Make Lance Briggs a Bengal!

[BengalChamps]

I know I'm dreaming here but Briggs' relationship with daBears has soured. Can you imagine the effect he would have on the Bengals and on the AFC North? I know your going to tell me that he would be too much in draft picks or that our cap could not take it. But what if his presence brought us an AFC championship? Worth it? I say yes! If he could just get our defense turned around Carson can take it from there. If he costs us a first round draft pick so what? We dont seem to use very many of them anyway.

MAKE THE MOVE!!

[Kazkal]

I'll pass at giving up a 1st it would cost,

I think our lbs will be fine when odell returns.

[Stripes]

Hartwell will do.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'll pass at giving up a 1st it would cost,

I think our lbs will be fine when odell returns.

Well, do remember it's "if" Odell returns, not when....

That said, I'm always very leery of a guy who's not the best on his team going to be "the guy" on another team. I'm thinking Alvin Harper, Peerless Price kinds of guys, but a similar effect can be seen with Denver RBs, Edge James trying to carry the load in Arizona, etc. I bet you'll see a similar effect with Osi UmnIcantspellthiss**t with teh Giants if Strahan leaves. I think Briggs benefits from being on a team with Urlacher and the rest of the Bears' defense, so I don't think he's probably as good as he looks.

He'll want major coin - probably FA kind of coin - *and* the Bears will want a pick (as you say). No way you give both. If Briggs is willing to take a discount relative to the pick we have to give up....maybe. But there's still the fact that we'll still be taking a second banana and making him the big guy here. Not to mention which, we don't run the Tampa 2, so we'd be way overpaying for a WLB.

So I'm with you, screw it.

[Crazy4Bengals]

Personally, I think Odell is a flash in the pan and will NEVER EVER be a serious part of the Bengals team. You can't make someone who is just one mistake away from being banished from the league forever a penned in starter. At best, you let him back someone up, and make sure that you always have someone who is as good as him there that you can count on him.

Briggs is good, but he's not good enough to change our defense. We need TACKLING SKILLS from everyone else on the team, not another guy.

I wouldn't mind having him as a Bengal, but I don't see him as an answer.

On the other hand, I have great hopes for Caleb Miller to continue to improve and be a dependable KK style backup, and for Ahmad Brooks to keep his butt out of trouble and solidify the middle. More importantly, I think Jeannty will get better and Henderson being moved to LB will be a great move.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Personally, I think Odell is a flash in the pan and will NEVER EVER be a serious part of the Bengals team. You can't make someone who is just one mistake away from being banished from the league forever a penned in starter. At best, you let him back someone up, and make sure that you always have someone who is as good as him there that you can count on him.

Briggs is good, but he's not good enough to change our defense. We need TACKLING SKILLS from everyone else on the team, not another guy.

I wouldn't mind having him as a Bengal, but I don't see him as an answer.

On the other hand, I have great hopes for Caleb Miller to continue to improve and be a dependable KK style backup, and for Ahmad Brooks to keep his butt out of trouble and solidify the middle. More importantly, I think Jeannty will get better and Henderson being moved to LB will be a great move.

If Odell makes it back to the team he will be a starter sooner or later, he is to talented to let sit on the bench. OTOH I agree that the team will need to have a solid backup in place for insurance if his idiot genes take over again.

[Spor_tees]

As far as the league policy goes, is it anything like the points system for drivers where if someone stays clean for a long time, they drop backwards in the discipline process? Odell is one step away from being a lifer, but if he was to stay clean 5 years, then violate, would he still get the NFL death sentence? If this is the case, and there is no rewards for a player staying "clean" for a long stretch of time, then I believe there is a flaw in the system. Look at all these young guys, who could get "clean" and play so for 8+years before screwing up again.

Thoughts?

[Walrus]

As far as the league policy goes, is it anything like the points system for drivers where if someone stays clean for a long time, they drop backwards in the discipline process? Odell is one step away from being a lifer, but if he was to stay clean 5 years, then violate, would he still get the NFL death sentence? If this is the case, and there is no rewards for a player staying "clean" for a long stretch of time, then I believe there is a flaw in the system. Look at all these young guys, who could get "clean" and play so for 8+years before screwing up again.

Thoughts?

I've thought the same thing as I've heard nothing about these "strikes" going away. You're right, it does seem to be flaw in the policy.

As to your other question, I wouldn't put money on any of these guys staying clean for 8+ years. Although among Henry, Jones, T. Johnson and Thurman I'd lean towards Thurman or Johnson staying clean the longest. But who the heck knows. I guess Vegas probably has odds on this, though...

[Kazkal]

Personally, I think Odell is a flash in the pan and will NEVER EVER be a serious part of the Bengals team

If he's on the team and the best player at the position you play him and if he returns to form he will probably be the best LB we have.

[BengalChamps]

On the other hand, I have great hopes for Caleb Miller to continue to improve and be a dependable KK style backup, and for Ahmad Brooks to keep his butt out of trouble and solidify the middle. More importantly, I think Jeannty will get better and Henderson being moved to LB will be a great move.

Sorry, but no way. Caleb Miller does not change this D to a top 10 or even 15 ranked D. Brooks can not play pass coverage(at least not last year). If Henderson was a game changer, woundn't he have been on the field already? Jeanty is just adequate.

For all you Odell fans... he will not be able to keep himself out of trouble so you can just forget about your 5 year senario. (I hope I'm wrong)

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

On the other hand, I have great hopes for Caleb Miller to continue to improve and be a dependable KK style backup, and for Ahmad Brooks to keep his butt out of trouble and solidify the middle. More importantly, I think Jeannty will get better and Henderson being moved to LB will be a great move.

Sorry, but no way. Caleb Miller does not change this D to a top 10 or even 15 ranked D. Brooks can not play pass coverage(at least not last year). If Henderson was a game changer, woundn't he have been on the field already? Jeanty is just adequate.

For all you Odell fans... he will not be able to keep himself out of trouble so you can just forget about your 5 year senario. (I hope I'm wrong)

Who the hell said top 10? Babysteps....

[membengal]

The real question is:

Why is Lance Briggs so lazy?

[BengalByTheBay]

The real question is:

Why is Lance Briggs so lazy?

No, the real question is:

How lazy is Lance Briggs.

[Crazy4Bengals]

On the other hand, I have great hopes for Caleb Miller to continue to improve and be a dependable KK style backup, and for Ahmad Brooks to keep his butt out of trouble and solidify the middle. More importantly, I think Jeannty will get better and Henderson being moved to LB will be a great move.

Sorry, but no way. Caleb Miller does not change this D to a top 10 or even 15 ranked D. Brooks can not play pass coverage(at least not last year). If Henderson was a game changer, woundn't he have been on the field already? Jeanty is just adequate.

For all you Odell fans... he will not be able to keep himself out of trouble so you can just forget about your 5 year senario. (I hope I'm wrong)

Wow, you're one heck of a pessimist.

First of all, please read again and pay attention this time. Caleb is a dependable BACKUP, like KK was. He's not going to blow the game for you.

Secondly, why didn't Henderson play last year? BECAUSE HE WAS NOT LISTED AS A LINEBACKER! They spent last year and the off season putting him into Pollack's role.

Third, Brooks AND Jeanty were ROOKIES last year. Rookies make mistakes. Another year of experience will be big.

But you know, what do you care. In your mind, it seems there is no answer anyway, and the defense can't possibly improve.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Third, Brooks AND Jeanty were ROOKIES last year. Rookies make mistakes. Another year of experience will be big.

Not only that - Brooks was a rookie that missed all of the OTAs, was put into a LB corps that was basically a disaster, and put into a position where he needed to play MLB - captain of the defense position - with little preparation.

Jeanty was damned good last year for a FA out of the CFL.

I expect significant improvement for both. I'm one of few (apparently) who expects improvement for our LBs this year, despite cutting Simmons loose.

[BengalChamps]

But you know, what do you care. In your mind, it seems there is no answer anyway, and the defense can't possibly improve.

Uhh... I care. Yes there is an answer. Making NO personel changes in the front seven is not my idea of an answer. Two years ago I might have bought the whole "they need another year to develop" argument. You win with ALL-Pros. We need to find some. We have plenty on Offense. NONE on Defense. You cant continue to do the same thing with the same players every year and expect to get better results.

[Crazy4Bengals]

But you know, what do you care. In your mind, it seems there is no answer anyway, and the defense can't possibly improve.

Uhh... I care. Yes there is an answer. Making NO personel changes in the front seven is not my idea of an answer. Two years ago I might have bought the whole "they need another year to develop" argument. You win with ALL-Pros. We need to find some. We have plenty on Offense. NONE on Defense. You cant continue to do the same thing with the same players every year and expect to get better results.

Making NO personel changes to the front seven? Where do you get that?

Change #1: Domata Peko, Ahmad Brooks, Eric Henderson, Rashad Jeanty were ALL rookies last year. All will be moving into their second year, and some will have a chance to be starters.

Change #2: Eric Henderson was moved to linebacker, where his size is less of a detriment, and his speed is more of an asset.

Change #3: Get rid of Brian Simmons, who frankly, was a bit small for what we needed.

Change #4: Bring in Ed Hartwell

Change #4: Bring in Kenderick Allen at DT

Change #5: Bring in Michael Myers at DT

That's just off the top of my head for changes for THIS season.

This years defense will look little like last years.

[membengal]

The real question is:

Why is Lance Briggs so lazy?

No, the real question is:

How lazy is Lance Briggs.

Damn. Well corrected.

I retire to my lazy shame hole.

[BengalChamps]

But you know, what do you care. In your mind, it seems there is no answer anyway, and the defense can't possibly improve.

Uhh... I care. Yes there is an answer. Making NO personel changes in the front seven is not my idea of an answer. Two years ago I might have bought the whole "they need another year to develop" argument. You win with ALL-Pros. We need to find some. We have plenty on Offense. NONE on Defense. You cant continue to do the same thing with the same players every year and expect to get better results.

Making NO personel changes to the front seven? Where do you get that?

Change #1: Domata Peko, Ahmad Brooks, Eric Henderson, Rashad Jeanty were ALL rookies last year. All will be moving into their second year, and some will have a chance to be starters.

Change #2: Eric Henderson was moved to linebacker, where his size is less of a detriment, and his speed is more of an asset.

Change #3: Get rid of Brian Simmons, who frankly, was a bit small for what we needed.

Change #4: Bring in Ed Hartwell

Change #4: Bring in Kenderick Allen at DT

Change #5: Bring in Michael Myers at DT

That's just off the top of my head for changes for THIS season.

This years defense will look little like last years.

Dont get me wrong. I will be rooting my but off for these new players and the retreads. But to get to get to the next level, we need a Ray Lewis or Urlacher type who HAS to be accounted for by the offense. Maybe one of these guys will develop.

[HoosierCat]

The biggest reason (IMHO of course) that the defense has failed to develop has been the draft. Defensive selections in the Marvin era have either turned out to be poor picks or the victims of bad luck on a depressingly regular basis.

None of the defenders drafted in Marvin's first draft in 2003 -- Dennis Weathersby, Khalid Abdullah, Langston Moore and Elton Patterson -- remain with the team.

The 2004 class has produced very mixed results. Geathers turned out to be a good pick once the coaching staff quit trying to turn him into Carl Powell Jr. Madieu Williams had a great rookie campaign, but hasn't been the same post-injury and his future is on the line this season. Keiwan Ratliff has been a bust and Greg Brooks can't stay healthy. LBs Miller and Johnson have been capable backup/ST types but neither could win a starting job.

2005's defensive choices were Pollack, Odell and Fanene. We all know about the first two. Fanene may or may not make the final cut this year.

From the 2006 class, Nicholson is already gone. Joseph looks like a winner (finally!), as does Peko. Frostee remains an unknown.

Bottom line, until the Bengals start drafting better talent on D, things are unlikely to improve significantly.

[BengalChamps]

The biggest reason (IMHO of course) that the defense has failed to develop has been the draft. Defensive selections in the Marvin era have either turned out to be poor picks or the victims of bad luck on a depressingly regular basis.

None of the defenders drafted in Marvin's first draft in 2003 -- Dennis Weathersby, Khalid Abdullah, Langston Moore and Elton Patterson -- remain with the team.

The 2004 class has produced very mixed results. Geathers turned out to be a good pick once the coaching staff quit trying to turn him into Carl Powell Jr. Madieu Williams had a great rookie campaign, but hasn't been the same post-injury and his future is on the line this season. Keiwan Ratliff has been a bust and Greg Brooks can't stay healthy. LBs Miller and Johnson have been capable backup/ST types but neither could win a starting job.

2005's defensive choices were Pollack, Odell and Fanene. We all know about the first two. Fanene may or may not make the final cut this year.

From the 2006 class, Nicholson is already gone. Joseph looks like a winner (finally!), as does Peko. Frostee remains an unknown.

Bottom line, until the Bengals start drafting better talent on D, things are unlikely to improve significantly.

Well said.

Hence my logic in trading a #1 pick if necessary. We dont use them effectively anyway. Will Briggs have an immediate impact on the Bengals and the AFC North? I say YES!

[Crazy4Bengals]

The biggest reason (IMHO of course) that the defense has failed to develop has been the draft. Defensive selections in the Marvin era have either turned out to be poor picks or the victims of bad luck on a depressingly regular basis.

None of the defenders drafted in Marvin's first draft in 2003 -- Dennis Weathersby, Khalid Abdullah, Langston Moore and Elton Patterson -- remain with the team.

The 2004 class has produced very mixed results. Geathers turned out to be a good pick once the coaching staff quit trying to turn him into Carl Powell Jr. Madieu Williams had a great rookie campaign, but hasn't been the same post-injury and his future is on the line this season. Keiwan Ratliff has been a bust and Greg Brooks can't stay healthy. LBs Miller and Johnson have been capable backup/ST types but neither could win a starting job.

2005's defensive choices were Pollack, Odell and Fanene. We all know about the first two. Fanene may or may not make the final cut this year.

From the 2006 class, Nicholson is already gone. Joseph looks like a winner (finally!), as does Peko. Frostee remains an unknown.

Bottom line, until the Bengals start drafting better talent on D, things are unlikely to improve significantly.

Well said.

Hence my logic in trading a #1 pick if necessary. We dont use them effectively anyway. Will Briggs have an immediate impact on the Bengals and the AFC North? I say YES!

I say no. My second favorite team in the league is Da Bears, and I can tell you that Briggs is a result of Urlacher and company. Bring him here, and he turns into Landon Johnson. Solid, but no superstar.

[Kirkendall]

Dont get me wrong. I will be rooting my but off for these new players and the retreads. But to get to get to the next level, we need a Ray Lewis or Urlacher type who HAS to be accounted for by the offense.

...of which, most posters here had given that title to Odell. I'm with the if Odell is back, let him play, crowd. If he screws up, he screws up and the NFL or Bengals will do something about it. But if he's with the team, hell, play him. Take it week by week.

At the same time, if finances allow and the trade was realistically possible -- which it's sooooo not -- then you HAVE to entertain the idea of picking up a player like Briggs. It would be too much of the 90s Bengals to not entertain the option.

[GapControl]

The biggest reason (IMHO of course) that the defense has failed to develop has been the draft. Defensive selections in the Marvin era have either turned out to be poor picks or the victims of bad luck on a depressingly regular basis.

The 2004 class has produced very mixed results. Keiwan Ratliff has been a bust and Greg Brooks can't stay healthy.

Bottom line, until the Bengals start drafting better talent on D, things are unlikely to improve significantly.

But, but, but... Hoosier?!?! Geoff Hobson SAID Ratliff is the star of the offseason. What do you mean bust?