Post-Combine Thoughts

[DuffMan]

Since the combine ended I've been thinking about guys who have moved up/down near the Bengals' first pick, here are a few:

Manny Lawson: One of the best performers at the combine this year, came in at 6-5+ and 241 pounds with questions as to whether he should play DE or OLB in the NFL. Ripped off a 4.43 40, and was top 2 time-wise in all the agility drills, jumps, and dashes. Dude pretty much showed he was a freak. Could he be the Bengals' dominant pass rusher coveted by the NFL? Would seem like an intriguing pick at 24 assuming there aren't any standouts left at positions of need. Then again might just turn into another Pollack situation with Marvin not knowing what to do with the guy (OLB/DE?). I cant find anything on his bench either.

Chad Greenway: Once a sure top-15 pick, had a pretty bad combine for someone widely considered the 2nd best LB in the draft. Ran a 4.74 40, and only had 16 bench reps. I'm not saying the guy is gonna drop out of the 1st, but he could be around when the Bengals pick and might fall under that "best player available" designation.

Ernie Sims: Has been flying up draft boards with sub-4.5 40 times and great athleticism and intensity during drills, plus the guy might be the biggest hitter in the draft. Might not be around when we pick, but if he is can Marvin turn down a player with such power, speed, and instincts at a position where we are still not very solid/deep?

Any thoughts?

[TJJackson]

Lawson - too small to play DE, and we are already in the middle of convertign an undersized DE taken in round 1 to a LB

Greenway - possibly to slow, but otherwise a good player. Bengals will probably pay some attention to his individual workout

Sims - don't know enough to say anything yet, will take a look at him

[Whur CHad At?]

Bresh said not to rule out a LB in the first if a good one fell to us!

[ArmyBengal]

I understand what people say about being undersized at the DE position, but at the same time say, it's not an absolute...

When Freeney came in, he was 6'1, 255, and ran in the 4.4 range.

Lawson is 6'5, 241, in the same 4.4 range.

Freeney was labeled the "classic tweener" coming into the league and things seemed to work out pretty well for him. I'm not saying absolutely that Lawson is as good or better than Freeney, but to dismiss him as a "tweener" is a mistake in my opinion. He may very well be best suited for the 3-4 as an OLB, but think he's worth more than a peek.

WHODEY !!!

[HoosierCat]

Lawson would be a waste; he's a Pollack-type and we already have Pollack. I've said before if Greenway falls he's a no-brainer at 24, and Sims is a possibility. Both the latter could be the heir to Simmons on the weak side. That does need to be addressed soon, as Brian is not getting any younger, and it would be nice to have him around to train up the young'un. Marvin loves LBs, so don't be surprised if that's the call.

[sodikart]

Lawson would be a waste; he's a Pollack-type and we already have Pollack. I've said before if Greenway falls he's a no-brainer at 24, and Sims is a possibility. Both the latter could be the heir to Simmons on the weak side. That does need to be addressed soon, as Brian is not getting any younger, and it would be nice to have him around to train up the young'un. Marvin loves LBs, so don't be surprised if that's the call.

What about Landon why can't he take over for Simmons? In the games he's played as a bengal I haven't seen him do anything bad.

[Whur CHad At?]

I don't like Greenway...he looked too stiff at the combine drills. I think he is overrated IMO.

[HoosierCat]

What about Landon why can't he take over for Simmons? In the games he's played as a bengal I haven't seen him do anything bad.

He could, at least IMHO. Others differ. I'm not advocating an LB in the first...but I wouldn't be stunned if it happened.

[Kazkal]

jason taylor

[DuffMan]

Is anyone else worried about Landon's shoulders popping out after any tackle? He may be good when healthy but its hard to slot him in as Simmon's with a history of injury. I also still don't know if Pollack can handle playing LB in the NFL. I'm not saying we should take a LB over an equally talented/gifted S, but those are my main reasons for advocating a Lawson-type or any other LB in the 1st.

[Kochman]

A guy who has really impressed me is Thomas Howard. I don't know if he is accually worth a first round pick but definetly something to think about. He measured in at 6'03 239 and ran a 4.46 40.

Pros: Has great size and speed, one of the fastest LBs in the draft. Great agility and acceleration, and can read and react to plays well. Good in coverage, as he was a defensive back prior to being converted to an OLB.

Cons: Needs to continue to get experience at the position, and refine his tackling technique. Needs to get stronger, and sometimes has trouble with blockers.

[AGrizzlyBaer]

i just dont see it happening, i could see the fans going into an up roar like after the chris perry pick if anything but dt de s or te is picked

[schweinhart]

Linebacker is pretty intriguing for a 1st round pick. I don't think there's any question that the Bengals need to be ready to replace B-Simmons at weakside if the right player falls. In this draft, if either Chad Greenway or Ernie Sims is there, I think they would jump on it.

Greenway is about as good of a drop back cover LB as it gets. He will also be serviceable at the point of attack. Sims has a lot of upside and athletic juice. He can run, cover and tackle as good as any LB in the draft. His downside is his size and he'll be proned to getting washed out if he lets blockers get into him. But he's awfully active and would be hard to pass on.

Landon is a solid player but I don't think he's ultimately the replacement for B-Simms.

Thomas Howard I would be leary about. He's a great cover LB -- on par with Greenway. But Howard hasn't shown me that he's got the mindset to aggressively play the point of attack. He's shows up at the end of plays but rarely did I notice him being the first one to get a hat on somebody. He's got unbelievable speed for a player with that size, but he needs a heaping helping of killer instinct before he's going to make it at the next level.

Another potential 1st round weakside backer is Demeco Ryans. I think he blows in coverage but is strong playing the run with good lateral speed. On the whole, the Bengals should pass on him.

[NJ29]

I don't think that Greenway will be there at 24, but I think Sims would be there. And everyone here knows that I would jump at the chance to make that pick.

[kingwilly]

I think Greenway would be ok, but not great... I won't be happy if they take Greenway and Kiwi, Hali or Lawson is still on the board.

The thing about Lawson is that he is far faster than ALL of our LB's and has height....as in covering guys like Heath Miller, Heap, and Winsolow (if he ever comes back)...the AFC North is stacked with TE's who make plays...I really doubt that Greenway is going to have the wheels to shut down Heap in the seams. I would rather have Lawson over Greenway.

The only thing that would cause Lawson to be like Pollack, if we drafted him, would be if he held out the same way.

I think OLB is another position where outside the first 2 or 3, the difference from the 3rd rated guy to the 8th rated guy is not so great as to burn an early pick on one....guys like Nande, Alston and Nicholson will be there in r3-5....

[ArmyBengal]

I think Greenway would be ok, but not great... I won't be happy if they take Greenway and Kiwi, Hali or Lawson is still on the board.

The thing about Lawson is that he is far faster than ALL of our LB's and has height....as in covering guys like Heath Miller, Heap, and Winsolow (if he ever comes back)...the AFC North is stacked with TE's who make plays...I really doubt that Greenway is going to have the wheels to shut down Heap in the seams. I would rather have Lawson over Greenway.

The only thing that would cause Lawson to be like Pollack, if we drafted him, would be if he held out the same way.

I think OLB is another position where outside the first 2 or 3, the difference from the 3rd rated guy to the 8th rated guy is not so great as to burn an early pick on one....guys like Nande, Alston and Nicholson will be there in r3-5....

Right on !!! I'm not saying the Lawson pick is going to happen if he's there at #24, but I sure as hell would not be upset !!!

WHODEY !!!

[schweinhart]

There's no way of knowing sight unseen whether or not Lawson can hack it in any kind of coverage beyond short area but with the speed he's shown, hard to think he'd be too far behind anybody for too long.

He'll be viewed more as a 3-4 OLB or maybe a 4-3 strongside backer than a 4-3 WSLB, which entails a lot more coverage responsibilities, but even if he can't handle the coverage, he should be a highly effective pass rushing DE. Getting some consistent pressure on the other teams damn QB would be worth #24 IMO just by itself and if there's anything extra to boot, it'd be all that much better. Besides, Lawson looks like he can keep adding weight without losing much speed, so there's even more ceiling with him. Lots of compelling reasons for the Bengals to look long and hard at Lawson at #24.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

i just dont see it happening, i could see the fans going into an up roar like after the chris perry pick if anything but dt de s or te is picked

And how many of those fans are now saying gee, maybe Perry wasn't so bad a choice....?

[TJJackson]

Not I.

I hated it then, hate it now, and will always hate the pick of Two Carry Perry.

Period.

We had greater needs we should have addressed.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Not I.

I hated it then, hate it now, and will always hate the pick of Two Carry Perry.

Period.

We had greater needs we should have addressed.

Yeah, whatever. It's too bad you are such a hater, because Perry has proven he adds a lot to our team. He got injured and gutted through a freaking hernia TRYING to practice and play. When he gets on the field, he is a difference maker, and he is depth that we desperately need to have behind Rudi in case he gets injured. We've been lucky with him so far, but guys who run like Rudi get hurt.

We addressed our needs and in the same draft we picked Perry as well as in free agency that offseason, we turned our secondary from a huge disadvantage to an advantage on the field. Sure, we need defensive line help, but frankly there wasn't anyone worth taking with a first round pick there.

[HairOnFire]

I like Wimbley more than Lawson.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

If we actually pick a linebacker in round one with all the talent that should be there at DT, SS, CB, TE, and even WR, I'm going to go crazy. Actually MARVIN will have gone crazy. We'll have used 4 of our first day picks in the last two years on linebackers. We'd be looking a lot like Detroit and Arizona in their lets just pick WRs on day one foolishness.

[TJJackson]

The linebacker I like is Thomas Howard of UTEP...amazing size/speed ratio, good in coverage, smart, leader, good intangibles, and lots of experience

[ArmyBengal]

If we actually pick a linebacker in round one with all the talent that should be there at DT, SS, CB, TE, and even WR, I'm going to go crazy. Actually MARVIN will have gone crazy. We'll have used 4 of our first day picks in the last two years on linebackers. We'd be looking a lot like Detroit and Arizona in their lets just pick WRs on day one foolishness.

No two ways about that TNBT... I'd be pretty pissed with a LB as well. The defensive line has got to be addressed. What if Carson is out for half the season ?? Do you honestly think our defense (the way it is) will keep us in games and more importantly in the playoff race until he comes back ?? That question is not directed at you TNBT, it is a general question to all. The point i'm trying to make is, WE NEED DEFENSIVE LINE HELP !!!

WHODEY !!!