Draft history

[Italian fan]

Sometimes Bengals draft in past years (before Marvin era) were criticized but in my opinion some good players were selected and then not utilized properly. Lamont Thompson, Marquand Manuel and Kelly Gregg are examples. I know some busts were chosen (Sean Brewer,Trasvis Dorsch etc.) but the most important thing brought by Marvin was perception because he has changed it. I think he and his staff were wrong about some draft choices as Caleb Miller, Kelley Washington for example but he has found a way to reverse our fortune and nobody can criticize him as previous coaches for some bad players drafted.

[KMH14]

Sometimes Bengals draft in past years (before Marvin era) were criticized but in my opinion some good players were selected and then not utilized properly. Lamont Thompson, Marquand Manuel and Kelly Gregg are examples. I know some busts were chosen (Sean Brewer,Trasvis Dorsch etc.) but the most important thing brought by Marvin was perception because he has changed it. I think he and his staff were wrong about some draft choices as Caleb Miller, Kelley Washington for example but he has found a way to reverse our fortune and nobody can criticize him as previous coaches for some bad players drafted.

I agree that Marvin has changed the perception of this entire franchise. I also agree that some serviceable

players were chosen by the Bengals and then not fully utilized. I think the difference lies in when Marvin chooses his players versus when the prior staff(s) chose these players. For example, KW was taken in the third round. I belive that the "experts" felt KW was a talented player coming off an injury and thus he was

a great pick in the third round if he panned out or not. Conversely, I believe the "experts" felt that Brewer could have been selected later in the draft and that the third round (I believe) was too early to take him. These experts felt there were better players left on the board when Brewer was selected. This motto seemed to prevail at most Bengals drafts during the prior drafts.

[BengalByTheBay]

I agree to a limited extent. Yes, not every pick prior to Marvin Lewis was a bust and not every single pick by ML has been pure genius. But, generally speaking, I do think draft day is totally transformed. The biggest problem before was IMO a lack of any kind of organization or plan in the draft. It seemed like they didn't pick purely for need or for BPA. They seemed to kind of drift back and forth between the two philosophies a lot which resulted in players that didn't match well into the system, at times, and good players that were maybe taken a little too high. ML always professes to operate on a BPA philosophy and seems to do so for the most part. He also seems to be willing to take on difficult "projects". Sometimes these end up looking pretty good (Thurman, Henry), sometimes.....(Askew, KWash) not as much. I don't think you could call any of the Lewis drafts a real "bust" except possibly Weathersby (and that was just incredibly bad luck). On the other hand, Lewis has gotten some real jems at spots that pretty much everybody agrees were damn sweet -- Thurman, Williams, LJ, etc.

So, you're probably right that there is a large part that is simply the perception that ML has it all together, but it's probably because he handles the media well and always seems to be organized about it.

[Tasher]

I would argue with the Weathersby pick being a bust in that he was a very high 2nd round pick at the very worst going into the draft, was shot and fell due to the injury. I think that we got him with a fourth or fifth round pick, that had he ended up healthy, would have been a HUGE steal and real value. In the end he ended up being very unlucky, was healthy going into camp one year, hit a pole (or something to that effect) and was never the same again. The Bengals had to part ways. I think it was an okay risk in the situation. No it did not pan out on the positive side. But you have to take chances for risk/reward payoff.

Right now we are saying that Askew is a bust, but I would argue that this year would have been his true rookie year had he stayed in school. So really, we need to wait till after camp and arguably into this next season to see where he is at. He was also a late round pick, so if he ends up being a solid contributor I think that the pick will have paid off. If he ends up being a starter in the next couple of years, then the pick will have been a huge steal. We just have to wait and see.

We need to remember that each drat takes about three years to evaluate the true results. As we are seeing, Marvin's first draft (Carson) is paying some pretty big dividends! You also have to look at the number of draft picks that are still on the roster and Marv has a pretty high number from his three years, compared to any set of three year periods you might choose to look at pre-Marvin (discussed in several news articles recently, but I do not remember which one in particular).

[BengalByTheBay]

My point on Weathersby was that he was the only one you could possibly argue was a bust because he never contributed anything to the team. With all of his off-the-field injuries he was really more of the unluckiest guy you could ever meet than a bust IMO. I don't even believe you should call Kwash a bad pick because he's actually produced fairly well when he plays. I know everybody hates his first down kick, but that aside I would think a lot of teams will take a long look at him if/when we tender him. Askew, man I simply don't know. I would love it if that kid works out, but he hasn't got much time left I would think -- one more camp?

[Dan2330]

Please tell me the Bengals have more than 6 scouts like they did a few years ago?

[ArmyBengal]

Calling Weathersby a bust is a little off at best. Calling him unlucky as hell is VERY acurate. He never had the chance to make any contribution, as opposed to being given the chance only to F**K it up...

WHODEY !!!

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Calling Weathersby a bust is a little off at best. Calling him unlucky as hell is VERY acurate. He never had the chance to make any contribution, as opposed to being given the chance only to F**K it up...

WHODEY !!!

The definition of a bust is a guy who doesn't pan out after being drafted. Weathersby is a bust. However, we knew he might be, even without the auto accident. He was a risk that was taken and it didnt' pan out.

[Stripes]

The definition of a bust is a guy who doesn't pan out after being drafted.

Well that right there is the entire argument... How to define "bust"? I would say a "bust" is someone that fails badly to live up to the expectations of his fans and coaching staff when given the opportunity to shine. Weathersby never got his chance.

Someone like Ki-Jana both had injuries and struggled some on the field, and that has earned him the bust label in the eyes of many. Still, even though he was drafted #1 overall, nobody would call him a bigger bust than the likes of #3 overall Akili Smith, who never had as many injury issues.

[TJJackson]

I would disagree with anyone calling Weathersby a bust.

Star crossed? unlucky as all get out? Yes.

Bust? No.

To be a bust, you have to have opportunity to sink or swim. Weathersby never had opportunity. It was bad luck for the Bengals, worse luck for him personally.

If you take opportunity out of the equation, my dead grandmother is a bigger bust for the Bengals than Weathersby because she never contributed to the Bengals success, nor will she ever have an opportunity to do so at some later time. I am only slightly less of a bust because I - as I am still alive at 42, a 42 year old overweight non athletic glasses wearing short armed man with minimal ability to run, block, catch, or tackle - have an infitesmal chance of contributing to the Bengals as a player.

[ArmyBengal]

The definition of a bust is a guy who doesn't pan out after being drafted.

Well that right there is the entire argument... How to define "bust"? I would say a "bust" is someone that fails badly to live up to the expectations of his fans and coaching staff when given the opportunity to shine. Weathersby never got his chance.

Someone like Ki-Jana both had injuries and struggled some on the field, and that has earned him the bust label in the eyes of many. Still, even though he was drafted #1 overall, nobody would call him a bigger bust than the likes of #3 overall Akili Smith, who never had as many injury issues.

Absolutely and thank you !!!

WHODEY !!!

[andybren]

I would argue that you have to be drafted in the first 3 rounds to be a bust. After that, the gamble isn't that great, the odds are more likely that you will fail, and nobody really cares when you do.

My favorite story about how bad the Bengals drafts were pre-Marvin, was when Peter Warrick went to the Bengal draft room after being picked and convinced the team to also pick his old FSU teammate Ron Dugans. I don't know or care if that was a good pick, I just know that I smiled when Marvin finally cut him.

Dugans, that is.

[Tasher]

So, therefore, Carson is now a bust because we picked him up #1 overall and he has only played for 3 years, only 2 years as a starter (first year as a starter end prematurely due to injury), his playoff record is Oh-fer and his return (ever) is highly speculative and doubtful at best.

Right?

[andybren]

Maybe we need to establish what our expectations are from players before we determine whether or not they are "busts".

There's a huge difference between a first round skill player (Klingler, Carter, Smith) and an injured fourth round CB (Weathersly).