Dalton issues

[TJJackson]

Wayne is drama and diva

I don't want to get back into the drama/diva business again, especially after enjoying a wonderful year away from it

[Spor_tees]

Wayne is drama and diva

I don't want to get back into the drama/diva business again, especially after enjoying a wonderful year away from it

Did I miss something? I don't believe I have seen Wayne on VH-1 or tweeting a picture of him in his underwear at a casino. If he is a diva, he's a Celine Dion diva who is hardly ever in the news.

[UK Bengal]

Reggie Wayne has sucked since marvin Harrison retired he was better when defences had marvin to worry about I'd rather have meechem

[ArmyBengal]

Saw a new mock on Walter that had us taking OG David DeCastro and CB Janoris Jenkins in the first, RB Montee Ball in the second and another CB Donnie Fletcher in the third. According to who they selected, S Ray Ray Armstrong was still available and that would appeal to me far more than another CB even though I get the need.

If you want to consider the thought of getting a 3rd round comp pick for losing JJoe, a guy like OG/OT Lucas Nix from Pittsburgh would also be a nice pick at that spot.

A draft looking like this through the first 3 rounds looks sick to me:

DeCastro

Jenkins

Ball

Armstrong

Nix

[derekshank]

Saw a new mock on Walter that had us taking OG David DeCastro and CB Janoris Jenkins in the first, RB Montee Ball in the second and another CB Donnie Fletcher in the third. According to who they selected, S Ray Ray Armstrong was still available and that would appeal to me far more than another CB even though I get the need.

If you want to consider the thought of getting a 3rd round comp pick for losing JJoe, a guy like OG/OT Lucas Nix from Pittsburgh would also be a nice pick at that spot.

A draft looking like this through the first 3 rounds looks sick to me:

DeCastro

Jenkins

Ball

Armstrong

Nix

I don't want anything to do with Montee Ball. He's undersized, lacks the burst you look for in a smaller back, and plays behind the best O-Line in college football (seriously... Wisconsin's O-Line is bigger than all but 2 NFL O-Lines). Ball is way overrated.

As for a comp pick for Joseph... it's not going to happen. The contributions the Bengals have gotten from Clements, Howard, and Lawson will nix it.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Saw a new mock on Walter that had us taking OG David DeCastro and CB Janoris Jenkins in the first, RB Montee Ball in the second and another CB Donnie Fletcher in the third. According to who they selected, S Ray Ray Armstrong was still available and that would appeal to me far more than another CB even though I get the need.

If you want to consider the thought of getting a 3rd round comp pick for losing JJoe, a guy like OG/OT Lucas Nix from Pittsburgh would also be a nice pick at that spot.

A draft looking like this through the first 3 rounds looks sick to me:

DeCastro

Jenkins

Ball

Armstrong

Nix

I like the way Walter picks our drafts.

[derekshank]

I like the way Walter picks our drafts.

For the record, the mock draft is Charlie Campbell's... not Walter's.

Walter's has the Bengals taking Janoris Jenkins, Cordy Glenn, Mark Barron (I'd be happy as s**t if he was there for the Bengals in the 2nd round), and Marcus Forston in their first 3 rounds.

As for the continuing the RB discussion... my favorite draft expert has his Top 5 RBs listed. Doug Martin would be worth a look if Polk and Lamar Miller are both gone in the 2nd.

Also, I was looking through the comments section below the article, and found that many people agree with my take on Montee Ball and suggest he is a system back... just like Ron Dayne and Anthony Davis before him. In other words, draft a Wisconsin RB, only after you have braced yourself for disappointment.

[ArmyBengal]

In all honesty, I think the term "system back" is a little misleading. It would suggest they can plug any RB in there and they will be successful and that wasn't the case this year when Ball wasn't in the game for the Badgers. I think using that saying as a way to determine long term success in the NFL is in line with saying that since 1st round WR's have a high bust rate, you should stay away from them and wait. If the Bengals used that thought process, AJ Green wouldn't have been drafted.

I'm not banging the drum for Ball mind you, i'm simply saying I think they are using other RB's outcome as a way to say "this is how it's going to be" for Ball. If you look at what our current o-line's strength is and with the drafting of some more help (hopefully) would it be such a stretch to say Ball would be successful here ??

Anyway around, I think it's just silly to base the future success of one player off of the non success of another.

It's not taking into consideration what exactly one particular player brings to the table.

With that being said, LaMar Miller or Chris Polk would bother me in the least...

[derekshank]

In all honesty, I think the term "system back" is a little misleading. It would suggest they can plug any RB in there and they will be successful and that wasn't the case this year when Ball wasn't in the game for the Badgers.

I disagree. Just because Ball doesn't suck doesn't mean he hasn't benefited greatly from the best run blocking O-Line in college football. He will play in the NFL... I just don't think he deserves to be considered in the first two rounds. If he's there in the 4th, then I'd be ok with it.

But Ball lacks burst, isn't asked to pass block, and is not very good catching passes out of the backfield. He's decent at breaking arm tackles... but he usually makes just one cut and hits a hole, even when there's nothing there. Remind you of anyone? If that's what the Bengals are looking for, they can just keep Benson.

Ball fits better in a zone blocking scheme, and would probably find a lot of success sharing carries with Tate in Houston if they decide not to pay Foster top-5 money.

[ArmyBengal]

In all honesty, I think the term "system back" is a little misleading. It would suggest they can plug any RB in there and they will be successful and that wasn't the case this year when Ball wasn't in the game for the Badgers.

I disagree. Just because Ball doesn't suck doesn't mean he hasn't benefited greatly from the best run blocking O-Line in college football. He will play in the NFL... I just don't think he deserves to be considered in the first two rounds. If he's there in the 4th, then I'd be ok with it.

But Ball lacks burst, isn't asked to pass block, and is not very good catching passes out of the backfield. He's decent at breaking arm tackles... but he usually makes just one cut and hits a hole, even when there's nothing there. Remind you of anyone? If that's what the Bengals are looking for, they can just keep Benson.

Ball fits better in a zone blocking scheme, and would probably find a lot of success sharing carries with Tate in Houston if they decide not to pay Foster top-5 money.

Again Derek, i'm not pimping Ball so if he sucks in all the ways you listed, cool.

My point is, if he benefitted from a good run blocking o-line in college, wouldn't it stand to say he would be able to do the same behind a good run blocking o-line in the NFL ?? I mean, those NFL guys are pretty good and all... I just don't like that line of thought. It doesn't make sense to me.

[derekshank]

My point is, if he benefitted from a good run blocking o-line in college, wouldn't it stand to say he would be able to do the same behind a good run blocking o-line in the NFL ?? I mean, those NFL guys are pretty good and all... I just don't like that line of thought. It doesn't make sense to me.

The level of the competition doesn't come to mind? An NFL level O-Line playing against college defenses has a more powerful effect than an NFL level O-Line playing against NFL defenses.

Besides, many here don't consider the Bengals O-Line to be quality NFL talent. And the run blocking has been pretty poor. They haven't really looked great since '09... so, yeah. I think Ball would struggle here.

Give me a guy like Miller or Polk who have found success behind less than stellar run-blocking.

[skyline]

My point is, if he benefitted from a good run blocking o-line in college, wouldn't it stand to say he would be able to do the same behind a good run blocking o-line in the NFL ?? I mean, those NFL guys are pretty good and all... I just don't like that line of thought. It doesn't make sense to me.

Besides, many here don't consider the Bengals O-Line to be quality NFL talent. And the run blocking has been pretty poor. They haven't really looked great since '09... so, yeah. I think Ball would struggle here.

That's probably the biggest issue. A good o-line can make any back look good, even in the NFL (see Denver back in the day or even Houston now). We simply don't have that. They're not terrible, and we've seen that through Cedric having a bit of success. Still, they aren't the type of o-line that will make any RB look like a superstar.

[ArmyBengal]

Cool...

[TJJackson]

GIMME LINEMEN

[Spor_tees]

Derek I really don't get your take on Ball. What would the guy have to do, to get credit for being a good back? He might break the record for rushing TDs in a season, and he is #1 in college football with 1759 yards. Your opinion is like a catch 22. If he does good, it's because of the line and he doesn't deserve credit, but if he does bad, he sucks because he had a huge O-line and couldn't do anything. It's a lose/lose situation. Personally I like what I have seen out of Ball. 5'11" and 210 lbs isn't "small." Bernard Scott is 5'10" 198 lbs, and many on here have said they would be ok with him as a featured back. About the best fit I can find to compare to Ball is Marshawn Lynch at 5'11" 215 lbs. What I really like about Ball is his balance and how low he runs with the ball. Combine his running style with his build, and he gets lost in a crowd and can gain those extra yards or possibly break a long one coming out of a pile.

Also Frank Gore is 5'9" 217 lbs, he hasn't had too much of a problem in the NFL. Chris Johnson is 5'11" 191 lbs. Not every RB can be a haus like Michael Turner (5'10" 247 lbs) lol

[Trevor]

The guy from miami runs so high,.. Its crazy,.. I htink he could be a frank gore or he could be a freakin bust... Dont know what to think of him

[Spor_tees]

The guy from miami runs so high,.. Its crazy,.. I htink he could be a frank gore or he could be a freakin bust... Dont know what to think of him

The only guy off the top of my head that ran high and did well in the NFL was Eddie George. He sure took a pounding bu he was a workout freak and kept in good shape. He was a pretty tough guy. Before they changed the rules on uniforms, he used to tuck the bottom of his jersey up under his shoulder pads, leaving his mid section open to the elements. He even did in his Senior year in a game against Illinois where it was like 30 degrees below zero with the wind chill. I was at that game in the top deck, and he just so happened to break Ohio States all time record for yards in a game with 314 yards.

Happy Birthday by the way.

[derekshank]

Derek I really don't get your take on Ball. What would the guy have to do, to get credit for being a good back? He might break the record for rushing TDs in a season, and he is #1 in college football with 1759 yards. Your opinion is like a catch 22. If he does good, it's because of the line and he doesn't deserve credit, but if he does bad, he sucks because he had a huge O-line and couldn't do anything. It's a lose/lose situation.

That's kind of how college football works, isn't it? David Klingler threw for 54 TD passes and over 5,000 yards in one season. Stats don't tell the whole story.

Three of Hall's O-Lineman will be drafted this year. One projected as a 1st rounder, one projected as a 2nd rounder, and one projected as a 5th rounder (Oglesby has fallen because of injury concerns). The remaining two O-Linemen are projected to be drafted in 2013 in the 1st and 2nd round. In other words... the majority of the Badgers O-Line would probably be starting if they played for the Bengals.

Here's the issue with his O-Line. We have no idea what kind of vision Ball has. He hasn't needed it at Wisconsin, so who knows if it is good or bad? He always hits the hole that is supposed to be there. Usually it is... but even when it's not, he tries to pound it in there anyway, instead of bouncing to the outside. And he doesn't have good agility or burst to do that in the first place. This is what separates him from Lamar Miller and Polk. They both have outstanding vision. Ball... who knows? I'd be very nervous about drafting a guy like that in the 2nd round.

5'11" and 210 lbs isn't "small." Bernard Scott is 5'10" 198 lbs, and many on here have said they would be ok with him as a featured back.

Well, I'm not one of those people. Scott has good vision, but he routinely gets tackled on first contact.

About the best fit I can find to compare to Ball is Marshawn Lynch at 5'11" 215 lbs. What I really like about Ball is his balance and how low he runs with the ball. Combine his running style with his build, and he gets lost in a crowd and can gain those extra yards or possibly break a long one coming out of a pile.

Marshawn Lynch's greatest attribute is hie acceleration. Something that Ball is lacking.

Here are the reasons I don't like Ball.

1) He doesn't pass block.

2) He hasn't been effective as a pass catcher.

3) He dropped a significant amount of weight before the 2011 season... but didn't gain any burst or agility.

Like I said before... he is a decent one-cut runner, but requires a very effective zone-blocking scheme for success.

[Spor_tees]

I'm not trying to be combative when I ask this, What kind of back do you want the Bengals to have? Are you looking for a bruiser like Benson? or a skitter back like Jones-Drew?

I'll be honest, this draft doesn't really have an AFC North bruiser back. When I say a bruise back I mean that 230-240 lb workload guy that can take 20-25 carries a game without worrying about him wearing down. There are only 2 guys that fit that category for me that I would be interested in. There is Marc Tyler from USC at 5'10" 230 lbs, and Jonas Gray at 5'10" 230 lbs from Notre Dame. Neither guy is a first round talent by any means. I would say Tyler and Gray would be a 3-4 round pick.

There are a few guys that some consider skitter backs that would be high choices. I'll give the top 3. You have LeMichael James out of Oregon at 5'9" and 195 lbs, Isaiah Pead out of Cincinnati at 5'10" 200 lbs, and Jeff Demps out of Florida at 5'8" 191 lbs.James is going to be a first rounder, Pead will probably go in the second, and Demps will go in the 3-4 round range.

You do have a ton of tweeners that you would be unsure what they will be in the NFL. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the tweeners can be every down backs in the NFL, but they aren't backs that you can put in any category. Out of the other guys, if the Bengals were to use a first or second round pick, I would take Polk because of the pick value. I know Polk has some baggage and that is why he will be a value pick at the end of the first, or beginning of the second round. I would also be VERY interested in Demps in the Third round.

[HoosierCat]

Dalton issues? Hensley:

Dalton joins elite company: Andy Dalton finished 18 of 31 for 154 yards but he did have something to remember. With two touchdown passes, Dalton joined Peyton Manning, Charlie Conerly and Dan Marino as the only NFL rookies to throw 20 touchdowns.

None.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Dalton issues? Hensley:

Dalton joins elite company: Andy Dalton finished 18 of 31 for 154 yards but he did have something to remember. With two touchdown passes, Dalton joined Peyton Manning, Charlie Conerly and Dan Marino as the only NFL rookies to throw 20 touchdowns.

None.

That's some heavy s**t there.

[Sea Ray]

I'm not trying to be combative when I ask this, What kind of back do you want the Bengals to have? Are you looking for a bruiser like Benson? or a skitter back like Jones-Drew?

I'll be honest, this draft doesn't really have an AFC North bruiser back. When I say a bruise back I mean that 230-240 lb workload guy that can take 20-25 carries a game without worrying about him wearing down. There are only 2 guys that fit that category for me that I would be interested in. There is Marc Tyler from USC at 5'10" 230 lbs, and Jonas Gray at 5'10" 230 lbs from Notre Dame. Neither guy is a first round talent by any means. I would say Tyler and Gray would be a 3-4 round pick.

There are a few guys that some consider skitter backs that would be high choices. I'll give the top 3. You have LeMichael James out of Oregon at 5'9" and 195 lbs, Isaiah Pead out of Cincinnati at 5'10" 200 lbs, and Jeff Demps out of Florida at 5'8" 191 lbs.James is going to be a first rounder, Pead will probably go in the second, and Demps will go in the 3-4 round range.

You do have a ton of tweeners that you would be unsure what they will be in the NFL. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the tweeners can be every down backs in the NFL, but they aren't backs that you can put in any category. Out of the other guys, if the Bengals were to use a first or second round pick, I would take Polk because of the pick value. I know Polk has some baggage and that is why he will be a value pick at the end of the first, or beginning of the second round. I would also be VERY interested in Demps in the Third round.

You answered your own question. Doesn't look like we have to get a RB early in this draft. We might be able to get the next Rudi Johnson in the 4th rd just like we did many years ago

[Spor_tees]

I'm not trying to be combative when I ask this, What kind of back do you want the Bengals to have? Are you looking for a bruiser like Benson? or a skitter back like Jones-Drew?

I'll be honest, this draft doesn't really have an AFC North bruiser back. When I say a bruise back I mean that 230-240 lb workload guy that can take 20-25 carries a game without worrying about him wearing down. There are only 2 guys that fit that category for me that I would be interested in. There is Marc Tyler from USC at 5'10" 230 lbs, and Jonas Gray at 5'10" 230 lbs from Notre Dame. Neither guy is a first round talent by any means. I would say Tyler and Gray would be a 3-4 round pick.

There are a few guys that some consider skitter backs that would be high choices. I'll give the top 3. You have LeMichael James out of Oregon at 5'9" and 195 lbs, Isaiah Pead out of Cincinnati at 5'10" 200 lbs, and Jeff Demps out of Florida at 5'8" 191 lbs.James is going to be a first rounder, Pead will probably go in the second, and Demps will go in the 3-4 round range.

You do have a ton of tweeners that you would be unsure what they will be in the NFL. Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the tweeners can be every down backs in the NFL, but they aren't backs that you can put in any category. Out of the other guys, if the Bengals were to use a first or second round pick, I would take Polk because of the pick value. I know Polk has some baggage and that is why he will be a value pick at the end of the first, or beginning of the second round. I would also be VERY interested in Demps in the Third round.

You answered your own question. Doesn't look like we have to get a RB early in this draft. We might be able to get the next Rudi Johnson in the 4th rd just like we did many years ago

As far as value goes if the Bengals were to take a running back it would definitely be either Polk round 2, Demps round 3, or Jonas Gray round 4.

[derekshank]

I'm not trying to be combative when I ask this, What kind of back do you want the Bengals to have?

I'm not that worried about style. I'd just like a guy who is more than a one-trick pony. I want a RB that can run between the tackles, pass block, and catch passes out of the backfield. This is why I'm in favor of signing Michael Bush in FA.

If not him, my favorite RB not named Trent Richardson is Polk. But I doubt he'd be there in the 2nd round. I also like Doug Martin if he's available in the 3rd round.

Montee Ball's production will cause a team to draft him much earlier than his talent level demands. Montee Ball is similar to, but only marginally better than Dan Herron. Given the choice between the two... give me Herron in the 5th rather than Ball in the 2nd.

[TJJackson]

With 6 touchdowns against the Ravens, Dalton can tie Peyton's rookie TD throw record :-)

so we have that to lkook forward to as well :-)