Our Team is More than just Carson Palmer

[bwillycuse]

Ive been reading this board for awhile now and decided to finally make a post.

All i have been hearing (from Browns and STeelers message boards, and here)is that if Palmer isnt ready for opening game we are a mediocre at best team. I really dont understand this at all. We have an excellent offensive line who have been together for years. Our receiving corp is better than anyones. Running backs are excellent. We lost the playoff game because of defense and lack of intensity and execution after half time. It wasn't our offense.

Definitely, without Palmer we aren't the same team, but we are still a very good team without him. And as we continue to shore up the defense, whomever we have at quarterback - I would take the Bengals over most teams.

Lets give the rest of the team credit because they may have to carry us as Palmer comes back. This process may even strengthen this team.

[ArmyBengal]

Ok, lets give the rest of the team credit.... Ok, done...

However, the question is who's going to lead the team offensively right now that can do what Carson does ??? Don't worry, I won't hold my breath. Did you watch the same playoff game ?? How great do you think Kitna was in that game ?? He was working with the same people you want everyone to give credit to. Don't get me wrong, I get your point and do think the rest of the team is going to be great, but Carson is the man. That's usually why the QB is the highest paid guy. Everything works through Carson. If our defense could solidfy itself, this would be less of a hit...

Oh yeah, welcome to the board !!!

WHODEY !!!

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Our team is indeed more than just Carson Palmer.

HOWEVER, you don't lose a pro-bowl quarterback and not take a hit.

[HoosierCat]

Welcome aboard, bwillycuse.

Our team is more than Carson, you're right. Unfortunately, the last 15 years tell us that without a top-notch player behind center, all the rest of the talent will struggle.

I mean, we had guys like Corey Dillon, Big Willie, Levi, Justin, Takeo Spikes, Brian Simmons, Carl Pickens, Darnay Scott, Richie Braham has been here forever...all those guys are talented, some Pro Bowl caliber. But the string of stinkers at QB meant it was all a waste.

This team can win some games without Carson if it improves its D (not enough has been done there yet, IMHO, even if the Adams signing comes through, but there's still the draft) and has a QB that can at least manage the game and not turn the ball over. But if the Bengals want to get to that big game with all the Roman numerals...they need Palmer back.

[bwillycuse]

Yeah, I watched and was pained the whole entire playoff game. ( I am not a Kitna fan) Kitna and the rest of the offense move at will in the first half. The second half was a joke altogether. No emotion, no swagger - they were playing scared. We folded basically.

Yes Carson is the savior and all that. But my point is that this team can and will win with any quarterback that will not make terrible mistakes to lose games.

Lets not put too much pressure on the man. He is a great quarterback and all, but he doesnt win the games all by himself.

[HairOnFire]

The biggest reason the Bengals can survive the start of the season without Palmer is because they can prepare all preseason for that potential outcome. But as much as you can point to the other assets the Bengals have it's just as true that without Palmer under center the opposing team can adjust and attack the Bengals just as the Steelers did in the 2nd half of the playoff game.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

This team doesn't go to the playoffs or win the division without Carson Palmer last year - period.

With Kitna they're sub-500 vs next year's schedule (or really any other option).

With Carson Palmer: Playoff/SuperBowl Contendor

Without Carson Palmer: Sub-500 or .500 team at best.

Indy, the Patriots, and Pittsburgh would all say the same things w/o their franchise QB's.

Fans give the Bengals' o-line way too much credit.

Rudi can only be as good as his QB lets him with the passing game.

This team will still have to score 20+ points a game next year to compete because of the defense, versus that schedule.

[bwillycuse]

This team doesn't go to the playoffs or win the division without Carson Palmer last year - period.

With Kitna they're sub-500 vs next year's schedule (or really any other option).

With Carson Palmer: Playoff/SuperBowl Contendor

Without Carson Palmer: Sub-500 or .500 team at best.

Indy, the Patriots, and Pittsburgh would all say the same things w/o their franchise QB's.

Fans give the Bengals' o-line way too much credit.

Rudi can only be as good as his QB lets him with the passing game.

This team will still have to score 20+ points a game next year to compete because of the defense, versus that schedule.

So basically, The general perception is without Palmer we are mediocre. If Palmer has a bad game we lose. All hopes are on how Carson plays. That makes me very wary at winning anything. My dream is to see our Bengals win games through grit and intensity. Not just out shooting the other team. I want to win games even though we played poorly. I think our team is heading in that direction. Then when Carson plays well - domination will be the result. Not squeaking by 31-27.

Thanks Joisey for the hospitality.

Dont get me wrong everyone - Palmer is the MAN. But I cant lay all my hopes on him.

I live up in Cleveland and people here think they are a better team than us if Carson doesnt play.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Sorry I just think people overrate the o-line here and some of the defensive players - nothing more.

I "think" in a couple of more years this team could be like a Pittsburgh and grow it's own and rely on drafted youngsters who've developed, and not be so reliant on the Qb.

But if you know Mike Brown, he thinks he can skimp everywhere else and ride a QB for 10 years - that's always been his philosophy.

The pass-happy NFL is all about big plays and scoring now though, and if you don't have a top 5 defense, you better have a top 5 offense.

[Jonboat]

This team doesn't go to the playoffs or win the division without Carson Palmer last year - period.

With Kitna they're sub-500 vs next year's schedule (or really any other option).

With Carson Palmer: Playoff/SuperBowl Contendor

Without Carson Palmer: Sub-500 or .500 team at best.

Indy, the Patriots, and Pittsburgh would all say the same things w/o their franchise QB's.

Fans give the Bengals' o-line way too much credit.

Rudi can only be as good as his QB lets him with the passing game.

This team will still have to score 20+ points a game next year to compete because of the defense, versus that schedule.

I agree with most of what you said except I don't think the O-line gets too much credit , who opens the holes for Rudi to run through? Didn't they set a team record for fewest sacks allowed for the season? We have one of the best O-lines in the league & deserve all the credit they get.

It's way too soon to say our D hasn't improved. With the addition of Adams( if we get him remember the Sapp deal was iminent also) Jackson, through the draft, which has really paid off the last few years , & the young guys having more experience if we can stay relatively healthy I think they will be much improved. Maybe they will be... maybe not there's alot of if's & questions but it's just too soon right now to tell

[ArmyBengal]

I just think without Carson, we aren't the same team and teams can gameplan (as stated before) for whomever is in there (see Kitna, playoffs)...

Cleveland is no where near the talent the Bengals are. I'm giving them credit for making moves and bringing in veteran talent as well as a pro bowl center, but they still aren't close. Does that mean we will beat the snot out of them ?? No, if we don't play focused against them, we will get beat (just like any Sunday)...

The Bengals are a far better team and with the moves in FA, the draft, and a healthy Carson, we are a very dangerous team. VERY !!!

WHODEY !!!

[Folz]

You also have to remember that Rudi has been playing pretty damn well with a bum knee. He'll be a hundred percent this season. I think that hes going to have a bigger season than people think. With him, our recievers, and a possible tight end pick, our offense will be much more than just carson palmer. Put carson in an offense like Houston or detroit and he wouldn't be nearly as good. He is still one of the best QBs in the league, but the rest of the offense has a lot to do with him maturing so quickly.

WHO-DEY

[Stripes]

I honestly think we suck without Carson. Suck as in 9-7 or 8-8 caliber. He is at the center of everything we do well offensively. Before he came into the mold, that center was Chad Johnson. Running an offense around a receiver doesn't work, but when you give him a gunslinger that can throw a 65 yard pass like it's a Vortex football, then you're in business.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I honestly think we suck without Carson. Suck as in 9-7 or 8-8 caliber. He is at the center of everything we do well offensively. Before he came into the mold, that center was Chad Johnson. Running an offense around a receiver doesn't work, but when you give him a gunslinger that can throw a 65 yard pass like it's a Vortex football, then you're in business.

I don't know - the team was 8-8 with both Kitna and a rookie Palmer, and I think the rest of the team has gotten better since then. I think it's *possible* to go 10-6 with a full year of the right backup and an improved defense.

Add Sam Adams, Dexter Jackson, and a 1st-round pick to that D and I think things are looking up.

[walzav29]

If the Bengals are going to win without Palmer than they will have to have 2 things. A dominant defense and a serviceable quarterback. I couldn't imaging these guys teams winning without them. Brady, Farve, McNabb, Manning, or Trent Green that's just naming a few. The defense will have to be 3 times better than it was last year. I think with the additions that Marv has made on d through free agency along with the upcoming draft and the team maturing. They would have a great shot at winning the Super Bowl with Palmer. They are an 8-8 team without Carson.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

But if you know Mike Brown, he thinks he can skimp everywhere else and ride a QB for 10 years - that's always been his philosophy.

Pardon me? When have we ever ridden a QB for 10 years? Mike Brown's teams have always revolved around needing a QB and having a running game. Over the decades of losing, he has tried QB after QB, draft pick, journeyman, whatever. At the same time, the running back has always been stable. If it wasn't James Brooks it was Corey Dillon. If it wasn't Ickey Woods, it was Rudi Johnson. If it wasn't Stanley Wilson, it was Pete Johnson. If it wasn't Derrick Fenner, it was Eric Ball.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

If the Bengals are going to win without Palmer than they will have to have 2 things. A dominant defense and a serviceable quarterback. I couldn't imaging these guys teams winning without them. Brady, Farve, McNabb, Manning, or Trent Green that's just naming a few. The defense will have to be 3 times better than it was last year. I think with the additions that Marv has made on d through free agency along with the upcoming draft and the team maturing. They would have a great shot at winning the Super Bowl with Palmer. They are an 8-8 team without Carson.

I don't know, I don't think it's that dire. I think they need a *competent*, not dominant, defense and a serviceable QB.

The 2000 Ravens had to have a dominant D to counteract their completely putrid offense. However, that's because they had absolutely no receivers and Trent Dilfer throwing the ball. I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that a decent backup should have a ton of success in the offense the Bengals have. Especially since that guy has the time to come up to speed during camp.

Put it this way - Kitna sucks, and when he had the starting job, he did just fine. Our offense is better than 2003. Our defense should be better than 2003. Surely we can find a guy who's about as good as Kitna. Why the hell can't they win more than 8 games?

[Tasher]

SHHHH....

don't tell anyone and we can sneak up on people again, till Carson gets back!

[HoTbOy]

We've had this conversation before we are .500 team without Carson as many of you have said...I for 1 hopes that he doesn't lose anytime but if he does I hope that it's not long...with the addition of SAdams, i'm feeling better about the D...the Offense is good about a 8 on a scale of 1-10(with Carson) without him average...the Defense is about a 5 which is average, we have good individual players on D but as a whole there average...you can't win anything with an average offense and defense...the 99Rams are a good example of a team with a good O but average D who won everything..we needed to score more points in some games last year with Carson, so our team is more than just Carson more average...

[BigBenBlows]

Welcome aboard, bwillycuse.

Our team is more than Carson, you're right. Unfortunately, the last 15 years tell us that without a top-notch player behind center, all the rest of the talent will struggle.

I mean, we had guys like Corey Dillon, Big Willie, Levi, Justin, Takeo Spikes, Brian Simmons, Carl Pickens, Darnay Scott, Richie Braham has been here forever...all those guys are talented, some Pro Bowl caliber. But the string of stinkers at QB meant it was all a waste.

This team can win some games without Carson if it improves its D (not enough has been done there yet, IMHO, even if the Adams signing comes through, but there's still the draft) and has a QB that can at least manage the game and not turn the ball over. But if the Bengals want to get to that big game with all the Roman numerals...they need Palmer back.

I couldn't have said it better myself josiey. Except you forgot the talented Klinger, Ferotte, Smith, Odonnell, and Blake. I'm kidding about the Qb's btw.

[derekshank]

Okay... clearly we don't suck without Palmer. We were leading at halftime aginst the Super Bowl champions with Kitna at the helm.

That said... with Palmer we probably would have won. We will never be in a Super Bowl with this team without Palmer playing. The defense is good with turnovers... but relies heavily on the offense getting out to a lead. When we play from behind, our only shot at winning a game is with Palmer playing.

But that's not all bad. The Colts would be nothing without Manning... the Pats would not have a single Super Bowl ring without Tom Brady. The Broncos would have a similar track record to teams like the Saints and Cardinals without John Elway. The 49ers would not be renowned as a dynasty without Montana and Young.

Quarterback is just that important. Take comfort in the fact that we will be good for a long time as long as Palmer gets healthy. He looks to be truly special... and the great ones don't merely go down in history... they take their teams with them. No one can do it all by themselves... so no... the team doesn't suck. But we aren't an 11-5 team without Palmer either. We are decidedly average without him.

[ArmyBengal]

Okay... clearly we don't suck without Palmer. We were leading at halftime aginst the Super Bowl champions with Kitna at the helm.

That said... with Palmer we probably would have won. We will never be in a Super Bowl with this team without Palmer playing. The defense is good with turnovers... but relies heavily on the offense getting out to a lead. When we play from behind, our only shot at winning a game is with Palmer playing.

But that's not all bad. The Colts would be nothing without Manning... the Pats would not have a single Super Bowl ring without Tom Brady. The Broncos would have a similar track record to teams like the Saints and Cardinals without John Elway. The 49ers would not be renowned as a dynasty without Montana and Young.

Quarterback is just that important. Take comfort in the fact that we will be good for a long time as long as Palmer gets healthy. He looks to be truly special... and the great ones don't merely go down in history... they take their teams with them. No one can do it all by themselves... so no... the team doesn't suck. But we aren't an 11-5 team without Palmer either. We are decidedly average without him.

What he said !!!

WHODEY !!!

[BigBenBlows]

Okay... clearly we don't suck without Palmer. We were leading at halftime aginst the Super Bowl champions with Kitna at the helm.

That said... with Palmer we probably would have won. We will never be in a Super Bowl with this team without Palmer playing. The defense is good with turnovers... but relies heavily on the offense getting out to a lead. When we play from behind, our only shot at winning a game is with Palmer playing.

But that's not all bad. The Colts would be nothing without Manning... the Pats would not have a single Super Bowl ring without Tom Brady. The Broncos would have a similar track record to teams like the Saints and Cardinals without John Elway. The 49ers would not be renowned as a dynasty without Montana and Young.

Quarterback is just that important. Take comfort in the fact that we will be good for a long time as long as Palmer gets healthy. He looks to be truly special... and the great ones don't merely go down in history... they take their teams with them. No one can do it all by themselves... so no... the team doesn't suck. But we aren't an 11-5 team without Palmer either. We are decidedly average without him.

What he said !!!

WHODEY !!!

Agree totally

[HairOnFire]

Okay... clearly we don't suck without Palmer. We were leading at halftime aginst the Super Bowl champions with Kitna at the helm.

That said... with Palmer we probably would have won. We will never be in a Super Bowl with this team without Palmer playing. The defense is good with turnovers... but relies heavily on the offense getting out to a lead. When we play from behind, our only shot at winning a game is with Palmer playing.

But that's not all bad. The Colts would be nothing without Manning... the Pats would not have a single Super Bowl ring without Tom Brady. The Broncos would have a similar track record to teams like the Saints and Cardinals without John Elway. The 49ers would not be renowned as a dynasty without Montana and Young.

Quarterback is just that important. Take comfort in the fact that we will be good for a long time as long as Palmer gets healthy. He looks to be truly special... and the great ones don't merely go down in history... they take their teams with them. No one can do it all by themselves... so no... the team doesn't suck. But we aren't an 11-5 team without Palmer either. We are decidedly average without him.

What he said !!!

WHODEY !!!

Agree totally

What he said. In fact, what we've all said....'cause with very few exceptions we're all saying the same thing. Namely, with Palmer this team is a Super Bowl contender. Without him the same team might be an 8-10 win unit that could be called a playoff contender, but not a championship contender. And back to the original point of the thread, this isn't a one-man team by any stretch of the imagination, but this teams goals have been elevated and to reach them Palmer has to return healthy and hitting on all cylinders.