Return of the Poverty-Stricken, Cap-Strapped Bengals

[HoosierCat]

Last, I'm reminded that last seasons free agent strategy of retaining Rudi, Pootie Tang, and Braham accomplished more than Joisey expected, but he still gave it a failing grade due to the failure to bring in outside help.

And I'm again reminded of your failing memory...try a C.

http://forums.bengalszone.com/index.php?showtopic=4747&st=0

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Not True, TNBT. Shaun Alexander will be switching teams, as well as the Edge. I foresee a lot of movement this year.

Alexander's agent is already in talks with Seattle about a new contract. He is going nowhere.

As for James, Indy has shown they are willing to pay their offensive players to stay, and he just had a great season. He's going nowhere.

[HairOnFire]

Last, I'm reminded that last seasons free agent strategy of retaining Rudi, Pootie Tang, and Braham accomplished more than Joisey expected, but he still gave it a failing grade due to the failure to bring in outside help.

And I'm again reminded of your failing memory...try a C.

In my defense, I used to smoke alot of weed.

That said, it's been your habit to give the Bengals an F before free agency even begins, rounding the grade slightly upwards with each move you agree with. For example, tagging Rudi last offseason, the most important move the Bengals made all year, only raised your grade from an F to the lofty heights of an F+. Frankly, I've never understood that sort of thinking, and if this thread is proof of anything it's that you're setting yourself up to do the exact same thing this year. My question is why? The Bengals are letting you in on the strategy and you have to see it's merit even if you don't agree with it. So why insist on going negative before free agency even begins?

Cripers, just listen to what you wrote AFTER the Bengals had locked up Rudi and Housh:

My take so far:

Bengals began with an F. No cuts, no resutrcturing, no moves at all to preposition themselves to be a player in FA.

Tagged Rudi. OK, now they're up to an F+. At least they preserve their options, but now there's a big cap charge that kills any real FA hopes.

Resigned Housh. That pushed it to a D in my book. Resigned Wilkins. D+. Hadn't got any outside help we could point to as an improvement but at least they were keeping their own performers.

Signed Robinson. That raises the grade to a C. Not the best they could have done at DT but an upgrade.

[bengalboomer7]

When it comes to giving players money, I don't think the Bengals have ever been cheap in that respect. For a long time their choices weren't wise, but they also weren't cheap(see Pickens and Dillon). Where I think the Bengals became percieved as cheap was in the perks. Trainig facilities and team locker rooms, and extra towels, stuff like that. Marvin drastically changed this as soon as he got here.

When I think of the Bengals being a historically cheap franchise, this is what they skimped on.

And hobson always downplays the #'s in this respect. But the differences in 16 mill and 10 mill are huge, and this seems to me to be a little blip of propoganda to rationalize a sloww off season.

[kingwilly]

bengals business sill moving forward on the cheap....consider the comments made about the indoor practice facility:

"Brennan also said such a major investment of the club’s “finite resources” would have to be weighed against other possible expenditures that could help the team’s prospects."

What kind of spun answer is that?? A MAJOR investment...what other possible expenditure could help the teams prospects more thatn somehting that EVERY OTHeR cold weather team has???

"They are just one of six of the 32 teams – and the only one in a cold-weather climate – that lacks an indoor practice facility. "

El Cheapo the penny-pincher rears his head...Mike brown is making more money than EVER before. how is this even a question any more???

[derekshank]

Yeah... I don't really buy into the idea that the Bengals don't have money for FA. We clearly do... but I also think I too easily get sucked into the hype of looking at players from other teams.

Well, given how far you have to go down in the FA rankings to find the first Bengal...

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&...3&lnid=83&rc=16

...and that's Jon Kitna....well, not hard to look covetously elsewhere around the league, eh?

And yeah, they have the money. It is possible -- in fact, very common -- to spend some "cash over cap" without endangering the long-term cap outlook. But the Bengals categorically refuse. Instead they treat the cap as a hard ceiling and claim poverty, as Hobs has already begun doing. And that tells me this year will be (surprise) no different. I expect they will manage an extension or two, but any FAs will be the usual collection of scrubs, journeymen, and waiver wire pickups.

Ah Joisey... you're making a fundamental error in assumption. Just because we don't have many top tier players that are Free Agents right now, doesn't mean we have no other way to use that money on our own talent. Simply extending the great players we do have so that they don't become free agents, or desire to hold out, though not sexy, does appear to be the best way to do business.

If the Bengals are smart, we won't have to talk about whether another team will be able to steal Steinbach or Levi, or any other top-tier FA's from the Bengals. I am perfectly content with never having a top-tier free agent from our team appear on any list of available players... because that only means the Bengals have done a good job of extending contracts via proactive measures.

We clearly have great players... we went 11-5, so it's not as if our team is so devoid of talent that there is never the opportunity for great players going to free agency. It simply means that over the last few years, Mike Brown/Marvin Lewis has done a good job of securing the players we want. So, while you are right in that we need to fill the holes because of players we are losing in FA... the assumption that the Bengals are obligated to go after a top-tier free agent might just go against the grain of the Marvin Lewis strategy.

Retaining our own talent, and building through draft. Marvin hasn't been shy that this is the way he wants to do business. Sure... there is always the need to get a few new faces via FA to fill holes and add depth... but Marvin made it clear... Free agency is not the way he's planning on building this team.

You're also right that we have the money to go after big name free agents if we want to, and Hobson is a spin doctor... but just because we don't use the money in that way doesn't make it wrong. It requires patience to re-build a team that was 2-14 just a few years ago. We're now so close to being a Super Bowl team, and a perennial playoff team... and not once have we signed a big name free agent to get there (not to mention that that is probably a main reason we are still in good cap shape). Perhaps we should trust the philosophy of the guy who so quickly turned this team into a success, rather than mimicking the mistakes of over spenders like the Redskins and Raiders.

[Spain]

Wow they say that s**t every year, then they go and strike out in fas big name contests, Vincent, Sapp etc. You really must think of 2 different fas. the first round and the second. Whan we make our cap cuts we wil free more money. The Bengals have thrown money at guys the players just didnt want to play here. Now they will. Marvin has ruled out a corner., but he said he is going for a safety. It wouldnt suprise me if we went for archuleta. He alkso wants a S Smith type DT some 335 guy. Look for a guy like Ma ake at of Baltimore. It will be interesting but there is plenty of cap space. Just who you going to cut. My list

B Robinson

Clemmons

Herring

Ohhateme

That right there is 4 mil( I think)

Levi, steinbach, and J Smith need extended

[HoosierCat]

Perhaps we should trust the philosophy of the guy who so quickly turned this team into a success, rather than mimicking the mistakes of over spenders like the Redskins and Raiders.

Where did I say we had to be like Davis or Snyderbrenner? The Steelers were about $5 million over the cap; the Bettis retirement gets them back to about even. It's common for teams, even small-market ones, to play cap games on such a limited basis. The Bengals, however, refuse to do it at all. Note that isn't a complaint, simply a statement of fact. And Hob's math suggests that won't change this season.

As for extending our own studs, I'm all for it. But if you are talking about extending a LT and RT and a pair of guards...well, that $4 mill is woefully inadequate. It certainly wouldn't surprise me, and would please me, if they extended Levi before the draft, for example. But if they didn't and then took a tackle at 24, would anyone really be surprised?

Honestly, this and the next few offseasons are going to present an increasing challenge to the Bengals' traditional way of doing business. In that model, they indeed have ponied up for their own stud players -- but since the dawn of FA in the early 90s they've never had very many such players. Even if you brush away all Hob's blather and assume that, after subtracting the tenders for RFAs, they have about $12 million to play with...that's still not a lot when you are talking about both right and left tackle, 2 of football's most expensive slots, plus both guards, plus defensive end (with Justin up soon).

Never mind other teams' FAs, just keeping the existing squad together may be prohibitively expensive as long as the Bengals won't do cash-over-cap.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Yeah... I don't really buy into the idea that the Bengals don't have money for FA. We clearly do... but I also think I too easily get sucked into the hype of looking at players from other teams.

Well, given how far you have to go down in the FA rankings to find the first Bengal...

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=211&p=9&c=12&...3&lnid=83&rc=16

...and that's Jon Kitna....well, not hard to look covetously elsewhere around the league, eh?

And yeah, they have the money. It is possible -- in fact, very common -- to spend some "cash over cap" without endangering the long-term cap outlook. But the Bengals categorically refuse. Instead they treat the cap as a hard ceiling and claim poverty, as Hobs has already begun doing. And that tells me this year will be (surprise) no different. I expect they will manage an extension or two, but any FAs will be the usual collection of scrubs, journeymen, and waiver wire pickups.