NFL Network Draft Preview

[schweinhart]

The NFLN ran a draft preview with former head coach Butch Davis, former Jets personnell evaluator Pat Kirwan and former NFL player turned draft analyst Mike Mayock.

Their Top 5 defensive players in this year's draft are:

Davis: 1. AJ Hawk 2. Mike Huff 3. Mario Williams 4. Chad Greenway 5. Brod Bunkley

Kirwan: 1. Mario Williams 2. Mike Huff 3. Haloti Ngata 4. AJ Hawk 5. Brod Bunkley

Mayock: 1. Mario Williams 2. Ernie Sims 3. AJ Hawk 4. Brod Bunkley 5. Mike Huff

Only specific mention about Bengals was by Kirwan who likened the 2nd round pick of 1st round talent in Odell last year because of character issues to the same for DT Claude Wroten this year. And he said he liked a guy like Marvin Lewis to take the shot on Wroten even though the Bengals have signed Sam Adams. Funny, though, he didn't mention Chris Henry.

[bengalboomer7]

Mayock had Ernie Sims ahead of AJ Hawk Blasphemy!

[schweinhart]

Mayock hypes hard the players he likes but he did say the concussion history of Sims could make him drop depending on medical evaluations. Plus, the Top 5 lists were players they liked best, not necessarily the order Mayock and the others think they'll get drafted. There's no way Sims gets drafted before Hawk. Butch was about slobbering all over the place talking about how great Hawk is and with good reason.

One of the more interesting discussions the 3 had was about Haloti Ngata. Neither Butch or Mayock listed him as Top 5 but all 3 had Bunkley. Kirwan's point about Ngata was the GM perspective that players that size with decent athleticism don't come around very often. He added that Oklahoma guard Davin Joseph said Ngata's 1st step quickness was disruptive for guards. Mayock pointed out that Fred Matua, who he said is a 3rd round guard, "ate him up". Plus he said Ngata is inconsistent on a play-by-play basis.

How they thought Ngata and Bunkley fit on a NFL D-Line was also up in the air. Butch liked Ngata as the best 3-4 NT because he's a space eater. Mayock said Bunkley is a natural 4-3 DT but also could fit at the nose in the right 3-4 scheme. Kirwan said Ngata would fit in either base.

[Wraith]

Mayock is an idiot. Since when does the meer fact that you played in NFL give you the ability to properly grade talent. I take Kirwan and Brandt's opinions much more seriously than I do Mayocks.

I just listened to Mayock hype Kamerion Wimbley and knock Manny Lawson for being a "workout warrior"

Here are their respective season stats last year.

Lawson 58 Tackles, 19.5 Tackles for Loss, 10.5 Sacks, 1 Forced Fumble

Wimbley 26 Tackles, 11 Tackles for Loss, 7.5 Sacks, 0 Forced Fumbles

Oh and Lawson had a better year the year before as well...Lawson has 2 inches on Wimbley and is only 7 pounds lighter, he also has better athletism, it's one thing if a player has not demonstrated his freakish ability on the field Lawson had a GREAT year the last 2 years by any objective measure. They even played in the same conference for heaven's sake.

[Stripes]

I don't mean to be a Buckeye homer, but I really think Hawk should be number one on this list. I know SuperMario looks great, and he could be deserving of that recognition, depending on how it is defined. Hawk, as I see it, is the most sure-fire NFL success among any defensive players in the draft. I would rank them with that in mind, which would keep Ngata and Sims both off of my list, though they could very well prove me wrong later.

[ArmyBengal]

I've always talked about Lawson and still think he'll be a big asset to some team. I would much rather him to Wimbley !!! As for the others, it's a mute point unless we trade up to snatch one of them !!!

WHODEY !!!

[HairOnFire]

I'd take Kamerion Wimbley over Manny Lawson, and in my mind it isn't even close. Wimbley is bigger and thicker already, has the frame needed to add 15-20 pounds, and has better pass rush moves than Lawson. He also has a history of adding weight every year and there's no reason to think he won't continue to do so in the pros. In a nutshell, he could play OLB or DE, but when I look at him I see a DE and that's what I want. As for Manny, he's taller but breadstick thin, and the only NFL future I see for him is as a designated pass rushing OLB, and quite frankly I'm not very interested in that breed of cat.

[ArmyBengal]

Agree to disagree, as I think it's a lot closer than it may appear. Both are tagged as tweeners and both get rated pretty close as far as strengths and weaknesses are concerned. I'll take the production of Lawson and take my chances...

WHODEY !!!

[GROIIIDayton]

I like both of them, both could be very good pros. The problem is they have both jumped up draft boards fairly quickly due to good pro day workouts and although could end up being good still leave me with the impression they could be a bust. I think both are the perfect boom or bust mold. Lawson played across from a freak so teams didn't game plan for him. Wimbley is the perfect mold for a teenier but I don't think he quite has the athletic ability to stand up and play in coverage, but I could be wrong. I think of the two Lawson has more ability but I hope the Bengals stay away from him.

[Wraith]

You know Lawson is graduating this year with an Engineering degree. Wimbley???

They both played the same people more or less...if Wimbley has better pass rushing skills than why don't the statistics show it? As far as Lawson playing across from a freak, yes, but at the beginning of the year based upon the previous years production I would game plan to stop Lawson since he was far more productive than Mario Williams (mind you it was Williams first year as a starter) in the 2004-2005 college year. And for that matter, Wimbley wasn't playing with freaks? Bunkley? Sims? Cromartie? plus the top flight defensive players that graduated last year and will graduate next? EVERYONE on Florida State is a freak to be reckoned with.

In my mind 6'4" 248 is not stocky, heck I am 6'3" 238 and I am CERTANLY not stocky, and while he is stockier than Lawson there was basicly no difference in their weight room performance and certainly no difference in their functional football strength as it relates to their play on the field.

Maybe I am wrong, it certainly wouldn't be the first time I have been wrong about a player but I just cannot see anything that would explain why Wimbley would be a better pro prospect than Lawson.

[Stripes]

I expect them both to suck.

As always, great analysis from TDB.

[HairOnFire]

Maybe I am wrong, it certainly wouldn't be the first time I have been wrong about a player but I just cannot see anything that would explain why Wimbley would be a better pro prospect than Lawson.

You made several valid points, but as Army said, let's agree to disagree. Simply put, I like what I see in Wimbley. Loose hips, solid frame capable of carrying more weight, a knee bender, solid technique, and the ability to play as a true DE in the pros. With Lawson, I struggle to find things I like....mostly because I can only picture him as an NFL OLB, and quite frankly I'd prefer other players if I was looking to fill that spot.

As for who would be a better pro prospect, let the draft decide which of us is right. I'm betting Wimbley goes long before Lawson does....and I'll eat a bug if that isn't the way it plays out.

[NJ29]

My List:

1. Ernie Sims

2. Brodrick Bunkley

3. Antonio Cromartie

4. Kamerion Wimbley

5. A.J. Nicholson

Okay, seriously.

1. A.J. Hawk

2. Mario Williams

3. Ernie Sims

4. Haloti Ngata

5. Michael Huff

[Kazkal]

mybe ngata will fall how 2 of them talked about him

[schweinhart]

Lawson-Wimbley was a bone of contention between Mayock and Kirwan, mainly about Lawson who Mayock said was probably a 3rd rounder because he was only a pass rush specialist out of strictly a 4-3 but would move to Round 2 because of the great measurables. Kirwan pegged Lawson as pretty much a mid-1st rounder, saying he would be the right for the Cowboys to pair on the other side of Demarcus Ware. Kirwan has Lawson as his most underarted player who can play either base.

Butch Davis said Wimbley can make the tranisition to OLB but didn't say Lawson could. Both give off a waft of Reinhard Wilson IMO but for the Bengals purposes if they really look at either of these 2, I think they'd be better served by Lawson because he should grow big enough to play all downs 4-3 DE and even if that takes a couple years the Bengals need to address the pass rush off the edge both now and afterwards in the event this is Justin Smith's last year in Stripes.

One thing Mayock and Kirwan did agree on is that Mike Huff is a CB, but Mayock qualified it by saying he'd probably have to start at nickel then transition out to the edge.