How attached did you get to Carson this year?

[rob_justdmb]

The thing about it is, Chad is funny and he's a hell of a player, but he's not as likable as Carson. Carson never talks trash, always says the right things, always credits Marvin, the line and Kitna. He seems very calm, but you know he has the fire. Remember late in the season when he slid late, and still got hit (I think against Detroit?) he jumped up and sort of got in the guy's face, and you're like, "Carson?" then just backed off. That was the most emotion I've ever seen out of him, but you know it's there. It's his presence.

[walshfan]

Three things are needed to have a winning team.

Good Oline-- which we have

Good QB-----which we have

Good DLine--- which they better have next year or we'll be worse off

[NJ29]

The thing about it is, Chad is funny and he's a hell of a player, but he's not as likable as Carson. Carson never talks trash, always says the right things,

Hmmm.... My definition of a likeable player are different than yours.

The thing I don't like about Chad is that he runs his mouth DURING the week, and that just doesn't need to be done. Teams play best when they have something to be pissed off about. Chad doesn't need to fuel that. I can do without some of the goofy touchdown celebrations, but I want a player with some fire. The quarterback at my high school aint that great, but he's got the fire that rallies the team around him. I don't see that in Carson. I'm not saying that I want to see Carson turn into Joey Porter, or hell, Marcus Vick. But I would to see a little more.....moxy out the guy. That would make him much more likeable to me.

[wadehurst]

ill admit it... i turned on Extreme Home Makeover (or whatever) and cried.

[jrandom42]

The thing about it is, Chad is funny and he's a hell of a player, but he's not as likable as Carson. Carson never talks trash, always says the right things,

Hmmm.... My definition of a likeable player are different than yours.

The thing I don't like about Chad is that he runs his mouth DURING the week, and that just doesn't need to be done. Teams play best when they have something to be pissed off about. Chad doesn't need to fuel that. I can do without some of the goofy touchdown celebrations, but I want a player with some fire. The quarterback at my high school aint that great, but he's got the fire that rallies the team around him. I don't see that in Carson. I'm not saying that I want to see Carson turn into Joey Porter, or hell, Marcus Vick. But I would to see a little more.....moxy out the guy. That would make him much more likeable to me.

What is meaningful is, do you trust him with the ball in his hands, with 2 minutes on the clock, down by 6, and 75 yards to go? I don't need anyone screaming and jumping up and down at that time. I want someone I know is going to do his best to put the ball where it needs to go to win the game. So give me a guy who shuts up, makes the play and wins the game, and that guy for the Bengals is Carson Palmer. I don't give a damn about fire, I don't give a damn about 'moxie' because it's all bulls**t if you can't deliver. Take your screaming and jumping up and down and go be a cheerleader instead, and let the REAL players win the game!

[NJ29]

The thing about it is, Chad is funny and he's a hell of a player, but he's not as likable as Carson. Carson never talks trash, always says the right things,

Hmmm.... My definition of a likeable player are different than yours.

The thing I don't like about Chad is that he runs his mouth DURING the week, and that just doesn't need to be done. Teams play best when they have something to be pissed off about. Chad doesn't need to fuel that. I can do without some of the goofy touchdown celebrations, but I want a player with some fire. The quarterback at my high school aint that great, but he's got the fire that rallies the team around him. I don't see that in Carson. I'm not saying that I want to see Carson turn into Joey Porter, or hell, Marcus Vick. But I would to see a little more.....moxy out the guy. That would make him much more likeable to me.

What is meaningful is, do you trust him with the ball in his hands, with 2 minutes on the clock, down by 6, and 75 yards to go? I don't need anyone screaming and jumping up and down at that time. I want someone I know is going to do his best to put the ball where it needs to go to win the game. So give me a guy who shuts up, makes the play and wins the game, and that guy for the Bengals is Carson Palmer. I don't give a damn about fire, I don't give a damn about 'moxie' because it's all bulls**t if you can't deliver. Take your screaming and jumping up and down and go be a cheerleader instead, and let the REAL players win the game!

My talk of "moxie" is exactly what you are talking about - the guy who rallies the team around him, wants the ball when the games on the line and gets it done. I'm not talking about celebrating and raving on and on after every play - I'm talking about a guy who gets his team to want it more than the other team. In my experience, pure adrenaline gets it done more than a calming influence does.

[Stripes]

My talk of "moxie" is exactly what you are talking about - the guy who rallies the team around him, wants the ball when the games on the line and gets it done. I'm not talking about celebrating and raving on and on after every play - I'm talking about a guy who gets his team to want it more than the other team. In my experience, pure adrenaline gets it done more than a calming influence does.

How about both?

You could have a calm, collected, and very talented player like Peyton Manning flop in the clutch.

You could have an energetic leader like Donovan McNabb flop in the clutch.

Or you could have the quiet yet hungry competitor like Tom Brady win everything.

[NJ29]

My talk of "moxie" is exactly what you are talking about - the guy who rallies the team around him, wants the ball when the games on the line and gets it done. I'm not talking about celebrating and raving on and on after every play - I'm talking about a guy who gets his team to want it more than the other team. In my experience, pure adrenaline gets it done more than a calming influence does.

How about both?

You could have a calm, collected, and very talented player like Peyton Manning flop in the clutch.

You could have an energetic leader like Donovan McNabb flop in the clutch.

Or you could have the quiet yet hungry competitor like Tom Brady win everything.

Sometimes you just have it - and I'm starting to see it from Carson. A lot of times, a new year comes around, and the guy who has been hiding that leadership capability inside for so long decides that it is his time. It's his time to carry his team on his shoulders and get it done. I why not be suprised in the least if Carson does in the next few years. He's got it - whatever it is, I just hope we see some more in the upcoming years.

[HairOnFire]

Young quarterbacks rarely show moxie. They correctly assume that they haven't earned the right so most are content with doing their jobs and earning respect. Demonstrative behavior comes later....if at all.

And for an example of this look no further than this years version of the previously mentioned Tom Brady. Much more vocal in the press and on the field, as well as far more examples of pumped fists and sideline scowls.

Bonus Opinion: In most games Byron Leftwich shows plenty of moxie and very little else.

[derekshank]

Pumping fists and jumping up and down is a personality thing... and there have been plenty of great QB's that didn't do that. Joe Montana's greatest strength was that he was always the same. Ice water ran through his veins. He didn't freeze up in the last two minutes of the game (i.e. the Bengal's superbowl game) and he didn't play too loose at other times in the game. He always had the same demeanor, and that calmed everyone else in those situations... (pointing out John Candy in the stands during that famous drive at the end of the game)

Carson is very much the same. It has it's advantages and disadvantages. Late in games it is priceless. There is nothing more you can ask from a leader than to have a calming effect on the team when they get tense. The downside is that hes not the type of player that's going ot get others fired up... As long as we have Chad it's not a problem. We'll always need another player with Chad's type of swagger... but that's just proof that the person doesn't have to be the QB.

I think Palmer's demeanor is exactly the kind I want from a QB. Peyton Manning clearly excited and frustrated. I've never seen Palmer look either of these. When he throws a TD he points to the sky. Other than that, he always looks the same. Steady and even keeled is what you want from from a leader on the field. (And if you want evidence of his willingness to be this team's leader, read the ESPN magazine article written on him earlier this season)