Next step with the 17th pick ??

[schweinhart]

Keep that Crowder talk up and I'll be gone full circle on the pick

IMO Davis drops down to #17 because he'd be a small LB and a slow-footed SS (IIRC he clocked around 4.6). But after watching what the Silent Assasin did last year for Bengals, I guess 220-pounders really can play MLB in NFL.

As for Crowder, he is a monster LB...if his head is on straight and he's healthy. I noticed during Gators bowl game w/ Miami that he was pointing to his leg and apparently explaining to the coach why he couldn't go back in. Maybe his injuries problems are chronic or maybe he just didn't want to risk getting shanked and costing himself a big payday in draft.

[TJJackson]

Merriman is more of a freak (and no comparison to Jevon Kearse is intended here) athlete than Crowder, in my opinion.

I'd be happy to get any of the following at 17

DE Merriman

DL S Cody

SS Davis

DE Spears

in that order of preference.

If we take Pollack, Travis Johnson, Antaj Hawthorne, Crowder, or any QB, RB, or WR I will be quite unhappy.

There's some corners I'd be happy with at 17, but ML has already been quite adamant that corner won't be addressed in the draft. Not sure why, but that's what he said.

[Whur CHad At?]

TJJackson Posted on Mar 5 2005, 10:28 PM

If we take Pollack, Travis Johnson, Antaj Hawthorne, Crowder, or any QB, RB, or WR I will be quite unhappy.

Why would you be mad if we drafted Pollack? Or Johnson. Pollack would be a very solid choice, he is a awesome player. And Johnson, yeah he had one great year, but hey that was one Great year and he improved his draft stock a ton. So takin him wouldn't be bad because he would be a huge improvement in the middle.

[TJJackson]

didn't say I'd be mad, said unhappy.

I don't think DT Travis Johnson will be anything but a waste of money for whatever team he signs with. Another Gerald Warren.

I have issue with Pollack's size and personality. I recognize fully that he was a great player at Georgia.

[kurgan74]

Marvin Lewis might be putting up a smoke screen by saying that a cornerback will not be taken with the first pick. I know I was fooled last year into believing the Bengals would not take Chris Perry wih their pick after Marvin's public criticism of Perry for pulling out of the Senior Bowl. If Rolle were there at 17, I could see the Bengals taking him, or they could trade down and get a another second or third round pick.

[chrishcovga]

I think it's still to early to say where we go.  I mean how do you pass on a Braylon Edwards if for some ungodly reason he drops to # 17.  What about Mike Williams. Cedric Benson or Ronnie Brown...??

If there is a skill position player that is just lights out and falls you  gotta take 'em or trade down and make whatever team that wants that player pay for it big time !!  

NO MERCY ON DRAFT DAY !!

Ok, but back to the post, 3 guys we gotta be leaning towards, Johnson,Spears and Cody because of their versatility.

Guys i'm a little scared of now,

Pollack - always looked like a 260 lb linebacker, combine showed he was ! 

Anttaj Hawthorne, Don't get me wrong I would love to grab him in the second round especially if we grab a pure DE in round 1, but his 5.25 time in the 40 has got to be a concern. DT's have to have great short area quickness, and his 10 yard times weren't good either, I wouldn't be surprised if he became this years' Randy Starks and Darnell Dockett. A guy that didn't time well and fell all the way to the 3rd round. - Tid bit: Dockett played pretty darn good!

Braylon Edwards won't fall to the Bengals at #17. You can quote me on that one. As for the other offensive options likely to be available none represents value so outstanding that all consideration of defensive options have to be immediately shelved. Even a player like Mike Williams represents nothing more than good...but not great...value at that spot. So, if he's available...I'd say a player like Mike Williams belongs on the Bengals short list, but once included on that list Williams doesn't dominate it. He simply falls evenly into the mix with a half dozen defensive lineman of equal value.

Are you sick or something..? If Mike Williams falls to # 17 you take him or get a sh*t load of picks for the rights to him plain and simple.

1. A guy like T.J. can be shipped off.

2. Peter Warrick can be shipped off.

3. Kelley Washington can be shipped off.

- Mike Williams is a superb wide receiver. He may not have blazing speed 4.59, but it's still good speed. He has great, not good, but great Hands ! He is unmatchable in the endzone !

And now that Samari Rolle is lined up across from Chris McAlister in Baltimore, how many receivers will it take to keep beating that defense ??

I rest my case.

[TJJackson]

Oh please no, tell me that isn't Antaj Hawthorne in your 'avatar" pic.....

[chrishcovga]

Oh please no, tell me that isn't Antaj Hawthorne in your 'avatar" pic.....

Why yes it is Anttaj Hawthorne ! - Cincy drafts " whoever " in round one, other than a DT, and Hawthorne is there at # 48 , you're going to tell me that , you don't want Cincy to draft him..??

- :player:

[Bobcat Bengal]

Oh please no, tell me that isn't Antaj Hawthorne in your 'avatar" pic.....

Why yes it is Anttaj Hawthorne ! - Cincy drafts " whoever " in round one, other than a DT, and Hawthorne is there at # 48 , you're going to tell me that , you don't want Cincy to draft him..??

- :player:

I'm not gonna tell you that.

I'd rather have Luis Castillo though.

[TJJackson]

I too would rather have Luis Castillo at 48 if Hawthorne was available.

High character high motor player versus underachiever. easy choice for this upcoming Bengals's squad

[schweinhart]

I'd rather see Attiyah Ellison in stripes than either Hawthorne or Castillo.

[HoosierCat]

I'd rather have Luis Castillo though.

We get Castillo in ourlads' latest mock...

...at 17

Talk about climbing the draft board!

http://www.ourlads.com/2005MockDraft.html

[HairOnFire]

Are you sick or something..? If Mike Williams falls to # 17 you take him or get a sh*t load of picks for the rights to him plain and simple.

I think Mike Mayoch said it very well when he stated that Mike Williams didn't have top 10 value last year and he doesn't have it this year. According to Mayoch, in either draft, Williams value falls somewhere between 12 and 20 and added further that the real question is if there's a team out there that is going to ignore Williams poor speed and fall in love with everything else he does. Your remarks make it clear that you think someone will...and I don't disagree at all. Neither does Mayoch. It's quite possible, if not predictable that Williams goes higher than Mayochs opinion of his real value suggests. However, just because I think a player will likely be off the board before the Bengals pick doesn't make me want him more if he were somehow available.

Last, if Williams were somehow available at #17 you'd have to admit that at first glance he's a poor fit for a team that is said to be looking for a true speed receiver.

[schweinhart]

I'd take Mayock lightly about some of what he says.

Demarcus Ware had a good week of Senior Bowl practice, made a mediocre college guard like Ray Willis look like a fool playing out of position at left tackle in practice, then all of the sudden was the 4th best senior in the draft between Cadillac and Antrell IIRC.

I like Ware and all but he has absolutely no clue whatsoever how to approach LB at this point, 3-4 or not. And there's no way in hell he's in the top 5 of seniors.

As for Mike Williams, I just don't see him dropping out of the top 10. Teams definitely want at least 1 speed WR on the field but possession WRs move the chains and tall WRs don't need to be as fast as 5ft-9in CBs when they can just go up and get the ball over top of them.

[Whur CHad At?]

Channing Crowder....enough said. I know they will pick him. So does Rick Hunley

[HairOnFire]

I'd take Mayock lightly about some of what he says.

I take everyone lightly on what they say about the draft...including myself. But I agree with Mayoch when he states that Mike Williams will probably be drafted several spots higher than his standing on a list of best players would dictate. But I'll take his rant a step farther...if Williams were somehow still availabe at #17...I wouldn't say he fell to us or that his appearance on the Bengals short list automatically dictated that Williams be the pick. I'd argue that Williams would have surprising ended up in the draft neighborhood where he always belonged, and would be judged equally with a handful of other options. No better, no worse.

[TJJackson]

I think as of the news about Beckett, SS needs to be our pick at round 1 assuming

http://www.nflfans.com/draft/2005/showplay...Thomas%20Davis*

is available

We have DTs in development, we really don't have a SS in development.

[schweinhart]

I'd say Thomas Davis should be the pick at #17 if the Bengals stay there.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I'd say Thomas Davis should be the pick at #17 if the Bengals stay there.

This Thomas Davis?

Thomas Davis S Georgia 6’1 230

Thomas Davis has bounced around between safety and linebacker at Georgia, but he’s been a playmaker no matter where he lines up. As a sophomore, Davis had a huge season. He ended the season with 138 tackles, 8 for loss, and 4.5 sacks. He was named to various All-American teams for that season. He didn’t put up numbers quite as big as a junior, but he still was a force in the secondary with 73 tackles, 2 for loss, 1 sack, and 1 interception.

You don’t generally find too many players that can bounce from linebacker to free safety, but Davis has that type of versatility. He has the size and strength to line up in the front 7 and be a force, but the athleticism to play deep in coverage. He is very aggressive and physical when attacking the line of scrimmage.

Even though he has played free safety in college, Davis projects to strong safety in the NFL. He doesn’t have the pure foot speed to play free safety. Other than that, experience is really all he lacks. Since he’s spent so much time switching from linebacker to safety, he hasn’t had the time at one spot to fully understand one position.

Thomas Davis is an awesome safety prospect. He looks a lot like Roy Williams physically, and he could have that type of impact in the league with the right coaching to teach him the safety position. If Davis declares, he will be the first safety selected, and is a first round lock. Good workouts should propel him into the Top 20. For a safety to be considered in the Top 20, he has to be special, and Davis has an excellent chance to be taken that high this year.

If so, seeing as how he's a defensive player, and a versitile one at that, I suppose I could live with him at #1. From this article (which I swiped from here Footbals Future BTW) He looks to be a David Fulcher type player. Always a plus!

On a side note, that website had this following guy listed at #17. I'd perfer it if the Bengals made him the 1st pick!

Shaun Cody DE USC 6’4 295

Shaun Cody has been a big part of the resurgence of the USC football program. He has played inside and out for USC, mostly inside, so it has effected his ability to put up big stat totals. His 3 year totals at USC are: 85 tackles, 18.5 for loss, 11 sacks, and 4 blocked field goals. Through 10 games of his senior season, he has 9.5 sacks, as he has spent more time on the outside, having the freedom of rushing the passer more.

Shaun Cody is a football player, period. He isn’t a physical specimen, he just knows how to play the game. He knows how to get to the football whether he is lined up at tackle or end. He is a solid athlete, with the agility and speed to be a threat off the edge. He holds up well at the point of attack, and can shed to make the play. He brings a lot of versatility to the table, as he can play end in the 4-3 or 3-4, and may be able to play tackle in the 4-3. Cody also brings all the intangibles you want in a football player. He is very tough, plays hurt, and he is a team leader. He works hard on and off the field, and is the type of player every coach loves to have on his team.

Cody doesn’t really have any negatives in his game at end. He is not a freak athlete or have great speed, but he is above average in both areas. Some people rate Cody at tackle, and as a tackle, he lacks the pure bulk and strength to hold up at that position. He would need to bulk up if you are drafting him to play tackle for you.

Shaun Cody is a great football player. Whoever gets him is going to get a guy who battles week in, week out. I think he is a lesser version of Richard Seymour. He brings a lot of the skills Seymour does, he just is not quite as big as Richard is. Cody could hear his name come off the board towards the end of the first round, but he should be gone come the middle of the second.

[bengalboomer7]

Marvin will not pick Thomas Davis. He's infatuated with interchangable safeties, not safeties that interchange with linebackers. Davis is not fast enough and isn't that good in coverage so I don't think Marvin is interested

[schweinhart]

Well...what did you think when ML drafted a 220-pound LB who was fastest in the LB class last year?

No question ML wants interchangeable safeties but what is he gonna be more infatuated with, the interchangeability or keeping Jam from reeling off 70 yd runs when one of the interchangeable safeties can't make the tackle near the LOS?

You say Davis is not fast enough and lacks in coverage....This is his rap.

BUT his aggression and ball instincts will help offset the rap.

[bengalboomer7]

I have no idea wht he is more infatuated with, but I don't see Marvin even looking at thie guy at #17

[schweinhart]

On a side note, that website had this following guy listed at #17. I'd perfer it if the Bengals made him the 1st pick!

Shaun Cody DE USC 6’4 295

Shaun Cody has been a big part of the resurgence of the USC football program. He has played inside and out for USC, mostly inside, so it has effected his ability to put up big stat totals. His 3 year totals at USC are: 85 tackles, 18.5 for loss, 11 sacks, and 4 blocked field goals. Through 10 games of his senior season, he has 9.5 sacks, as he has spent more time on the outside, having the freedom of rushing the passer more.

Shaun Cody is a football player, period. He isn’t a physical specimen, he just knows how to play the game. He knows how to get to the football whether he is lined up at tackle or end. He is a solid athlete, with the agility and speed to be a threat off the edge. He holds up well at the point of attack, and can shed to make the play. He brings a lot of versatility to the table, as he can play end in the 4-3 or 3-4, and may be able to play tackle in the 4-3. Cody also brings all the intangibles you want in a football player. He is very tough, plays hurt, and he is a team leader. He works hard on and off the field, and is the type of player every coach loves to have on his team.

Cody doesn’t really have any negatives in his game at end. He is not a freak athlete or have great speed, but he is above average in both areas. Some people rate Cody at tackle, and as a tackle, he lacks the pure bulk and strength to hold up at that position. He would need to bulk up if you are drafting him to play tackle for you.

Shaun Cody is a great football player. Whoever gets him is going to get a guy who battles week in, week out. I think he is a lesser version of Richard Seymour. He brings a lot of the skills Seymour does, he just is not quite as big as Richard is. Cody could hear his name come off the board towards the end of the first round, but he should be gone come the middle of the second.

Without any question, the Bengals are looking for a player w/ DE/DT versaility like Cody. They've already at least looked into enough to have free agents like Bryan Robinson and Ellis Johnson come to town -- DTs weighing in below 295 who would seem gigantic compared to Carl Powell and Big Duane.

Cody is ideally situated as a DE for 3-4 because of his size but that won't prevent him (or the even lighter Jonathan Babineaux) from having some success in the NFL at DT in a 4-3, like your post says.

But #17 seems way to high for Cody to me. The Bengals should at least be able to trade down to #26 and get Cody if that's who they want.

[#85MVP]

who was ray lewis's defensive co-ordinator for his first or 4 years? MARVIN LEWIS

[jjakq27]

Marvin will not pick Thomas Davis. He's infatuated with interchangable safeties, not safeties that interchange with linebackers. Davis is not fast enough and isn't that good in coverage so I don't think Marvin is interested

Also the Bengals don't like to spend 1st round money on safeties.