Manning's SUV but were pulled over by officers soon after when the vehicle was spotted by a helicopter crew.

Ebell, 22, and Drew were expected to surrender and be arraigned at a later date, Murcia said.

Drew, 21, was taken by Jacksonville in the second round of the NFL draft. The running back attended mini-camp in Florida last month.

Manning, 25, signed with the Bears last month after the Carolina Panthers declined to match Chicago's offer sheet. He is on probation for an assault in April 2002. If convicted, he faces up to four years in state prison.

Hey a guy who diden't have character issues alrdy off to a great start!!!! yet were so horrible

[DontPushMe]

Id take guys with character issues who can play over nice scrubs any day.

Heck, it won the ravens a super bowl.

[Spor_tees]

Have the Bengal's had anyone in federal prison yet?

[Section 310]

Come on homers, Pompeii is right. One of Marvin's first jobs when he took over this team was to get rid of the dead weight. Remember the talk about "cancer corner"? You cannot continue to draft guys with SERIOUS red flags like Nicholson and Rucker. How many people do you know that have been charged with sexual freakin assualt?? This is not a simple DUI, or underage consumption issue(like Peko). Marvin has built this team on character, and high energy guys. If we keep adding "turds" as one site called them, I am afraid that it will eventually come back and bite us on the ass.

If these same guys were drafted by Baltimore you would be bad-mouthing the team for collecting inmates to make Ray Ray feel at home.

We have to assume Lewis knows what he is doing, but the Henry problems should have served as fair warning. Remember the talk after the draft last year?? Marvin explained that he and Chad had gone to dinner with Henry and thought he was a good guy...just misunderstood. Marvin was obviously wrong....lets hope that he doesn't strike out on these guys.

It is OK to draft a guy like Thurman that has to be constantly kicked into line...it is another to draft guys with serious antisocial tendencies....especially in the 3rd round.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Young men, high testostrone, female attention or adulation...... Pompei can only dream. Marvin Lewis gets his extensions based upon his won/loss rate not on his rehabilation rate. Chris Henry is a punk, no doubt, but he's our punk and he gets open. Just as long as these guys produce on the field and stay out of jail, kind of mutually exclusive, the Bengals will be fine. Besides, when you draft 24th in every round, you got to take some risks, including character risks.

Yeah, but remember all the crap we said about the Ratbirds when half their team was either in jail, on probation, or awaiting trial. I don't want to pull for a team like that. I don't think it takes that to win. I would also like to go out at night when I'm in town and not fear that a member of my favorite team is going to shoot me.

And to all the people who mouth "In Marvin we Trust?" He's not infallible, and when you pick up enough of these turds, some of them stay that way (Henry).

[Tasher]

Before we get all worked up, lets see who makes the 53 man roster.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Also, lets remember that sometimes when you take a chance on a character guy you get burnt (see Dopey the Gun Bunny) and sometimes you get a real gem (see Odell the Thurminator).

But if you don't take any chances you never win the lotto.

[HoTbOy]

Wow good points on both sides, the comment i don't want to be shot by my favorites teams player made me really think about how serious it really was, I read about shootings all the time here and would not want my favorite teams player getting in on the action...I must admit when MLewis said that he would not draft players with issues and to read about some of the things these players did really made me wonder is he playing a game of chance, maybe one is CHenry or OThurman...after the CHerny fiasco, I thought everyone would be squeaky clean...but the players with issues seem to be the better players on the team...I for 1 hope that MLewis knows what he is doing because I am tired of reading negative press about da Bengals we have had enough of that over the years....being known as da Bungles...and people laughing when you say your a Bengals fan...

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Hey, at least we don't have anyone who did jail time for selling drugs or who was accused of murder.....

[Beerfish]

No news, here.

Move along, move along.

Repeat after me: "In Marvin We Trust."

opps, should be:

or maybe:

better yet, how 'bout just this PompousPissAss:

Hey, that photo is of one of our cheerleaders (Edmonton Eskimos).

[Kazkal]

wasen't AJ just accused of sexual assault? so he's guilty without being proven? BS charges do happen

[Tasher]

Hey, that photo is of one of our cheerleaders (Edmonton Eskimos).

Oh yeah! Thanks for reminding me where I found it! I could not believe that a Cheer Squad would put that photo on their team website!

http://www.esks.com/default.asp?V_DOC_ID=895

I found this because Gregg Easterbrook in his Tuesday Morning Quarterback column on NFL.com ( http://nfl.com/writers/easterbrook ) (now on ESPN.com) features a hottie cheerleader that a reader emails in, so he had an EE cheerbabe featured so I checked out the site and found this:

[HairOnFire]

Young men, high testostrone, female attention or adulation...... Pompei can only dream. Marvin Lewis gets his extensions based upon his won/loss rate not on his rehabilation rate. Chris Henry is a punk, no doubt, but he's our punk and he gets open. Just as long as these guys produce on the field and stay out of jail, kind of mutually exclusive, the Bengals will be fine. Besides, when you draft 24th in every round, you got to take some risks, including character risks.

I'm sorta torn on this one.

Marvin once said that you don't win in the NFL with church mice, and I agree with him...to a point. Dallas won several Super Bowls while becoming known as the CrimeBoys. The Ravens won a trophy and then seemed to switch from uniforms to bright orange jail jumpsuits overnight. The mystique of the Raiders is built upon winning with players whose character made them outcasts. Frankly, there isn't a team in the NFL who hasn't ignored questionable character if the level of talent and need were a good match. Like it or not most Super Bowl teams not only feature a player or two with questionable character, but far too often those players are the best players on the team.

But my gut tells me that Cincy is taking too many risks, and I fear the reason they're willing to do so is due to their past history. This is a team that hit the lottery fairly often with marginal characters like Carl Pickens and Corey Dillon, but as good as those players turned out to be on the field...they were just as bad in the lockerroom. At one point those players were our only superstars, but they also created Cancer Corner, and they made certain that every new Bengal would be indoctrinated in the Bengals culture of losing.

In fairly short order Marvin Lewis has performed a minor miracle by transforming the negative culture he inherited, and if there's a difference between the new Bengals and the old version it's probably found at the top. The very best players on the new Bengals are high charcter guys like Carson Palmer, Rudi Johnson, Chad Johnson, Willie Anderson, David Pollack, and others. The questionable character guys are almost exclusively backups or headline making 3rd wideouts, and if push came to shove they could be cast aside without any lasting damage. In addition, with the possible exception of Odell Thurman none of the fringe types are currently counted amongst the team leaders, and that's not likely to change anytime soon.

But as the team gets better it gets harder to pull and root for players like Chris Henry, who oddly enough is a player I screamed for them to draft when he fell to the 3rd round. (Like I said at the top, I'm sorta torn on this one.)

[BengalByTheBay]

The very best players on the new Bengals are high charcter guys like Carson Palmer, Rudi Johnson, Chad Johnson, Willie Anderson, David Pollack, and others. The questionable character guys are almost exclusively backups or headline making 3rd wideouts, and if push came to shove they could be cast aside without any lasting damage. In addition, with the possible exception of Odell Thurman none of the fringe types are currently counted amongst the team leaders, and that's not likely to change anytime soon.

I think part of the reason you're torn is that one of your prime examples -- CJ -- is a player that falls into the broad and difficult-to-define category of "character problems." Also, you note yourself that Odell is also an exception to the claim that the best players on the team are also those without "character" flaws.

I have to use the quotes because I'm not even sure what constitutes a "character" problem. Is it getting arrested? I don't think so because some college player getting popped for a DUI would probably never get onto a "character" problem list for the draft. Also, many "character" problems didn't get arrested prior to being chosen, right. Did Henry ever get arrested? I though his main problem was due to his lack of respect for authority and getting stupid on-field penalties to hurt his team. So, exactly what is a "character" problem?

By nature you have to have some kind of opinion on what is a "character" problem that is too great to take a chance on drafting a guy. Some teams probably have a higher sensitivity to drug problems, some to sexual assault problems, some more to gang affiliation....whatever. It's an exercise in line-drawing no matter what your position. IMO no team in the league automatically crosses-off a guy just because there is some question in one of the usual "character" categories. I think you'd probably end up with such a short list that you wouldn't be able to draft competitively to begin with.

The final problem I have with this whole comparison of one team against another is that it's a self-fulfilling prophesy to a large extent. It's easy to look at somebody that got into trouble after they get into the NFL and, if they had any problems before, to say that's what did them in. Tons of guys have gotten into huge trouble only after they got to the NFL. So, IMO the bigger question is how a particular player projects to handle an NFL lifestyle. But it's just waaayy too easy to say, for example, the Bengals were stupid to draft Henry because they should've known something like this would happen. Llike many have pointed out, what about Chris Carter, what about Jimmy Smith, what about Randy Moss? These guys are 19 to 21 years old. If I had ungodly cash at that age.....well, I'd like to think I would've invested in oil companies, but I probably really would've done (to a lesser degree, no doubt) what many of these guys end up doing.