Pat Kirwan's Mock Draft/Nick Mangold

[ArmyBengal]

If we are up to pick, and Mangold seems to be our best option...Trade down.

And even if we can't find a trade down partner, pick the next best defensive player.....

NO MANGOLD.

I have no idea why he keeps getting pimped here except that some of you think we should just take players from Ohio State only, which is ridiculous.

TJ, I don't see it as wanting to draft players form Ohio State as the sole basis, but rather looking at our o-line situation, but I think that will get worked out and I'm more than ok with the o-line backups at this point and agree wholeheartedly with you on ---> NO MANGOLD !!!

WHODEY !!!

[TJJackson]

The Pat Kirwan mock is already being discussed in another thread (Click here to read it), so this thread will probably be merged with that one at some point

[BTG]

The Sporting News also has them taking Mangold, but again, it's not the Bengals style to reach for a center when they have two players they're really high on.

Kirwan and TSN need to do more research.

Incidentally, the top two most accurate mock draft analysts over the past three years both have the Bengals taking Donte Whitner at 24.

[derekshank]

The Sporting News also has them taking Mangold, but again, it's not the Bengals style to reach for a center when they have two players they're really high on.

Kirwan and TSN need to do more research.

Incidentally, the top two most accurate mock draft analysts over the past three years both have the Bengals taking Donte Whitner at 24.

I'd be happy with that. Buckeye fans know that he is the best player on that team along with A.J. Hawk. He has been consistant and a star for the past couple years. He would be a very solid safe pick.

[BTG]

He's an excellent run-stopping/blitzing safety & his pass coverage is above average (a little better than Doss). I like him really well and I'd be happy with him at 24.

Now just imagine if they'd have drafted C. Gamble two years ago instead of Chris freaking Perry (his official name).

[ArmyBengal]

Yet another discussion about Mangold...

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO !!!

WHODEY !!!

[BTG]

I'm sorry, AB, I didn't catch that. Are you against the Bengals drafting Mangold?

[ArmyBengal]

I'm sorry, AB, I didn't catch that. Are you against the Bengals drafting Mangold?

It's all good BTG !!!

I'm against it, due to the fact I believe the Bengals can address the o-line extensions and I'm happy with our backups we currently have. I will say this, as I did in another thread, if the Bengals feel they can't afford someone, then an o-lineman becomes a more attractive pick, but I just don't see it. The center position is filled with Braham, we drafted Guycheck, and the best o-linmen that year in Wilkerson. Depending on Wilkerson's status, that will tell a big story. I just think defense is a MUCH bigger need at this point.

WHODEY !!!

[BTG]

I agree 100% with you. I like Mangold, but not in the first round. I mean, if they're hell bent on taking a center, they could pick up Greg Eslinger in the second (or maybe third) round.

[AGrizzlyBaer]

i would cry if we took a center ...

[walshfan]

I'm not a big fan of the draft Nick Mangold scenario. That said, I've got to wonder if the presence of Ghiaciuc and Wilkerson is enough to kill the idea outright. The Bengals have very little invested in both of those players, and Ghiaciuc wasn't exactly named the center of the future when he was drafted. Instead, his selection was explained by the need for depth at the interior positions and his potential to become a starter at C when Braham calls it a day. Maybe Ghiacuic becomes a future starter, or maybe he doesn't....but the investment of a 4th round pick probably isn't enough to prevent the Bengals from CONSIDERING drafting Mangold if the draft doesn't fall the way they'd like. In addition, this is a very weak draft for teams looking to add a C.

As for Wilkerson, I'll argue that his UFA signing was a stroke of brilliance no matter how it plays out, but there's never been a guarantee that he'll ever return to form, and we are rapidly approaching a point in time where a decision on his injury recovery and playing future will have to be made. If the answers reached aren't positive, and the Bengals have no plans for Braham beyond this season, then the selection of Mangold becomes far more attractive.

Your articulation on the offensive line matter is exactly how I feel.. Im not downgrading the two centers, Im just saying Im not sold on them either... keep the line strong is all Im saying... If it means drafting the best center in the draft instead of a fourth rounder then do it... they have too much invested in the franchise to allow any inadequacies in front of him.....

[TJJackson]

I'd argue that based on what we have seen, particular Ghiaciuc in the Jacskonville game, that our needs to improve the defense is far greater than our need to add yet another young center to the crowded mix, a mix that should be allowed to prove itself one way or the other this year.

Drafting Mangold will be like telling the two young talented centers we have - well, we've already given up on you.

Why do that, when they've shown nothing but promise (and some production on the field, in Ghiaciuc's case)?

[HairOnFire]

Drafting Mangold will be like telling the two young talented centers we have - well, we've already given up on you.

I feel like I'm the wrong guy to be arguing for Mangold, but Wilkerson's injury was said to be career threatening when it happened, and that was some time ago. One way or another he's going to be judged fairly soon as being ready to go or they'll be tempted to move on. Those discussions have to be taking place now, in some form, prior to the draft. Plus, I'm pretty sure Wilk's contract was a 2 year deal with an out clause that can be triggered if he doesn't make the roster this year.

BTW, I was watching the NFL Networks most recent Draft Special, this one dealing with team needs. Marcedes Lewis was mentioned as a possibility for #24 when another team looking for a TE was being discussed. But when the time came for the Bengals projected pick to be made none other than this threads veryown Pat Kirwan mentioned that Sam Adams was a part time player who doesn't have much time left...so he didn't consider the Bengals done at DT. The pick was Claude Wroten, and the explanation given was Marvin's history of ignoring character issues when a player was more talented than anyone else on the board.

The draft can't get here quickly enough.

[TJJackson]

Wilkerson's injury was said to be career threatening when it happened, and that was some time ago. One way or another he's going to be judged fairly soon as being ready to go or they'll be tempted to move on. Those discussions have to be taking place now, in some form, prior to the draft. Plus, I'm pretty sure Wilk's contract was a 2 year deal with an out clause that can be triggered if he doesn't make the roster this year.

I'm sure you've already read it, but in respect to your argument about questions surrounding Wilkerson, please re-read http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5193. In essence, it says he's rusty, having only practiced three weeks last year, but he's healthy and has an excellent work ethic.

Not to mention Ghiaciuc, who is also healthy and displayed considerable promise to the point of earnign a rare and high compliment from Big Willy following the Jacksonville game

There's simply no reason to draft another young C. None.

That fact that neither cost much is a VERY good thing, as the salary being poured into our veteran OLs is goign to be staggering in the near future. Frankly, we can't afford another high priced OL.

[walshfan]

So willie gives some love to bluto for one game and your thinking thats all it takes to make him the starting center for that reason..

damn your easy ...

fact is Wilk may not come back and bluto is too damn slow to be anything more than a straight up run blocker.. put his butt at backup guard or center..

fact is Mangold has enough quickness to pull and get to the second level of defenders.. I doubt bluto does...

If you want a mediocre line in the future keep thinking along the lines you are now....

willie said he did good... big deal

[TJJackson]

Fact is that you have an upper part of your body inserted into a lower orifice.

How many compliments has Mangold gotten for play at the NFL level? Zero

How many quality starts has Mangold had at the NFL level? Zero

How many NFL snaps has Mangold taken? Zero

How many NFL practices has Mangold been to? Zero

Ghiacuic and Wilkerson have shown some things at the NFL level. Mangold has not. He is all potential at this point. On the other hand, G and W have each at least shown some actual promise - more G than W - and it is too early to decide, particularly in the face of GOOD REPORTS ON EACH that they need to be replaced.

Of course, you also have no idea that these were two of the top rated centers in last year's draft, just like your boy Mangold.

My advice: go to EBay and buy yourself as many clues as you can afford. You need them.

[Bengalbob]

fact is Mangold has enough quickness to pull and get to the second level of defenders.. I doubt bluto does...

If you want a mediocre line in the future keep thinking along the lines you are now....

willie said he did good... big deal

Both Mangold and Ghiacuic are the same size (6'4" 300) and had the same pre-draft 40 time (don't know their short shuttle times). I'd say they are fairly equivalent players, athletically. I think the thing you can't forget is that last year's center crop was considered outstanding (similar to TE and LB this year). Where would Mangold have gone last year? Ahead of Chris Spencer in R1? I think Ghiacuic and Jason Brown lasted to the 4th because everyone knew there was depth in the draft and could wait. Is everyone jumping on Mangold just because he's the only show in town? Maybe . . .

[Stripes]

Well I don't know, a lot of analysts and scouts have labeled Mangold as one of the best centers they've seen coming into the draft in the last ten years. I don't know whether that's just more lame hype or if it is something to be really considered. Either way, I don't think we need him. If we were drafting number one, we wouldn't take Reggie Bush simply because we have depth at running back aleady. Sure, our needs at center might be a bit greater than those at running back, but it's the same concept.

"Best player available" does have limits.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I say we draft Nick "Mangled" just because he has a fantastic wrestling name.

[HairOnFire]

I'm sure you've already read it, but in respect to your argument about questions surrounding Wilkerson, please re-read http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5193. In essence, it says he's rusty, having only practiced three weeks last year, but he's healthy and has an excellent work ethic.

I read that article when it was first written, and I just read it again at your request. So you tell me what this statement from that article really means.

"Whether he’s the same guy that was rated the ’05 draft’s top center on some boards before the knee injury remains to be seen. You just don’t know."

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah, Guycheck only had one start and is to slow... Tell that to the best DT combo in the league that he took care of for the duration of the game...

As for best center in the last 10 years, wasn't the same thing said of Jake Grove a year or two ago ?? Hmmmm...

Oh well, still not interested !!!

WHODEY !!!

[HairOnFire]

Well I don't know, a lot of analysts and scouts have labeled Mangold as one of the best centers they've seen coming into the draft in the last ten years. I don't know whether that's just more lame hype or if it is something to be really considered. Either way, I don't think we need him.

I'm guessing that most of the praise that Mangold receives is based upon his nearly flawless technique and his intelligence. Due to those factors there's almost zero possibility that he'll bust in the NFL. As an athlete I think he falls short of several highly rated centers who have been drafted in the last decade, and I think he'll have to improve his strength to become a top center in the NFL. But that's doable.

As for whether the Bengals need a center badly enough to consider one with the 1st round pick, no...I don't think a strong argument can be made for that, and I haven't tried to do so. But I also don't think it can be ruled out, as many of you are doing, due to the presence of Ghiacuic and Wilkerson. They simply aren't proven enough for any of us to sleep well at night should Braham be lost.

[Stripes]

As for whether the Bengals need a center badly enough to consider one with the 1st round pick, no...I don't think a strong argument can be made for that, and I haven't tried to do so. But I also don't think it can be ruled out, as many of you are doing, due to the presence of Ghiacuic and Wilkerson. They simply aren't proven enough for any of us to sleep well at night should Braham be lost.

I agree with this. I don't want Mangold personally, but haven't ruled him out as a possibility. If we do draft him, I'll be annoyed, but you're right... I'd be more comfortable with him waiting behind Braham should there be an injury than either of the other two.

[Kazkal]

He has changed to liking us take claude wroten and mangold too the steelers

[schweinhart]

I could swear I just heard Kirwan say the Steelers might take Rod Wright No wonder no team wants him evaluating talent for them any more!

But there's one final point about Mangold that the Bengals will probably consider. He's got the quicks to play pulling guard. With Steinbach's future as a Bengal up in the $$$$ air, the focus might be to guarantee they got a left guard who can pull well enough to pull off the Bengals favorite Rudi run right play plus pass protect and otherwise run block well. Not sure Mangold could spell Levi at left tackle the way Steinbach did, but he might have the feet for it if not long enough arms.

Buckethead is hard to kill off and Ghiaciuc did a solid job vs. the Jags, which was about as hard of a test as he could've faced his first time out, so the urgency for center this year is not there. But in 2007, the Bengals would be looking most likely at no Braham, probably no Steinbach, Kooistra as a free agent, Larry Moore gone, Ben Wilkerson perhaps still a question mark or a goner and the cell phone the Bengals called last time to get Jerry Fontenot to drive up from New Orelans at the onset of Hurricane Ivan no longer in service.