Anyone Pro Manny Lawson ?

[TJJackson]

There is a new article on SI.com by Don Banks, in which he lists and describes 8 quick-impact rookies, ones who he believes have the very best chance to become contributors to their teams success right away.

You'll never guess who made the list :-)

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writ....rookies/2.html

[TJJackson]

Look who came up BIG, appearing right next to the name "Vernon Davis", in another scouting article? Yep, my man Manny

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5511470

[Kazkal]

I am very pro Manny Lawson.

6'6" 241 lbs runs a 4.41 40 with a 39.5 vert. jump and WR times in the 3 cone and shuttle. To top that off he had 19 TFL last season and 10.5 sacks and he recently graduated NC State with an engineering degree, whats not to like he was a team captain for the Wolfpack last year as well.

wasen't he 6'4?

[Kazkal]

I honestly think he could be the next Jevon Kearse.....but we'll have to wait and see.....

imo he's the next R. Mathis

[TJJackson]

I am very pro Manny Lawson.

6'6" 241 lbs runs a 4.41 40 with a 39.5 vert. jump and WR times in the 3 cone and shuttle. To top that off he had 19 TFL last season and 10.5 sacks and he recently graduated NC State with an engineering degree, whats not to like he was a team captain for the Wolfpack last year as well.

wasen't he 6'4?

He's actually 6 foot, 5 and a half inches, and typically weighs 245. Has the frame to get to at least 260 without losing much speed or quicks.

He also ran track. A defensive lineman, running track.......

At a track event, he had a fifty foot triple jump. Not a typo. 50 foot.

I guarentee that if you spend the time to research the guy, even though you may not think we need to spend pick 24 on a linebacker-sized defensive end.......you'll come around to flat out wanting this guy in stripes......

He's a phenom....Vernon Davis and Mario Williams are getting all the publicity this year but this guy is this year's Shawne Merriman

[bengalboomer7]

WOrd is San Fran could be looking at DE moving to 22 with Denver. This is the guy(Manny Lawson) all along, and i want him as a full time defensive end in the 4-3(gotta specify that 4-3 ) The guy is a freak

[Kazkal]

Indeed, Kiwanuka had some problems at the Senior Bowl. I still think he's a better option at end than Lawson.

I haven't been a kiwa pimp but I dont see how people can knock him down just because of senior bowl vs best tackle in the draft yet have gabe fly off boards because he did good in senior bowl yet never did nothing before that

I am very pro Manny Lawson.

6'6" 241 lbs runs a 4.41 40 with a 39.5 vert. jump and WR times in the 3 cone and shuttle. To top that off he had 19 TFL last season and 10.5 sacks and he recently graduated NC State with an engineering degree, whats not to like he was a team captain for the Wolfpack last year as well.

wasen't he 6'4?

He's actually 6 foot, 5 and a half inches, and typically weighs 245. Has the frame to get to at least 260 without losing much speed or quicks.

He also ran track. A defensive lineman, running track.......

At a track event, he had a fifty foot triple jump. Not a typo. 50 foot.

I guarentee that if you spend the time to research the guy, even though you may not think we need to spend pick 24 on a linebacker-sized defensive end.......you'll come around to flat out wanting this guy in stripes......

He's a phenom....Vernon Davis and Mario Williams are getting all the publicity this year but this guy is this year's Shawne Merriman

shawne merriman is overrated,I remember watching on nfl network the reason why merriman was getting the sacks was because of the other LB chasing brees in too merriman/ taking blockers

[BengalPappaw]

No thanks on Lawson. His height is excellent, but he's too light. He has the build to be a good linebacker, but I don't see him making that adjustment well. Pollack is a better version of the same player in my opinion. If we want a new DE, then gimme Kiwanuka. If we want to replace Simmons, then give me Greenway, Sims, or whichever linebacker falls to #24.

I agree with you.

I watched a Freshman OT (Gaither, Maryland) stuff him all day.

Manny has great speed -- but he needs that to catch the runners that blow by him when he is rushing the passer. He is also a sucker for screen passes. Gets pushed around on running plays.

So what does he have --- SPEED. One technique -- try to blow by the OT, if that doesn't work, he is done. Please note that in college it did work a frequently.

He does pursue well, doesn't quit on plays, but he doesn't add much to the Bengals.

BTW In the NCS vs BC game -- Kiwi did looked better than Lawson, but that appeared to be more due to the weakness in the NCS offensive line and the superiority of the BC O-line.

Take Cromartie!!

[TJJackson]

Did any of you read the provided links?

[BengalPappaw]

Yes -- did you read what I said -- he isn't worth a first round pick for the Bengals.

[TJJackson]

Pat Kirwan named 16 players he'd go to bat for in the draft room

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story/9382793

Yep, you guessed it - he's number one on the list.

Gil Brandt has Lawson as his number 2 DE (after Mario Williams) and says while he realizes he might be moved to OLB, he does feel his best spot is DE. I concur.

[TJJackson]

Looks like Lawson has some support from an unlikely source!

I feel wrong {about Arrington} and relieved at the same time. However start looking at DE/LB tweener s in the draft there was areason that Marvin was interested in him.

[Bobcat Bengal]

I have a sinking feeling that the Patriots will grab him with their pick if we don't trade up.

BB is getting McGinest part duex with that guy.

[TJJackson]

With NFL scouts comparing him to a cross between Jevon Kearse and Jason Taylor, no doubt he's in consideration. Seems like they'd be interested in a corner, rb, and a wr as well

[Wraith]

Here's the NFL.Com Brandt article.

1. Mario Williams, N.C. State (6-7, 295, 4.70)

Williams had a complete workout at the Combine. He ran his two 40s in 4.66 and 4.72. He also recorded a 40½-inch vertical jump, a 10-foot long jump, a 4.36 short shuttle, a 7.19 three-cone drill and 35 bench presses. He played running back and defensive end in high school. He averaged 10 yards per carry as a running back, notched 13 sacks and blocked five kicks. He graduated high school in three-and-a-half years and entered N.C. State in December 2002. He started 13 games in 2003, 11 in 2004 and 12 in 2005. He had 25½ career sacks. A player much like the Panthers' Julius Peppers, Williams has great upside and is an outstanding athlete. He's very strong (35 lifts), and can be a player like the Patriots' Richard Seymour and play both end and tackle at a high level. Because of his size, things come very easy for him and he sometimes takes a play or two off. He needs to play with more urgency every play. He should be an All-Pro, Pro Bowl-type player.

2. Manny Lawson, N.C. State (6-5 3/8, 241, 4.45)

Lawson had a complete workout at the Combine. He ran his two 40s in 4.43 and 4.46 and recorded a 39½-inch vertical jump, a 10-foot-4 long jump, a 4.18 short shuttle, a 6.90 three-cone drill and 23 bench presses. He played defensive end and running back in high school, and qualified for the State track meet in four different events. He played as a true freshman in 2002 and led the nation with three blocked punts. He also competed on the track team in the spring. He started three games in 2003 and won the ACC long jump in track competition with a 24-foot-3½ jump. Last season, he started 11 games at defensive end and had 10½ sacks. Lawson has great athletic ability with above-average toughness. He has very good pass-rush ability and very good quickness. He lacks bulk, but he should be able to put some on. He will be 22 years old in July. I think his best position is defensive end, but he most likely can play outside linebacker and can also be a very good special teams player.

Kamerion Wimbley's versatility makes him a perfect fit in a 3-4 defensive scheme.

3. Kamerion Wimbley, Florida State (6-3 7/8, 248, 4.63)

He had a complete workout at the Combine. He ran his two 40s in 4.61 and 4.65 seconds. He also recorded a 38½-inch vertical jump, a 10-foot-9 long jump, a 4.48 short shuttle, a 6.97 three-cone drill and 24 bench presses. Wimbley played defensive end, linebacker, quarterback and wide receiver in high school and was also his team's punter. He finished school in three-and-a-half years and enrolled early at Florida State. He played as a true freshman in 2002. He played and didn't start in 2003, started two games in 2004 and started 13 games in 2005. In 2004, he had 7½ sacks and four batted balls, and he played the last four games with an injury. He weighed 210 pounds when he first came to Florida State. He's an outstanding athlete, much like DeMarcus Ware was last year (drafted with the 11th overall choice by Dallas). This player can play defensive end or linebacker in a 3-4 defense. He has the frame to weigh 270. He has great character, great work habits and the burst to get to the quarterback. He is a Pro Bowl-type player.

4. Tamba Hali, Penn State (6-3, 275, 4.88)

Hali did not work out at the Combine, but did do everything at Penn State's Pro Day March 16. His Pro Day weight was 263, down 12 pounds from the Combine. He ran his 40s in 4.86 and 4.88 and recorded a 29½-inch vertical jump, an 8-foot-10 long jump, a 4.31 short shuttle, a 7.28 three-cone drill and 18 bench presses. He played as a true freshman in 2002, playing 156 snaps. He started 11 games at defensive tackle in 2003, and started 23 games at defensive end in 2004 and 2005. He notched 11 sacks in 2005. He's a good, not great, athlete who plays hard on every down. He has long arms (33 5/8) and good quickness. He plays faster than his timed speed. He had just three sacks going into the 2005 season, and he has had a hard time going against big tackles. He needs to get stronger, and I see him being a good, rather than a great, player.

Gocong was no. 5 notice Kiwanuka on there anywhere? He was 6th...i.e. second rounder. I just think you guys argueing against Lawson are missing the boat, I think Kiwi can be a good football player, I think Lawson can/will be great. What is not in this write up is that he graduated from North Carolina State with a civil engineering degree from a notoriously hard program and wants to be an architect after his playing days are over, he was a team captain.

Just for information for those who don't know, Gil Brandt started the scouting combine while being the head scout for Dallas, drafted the triplets as well as Eric Williams and Larry Allen (both late draft steals) and basicly started the whole "player analysis" movement getting the first computer doing draft tabulations. Is the guy always right, no, but he is worth ten Mel Kipers in my book.

[TJJackson]

No thanks on Lawson. His height is excellent, but he's too light.

I'm just wondering if you'd have been interested in Robert Mathis or Dwight Freeney if they had been available in the free agent market.....

[Stripes]

Freeney would be lovely. He's a rare one though. It's hard for me to expect smaller ends to succeed simply because Freeney did it. As for Mathis? No thanks. I think his success is a direct result of Freeney's success. Put him on a mediocre line like ours, and he produces mediocre statistics, in my opinion.

[BengalPappaw]

No thanks on Lawson. His height is excellent, but he's too light.

I'm just wondering if you'd have been interested in Robert Mathis or Dwight Freeney if they had been available in the free agent market.....

Are you getting a commission for all this hype?

You've got to be kidding -- or drinking too much of you own Koolaid.

Dwight Freeney ran 4.38 and 4.45 at 263 -- thats 20# more than Lawson. Freeney pump the 225 28 times vs Lawsons 23 reps. Bottom line Freeney is BIGGER and STRONGER.

If you were not so hypnotized by Lawson "speed" numbers and would take the time to watch him play, you would see that he gets handled pretty easily by good OTs. He gets run over on sweeps toward him. He gets suckered in on screen plays to his side. Lawson has one technique -- run full speed at the QB. It works in college. And he is successful at chasing down plays from behind -- so he is effective at plays run toward the other side.

BUT, he is NOT worth a first round pick by the Bengals.

[TJJackson]

No on the commission question

I don't think a guy becomes team captain and defensive MVP (on the same team as Super Mario Williams and John McCargo) if what you say is true.

I don't think you get honored in these ways - by your teammates - if all you can do is "run real fast".

I'll add here that Freeney is a lot shorter than Lawson at a position where height and long arms (which Lawson also has) are at a premium. Being a lot shorter, he has less capacity over the course of his career to add playing weight if he needs it.

If you read http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/profiles/freeney_dwight.htm, I think you'll find a large number of similarities between the two as of their respective draft day......too small, legs too skinney, not enough power, etc etc etc

4.38 40, eh? Are you saying that simply because Freeney ran a 4.38 that the 4.43 Lawson ran is not impressive? I don't think that's what you are saying, but it seems to be implied.

[BengalPappaw]

No on the commission question

I don't think a guy becomes team captain and defensive MVP (on the same team as Super Mario Williams and John McCargo) if what you say is true.

I don't think you get honored in these ways - by your teammates - if all you can do is "run real fast".

Sorry, to hear you are not benefitting financially on all this hype.

About his selection as team captain and MVP -- he was effective at the college level where some of the OT are not going to make it big time.

I didn't make my decisions on his ability from the list of awards -- I like to watch the player in games and see what they can and can NOT do.

After all the hype, I thought I should spend some time rewatching the NCS tapes. I WASTED three hours watching Lawson play in three game. I was going to watch the other 7 games, but got too disappointed.

In the first game, Lawson went against a Freshman OT (Gaithers) and could NOT get by him. Lawson was buried on the rushing plays toward him, suckered on screen passes. He did get one sack against a backup.

On the next two games, Lawson was beaten consistently by runs toward and past him. As I said, he did make good plays when the runs were away from him and he could use his speed to pursue the runner.

My bottom line -- he just didn't look to me like DE/OLB I would want the Bengals to waste a a 1st round pick on.

You keep hyping Lawson and I'll waste my time hyping Jason Allen and Antonio Cromartie

[ArmyBengal]

I still like what Lawson brings to the table regardless of anything else people may say... The kid can just play and how sweet would it be to do the same school draft strategy and take Lawson and then McCargo in the 2nd ?? I would be happy with that one !!!

WHODEY !!!

[TJJackson]

The awards themselves are as you say somewhat meaningless.

But I still ask: how did he get the awards from his own teammates - over Mario Williams and John McCargo, incidentally - if he did not perform on the field?

Also, I admit that the late year Maryland game was not a great game for Lawson. How about looking at the game against North Carolina? Or Boston College? How about considering his production in it's entirety rather than basing it on a few games?

[Stripes]

I don't feel confident taking any stock in the team MVP thing... I am sure he produced plenty well on the field throughout the season (why else would anyone be touting him as a first rounder?), I am just unsure what to attribute that success to. Those around him, inferior athletic competition, etc... Will it translate well to the NFL? Maybe, but doubt wins the day in my brain.

[BengalPappaw]

The awards themselves are as you say somewhat meaningless.

But I still ask: how did he get the awards from his own teammates - over Mario Williams and John McCargo, incidentally - if he did not perform on the field?

Also, I admit that the late year Maryland game was not a great game for Lawson. How about looking at the game against North Carolina? Or Boston College? How about considering his production in it's entirety rather than basing it on a few games?

TJ

One off the three games that I suffered through was the BC game -- yes he was good at rushing full speed up the field and he did beat the OT occasionally. But,he was smashed on running plays and got buried by the block of the lead back. One thing I do like about Lawson, is his hustle -- when knocked down he does get up and pursue.

BTW Kiwi had more sacks that game.

I don't have the North Carolina game from last year -- I have the Maryland, Ga Tech, Clemson, VaTech game and BC. I also have 5 games from prior years -- but after the first three, I did not want to waste any more time on him.

I still don't like him as our DE or OLB.

[TJJackson]

I doubt that the Lawson "haters" out there will read this, but maybe some of the rest of you will, and thereby benefit from it

http://209.197.83.253/story.php?id=012243

Also, anyone know that all pro Dolphin DE Jason Taylor came into the league at 239 pounds?