Graham or Rackers?

[jjakq27]

Shayne Graham out-bombed former Bengals head-case Neil Rackers by making a 65 yard field goal during a skills competition the other day. I don't think Travis Dorsch was there though.

http://www.bengals.com/news/news.asp?story_id=5077

Graham is also "Mr. 80-SPF wearer" from the Real Men of Genius ads from Budweiser.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art.../602110407/1078

[cincy9275]

it's good to see shane getting the upper hand on rackers and just shows he is a better kicker . way to go shane

[Kazkal]

Damn 65? sweet

[BengalszoneBilly]

Shayne Graham out-bombed former Bengals head-case Neil Rackers

C'mon Tony. Neil has done an incredible job while playing for Arizona. (These images are from the Cardinals training camp in 2005, about five miles from here where I live in Prescott, Arizona.)

And it's generally not indicative of NFL record holders to be "head cases." On the other hand, we are talking about kickers. Their personalities usually lend themselves to be superstitious, and more quirky than most other NFL players. Besides, I'm an expert on head cases and Neil doesn't come close. Five days a week I work for the biggest micro managing, anally oriented head case this side of the Dr. Phil show!

The point is the there is no doubt that these guy's are two of the best kickers in the NFL, if not THE best two kickers. A quick flashback to the Super Bowl lends me to believe that Seattle would have been far better off with either one of these guys than they were with Josh Brown. Would anyone care to argue that?

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Can't really blame Rackers for sucking in Cincy. It's all about the field.

[BengalSIS]

Can't really blame Rackers for sucking in Cincy. It's all about the field.

The field played a huge role. And once confidence was screwed up due to field, the lack of support from fans didn't help. Imagine getting booed and stuff thrown at you at home games when you are still a rookie?

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Hey Sis, has anyone told you Annika looks a lot like Shayne! If the hair was a bit brighter red, with that smile, dead ringer!

[BengalsOwn]

it's good to see shane getting the upper hand on rackers and just shows he is a better kicker . way to go shane

yeah, that really proved it

even though rackers attempted 10 more FG's than Graham, and they were much longer kicks that Shaynes average, he only missed 2 compared to the 4 shayne missed.

and let's not even get into the kickoff aspect of the game...

[turningpoint]

WTF is the point of a thread like this on a message board that is obviously bengals biased?

These are and always will be the dumbest threads here and aren;t even worth talking about, anyways enough with this thread.

[jrandom42]

it's good to see shane getting the upper hand on rackers and just shows he is a better kicker . way to go shane

yeah, that really proved it

even though rackers attempted 10 more FG's than Graham, and they were much longer kicks that Shaynes average, he only missed 2 compared to the 4 shayne missed.

and let's not even get into the kickoff aspect of the game...

And how well did Rackers do kicking in places like Buffalo in December? Just a little bit of difference in kicking a ball in the sunny desert of Arizona than kicking a cold rock hard ball in the snow and wind of some place like Ralph Wilson Stadium.

[turningpoint]

it's good to see shane getting the upper hand on rackers and just shows he is a better kicker . way to go shane

yeah, that really proved it

even though rackers attempted 10 more FG's than Graham, and they were much longer kicks that Shaynes average, he only missed 2 compared to the 4 shayne missed.

and let's not even get into the kickoff aspect of the game...

And how well did Rackers do kicking in places like Buffalo in December? Just a little bit of difference in kicking a ball in the sunny desert of Arizona than kicking a cold rock hard ball in the snow and wind of some place like Ralph Wilson Stadium.

cause SF and SEA are easy places to kick fg's on the road at.

Anyways that arguement is totally pointless, 90% of kicks are missed due to the kicker hooking the kick or aiming it wrong, the other 5% are the snappers fault, and the last 5% of all kicks comes down to the weather.

90% of the time blame the f**king kicker, if shayne graham can hit a 65yd fg, then well it's all kickers fault also if they're short on a 50yder.

[jjakq27]

Shayne Graham out-bombed former Bengals head-case Neil Rackers

C'mon Tony. Neil has done an incredible job while playing for Arizona.

And it's generally not indicative of NFL record holders to be "head cases." On the other hand, we are talking about kickers. Their personalities usually lend themselves to be superstitious, and more quirky than most other NFL players. Besides, I'm an expert on head cases and Neil doesn't come close. Five days a week I work for the biggest micro managing, anally oriented head case this side of the Dr. Phil show!

The point is the there is no doubt that these guy's are two of the best kickers in the NFL, if not THE best two kickers. A quick flashback to the Super Bowl lends me to believe that Seattle would have been far better off with either one of these guys than they were with Josh Brown. Would anyone care to argue that?

Bill, you ignorant slut......

Seriously, I used to be one of Neil Rackers biggest boosters when he got here. I went to the first preseason game at PBS and watched as Rackers hit several into the middle of the net from 45 yards out, while Doug Pelfrey struggled to barely make it over the cross bar. I also liked his aggressive style on the field when he would try to make a tackle on a kickoff.

But I also nearly caught a ball on a FG attempt sitting in my seat which is a section-and-a-half from the goal posts. I lived and died with every kickoff and extra point attempt that he tried. I know the field was bad but some of the other kickers that came in here didn't seem to have trouble. Perhaps some of it was just knowing that every point counted with this team because it was so bad. Maybe the Travis Dorsch thing didn't help either.

I am glad that he is doing well in Arizona. A change of scenery definitely did him some good, but I will still take Shayne Graham any day. I also like the fact that he paid for Kyle Larson and Brad St. Louis to go to Hawaii with him and his girlfriend. BengalSis, why didn't you go?

[BengalSIS]

it's good to see shane getting the upper hand on rackers and just shows he is a better kicker . way to go shane

yeah, that really proved it

even though rackers attempted 10 more FG's than Graham, and they were much longer kicks that Shaynes average, he only missed 2 compared to the 4 shayne missed.

and let's not even get into the kickoff aspect of the game...

And how well did Rackers do kicking in places like Buffalo in December? Just a little bit of difference in kicking a ball in the sunny desert of Arizona than kicking a cold rock hard ball in the snow and wind of some place like Ralph Wilson Stadium.

cause SF and SEA are easy places to kick fg's on the road at.

Anyways that arguement is totally pointless, 90% of kicks are missed due to the kicker hooking the kick or aiming it wrong, the other 5% are the snappers fault, and the last 5% of all kicks comes down to the weather.

90% of the time blame the f**king kicker, if shayne graham can hit a 65yd fg, then well it's all kickers fault also if they're short on a 50yder.

I'm interested in hearing where those % come from. Cuz the weather is a major factor in WHERE the kicker aims left or right or drives it or lifts it. I think I see part of your point, but I think those numbers are not a good representation of how it really is. As a for instance, if you saw the 65 yard kick, he aimed it way left (a risky thing to do for a soccer style right footed kick seeing as that is the natural hooking direction anyway) and the wind brought it back right. So he may have had some wind assistance for the distance, but it wasn't all to his back. He had to play the wind. The warm temps probably helped keep the ball up a little also. I don't deny that a 65 yarder that still had room for a few more yards, would likely not have gone in in PBS.

[turningpoint]

well the gravity is higher at sea level also...

I could actually calculate the velocity and angle at which he needs to kick the ball cause I'm a engineering major, but I'm not wasting my time.

I'd also need the exact gravity there and here, and see the difference in how far the ball would fly.

Anyways graham is the best kicker in the nfl right now, and him nailing that 65yder was amazing.

I've met him on several occasions and is a stand out man, so don;t think I'm trying to imply he's not a good kicker.

BTW that 90% includes him compensating for the wind, the 5% weather is just what happens after he kicks it.

kicker have kicked over 1,000 kicks so they have where to aim down by judging the wind almost instinctually I;d like to think,but a gust could easily f**k that up whle in mid flight.

It's a hard as hell job to do and doing 28-32 is amazing.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Bill, you ignorant slut......

SLUT!?! SLUT!?! SLUT!?!

Guilty as charged your honor! I'm taking the 5th on that ignorant part though...

[jjakq27]

Bill, you ignorant slut......

SLUT!?! SLUT!?! SLUT!?!

Guilty as charged your honor! I'm taking the 5th on that ignorant part though...

http://snltranscripts.jt.org/77/77rupdate.phtml

http://www.saturday-night-live.com/snl/weekendupdate.html

It's merely an old SNL reference Bill. Nothing more.

[Stripes]

I wouldn't think the field or the weather would have affected Rackers as a Bengal quite as much as inconfidence and the treatment he received from fans. Golden Graham is more than good enough to meet our needs at kicker. Given the huge number of touchdowns we will be scoring in the near future, we could give him a great shot at the "most consecutive extra points converted to start a career or in general" records.

[DontPushMe]

s**t happens, it often takes a change of scenery for a kicker to become great. Graham was cut by 2 teams I believe before he made his way here.

Either way, I'd take Adam Vinateri over Graham or Rackers because i have no idea how those 2 handle the kind of pressure that doesnt even phase Vinateri.

[buck3y3d]

Rackers > Graham

Kicking is more than field goals (which Rackers is better at anyway).

[cincy9275]

it's good to see shane getting the upper hand on rackers and just shows he is a better kicker . way to go shane

yeah, that really proved it

even though rackers attempted 10 more FG's than Graham, and they were much longer kicks that Shaynes average, he only missed 2 compared to the 4 shayne missed.

and let's not even get into the kickoff aspect of the game...

lets put them on our field at 30 degree weather then you will see why shane is a whole hell of a lot better kicker. it is good to see rackers find his niche but i would not take him over shane

[BengalSIS]

Rackers > Graham

Kicking is more than field goals (which Rackers is better at anyway).

I like Rackers. But Shayne doesn't have the second best career % in NFL history for nothing. He's been very consistent, and he kicks in harsher climates.

They are both good.

And DontPushMe, Vinny has missed some easy ones, and he didn't have a good year this year, so I'm not sure about the comment that pressure kicks don't phase him.

[BengalsOwn]

well the gravity is higher at sea level also...

I could actually calculate the velocity and angle at which he needs to kick the ball cause I'm a engineering major, but I'm not wasting my time.

I'd also need the exact gravity there and here, and see the difference in how far the ball would fly.

Anyways graham is the best kicker in the nfl right now, and him nailing that 65yder was amazing.

I've met him on several occasions and is a stand out man, so don;t think I'm trying to imply he's not a good kicker.

BTW that 90% includes him compensating for the wind, the 5% weather is just what happens after he kicks it.

kicker have kicked over 1,000 kicks so they have where to aim down by judging the wind almost instinctually I;d like to think,but a gust could easily f**k that up whle in mid flight.

It's a hard as hell job to do and doing 28-32 is amazing.

not as amazing as 40-42.

[Stripes]

not as amazing as 40-42.

But does anyone expect Rackers to kick like that on a consistent basis? Prior to this season, he has been outright bad, and one record breaking year isn't enough to dub him an elite kicker in the NFL. Golden Graham is the 2nd most accurate kicker in NFL history (as BengalSIS stated) and in my book, THAT is amazing.

[BengalSIS]

well the gravity is higher at sea level also...

I could actually calculate the velocity and angle at which he needs to kick the ball cause I'm a engineering major, but I'm not wasting my time.

I'd also need the exact gravity there and here, and see the difference in how far the ball would fly.

Anyways graham is the best kicker in the nfl right now, and him nailing that 65yder was amazing.

I've met him on several occasions and is a stand out man, so don;t think I'm trying to imply he's not a good kicker.

BTW that 90% includes him compensating for the wind, the 5% weather is just what happens after he kicks it.

kicker have kicked over 1,000 kicks so they have where to aim down by judging the wind almost instinctually I;d like to think,but a gust could easily f**k that up whle in mid flight.

It's a hard as hell job to do and doing 28-32 is amazing.

not as amazing as 40-42.

Rackers had an incredible year. No doubt. He made a lot of long kicks. But a large majority of those kicks came in bunches at ideal conditions. It's still amazing though. He deserves all the praise he gets this year. And I don't think he was as bad as the numbers stated his first years in Cinci either. He was a rookie, on bad turf, and quickly without the support of his fans. Hopefully, that experience has toughened him a bit and will just help him in the future.

[BengalsOwn]

not as amazing as 40-42.

But does anyone expect Rackers to kick like that on a consistent basis? Prior to this season, he has been outright bad, and one record breaking year isn't enough to dub him an elite kicker in the NFL. Golden Graham is the 2nd most accurate kicker in NFL history (as BengalSIS stated) and in my book, THAT is amazing.

He was pretty decent last year (2004)