Grade the Bengals Draft

[HairOnFire]

First, since no evaluation guarantees a high rate of success you're best served by going with the expert opinion over the pure speculation of rank amateurs. Or do you disagree?

Of course. When no evaluation guarantees a high rate of success, your best move is to ignore it all and wait to see how things play out.

But most of us don't wait to see how things play out. Eric Henderson has already become a fan favorite, no doubt in part because of how little the Bengals have invested in securing his services. Meanwhile, Frostee Rucker is apparently doomed to be resented and scorned before he ever plays a single NFL down because his selection on draft day didn't match where pre-draft guides predicted he'd go.

And as much as I'd like to think that none of the above matters a bit I'm all too aware that years after the fact Justin Smith is still largely judged by fans and writers more for when he was drafted than how he actually plays.

[HoosierCat]

But most of us don't wait to see how things play out. Eric Henderson has already become a fan favorite, no doubt in part because of how little the Bengals have invested in securing his services. Meanwhile, Frostee Rucker is apparently doomed to be resented and scorned before he ever plays a single NFL down because his selection on draft day didn't match where pre-draft guides predicted he'd go.

And as much as I'd like to think that none of the above matters a bit I'm all too aware that years after the fact Justin Smith is still largely judged by fans and writers more for when he was drafted than how he actually plays.

Very true...but also nothing new. Remember last year, when Wilkerson had no shortage of pimps (including me)? Or the Perry selection: even before there were any injury issues, within seconds of his selection, the Bengals were blasted by fans for taking the third-best back on the board. It's what we do; if we didn't this board would be a pretty vacant place. And let's not even mention the whole Levi Jones thing...

Same thing happens in FA. When the bengals signed Hardy, James, Thornton and Clemons in Marvin's first year, all were hailed as everything from solid stopgaps to major upgrades. Here we are a few years down the road and, as it turns out, Hardy was a waste of money, Clemons was probably about right (if allowed to hang on a year too long), Thornton looks overpaid, and James turned out to be a stud.

If anything, the habit probably stems from the fact that we've got 8 months to kill in between a paltry 16 games (not counting playoffs), which is enough time to break down teams, coaches, management and players into their consituent atoms. Simply put, the fact we grade the draft starting a few days after it's finished and before the players have even stepped on the field only goes to show that we all have way, way, iway too much time on our hands. But we are fans -- which after all, comes from the word fanatic. It's what we do, even though it makes absolutely no sense at all.

[omahacolt]

decent draft for the bengals

i think joseph could be real good someday but i dont know if he has the experience to play much right away

the tackle was a solid pick and nice pick for the future

i would give it a B (not that you guys care)

whats the deal with the rumors of the bengals going to a 3-4? is any of that true?

[Kazkal]

He has as much as experiance chad had but he won't be rushed Tory is only 1 year removed from the probowl and will have proper support from madieu and dexter this year

[derekshank]

But most of us don't wait to see how things play out. Eric Henderson has already become a fan favorite, no doubt in part because of how little the Bengals have invested in securing his services. Meanwhile, Frostee Rucker is apparently doomed to be resented and scorned before he ever plays a single NFL down because his selection on draft day didn't match where pre-draft guides predicted he'd go.

And as much as I'd like to think that none of the above matters a bit I'm all too aware that years after the fact Justin Smith is still largely judged by fans and writers more for when he was drafted than how he actually plays.

Very true...but also nothing new. Remember last year, when Wilkerson had no shortage of pimps (including me)? Or the Perry selection: even before there were any injury issues, within seconds of his selection, the Bengals were blasted by fans for taking the third-best back on the board. It's what we do; if we didn't this board would be a pretty vacant place. And let's not even mention the whole Levi Jones thing...

Same thing happens in FA. When the bengals signed Hardy, James, Thornton and Clemons in Marvin's first year, all were hailed as everything from solid stopgaps to major upgrades. Here we are a few years down the road and, as it turns out, Hardy was a waste of money, Clemons was probably about right (if allowed to hang on a year too long), Thornton looks overpaid, and James turned out to be a stud.

If anything, the habit probably stems from the fact that we've got 8 months to kill in between a paltry 16 games (not counting playoffs), which is enough time to break down teams, coaches, management and players into their consituent atoms. Simply put, the fact we grade the draft starting a few days after it's finished and before the players have even stepped on the field only goes to show that we all have way, way, iway too much time on our hands. But we are fans -- which after all, comes from the word fanatic. It's what we do, even though it makes absolutely no sense at all.

Right there is your problem. It's the NFL's fault for giving us such a good product, and so little time to actually enjoy it. They should eliminate 2 pre-season games (do we really need 4 games to decide who moves to the practice squad?), make it an 18 game schedule, and include an extra bye week. This would stretch the regular season to 20 weeks rather than 17, and give us 3 fewer weeks to be so damn antsy.

[Kazkal]

But most of us don't wait to see how things play out. Eric Henderson has already become a fan favorite, no doubt in part because of how little the Bengals have invested in securing his services. Meanwhile, Frostee Rucker is apparently doomed to be resented and scorned before he ever plays a single NFL down because his selection on draft day didn't match where pre-draft guides predicted he'd go.

And as much as I'd like to think that none of the above matters a bit I'm all too aware that years after the fact Justin Smith is still largely judged by fans and writers more for when he was drafted than how he actually plays.

Very true...but also nothing new. Remember last year, when Wilkerson had no shortage of pimps (including me)? Or the Perry selection: even before there were any injury issues, within seconds of his selection, the Bengals were blasted by fans for taking the third-best back on the board. It's what we do; if we didn't this board would be a pretty vacant place. And let's not even mention the whole Levi Jones thing...

Same thing happens in FA. When the bengals signed Hardy, James, Thornton and Clemons in Marvin's first year, all were hailed as everything from solid stopgaps to major upgrades. Here we are a few years down the road and, as it turns out, Hardy was a waste of money, Clemons was probably about right (if allowed to hang on a year too long), Thornton looks overpaid, and James turned out to be a stud.

If anything, the habit probably stems from the fact that we've got 8 months to kill in between a paltry 16 games (not counting playoffs), which is enough time to break down teams, coaches, management and players into their consituent atoms. Simply put, the fact we grade the draft starting a few days after it's finished and before the players have even stepped on the field only goes to show that we all have way, way, iway too much time on our hands. But we are fans -- which after all, comes from the word fanatic. It's what we do, even though it makes absolutely no sense at all.

Right there is your problem. It's the NFL's fault for giving us such a good product, and so little time to actually enjoy it. They should eliminate 2 pre-season games (do we really need 4 games to decide who moves to the practice squad?), make it an 18 game schedule, and include an extra bye week. This would stretch the regular season to 20 weeks rather than 17, and give us 3 fewer weeks to be so damn antsy.

I like it

[cincy9275]

i did give them a bad grade .i still think we could have done better in rds 2-3 . aj nicholson i believe he was a steal as long as he can keep his act together this kid is a monster on the field. peko the big dt from mich st is a nice pick too. being a buckeye fan i have seen this guy play he can make some plays and be very disruptive kinda like big sam . and reggie mcneal could he be this years tab a late rd pick that could have a impact this season. jj's has grown on me i like this pick a lot more that i have found out more about him plus he will be practicing against the best core group of w/r's in the nfl. if we get four solid players from this draft then it was a very successful draft . and i will eat some crow for bashing it if this happen or if frosty and the big tackle from lsu prove they were worthy of there draft positions

[HoosierCat]

Right there is your problem. It's the NFL's fault for giving us such a good product, and so little time to actually enjoy it. They should eliminate 2 pre-season games (do we really need 4 games to decide who moves to the practice squad?), make it an 18 game schedule, and include an extra bye week. This would stretch the regular season to 20 weeks rather than 17, and give us 3 fewer weeks to be so damn antsy.

Count me in.

[andybren]

If anything, the habit probably stems from the fact that we've got 8 months to kill in between a paltry 16 games (not counting playoffs), which is enough time to break down teams, coaches, management and players into their consituent atoms. Simply put, the fact we grade the draft starting a few days after it's finished and before the players have even stepped on the field only goes to show that we all have way, way, iway too much time on our hands. But we are fans -- which after all, comes from the word fanatic. It's what we do, even though it makes absolutely no sense at all.

Right there is your problem. It's the NFL's fault for giving us such a good product, and so little time to actually enjoy it. They should eliminate 2 pre-season games (do we really need 4 games to decide who moves to the practice squad?), make it an 18 game schedule, and include an extra bye week. This would stretch the regular season to 20 weeks rather than 17, and give us 3 fewer weeks to be so damn antsy.

If they extended the season, there would be more injuries. So they'd need to enlarge the rosters. And to enlarge the rosters, they'd need to extend the draft a few more rounds.

Which would lead to more picks to debate. And less time in which to debate them.

So they'd need to cut back the schedule...

But seriously, what I'd like to see is a 6-week rookie league in the spring/summer. Imagine NFL Europe but with good players.

[HoosierCat]

If they extended the season, there would be more injuries. So they'd need to enlarge the rosters. And to enlarge the rosters, they'd need to extend the draft a few more rounds.

Which would lead to more picks to debate. And less time in which to debate them.

So they'd need to cut back the schedule...

But seriously, what I'd like to see is a 6-week rookie league in the spring/summer. Imagine NFL Europe but with good players.

At this point, 40% of the league already plays 17 games a season, 21 if you count preseason, so I don't think trading off two preseason tilts for two more regular season games would significantly increase injuries. Net/net it would basically mean about 6 quarters more play for the starters.

I don't think they need to enlarge the rosters, but what they do need to do, even if the season stays the length it is, is get rid of that stupid game-day-inactive rule. WTF is the point?

I don't think the spring/summer league idea would work; what team would risk their rooks getting hurt?

[andybren]

But seriously, what I'd like to see is a 6-week rookie league in the spring/summer. Imagine NFL Europe but with good players.

I don't think the spring/summer league idea would work; what team would risk their rooks getting hurt?

Yeah, but it would be fun.

I don't actually expect it could/would happen, but how different would it be from the Senior Bowl, training camp, pre-season, etc.? You can get hurt during mini-camp wearing shorts.

The biggest hurdle would probably be getting the new guys under contract on time. Which means it would never happen.

[redsbengalsbucks]

A quick glance back at last years draft from the present and what I thought at the time.

Overall C/C+ upgrade to B-

Rd. 1 Joseph CB takes care of the most pressing need in my opinion. Insurance against injury to James/Oneal/Ratliff.

A+ (4.25)

same grade his play looks good 4.25

Rd. 2 Whitworth OL Insurance and negotiation leverage for sigining/not signing 3 of the returning OL this season. He is the most reliable OL in the draft and can play RT/LT/and G.

B (3.00)

upgrade his play looks better than I expected sooner than I expected 3.50

Rd. 3 Rucker DE Seems like a reach, may not even make the roster.

C- (1.75)

same grade he has shown nothing, injured 1.75

Rd. 4 Peko DL Another project DL pick, seems like he has potential to send Askew away.

B (3.00)

upgrade solid lineman will get better 3.50

Rd. 5 Nicholson LB Not a need and too slow to preform on ST

D (1.00)

same grade has not shown much, injured 1.00

Rd. 6 Mcneal QB/WR Our slash Athlete. Lots of potential and talent if used correctly he adds another dimension to the offense.

B (3.00)

down grade seems to be more trouble than some of the bad characters in the draft 2.0

Rd. 7A Kilmer WR/S No need for another WR. If he is going to be used as S backup he gets a better grade.

D/C (1.00/2.00) see change to overall grade

upgrade ST beast, looks good as S depth 3.0

Rd. 7B Brazell WR Speed to burn no experience, no need for another WR

F (0.00)

upgrade very impressive preseason, injured 2.0

overall

2.125 C/ 2.25 C+ upgrade to 2.625 B-

I am happy with this draft after week 13

[jjakq27]

Joseph, Whitworth, Peko and Kilmer have made this a very productive draft.

The '04 group looks pretty solid too with the exception of C. Perry. Caleb Miller, Robert Geathers, Landon Johnson and Madieu Williams have all made substantial contributions this season.

[semiotter]

We would be up the creek without a paddle cept for this draft....hey we would kinda be in the shape the SQUEELERS are...

[Kazkal]

giving mcneal higher then braz and kilmer makes your rating retarded

[schweinhart]

But if McNeal pans out and/or Kilmer can actually play safety, then that right there would be enough to kick it up to an A for me despite what I feel were reaches in rounds 3, 4, and 5 and a business decision over impact available on defense in the 2nd round.

Well McNeal doesn't appear to be headed anywhere this year other than to jail But Kilmer sure did flash that he can swing the secondary with the TD pick vs. Saints.

I'd say the Ahmad Brooks pick in the supplemental draft has to be included in this draft class even though it was a 2007 3rd round pick. He's on the field now and the pick sure took a lot of guts considering all the character flak.

For short term effectiveness -- much of which was not anticipated with Whitworth forced into the starting lineup at LT and Brooks able to hang in the middle -- there's no question IMO that the draft grade should go up from B to A.

[rwalling]

A+ We got playas that fit our system.

1. 3-4 Nose Takle

2. 3-4 OLB

3. 3-4 ILB

4. Most talented corner in the draft!

5. One huge ass RT, with time to learn.

3 projects. ( Tab perry was a project)

Might be the best draft yet.

Thanks I needed that!

Keepers- JJ, Big Whit, Peko, Kilmer, Brooks (next year technically)

Potential - Bennie and his jets

Am I a bust yet? - Rucker, AJ, Reggie (Answer: no, but you each better have a hell of an off-season)

B.

[redsbengalsbucks]

giving mcneal higher then braz and kilmer makes your rating retarded

Yes I agree that I was wrong to give Mcneal such a high grade in my original post. That is why he is now downgraded to 2.0, Kilmer is upgraded to 3.0 and Bennie is upgraded to 2.0 for his potential.

My point in bringing this post back up was that the "worst draft ever" crowd should remember they dont know as much about players as Marvin and Co.

[TJJackson]

I'd say the Ahmad Brooks pick in the supplemental draft has to be included in this draft class even though it was a 2007 3rd round pick. He's on the field now and the pick sure took a lot of guts considering all the character flak.

Completely wrong.

He is a 2007 draftee who we acquired a year early. His value this year can be added to the value he brings next year for purposes of evaluating the 2007 draft. He is not part of the 2006 draft class for purposes of evaluation of that class.

If you still want to argue that he is part of the 2006 class, try this: when the 2007 draft is complete, you then have to downgrade it's quality considerably because you in essence gave up a pick, or said another way, you get zero production and zero potential from the r3 pick.

the "worst draft ever" crowd should remember they dont know as much about players as Marvin and Co.

The "WDE" crowd taks note that in your ratings, Peko is rated as highly as Whitworth. Peko came up big in the preseason and has been minimally impactful since. Whitworth has played at arguably an all-pro level.

Kilmer has had a bigger impact than Peko and you have him rated lower

Give me a break.

We may well know less than Marvin, but you seem to know less than Spain

[Stripes]

I'd say the Ahmad Brooks pick in the supplemental draft has to be included in this draft class even though it was a 2007 3rd round pick. He's on the field now and the pick sure took a lot of guts considering all the character flak.

Completely wrong.

Completely subjective.

He is a 2007 draftee who we acquired a year early. His value this year can be added to the value he brings next year for purposes of evaluating the 2007 draft. He is not part of the 2006 draft class for purposes of evaluation of that class.

If you still want to argue that he is part of the 2006 class, try this: when the 2007 draft is complete, you then have to downgrade it's quality considerably because you in essence gave up a pick, or said another way, you get zero production and zero potential from the r3 pick.

Why would you have to downgrade the quality of the '07 draft? Every year there are many teams that don't have a pick due to previous dealings. If there is no pick, it can't have any impact on one's evaluation of the entire draft.

Brooks was a third round pick in the 2006 Supplemental Draft. Yes, that came at the cost of a 2007 pick, but that doesn't mean he must be forgotten until that point.

As for my evaluation of what we got in 2006... A-freakin'-plus. Some picks have yet to impress in any way, but we have five - count 'em FIVE - impact rookies on the team this year. Hard to beat that.

[TJJackson]

Completely subjective.

What I get from this is that we are both right, from our subjective points of view......

Why would you have to downgrade the quality of the '07 draft?

Very simply....you have one less pick...one less FIRST DAY pick

Every year there are many teams that don't have a pick due to previous dealings. If there is no pick, it can't have any impact on one's evaluation of the entire draft.

Sure it can

If you traded away your 2007 r3 pick for Lawrence Maroney, then the value of your r3 pick in 2007 is the value Lawrence Maroney brings to the table. You've done well

If you traded away your 2007 r3 pick for Fat Freddie Childress, then, uh, you haven't done quite so well :-)

Brooks was a third round pick in the 2006 Supplemental Draft. Yes, that came at the cost of a 2007 pick, but that doesn't mean he must be forgotten until that point.

Not forgotten. DELAYED. Delayed is not the same as forgotten. Not remotely. One spends 2007 draft picks to draft in the 2006 Supplemental. In essence, the 2006 supplemental is part of the 2007 draft. There is even a rule - you must own such a pick in next year's draft to bid it in the supplemental draft. When it comes time to eval the 2007 draft, I assure you everyone (agreen and his ilk excepted) will consider Ahmad Brooks to be the r3 pick for purposes of evaluating the value of that class.

Frankly, Marvin should have decided he needed to replace Odell prior to the 2006 regular draft and used the r3 to take a linebacker instead of the Slowman

[redsbengalsbucks]

I'd say the Ahmad Brooks pick in the supplemental draft has to be included in this draft class even though it was a 2007 3rd round pick. He's on the field now and the pick sure took a lot of guts considering all the character flak.

Completely wrong.

He is a 2007 draftee who we acquired a year early. His value this year can be added to the value he brings next year for purposes of evaluating the 2007 draft. He is not part of the 2006 draft class for purposes of evaluation of that class.

If you still want to argue that he is part of the 2006 class, try this: when the 2007 draft is complete, you then have to downgrade it's quality considerably because you in essence gave up a pick, or said another way, you get zero production and zero potential from the r3 pick.

the "worst draft ever" crowd should remember they dont know as much about players as Marvin and Co.

The "WDE" crowd taks note that in your ratings, Peko is rated as highly as Whitworth. Peko came up big in the preseason and has been minimally impactful since. Whitworth has played at arguably an all-pro level.

Kilmer has had a bigger impact than Peko and you have him rated lower

Give me a break.

We may well know less than Marvin, but you seem to know less than Spain

Dude Kilmer has looked good, but he has just started to play on defense, I love ST's but you cant call them as important as a good rotating D-Lineman. I admit that I have in my distant past, indulged in Spain's past time and have to acknowledge that he is kicking everybodies but in the pick'em contest, so thank you.

[TJJackson]

Dude Kilmer has looked good, but he has just started to play on defense, I love ST's but you cant call them as important as a good rotating D-Lineman.

First, despite the lip service, you are making the common mistake of undervaluing special teams play. If not for our poor special teams play (ala One Carry Perry) against Baltimore, we might well have swept them, as one example of many I could give you. If that had happened, we'd be tied with Baltimore at 8-4 and OWN the tiebreaker. We'd be talking about a second DIVISION TITLE rather than a wildcard slot.

Second, Kilmer has made some game changing plays. The good kind, not like ol' One Carry.

Peko hasn't.

The end

I'm not disrespecting Peko....he was outstanding in the preseason....but he has not made enarly the impact that Kilmer has had up to the moment

[BengalPimp]

Lets just put this part to rest. Brooks is not a part of the 2006 draft in terms of grading it. For right now the only way acquiring Brooks can be viewed is an offseason addition to the roster. That said, When it comes time to evaluate the 2007 draft, people will evaluate picks 1,2,4,5,6,7 the 3rd round pick will get a

grade of A at least for that time because it was used to acquire a player who was able to help the team in 2006, especially with the injuries they had. If you choose to in a couple of years try to re-grade the 2007 draft, then it will improve/downgrade depending on how well Brooks does in the future. For instance,

if something happens to Brooks(which I hope it doesnt) like He was a bust/had career ending injury/was suspended numerous times by the league/was cut by the team, people will say the 2007 draft would get a worse rating, because it used its 3rd round pick to acquire Brooks in the 2006 supplemental draft.

So, right now you have to see Brooks as just another offseason acquisition, like say, Rashad Jeanty

what Brooks does on the field this season and in the future will ultimately affect the grading of the 2007 draft, since you grade them on who and how they use their pick, and in this case, they used that pick to acquire a player(brooks) in the supplemental draft.

[TJJackson]

For right now the only way acquiring Brooks can be viewed is an offseason addition to the roster.

Given that two oter views have already been presented, it clearly ISN'T the **only* was it can be viewed

That said, When it comes time to evaluate the 2007 draft, people will evaluate picks 1,2,4,5,6,7 the 3rd round pick will get a

grade of A at least for that time because it was used to acquire a player who was able to help the team in 2006, especially with the injuries they had.

I would not say Brooks has contributed at an 'A' level. C at best, and that'd be stretching it.