KW on the way out?

[TJJackson]

Just responding to HoF, dude

Yeah, but you're obviously lost and posting in the wrong thread. This is the KDub rant.

No, I'm not. I responded to a reference made to the snitch in this very thread, ie the one below

It isn't a strong year for WR in the draft...but obviously so far no one thinks he is worth a 3rd.

There was some speculation that he was the infamous locker-room snitch who leaked l'affair Chad and that the Bengals were hoping to unload him...don't know if that's true but it would explain the apparent lack of any deal.

[Whur CHad At?]

Can we please talk about KDubb?!

[Stripes]

Can we please talk about KDubb?!

Sure.

I say he will stick around, simply because of the loss of Kevin Walter. We do have an exremely deep receiving corps, but beyond the #4 spot, I don't think any of the options we'll have in training camp will look better to Marvin and crew than Kdub. Depending on what they want to do with Tab Perry, he may even get that #4 spot.

[HoosierCat]

Point blank: Unless you can argue that the Bengals could realistically expect to get a 3rd rounder for Washington the tender/trade rant makes little sense.

There was nothing unrealistic about getting a 3rd for KW. I said that months ago in one of the KW threads, and as I recall there was wide agreement. It was by no means a certainty but KW had shown he could play in the league and it remains a weak year for WR in the draft.

Washington wants to play somewhere where he isn't considered an insurance policy.

Exactly -- and what does it say about the Bengals' interest in him that his role is "insurance policy"?

Quick edit: little blast from the past:

if I have a choice between keeping him and getting a 3rd round pick... I'll take the 3rd round pick every damn time.

Yeah, me too.

Agreed. I may be the last living K-Dub supporter, but he's lost his role on this team, and Tab Perry is likely to make a push for a bigger role as a wideout. That said, offer the tender and see what happens. The amount of cap funds temporarily tied up aren't worth talking about and won't resrict anything the Bengals attempt to do in free agency due to the cap space they have.

http://forums.bengalszone.com/index.php?showtopic=9503&st=20

[HairOnFire]

Exactly -- and what does it say about the Bengals' interest in him that his role is "insurance policy"?

What is says is the Bengals, for multiple reasons, have an interest in having some insurance at an important position. And before you discount what that means I'm going to remind you that the Bengals recently spent a 1st round pick on an insurance policy.

[HoosierCat]

What is says is the Bengals, for multiple reasons, have an interest in having some insurance at an important position.

We already have Tab Perry. We picked up Antonio Chatman, whom many here seem convinced is a stud-in-the-making. You want a 6th wideout, there's perennial camp favorite Jamal Broussard. I've nothing against our 4-6 receivers being KW, Tab and Chatman, but Tab, Chatman and Broussard is hardly a big step down.

[HairOnFire]

Agreed. I may be the last living K-Dub supporter, but he's lost his role on this team, and Tab Perry is likely to make a push for a bigger role as a wideout. That said, offer the tender and see what happens. The amount of cap funds temporarily tied up aren't worth talking about and won't resrict anything the Bengals attempt to do in free agency due to the cap space they have.

Dead on, as I would expect. Cheech Henry had taken Washington's job. What you won't find in the above, or anywhere else, is a statement from me that the Bengals should have no remaining interest in Washington or that their level of interest wouldn't have increased after Chris Henry went gangsta. Simply put, I've always been in favor of using the tender to restrict Washington's ability to move on precisely because I think his value to the Bengals is greater than his cost.

BTW, while you're searching old threads see if you can't find my posts about using the tender as a bargaining tool to hopefully get a cheap multi-year contract for Washington....'cause I said that too.

[HairOnFire]

I've nothing against our 4-6 receivers being KW, Tab and Chatman, but Tab, Chatman and Broussard is hardly a big step down.

If Henry gets shelved, which many consider likely, everyone moves up a slot. If a single injury happens to one of the starters everyone moves up again.

Frankly, it doesn't take a doomsday exercise to produce a scenario where Washington would find himself as the 2nd, 3rd or 4th wideout. In fact, lets say Henry gets suspended and TJ gets dinged in the preseason. Tab makes a preseason push, but Washington holds him off. Chatman settles into the slot role....essentially killing Broussards last hope.

How hard would it be for you to find a playing role for Washington?

[BengalByTheBay]

Okay, I'll bite on this one. I've never really hated Kdub and, oddly enough, he seems to have wound up about the same place this pre-season that he was last year, with Smokey/Cheech playing the role of Pdub in a way. They dealt Pdub moving Wash up and then Cheech came in and challenged for essentially the same spot. With Cheech and Chatman clouding things up a little, I think we remain in a pretty good spot. If Kdub signs the tender and is signed by another team -- rejoicing is had in Bengaldom as we can probably do something good with that 3rd round pick (this seems to be the only generally agreeable point). If he signs and plays, we could certainly have been worse off. The best part about Kdub's game is that he catches a disproportionately high number of TD's. Production doesn't suck. I know everybody hates his 1st down celebrado, but whachagonnado -- he's a (very) poor man's CJ. He does drop some easy catches -- I'll grant you that. but he's not horrible, especially at #3 or 4. Given more PT, he might even surprise....especially if he's working for another contract elsewhere. This just seems like a win-win to me.

[Kazkal]

kffl.com Bengals | K .Washington receives no offers; will return in 2006

Fri, 21 Apr 2006 22:29:47 -0700

Chick Ludwig, of the Dayton Daily News, reports restricted free agent WR Kelley Washington (Bengals) received no offers in free agency and he will be back with the Cincinnati Bengals in 2006. If Washington doesn't sign the Bengals' one-year tender offer of $721,600 by June 15, the team can substitute it with a $418,000 tender, which is a 10 percent increase from his 2005 salary of $380,000. "Kelley's happy in Cincinnati," agent Chad Alan Speck said. "He's just exploring his options before he signs the tender. It's really got to happen by June 15, but he'll make a decision well before then."

[BlainThePain]

I think Marvin wants him back. He's not the snitch and, as I recall, didn't Marvin already say the snitch was gone.

[Kazkal]

yup yup

[HoosierCat]

Dead on, as I would expect.

Yup. KW has no future in Cincy, his only role now is insurance against injury or long-term suspension, and if neither of those things happen he may not even be on the roster in September. He was tendered for no other reason then that's what you do, in hopes some other team might bite. No one did, and he'll come back to compete for a roster spot.

[KiLBurn]

Baltimore is actively looking to trade out of the 13 slot to somewhere in the 20's in exchange for a third round pick. Could we offer KW and pick 24 to move up and nab either Bunkley or Ngata?

They are looking to pick up a #3 reciever (Washington) and a safety (Whitner with #24).

[walshfan]

Only thing I can say about Washington is that he comes cheap.

Even without Henry for a game or two the team still has their starters plus Tab Perry and PK Sams if necessary... I dont think the signing or re-signing of Washington is a priority with them at this time....

No team will give a third for him....Id say he'll be in stripes when all said and done...

[HoosierCat]

Baltimore is actively looking to trade out of the 13 slot to somewhere in the 20's in exchange for a third round pick. Could we offer KW and pick 24 to move up and nab either Bunkley or Ngata?

They are looking to pick up a #3 reciever (Washington) and a safety (Whitner with #24).

Interesting idea. But, assuming both teams were willing to do an intra-divisional trade, I don't think that the 24 + KW is enough value for the 13th pick. Per ye olde draft pick trade value chart, 13 is worth 1,150 points, while 24 is worth 740 points. Even if you grant KW value equal to his original selection (No. 65) that's still only 265, which leaves you 145 points shy. You'd have to throw in some more picks either this year or next.

[walshfan]

I think Baltimore would be more incllined to talk trade if the wideout we were talking about was Tab Perry instead of Washington....

Our 24th pick and Tab Perry for their 13th...

You dont get something for peanuts and Washington's value is just that

[KiLBurn]

I think Baltimore would be more incllined to talk trade if the wideout we were talking about was Tab Perry instead of Washington....

Our 24th pick and Tab Perry for their 13th...

You dont get something for peanuts and Washington's value is just that

KDub has more value for Baltimore than he does for us. They are looking for a #3 reciever, whereas we are pretty deep at the position. By dropping back to the #24 slot, Baltimore could very likely pick up Donte Whitner or Jason Allen and fill 2 holes with 1 pick.

As far as the difference in value, maybe we can throw in Quincy Wilson, since they are looking for a young RB to groom behind Lewis and Williams.

[walshfan]

I think Baltimore would be more incllined to talk trade if the wideout we were talking about was Tab Perry instead of Washington....

Our 24th pick and Tab Perry for their 13th...

You dont get something for peanuts and Washington's value is just that

KDub has more value for Baltimore than he does for us. They are looking for a #3 reciever, whereas we are pretty deep at the position. By dropping back to the #24 slot, Baltimore could very likely pick up Donte Whitner or Jason Allen and fill 2 holes with 1 pick.

As far as the difference in value, maybe we can throw in Quincy Wilson, since they are looking for a young RB to groom behind Lewis and Williams.

Ok Kilburn.. Playing devil's advocate here Ill be the Ravens GM ...Im telling the Bengals that since KDub is your 4th or 5th receiver now and he has no value as a special teameer I want a wideout that can play the third spot and also bring more to the table... Tab Perry can play special teams and return kicks as well as playing the wideout.. thats who I want.. I have 2 veteran runners in Anderson and Lewis so I dont want a practice squad player... Perry and your 24th for our 13th... Deal or not?

[KiLBurn]

I think Baltimore would be more incllined to talk trade if the wideout we were talking about was Tab Perry instead of Washington....

Our 24th pick and Tab Perry for their 13th...

You dont get something for peanuts and Washington's value is just that

KDub has more value for Baltimore than he does for us. They are looking for a #3 reciever, whereas we are pretty deep at the position. By dropping back to the #24 slot, Baltimore could very likely pick up Donte Whitner or Jason Allen and fill 2 holes with 1 pick.

As far as the difference in value, maybe we can throw in Quincy Wilson, since they are looking for a young RB to groom behind Lewis and Williams.

Ok Kilburn.. Playing devil's advocate here Ill be the Ravens GM ...Im telling the Bengals that since KDub is your 4th or 5th receiver now and he has no value as a special teameer I want a wideout that can play the third spot and also bring more to the table... Tab Perry can play special teams and return kicks as well as playing the wideout.. thats who I want.. I have 2 veteran runners in Anderson and Lewis so I dont want a practice squad player... Perry and your 24th for our 13th... Deal or not?

In a heartbeat. I like Tab Perry but I can replace him with the 3rd rounder that I didn't have to give up.

[walshfan]

I think Baltimore would be more incllined to talk trade if the wideout we were talking about was Tab Perry instead of Washington....

Our 24th pick and Tab Perry for their 13th...

You dont get something for peanuts and Washington's value is just that

KDub has more value for Baltimore than he does for us. They are looking for a #3 reciever, whereas we are pretty deep at the position. By dropping back to the #24 slot, Baltimore could very likely pick up Donte Whitner or Jason Allen and fill 2 holes with 1 pick.

As far as the difference in value, maybe we can throw in Quincy Wilson, since they are looking for a young RB to groom behind Lewis and Williams.

Ok Kilburn.. Playing devil's advocate here Ill be the Ravens GM ...Im telling the Bengals that since KDub is your 4th or 5th receiver now and he has no value as a special teameer I want a wideout that can play the third spot and also bring more to the table... Tab Perry can play special teams and return kicks as well as playing the wideout.. thats who I want.. I have 2 veteran runners in Anderson and Lewis so I dont want a practice squad player... Perry and your 24th for our 13th... Deal or not?

In a heartbeat. I like Tab Perry but I can replace him with the 3rd rounder that I didn't have to give up.

We may have a deal then.. nice working with you!!!!! ( P.S. could you throw in Odell too? just asking)

[andybren]

Wow, this thread is all over the place.

First, we'd have to be crazy to make any trades with the Ravens. That being said, I don't think anybody trades for a #3-6 receiver. This isn't baseball, where you trade a minor league pitcher for a utility infielder. If the Ravens want(ed) a WR, they could sign one in free agency or draft one next weekend.

Second, on KDub's worth...there's a huge gap between signing a player to a long-term contract and not even offering him the minimum RFA tender. Did anybody expect that a team would give up a 3rd round pick for KDub? No. But that doesn't mean you don't make the tender. It's not like Marvin can ask for a 5th round pick instead.

KDub is a role player. He's not demanding attention in a positive or negative way, so he won't get the big money, but he's probably not going to get cut either.

Fact is, the only reason he's even a topic of conversation is that he was a 3rd round pick. And the dance, too. If we hadn't noticed the Squirrel in his first year, he'd be Tab Perry without the special teams highlights. In other words, he's Ron Dugans.