County Lawsuit Dismissed

[buck3y3d]

Make Mike Brown pay for his own practice facility. I'm tired of spending money for a team that turns a substantial profit every year. If they need one, pay for it himself. He didn't spend crap for 15 years.

From now on, when you post on the topic of an indoor facility and support it, could you please include a tag saying if you live inside of Hamilton County? If you do, do you realize the temporary tax hike for 20 years will only pay off 50 percent of these stadiums.

We need things in Hamilton County, not a practice facility for a team that plays a sports OUTSIDE on gamedays. It's a sport, get over it.

First of all, where did you ever get the idea the Bengals wouldn't be paying for their own practice facility?

Secondly, you complain about spending money for a team that turns a profit every year. Do you complain when you pay your bill to the gas and electric company? They make profits every year. Do you complain when you pay taxes on your gasoline? Gas companies make profits every year. Do you complain when you pay a sales tax on clothing you buy? Kmart makes profits most years.

Quitchurbitchen. I live in Hamilton County, and guess what, even people who don't often SHOP in Hamilton County. And if you don't want to pay the tax, you are free to drive to Northern Kentucky and go to the Florence Mall to shop. After all, it's a SALES TAX, not a homeowners tax. If it were a land tax of some sort, then perhaps homeowners in Hamilton County could complain about it. Even trailer trash.

1. The Bengals have not paid for anything in the past 2 decades. Hamilton County had a deal post 2000 where our tax dollars paid for every single unsold seat. I already payed for the stadium and now I have to pay for seats. BTW, i attend Bengals games with a ticket, I don't get to attend the game when I pay my sales tax.

2. there is a difference between luxaries and necessities. For the basic econ lesson, one has elastic price ranges, the other inelastic. Football falls into the elastic price range, and Mike Brown exploited Cincinnati. Cinergy, Kmart (which is bankrupt - good try though), and gas companies don't expect my tax dollar to build them a warehouse. I am aware of subsidies for energy companies, but these are Federal grants, not local.

3. I live in central Hamilton County. My point is the sales tax hike is it's not going to come anywhere close to paying off the stadium, and the idea that we should pay more is ridiculous. Please don't call me trailer trash, that is unjustified, and no, I'm not trailer trash. I do however have more respect for them than you seem to carry.

Hamilton county could use a sales tax to fund programs like the MRDD and other initiatives to help the people. I love football, but it doesn't help me or make me happy on Monday through Saturday.

It's pretty obvious Mike Brown never intended to build a practice field, and honestly, I actually agree with him. We don't need one.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

It's pretty obvious Mike Brown never intended to build a practice field, and honestly, I actually agree with him. We don't need one.

My God man - please explain yourself. And I'm sure the other 26 teams in the league who have them would like to know why they don't need their's also.

The SuperBowl Champion Steelers and Patriots' teams from the last several years will have a good laugh.

Not being abrasive - just sarcastic - really want to know why ANYONE would think an indoor practice field is "not" an absolute necessity here? It's so typical ass backwards Cincinnati, that it's laughable.

Do you "want" the Bengals' to have the competitive advantages every other cold weather team currently has?

Or are you really that concerned about Mike Brown's $2.5 million?

[HoosierCat]

Not being abrasive - just sarcastic -

That's OK. I can tell the difference.

really want to know why ANYONE would think an indoor practice field is "not" an absolute necessity here? It's so typical ass backwards Cincinnati, that it's laughable.

Well, for starters there are already facilities that the Bengals can, and do, take advantage of when needed, namely that place out in Mason. Does it mean a bus ride? Sure, but that isn't that great a hardship. Try commuting in and out of NYC on a daily basis and you'll spend more time on trains and/or busses in a day than the Bengals will in a year. Speaking from experience, I just can't get all that worked up over it.

Do you "want" the Bengals' to have the competitive advantages every other cold weather team currently has?

How has it been a competitive advantage? The Bengals didn't have a bubble all through the Eighties and they went to the Super Bowl twice. Not having an indoor practice facility certainly wasn't the problem in the Nineties. And not having a bubble wasn't responsible for Kimo kneecapping Carson. Don't get me wrong: I'd be happy to see them build a bubble, but despite Hair's insistence it isn't on my list of things worth complaining about.

[HairOnFire]

So after eight years of avoiding the issue, you think two days, or two more years, is going to make a difference? My, you are gullible, aren't you?

(((Shrug))) The above quote is an example of Joisey lobbing insults while NOT complaining. Oddly enough, his most recent complaints are being made in regards to money Mike Brown hasn't spent for a practice facility Joisey doesn't want OR feel is needed. If that seems strange to you, well....it shouldn't, as most of Joisey complaints have to do with the ways Mike Brown doesn't spend Mike Brown's money. And it hardly matters if the expense being considered is wise or foolish, or if Joisey actually wants the thing being considered. No, he just wants to see constant reminders that money is being spent.

If this seems odd to you, well...just ask your wife or girlfriend to explain it to you.

As for the practice facility itself, I too don't care very much one way or another what the Bengals decide. But in my opinion it has always seemed a little ridiculous to assume that two days after a 600 million dollar lawsuit has been dismissed, and before the matter of future appeals has been decided, the Bengals would be in a position to announce whatever their plans for an indoor practice facility might be. There's also the matter of the millions of dollars in legal expenses the lawsuit bled from the Bengals, and the impact that had on their willingness to invest large sums of money on items of questionable need or outright luxury.

Ehh?

[HoosierCat]

Oddly enough, his most recent complaints are being made in regards to money Mike Brown hasn't spent for a practice facility

Again...where did I say anything of the sort? Obviously you can copy and paste.

I can wait...

[HairOnFire]

Complaining about nothing? No, not our boy Joisey.....

Indoor practice facility? Sounded good while the suit was on. But now..."major investment"..."finite resources"..."no room"..."won't help for 10 months"...same old same old...

The Bengals have been flirting with a bubble since Geoff had a real job. But somehow, they always find an excuse not to, such as, in 2002, interference from a proposed light rail link. Mike Brown, as already noted, added the new wrinkle of the lawsuit 14 months ago. Just four months back, near mid-season, Marvin Lewis himself could be seen lobbying for a bubble, with blame for a delay being placed on the lawsuit. But now that the lawsuit is gone? Yup: same old same old. Bengals have been finding excuses not to spend the money for a bubble for eight years. And as I pointed out in my original post, that didn't change when the suit was dismissed.

The lawsuit was the "change." Buidling the bubble was all the rage suddenly, from Mikey to Marvin...but alas the lawsuit was now in the way. No suit? Well, we're back to the same old thing: lots of reasons why it can't be done.

So after eight years of avoiding the issue, you think two days, or two more years, is going to make a difference? My, you are gullible, aren't you?

[HoosierCat]

Complaining about nothing? No, not our boy Joisey.....

As I suspected, you can copy and paste. None of those comments, however, are complaints, but simply statements of fact. You're welcome to keep trying, though...

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Not being abrasive - just sarcastic -

That's OK. I can tell the difference.

really want to know why ANYONE would think an indoor practice field is "not" an absolute necessity here? It's so typical ass backwards Cincinnati, that it's laughable.

Well, for starters there are already facilities that the Bengals can, and do, take advantage of when needed, namely that place out in Mason. Does it mean a bus ride? Sure, but that isn't that great a hardship. Try commuting in and out of NYC on a daily basis and you'll spend more time on trains and/or busses in a day than the Bengals will in a year. Speaking from experience, I just can't get all that worked up over it.

Do you "want" the Bengals' to have the competitive advantages every other cold weather team currently has?

How has it been a competitive advantage? The Bengals didn't have a bubble all through the Eighties and they went to the Super Bowl twice. Not having an indoor practice facility certainly wasn't the problem in the Nineties. And not having a bubble wasn't responsible for Kimo kneecapping Carson. Don't get me wrong: I'd be happy to see them build a bubble, but despite Hair's insistence it isn't on my list of things worth complaining about.

I understand and respect your sentiments on this - but I'm failing to see the logic tie-ins to my argument.

Driving an hour away every time you need to practice indoors, AND having to make reservations to do so seems silly to me when you have players making millions. They should be able to walk over to their bubble in bad weather and practice any time they damn well please - I want the Bengals' players to have that option any time of the year. As it stands, Palmer, for instance, cannot practice or throw to his WR's when it's raining hard or there's 3-6 inches of snow on the ground - they cannot do it effectively. They have no options unless they reserve the space in Mason ahead of time and drive up there.

In the 80's, players didn't make millions, they didn't have billion $ TV deals, etc..., and sweet stadium deals funded by taxpayers, and last I checked the Bengals' have never actually won a SuperBowl, and haven't had a winning season for 15 years until this past season.

I don't know what I'm missing here that the other 26 cold weather teams have also apparently.

If it were not that big of a deal, none of the other teams would have an indoor facility either.

So I completely disagree!

[HoosierCat]

Driving an hour away every time you need to practice indoors, AND having to make reservations to do so seems silly to me when you have players making millions. They should be able to walk over to their bubble in bad weather and practice any time they damn well please - I want the Bengals' players to have that option any time of the year. As it stands, Palmer, for instance, cannot practice or throw to his WR's when it's raining hard or there's 3-6 inches of snow on the ground - they cannot do it effectively. They have no options unless they reserve the space in Mason ahead of time and drive up there.

All of that may be true...but OTOH I've never heard any complaints about the lack of a bubble from players, except for the times when they are asked about it directly, and even then their complaints are mild. Their biggest beef appears to be the bus ride more than anything else, and I can't get worked up over that.

last I checked the Bengals' have never actually won a SuperBowl, and haven't had a winning season for 15 years until this past season.

None of which would have been any different had they had a bubble.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Make Mike Brown pay for his own practice facility. I'm tired of spending money for a team that turns a substantial profit every year. If they need one, pay for it himself. He didn't spend crap for 15 years.

From now on, when you post on the topic of an indoor facility and support it, could you please include a tag saying if you live inside of Hamilton County? If you do, do you realize the temporary tax hike for 20 years will only pay off 50 percent of these stadiums.

We need things in Hamilton County, not a practice facility for a team that plays a sports OUTSIDE on gamedays. It's a sport, get over it.

First of all, where did you ever get the idea the Bengals wouldn't be paying for their own practice facility?

Secondly, you complain about spending money for a team that turns a profit every year. Do you complain when you pay your bill to the gas and electric company? They make profits every year. Do you complain when you pay taxes on your gasoline? Gas companies make profits every year. Do you complain when you pay a sales tax on clothing you buy? Kmart makes profits most years.

Quitchurbitchen. I live in Hamilton County, and guess what, even people who don't often SHOP in Hamilton County. And if you don't want to pay the tax, you are free to drive to Northern Kentucky and go to the Florence Mall to shop. After all, it's a SALES TAX, not a homeowners tax. If it were a land tax of some sort, then perhaps homeowners in Hamilton County could complain about it. Even trailer trash.

1. The Bengals have not paid for anything in the past 2 decades. Hamilton County had a deal post 2000 where our tax dollars paid for every single unsold seat. I already payed for the stadium and now I have to pay for seats. BTW, i attend Bengals games with a ticket, I don't get to attend the game when I pay my sales tax.

2. there is a difference between luxaries and necessities. For the basic econ lesson, one has elastic price ranges, the other inelastic. Football falls into the elastic price range, and Mike Brown exploited Cincinnati. Cinergy, Kmart (which is bankrupt - good try though), and gas companies don't expect my tax dollar to build them a warehouse. I am aware of subsidies for energy companies, but these are Federal grants, not local.

3. I live in central Hamilton County. My point is the sales tax hike is it's not going to come anywhere close to paying off the stadium, and the idea that we should pay more is ridiculous. Please don't call me trailer trash, that is unjustified, and no, I'm not trailer trash. I do however have more respect for them than you seem to carry.

Hamilton county could use a sales tax to fund programs like the MRDD and other initiatives to help the people. I love football, but it doesn't help me or make me happy on Monday through Saturday.

It's pretty obvious Mike Brown never intended to build a practice field, and honestly, I actually agree with him. We don't need one.

1. Let me get this straight, the Bengals haven't paid for anything? They didn't pay for a new training area? They didn't pay to expand their scouting department? They didn't pay for anything at all huh? Nice try.

2. Yes indeed there is a difference between necessity and luxury. Guess what, football and baseball in Cincinnati are not luxuries. Perhaps for the individuals going to the games they are, but for the city, they are not. Those stadiums bring business to this city. They bring how many Steelers fans to the stadium each year? How many Clowns? How many hotel rooms are rented, dinners purchased, and how much shopping is done at The Banks because of the stadiums? Oh yeah, my bad, I forgot, the local schlubs complaining because they made a bad deal with the Bengals and the NFL and want a doover like an elementary kid trying to shoot a basketball dropped the ball completely on the rest of the riverfront building project. Meanwhile, the Newport Levy has prospered. As for Kmart not expecting your taxes to do business, perhaps kmart was a bad example. But correct me if I'm wrong, didn't the lovelies downtown offer Lazarus a good deal on land, tax rebates, etc. to keep their store downtown? Doesn't P&G get plenty of tax breaks to keep their operations in Cincinnati? Are you so ignorant as to think that your taxes don't help these companies do business in Cincinnati?

3. You live in central Hamilton county? So what's preventing you from a trip down to Northern Kentucky to do your shopping or northward to Butler County? Laziness? Did I call you trailer trash? I don't think so. I merely stated that even someone who owned a trailor and paid taxes had a right to complain if and only if they were taxed more based on where they lived. They aren't. You don't have a right to complain when you do not have to pay the tax if you chose not to.

4. You want to use the money to fund programs for MRDD? How does that help me? I enjoy watching football, and having football to talk about here in Cincinnati year round, all week long. It's not just 8 games a year. I enjoy buying jerseys, going to the games and having lunch before the game and dinner after the game downtown. I don't mind paying for parking. The stadium downtown and the Bengals franchise draw me to spend more in Hamilton County. Keeping them here makes sense. On the other hand, funding the MRDD does nothing for me other than be another welfare program. It doesn't help the people, it hurts them by giving them handouts instead of hands up. If you want to donate to such programs, feel free to do so. I don't want my tax dollars being spent on welfare any more than they already are. Not only that, but you act as if the tax is ONLY to pay for Paul Brown Stadium. It's not. Remember, that same tax built Great American Ballpark. It was also to pay to build The Banks. The COUNTY was responsible for cost overruns when building the stadiums, as much so as the Bengals and the NFL. It also included additional downtown parking, which was lost in the shuffle. Also, one third of that sales tax was used as a rebate to cut the cost of property taxes for county residents. Over $10 million of that tax money went to schools. The Freedom Center got money out of that tax hike as well. Next you'll want to take that back too. Let us not forget the Fort Washington Way rebuild which also took money out of this same sales tax hike.

It's not like the county said this is a tax for The Bengals and the NFL to keep them in town. It's not like it was forced on you, unless of course you didn't bother to have your voice heard and vote on the issue. At the time, I lived in Butler County and worked in Hamilton County, so I didn't get to vote on the issue. But I pay the tax.

[HoosierCat]

Related nugget from kffl.com...

Dolphins | Work begins on practice bubble

Wed, 15 Feb 2006 21:13:13 -0800

Jeff Darlington, of the Palm Beach Post, reports construction of a practice field with a bubble-shaped roof for the Miami Dolphins has begun. The project will cost ownership $9 million, Dolphins president Bryan Wiedmeier said Wednesday, Feb. 15.

Either the 'fins are building the mother of all bubbles, or the cost estimates for a Bengals facility are way off.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Related nugget from kffl.com...

Dolphins | Work begins on practice bubble

Wed, 15 Feb 2006 21:13:13 -0800

Jeff Darlington, of the Palm Beach Post, reports construction of a practice field with a bubble-shaped roof for the Miami Dolphins has begun. The project will cost ownership $9 million, Dolphins president Bryan Wiedmeier said Wednesday, Feb. 15.

Either the 'fins are building the mother of all bubbles, or the cost estimates for a Bengals facility are way off.

Or perhaps a bubble that doesn't have to be able to withstand a freaking hurricane is cheaper than one that does.

Or maybe there is a cost savings to a bubble that is heated as opposed to air conditioned.

Not to mention that the Bengals have land to build it on, and the Dolphins may not. Or even if both had to buy land, the cost for the land in Miami is far higher than in Cincinnati.

There's a difference between a bubble built for Miami weather and Cincinnati weather. You can't compare them any more accurately than you can a to a bubble you blow out of a bottle of soapy water or a pack of gum.

[HairOnFire]

Complaining about nothing? No, not our boy Joisey.....

As I suspected, you can copy and paste. None of those comments, however, are complaints, but simply statements of fact. You're welcome to keep trying, though...

Statement of facts? I'd say remarks about..."same old same old"...was just a whining opinion, not a fact.

And I'd say it isn't a fact when within a day or two of the lawsuits dismissal you're already barking about the Bengals failure to announce the start of construction of an indoor practice facility that you don't even think is needed. That isn't a statement of fact, it's a whining opinion.

And I'll go even further and state that it isn't a fact, but yet another example of a whining, complaining, and bleating opinion...when you claim that the Bengals will never build an indoor practice facility within our lifetime or until global climate change occurs.

You're welcome to continue you're daily complaining though. I've grown used to it...as well as your denials that you're doing it.

[HairOnFire]

Related nugget from kffl.com...

Dolphins | Work begins on practice bubble

Wed, 15 Feb 2006 21:13:13 -0800

Jeff Darlington, of the Palm Beach Post, reports construction of a practice field with a bubble-shaped roof for the Miami Dolphins has begun. The project will cost ownership $9 million, Dolphins president Bryan Wiedmeier said Wednesday, Feb. 15.

Either the 'fins are building the mother of all bubbles, or the cost estimates for a Bengals facility are way off.

Or perhaps a bubble that doesn't have to be able to withstand a freaking hurricane is cheaper than one that does.

Or maybe there is a cost savings to a bubble that is heated as opposed to air conditioned.

Not to mention that the Bengals have land to build it on, and the Dolphins may not. Or even if both had to buy land, the cost for the land in Miami is far higher than in Cincinnati.

There's a difference between a bubble built for Miami weather and Cincinnati weather. You can't compare them any more accurately than you can a to a bubble you blow out of a bottle of soapy water or a pack of gum.

The Mother of all Bubbles. I like that. Still, I think the practice field built a few years ago by the Browns costs more than double what the Dolphins are planning to spend. Then again, much of the cost was related to built in offices and meeting rooms. If I remember correctly it's off-site, rigid style construction, and the covered practice field is only about 45-50 yards long.

I doubt very much that the Bengals are very far along in planning any indoor facility. In fact, the last time I read anything related to the actual construction they weren't even sure if the best plan involved covering the existing practice field or building and covering an additional practice field of much smaller size on a remote site. Regardless, two million won't buy much.

[HoosierCat]

Statement of facts? I'd say remarks about..."same old same old"...was just a whining opinion, not a fact.

Nope. Sorry, chumly, but "same old same old" just acknowledges eight-plus years of empty talk about a bubble.

And I'd say it isn't a fact when within a day or two of the lawsuits dismissal you're already barking about the Bengals failure to announce the start of construction of an indoor practice facility

Still looking for where I did any such "barking."

And I'll go even further and state that it isn't a fact, but yet another example of a whining, complaining, and bleating opinion...when you claim that the Bengals will never build an indoor practice facility within our lifetime or until global climate change occurs.

Nope again. Just a simple, plain reading of the facts.

Keep trying, tho...

[HairOnFire]

Nope again. Just a simple, plain reading of the facts.

Keep trying, tho...

Sorry, until you actually add something of substance...instead of constantly trying to spin your whining complaints into hard factoidal nuggets...there's no reason to keep pointing out that you apparently don't know the difference between opinions and facts. You're just not getting it, and I fear you may be incapable of learning.

"Same old same old"...isn't a fact. It's a whining opinion.

"We'll never get an indoor practice facility in our lifetimes"...isn't a fact. It's tear-jerked woman-styled complaining.

BTW, the Bengal.com article about Marvin's contract extension mentions the indoor practice facility again. Perhaps you should write Hobson a sobbing e-mail demanding to know why the bulldozers still aren't moving?

[HoosierCat]

Sorry, until you actually add something of substance...

Nope. Everything I've said has been of substance. And the fact your posts have been reduced to nothing more than unsupported assertions, gratuitious insults, and smiley icons speaks volumes about your inability to refute it. Take "same old same old" (again) as an example. Did I not provide you with eight years worth of empty talk by the Bengals on the bubble? Yup. Was there anything different in their "whoa, hold the phone" talk rsented in Curnutte's latest? Nope. Just same old same old. And that's a fact.

But keep trying.

[HairOnFire]

Nope. Everything I've said has been of substance. And the fact your posts have been reduced to nothing more than unsupported assertions, gratuitious insults, and smiley icons speaks volumes about your inability to refute it.

Nothing you've said has been of substance. Nothing.

Not from the moment you used quotes that were several years old to imply the Bengals had suddenly changed their plans after the lawsuit was dismissed, to the point where you offered over-the-top whining about how "nothing would be done in our lifetime" is a statement of fact.

You've repeatedly mislabed your own complaints and opinions as facts, and by my count are now more than a week into a crying jag over the lack of progress being made in regards to a practice facility you see no need for.

And you might as well drop the complaints about gratuitous insults because you're the one why claimed that I was being gullible simply because I hadn't joined your complaint filled rant two days after the lawsuit was dismissed. But you never miss an opportunity to be the first poster to whine or complain about how the Bengals should spend their money, do you? Who else gives a team a grade of F before free agency even begins? Who else complains about the lack of progress made in regards to something you don't want?

As for my own insults, the worst I can think of is I said you were complaining like a chick...which you keep proving by whining about everything, including my incredibly effective use of smilie icons.

[HoosierCat]

Nothing you've said has been of substance. Nothing.

Assert away. That doesn't make it true. If same old same old isn't a fact, it ought to be easy to disprove, no? Well, go on.

by my count are now more than a week into a crying jag over the lack of progress being made in regards to a practice facility you see no need for.

Crying? Again, where? Where have I issued one complaint? Oh, right, nowhere.

Who else gives a team a grade of F before free agency even begins?

Ah, first the assertions, then the insults, now the non sequitors. Same old hair.

[HairOnFire]

Same old hair.

And I'd say some old Joisey, but never before have I seen you get so sensitive about the use of a smilie or a deliberately silly description.

You'd actually ban me over this stuff?

Wow.