Can someone explain the Kitna phenom?

[BengalByTheBay]

So if Kitna is not re-signed, then who starts next season if Carson can't go? You cannot expect Doug Johnson to start just because he has started more games then Craig Krenzel. You cannot expect Aaron Brooks to start because he has no experience in the offense. And the same with Josh. And you can't expect Craig to start because he has not taken a snap in this offense. And we all know how much practice 3rd string QB's get with the starting offense. While Jon Kitna may have small hands, and can be erratic at times, he knows the offense better then anyone. Depth and stability at the QB position is a must if a team wants to successful. There are no guarantees that Carson will be ready for the start of the next season, so to ensure success, the Bengals must re-sign Jon Kitna.

Faulty reasoning. By your logic nobody could possibly come in who hasn't already played significant time for the Bengals. That is belied by offseason migration of QB's every season. Examples abound, but I'll just point to one. Kurt Warner started for AZ after his offseason pick up. He did okay. Brat's offense isn't brain surgery. It's got a few wrinkles from others, but it's nothing that a veteran QB can't come in and become sufficiently proficient at to start the season. The more daunting difficulty, to me, is whether we can grab somebody who is better than Kit and willing to take a temp. job with the Bengals. I think we can readily find a QB who fits either one of those criteria -- the difficulty is finding a fit for both. For that reason alone, I would be cool with keeping Kit, but not to the extent of engaging in a bidding war for him. Like many before me, I just don't think he's that good or that special. As for mentoring CP -- the only evidence you need that this task has been done well, but also completed, is last season.

[ArmyBengal]

Kitna is a great person, no doubt. Could he keep us even through the first 4 games next year if needed ?? Looking at the schedule as it stands right now, I think not, but with the increased time running the offense, anything is possible. Maybe some of the things he has had problems with come from the lack of playing time, but those problems just annoy the sh*t out of me. Don't tell me Carson makes mistakes as well, because Kitna is NO Carson. I think the Bengals will try to bring him back for the question asked earlier, who will start for Carson if he can't go ? Quite frankly, it bothers the hell out of me, because I would hate to see a crappy start to a season with such great potential. Sorry, but I would rather see Kitna as a QB coach, because as also stated, he's a pretty smart football dude. Take his smarts and his being a nice guy, put them together and pray the extra reps will help until Carson returns. Anyone else tired of seeing the ball sail over our WR's heads ?? Oh well...

WHODEY !!!

[kingwilly]

MacD...the argument you make about other QBs starting based on thier lack of experience in NFL games, experience in the Cincy offense, lack of snaps...etc. and conclusion that therefore we must re-sign Kitna is solely based on your position that he "know the offense better than anyone"....by your logic, if Brat could put on pads, he'd be perfect.

I say we bid kitna farewell. Knowledge of the O is nothing without execution and Kitna does not have the tools to make the decision or throws required to get even minimal performance out of the CURRENT offense, not the offense of 2003.

Krenzel is smart and has been in the system for a little less than a year...but I think he lacks the arm power and poise.

Johnson has no experience in this O but has been around and had to learn many offenses...a good ability to have. He has a decent arm but still a big ? mark.

Just about any otehr QB we could grab will be short of something...whether it be the arm, brain, poise/experience...if they had it all, they'd be a starter somewhere else..not a FA or cut. It is tough to compare the productivity of Palmer with whoever is going to step in while he heals.

If this were my team I'd first look for a guy with some NFL years under his belt. D. Johnson (signed), B. Johnson, Brooks, Couch, Maddox, McCown, and several otehr re-treads will be out there. Kitna is looking around.

next, I'd consider thier physical tools. All will have some shortcoming, or they'd be a starter under contract...Of the ones mentioned, I think Brooks has the best tool-set of the group, next would be McCown...then the fall-off is drastic.

next, I'd look at thier ability to run a sub-set of the Cincy O. It is unrealistic to think a guy will come in and run the "no-huddle" like palmer. We just have to realize that will not happen with a FA who gets to study and work in this system for about 4 months. The opening day QB, if not Palmer, will probably not be running the full playbook. Key is having the ability to learn the sub-set and then have a rifle arm to execute.

next, I'd have to examine the $ impact. Clearly some QB's will demand more ching than others. This is where i see the bengals really compromising and going on the cheap. Any QB we approach will know that they are just driving the train till Palmer gets back but should be looking at it as a chance to prove their ability with a top-notch supporting cast thus vaulting them back into the picture as an NFL starter down the road.

To me, the guy to pursure is Aaron Brooks, pending how much coin the guy wants. This would be the perfect lay-over to get his stock up and re-gain starter status for '07. a "Win-Win".

[bengalboomer7]

Were not talking about a franchise savior here, we're talking about a guy we can plug in for a couple of games to keep our heads above water until Carson comes back(if he misses any regular season games.

I guess i put more stock in knowing the offense tahn the rest of you guys. He has some timing and chemistry with our current players and coaching staff, and apparently, Chad and the lot believe in him.

Any other QB we bring in will have none of that.

Kitna is the best option, in my opinion.

[HairOnFire]

The Bengals need a cheaper version of Ben Roethlisberger. A young strong armed stupid guy they can prop up with a strong running game.

[DontPushMe]

If anyone brings in kitna to be a "starter" it will only be for 1 year while they let a 1st or 2nd round pick learn the game behind him like carson did.

[Who?]

I still remember being at the Cleveland game two years ago.With a chance of making the playoffs,our cerebral QB took a sack with no timeouts and in FG range to end the half.

and the final score ofthat game was 21-14 bengals....

If you're talking about the 2003 season, then the Browns won that last game, and put the Bengals out of playoff contention.

It was mostly because of Lee Suggs having a huge game (I think around 180 yards) but i'm not totally sure.

Sorry about that, continue on with the thread!

[walzav29]

Marvin said that they will have a veteran qb signed the 1st week of free agency. Do you think Marvin likes bad decisions? Kitna is as good as gone. The only question is who it will be.

[Sox]

I still remember being at the Cleveland game two years ago.With a chance of making the playoffs,our cerebral QB took a sack with no timeouts and in FG range to end the half.

and the final score ofthat game was 21-14 bengals....

Man,I could have sworn we lost that game 22 14.

[Stripes]

I still remember being at the Cleveland game two years ago.With a chance of making the playoffs,our cerebral QB took a sack with no timeouts and in FG range to end the half.

and the final score ofthat game was 21-14 bengals....

Man,I could have sworn we lost that game 22 14.

I believe I understand the confusion here.... You said "I still remember being AT the Cleveland game two years ago." That makes perfect sense. The "at" threw 'em off thinking it was the the other Cleveland IN the Dawg Pound game that our Bengals won 21-14.

TDB aka Captain Obvious has spoken.

[HairOnFire]

Marvin said that they will have a veteran qb signed the 1st week of free agency. Do you think Marvin likes bad decisions? Kitna is as good as gone. The only question is who it will be.

I don't think his remarks meant that Kitna is as good as gone. I think they served as a warning shot meant to make it clear that the Bengals aren't going to give Kitna what he just asked for, that being a promise that he'd be granted the time needed to explore his starting QB options with other teams.

IMHO the Bengals just told Kitna that the backup job is his for the taking, but the offer has to be acted upon quickly or they'll protect their own interests by moving on.

[Kirkendall]

Also, it doesn't reflect games that he didn't start, but played a vital part in.

The question is backup QB. Correct? Not starter. And honestly, if we are debating our backup QB because our starter is hurt, as the Rock used to say, "IT DOESN'T MATTER" who starts -- we'll be in trouble.

For example, against New England in '04, he came in after Palmer's injury, and couldn't pull out the win.

NE was the Super Bowl champs.

Against KC this year, he laid a big egg.

Kinda hard when it's asked of Kitna to lead a team that's resting for their first playoff game playing non-starters for most of the game. Wouldn't you agree? Oh, and Kitna, thankfully, isn't apart of the defensive rush unit that saw Larry Johnson blow us away.

Faulty reasoning. By your logic nobody could possibly come in who hasn't already played significant time for the Bengals. That is belied by offseason migration of QB's every season. Examples abound, but I'll just point to one. Kurt Warner started for AZ after his offseason pick up.

You choose an example of a three-time Pro-Bowl with a 95.7 career passer rating, a Super Bowl MVP and two-time MVP award winner in the NFL? Hardly on par with the Doug Johnson argument.

[Kirkendall]

To me, the guy to pursure is Aaron Brooks, pending how much coin the guy wants. This would be the perfect lay-over to get his stock up and re-gain starter status for '07. a "Win-Win".

But what could he provide for the Bengals? And from reports and newspapers in the area, him sitting was the best thing that could have happened from him causing distractions and a "chaotic" atmosphere -- that AFTER wizard Todd Bauman took over.

[kingwilly]

Considering the situation with the Saints as a result of Katrina, I'm willing to overlook just about every aspect of how that team performed that season.

Brooks offers the best combination of physical tools and experience offset by the $ he will command 9or not command). $ still remain to be seen. Of course this is all contingent on him getting released from NO.

[BengalByTheBay]

Faulty reasoning. By your logic nobody could possibly come in who hasn't already played significant time for the Bengals. That is belied by offseason migration of QB's every season. Examples abound, but I'll just point to one. Kurt Warner started for AZ after his offseason pick up.

You choose an example of a three-time Pro-Bowl with a 95.7 career passer rating, a Super Bowl MVP and two-time MVP award winner in the NFL? Hardly on par with the Doug Johnson argument.

What did you expect, I'd pick the lamest candidate?? As for Doug Johnson, I wasn't saying he is the guy. I posted within 10 minutes of finding out that he was signed that it was no big deal and he was just camp competition. What we're debating is who will be signed to be the guy....Kitna or somebody else. I say "somebody else" based on all that we know right now. And that's not because I hate Kitna, I just think there are better options that will probably cost less and will not keep the Bengals waiting for them. More to my point above, it's just not the case that no other QB caqn possibly pick up the system. That's not true - especially for a vet.

Kitna wants to go on a few dates and see if he gets kissed. Good for him. I tend to think he'll be left alone at the end of the day, but he should have a shot to get paid. Good luck Jon. We need to have a guy in there at the start of voluntaries who can start week 1. If JK's running off to Miami or New Orleans or wherever, we gotta have somebody ready to go.

[Steel Legends]

I keep reading things that indicate that he can start on other teams. My question is what team would be dumb enough to let a 34 year old qb, with baby hands and a career rating of 75.5 start? I hope he does leave, but I just have a hard time believing that teams are lining up to give him a team. I think it's a joke. I hope that he does go to the Ravens, so I can watch his uncanny fumbling ability 1st hand. I really hope that the Bengals sign an actual QB who not only has started, but has had playoff success. I think we'll have to go the 1st 6 games without Palmer.

The problem with starting QBs coming off the bench is that they aren't use to playing that type of role (Kitna, Maddox, Warner, etc). Kelly Holcomb, Frank Reich, and others are perfect examples of what backup QBs do; come in and spell of struggling starter or start a few games, otherwise, they cannot consistently win.

Kitna, although 34, is still servicable and the problem is that there aren't many teams that need a starter. When he starts he's effective but he's not a "traditional" backup QB.

[HoosierCat]

A couple blurbs from kffl that would certainly impact Kit's FA hunt if true...

Chargers | Brees might hit free agent market

Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:31:20 -0800

Kevin Acee, of the San Diego Union-Tribune, reports San Diego Chargers QB Drew Brees might be allowed to test the free agent market if the team is unable to sign him to a long-term contract. When asked how the team would respond if he wasn't signed by Thursday, Feb. 23, General manager A.J. Smith said, "I think, looking at it, (the team would say) 'Well, it didn't work out.'" Smith also ruled out using the franchise tag on Brees.

Jets | Pennington could be released

Sat, 18 Feb 2006 06:18:54 -0800

Rich Cimini, of the New York Daily News, reports a person close to New York Jets QB Chad Pennington seemed resigned Friday, Feb. 17, to the likelihood of the quarterback being released in the coming days. "It looks like they're ready to move on," the person said of the Jets. The moment of truth likely will occur next week, when GM Mike Tannenbaum and Pennington's agent, Tom Condon, are expected to meet at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis. It will take a lot of bending from both sides to produce a reworked contract. Pennington is scheduled to make a total of $9 million in 2006 (a $3 million roster bonus, due March 3, plus $6 million in base salary), but he is being asked to take an almost-unheard-of reduction. The Jets want him to forfeit the bonus and reduce his base pay to $1 million, with a chance to recoup the difference with playing-time incentives. There is always a chance the stalemate could end before March 3, but both sides appear entrenched in their positions.

Brees would definitely be more sought-after than Jon. Pennington is a harder call because of injury and durability questions...but I could see a team like the Ravens (the most-oft-mentioned landing spot for Kit) being very interested in him. They want to see if the tail end of last season was a fluke anyhow, so sit him behind Boller and let the shoulder heal back to full, then if Boller continues to suck insert him.

[Kirkendall]

Considering the situation with the Saints as a result of Katrina, I'm willing to overlook just about every aspect of how that team performed that season.

Brooks offers the best combination of physical tools and experience offset by the $ he will command 9or not command). $ still remain to be seen. Of course this is all contingent on him getting released from NO.

But we're not talking about just last season. The team has always been known as chaotic and "under-achieving", starting at their QB position. This guy may have good talent, but coming in as a backup QB? He'd bitch and whine after coming here...

What did you expect, I'd pick the lamest candidate??

NO. I'd expect you to pick someone of equal caliber doing well to support your argument.

But your point is well taken. I'm not as quickly, as others (not you), to rip on Kitna because he's not a super-star arm studded throwing QB. I still think Kitna provides more good than bad for this team.

Brees would definitely be more sought-after than Jon. Pennington is a harder call because of injury and durability questions...but I could see a team like the Ravens (the most-oft-mentioned landing spot for Kit) being very interested in him. They want to see if the tail end of last season was a fluke anyhow, so sit him behind Boller and let the shoulder heal back to full, then if Boller continues to suck insert him.

There's also a lot of talk about Jamal Lewis packaged with a first round pick for Daunte Culpepper. Not sure how much validity it has, but that would certainly change things up.

[Spain]

Im a Mcown man myself. The guy has all the tools, he got victimized in Arizona. He is going to be damn good. He just might need some psyche work to get us a real QB back there. Ive watched this guy alot and he is just kinda stupid and doesnt apear to be the leader he needs to be. Those things can be taught. Zampese will get his checkers out and teach him. However Aron Brooks would be the better backup. He is the next Kordel Stewart. He also is probably more mentally prepared. Mcown will be the better QB IMHO butif your looking for a back up , Brooks is more prepared. However Mcown would eventually pass him. But we need to win those first 6 games. Tough call.

[schweinhart]

Re-signing Kitna just simplifies things given Carson's status.

I can't imagine Aaron Brooks, Josh McCown, Patrick Ramsey, or Brian Griese...ie QBs wanting to be eventual Palmer backups when they would have legit shot at competing for starting jobs longer term on teams like the Jets, Raiders, Saints, Lions, and maybe even the Dolphins or Cowboys.

If the Bengals can't sign Kitna, more likely the Bengals look along the lines of Jamie Martin, Sage Rosenfels, Tim Hasselbeck, Damon Huard or even Shane Matthews again to vie for the backup spots....ie QBs who all make Krenzel seem pretty good and aren't looking to start anywhere unless all goes to hell in handbaskets.

I'd rather the Bengals waited 3 months to see how Carson's rehab is going before they add another QB even if Kitna does sign elsewhere.

[andybren]

I'm still waiting for somebody to explain to me why a good, free agent QB would sign with the Bengals, knowing that Carson will start a majority, if not all of the games next year. And for many years to come.

There's a reason Kitna is willing to leave Cincinnati, and it's the same reason why other QB's aren't going to be lining up to fill his spot.

If Kitna leaves, the QB we end up with will not be special. At best, it will be somebody hoping to get a 1-game audition for the rest of the league.

"Week 1 game against the defending Super Bowl champions? Throwing balls to Chad Johnson on national TV? I guess it's better than competing with Vince Young or Matt Leinart for reps."

EDIT: I guess I should have read Schweinhart's post more closely. What he said. Except if Kitna leaves, you might as well bring in a third guy to throw balls during practice.

[derekshank]

There are only 32 teams... Not everyone can start.

The only teams that I see being interested in a new starter are...

1. Baltimore

2. Miami

3. NY jets

4. Oakland

5. Detroit

6. New Orleans

Leinart, Vince Young, and Cutler will probably be starting on 3 of these teams... leaving Jon Kitna, Josh McCown, Kerry Collins, Aaron Brooks... among other possibilities like Culpepper, Pennington, Billy Volek and either Brees or Rivers, to compete for 3 starting jobs.

I wouldn't expect Kitna to stray too far, because he's not going to be guaranteed a starting job... and if he's going to play the backup role, he might as well do it with Palmer (where he'll get the opportunity to play early in the season) and be in an offense he already knows, with players he already has relationships with.

But what do I know... that's just how I would think about it if I were him.

[Stripes]

With the news that Brees will be on the free agent market, the chances that Jon will still be a Bengal in 2006 have gone up considerably. I'm glad to hear it. I think he has enough in him to pull some 2003 magic and win enough games to keep us in contention while (if) Carson is out.

[buck3y3d]

Those of you who wish Kitna to fail, mainly the OP, are pretty big a-holes. He never complained after his career season when he was benched. He has helped this team succeed. You guys are ungrateful and ignorant.

His time has passed, but to hope "he sucks" is completely wrong.

[ArmyBengal]

Those of you who wish Kitna to fail, mainly the OP, are pretty big a-holes. He never complained after his career season when he was benched. He has helped this team succeed. You guys are ungrateful and ignorant.

His time has passed, but to hope "he sucks" is completely wrong.

I don't think anyone "WANTS" Kitna to fail. I just think the large population of Bengals fans want to see improvement from our backup. Maybe if Kit got more reps, he would be better running this offense. Although, even with more reps, you still have the issue with arm strength and accuracy. Was he part of getting this franchise back on track, YES. Did he ever complain about his role on this team, NO. I just think, as you also stated, his time has passed and would be better suited as a QB coach. God knows I love the mentorship he provided Carson. I do believe now he will be back for another year, but here's to hoping getting those extra snaps gets us through however long it will be until Carson comes back...

WHODEY !!!