DDN's Chick Ludwig Slams VonKneeCapper, Bengals response

[belmontbengal]

Lastly, all the posters that want Brat fired also would agree with Chick on the notion

of: Where was Rudy and C. Perry? Why didn't we smashmouth them after this play?

Wy didn't we at least attempt to smashmouth them after this play? Kitna throwing

40 times is the worst possible scenario for the Bengals in this game.

Quote for truth.

Rudi touched the ball all of FOUR times on a run play in the second half. Nice job on adapting to the situation, Bob. You didn't even TRY to run the ball. What a shock. Bleh, sour grapes I guess, but the guy is just WAY too pass-happy sometimes.

[Jet23]

I live in Dayton and read Chick's article first thing this morning.

My first impression is that Chick is entitled to his opinion on the

hit as to whether it was "dirty" or not. My question is: Why did it take him five days

to write in the DDN that it was dirty? Why did he not write that in

the Monday edition? I don't know. Maybe he watched the play with

some Bengal D-lineman and they all agreed the play could have been

avoided. Maybe it took him five days to develop the lemons to write this.

Either way, the timing of the article is interesting and I believe he is

entitled to print his opinion, that is what he is paid for after all.

However, asking how it is that Ben or Kimo was not injured by a Bengal

is over the edge in my opinion. I'd like to think the Bengals and Marvin are

too classy of an organization to respond to a questionable hit with another

questionable hit. Your play should speak for you. If your upset about the hit,

score a TD, run through a tackle, make sure you tackle etc... Kick their arse

on the scoreboard.

Lastly, all the posters that want Brat fired also would agree with Chick on the notion

of: Where was Rudy and C. Perry? Why didn't we smashmouth them after this play?

Wy didn't we at least attempt to smashmouth them after this play? Kitna throwing

40 times is the worst possible scenario for the Bengals in this game.

Thanks for letting me ramble and throw in my .02.

I don't know why it took him so long, but I have to admit, the more I see and think about the play the more I think it is at least shady. Instead of wrapping Carson's leg, what if he would have used that arm to break his fall, so as not to expose his entire big ass to Palmer's knee?

[ckj414]

I can understand the anger, but its not fair to run Kimo's name through the mud over this. As he was going down maybe he could have avoided Palmer's knee, but then what kind of football player would he be? Could anyone who has ever set foot on a football field seriously tell me that he shouldn't try to reach out and make whatever play he could on the ball carrier?

[Jet23]

I can understand the anger, but its not fair to run Kimo's name through the mud over this. As he was going down maybe he could have avoided Palmer's knee, but then what kind of football player would he be? Could anyone who has ever set foot on a football field seriously tell me that he shouldn't try to reach out and make whatever play he could on the ball carrier?

So, you're saying maybe he could have avoided Carson, but instead he chose to put 300 lbs on Carson's knee. What exactly did he think would happen? I know it is football and things happen quick, but I just don't feel right about giving him a totally free pass on this one. IMO he had time to do something other than what he did, which was to knock Palmer out of the game. I'm not saying it was the dirtiest play ever, but it was far from clean.

I'm just a little tired of people saying 'I know Kimo, Kimo wouldn't do it'. Maybe Kimo didn't do it on purpose, but it appears as if he could have prevented it had he cared to.

[Kirkendall]

I'm just a little tired of people saying 'I know Kimo, Kimo wouldn't do it'. Maybe Kimo didn't do it on purpose, but it appears as if he could have prevented it had he cared to.

Especially since his face was straight at Palmer's knees on the way down...............

[BengalByTheBay]

I know that there's a "take sides" element to this issue, but I have a hard time doing it. I do think the hit was a little dirty and I was shocked there was no flag. These bang-bang plays happen sometimes, though and sometimes they go with you and sometimes against you. To me, the penalty wouldn't have changed the most important thing which is that it happened. Same with any fine, suspension, whatever. Doesn't matter to me because KVO isn't my concern.

What does stick with me about this is that if this hit happened to P. Manning or T. Brady the league would've definitely taken action -- there would have been a flag and there would've been a fine. Does anybody seriously dispute that? Even though CP is clearly a high exposure player for the NFL now, doesn't it feel like there's still a different standard because he plays for the Bengals?

[ArmyBengal]

I haven't really made much of a comment, but figure now and here is as good a time as any. Pick a side ?? OK, put me square in the camp of the hit (regardless of intention) was BS. There should have, at least been a penalty on the play, just like the Odell hit. I have seen the play more than I care and there was no block "into" the quarterback. Go back watch it again if you must and you can clearly see him hit the ground, then go at his leg "BELOW THE KNEE". Was it in the heat of the play ?? I will give benefit of the doubt and say, yes, but that is VERY LITTLE benefit. No, I don't believe the Steelers are a "Dirty" team, but they have the lions share of F**KING A$$CLOWNS. This is MY take on the whole thing, but have moved on to accept it for what it is and am looking forward to seeing Carson come back strong and Marvin putting together another strong (Hopefully Defensive) draft. I don't hope to see any more injuries as retaliation for this one, as that sort of thing NEVER stops and is just plain stupid, but hope the Steelers get beat on mercilessly by the Colts. Hopefully a mindset will develop within the defensive unit and organization as a whole to be a little more agressive and they can compliment one of the most potent offenses in the league. Also put me in the camp of saying, we go deeper in the playoffs next year and the Superbowl the following year. Just my two cents. Thanks for your time...

WHODEY !!!

[Lip_Burger]

What does stick with me about this is that if this hit happened to P. Manning or T. Brady the league would've definitely taken action -- there would have been a flag and there would've been a fine. Does anybody seriously dispute that? Even though CP is clearly a high exposure player for the NFL now, doesn't it feel like there's still a different standard because he plays for the Bengals?

I would disagree with you. Palmer's been the feel-good story of the year, he's a "Golden Boy" and "media darling" if you will. He also seems to be a genuinely good guy who's young but mature. I think they league loves him. If this happened to Brady or Manning, it definitely would have been a higher profile incident, but I don't think action would have been taken.

One thing I will say is that the Bengals don't get the recoginition they deserve. But that comes with time and success. It's also been a LONG time since they've made a stink in the NFL, so I have to forgive most people if they don't seem to jump on the bandwagon right away.

[HairOnFire]

There's a huge, and I mean HUGE difference between physical styles of play and dirty styles of play. The Steelers are a physical team. They have a bully mentality, yes, but not a dirty one.

Nope, you're wrong. The issue isn't how physical your play might be, but how professional you are about knocking the other guy on his butt. Whip a man from whistle to whistle and your behavior will always remain above reproach. But that doesn't accurately describe the Steelers demeanor, does it?

Will anyone be surprised to see chippy play in the coming Colt/Steeler game? Probably not, right? Don't we all expect to see plenty of punk behavior...especially early? Hasn't official idiot Joey Porter already started things off?

I'm sure that Steeler fans will be quick to absolve their team of any blame by pointing out that both teams will be quilty of the chippy play, but that deliberately misses the point that it's out of character for teams like the Colts to act that way. But it's the norm with the Steelers. Endless examples of chippy play is one of the things that the Steelers do to promote their reputation as a bully. And quite frankly it's a tactic that works for them, and it's precisely why you'll never see Bill Cowher do ANYTHING to keep the unprofessional style of play in check.

Then again, why should Cowher demand more professional play from his team? Don't you think he knows that as long as his team continues to win that unthinking members of his fanbase will defend the unprofessional play as a sign of toughness....or as a justified reaction to the disrespect shown to a towel?

*

[BengalByTheBay]

What does stick with me about this is that if this hit happened to P. Manning or T. Brady the league would've definitely taken action -- there would have been a flag and there would've been a fine. Does anybody seriously dispute that? Even though CP is clearly a high exposure player for the NFL now, doesn't it feel like there's still a different standard because he plays for the Bengals?

I would disagree with you. Palmer's been the feel-good story of the year, he's a "Golden Boy" and "media darling" if you will. He also seems to be a genuinely good guy who's young but mature. I think they league loves him. If this happened to Brady or Manning, it definitely would have been a higher profile incident, but I don't think action would have been taken.

One thing I will say is that the Bengals don't get the recoginition they deserve. But that comes with time and success. It's also been a LONG time since they've made a stink in the NFL, so I have to forgive most people if they don't seem to jump on the bandwagon right away.

Disagree with my opinion all you want -- I think there would've been 3 yellow flags on the field if that hit gets laid on Manning. And I'm not talking about whether people are fans jumping on the bandwagon, I'm talking about differential treatment by officials because of the perceived value of individual players to the NFL. I should have included Vick to my list as well.

[bengalsfansince68]

I am absolutely dumbfounded that the NFL has created an excuse for what happened on this play. There clearly should have been a flag and a sizeable fine if not suspension.

I am also amazed at the number of our own fans who see this as a clean play.

I have watched this play on tape many times. Braham is in front of Kimo with his back turned, Steinbach is behind him and barely got a hand on him. Kimo split the two, lands on his knee and then lunged at Carson, wraps his arm around the lower portion of Carson's leg and crashed his shoulder into his knee. From the time that Kimo lands on his own knee, he certainly has a clear path to the QB.

None of us can determine what was in his mind when he did this but looking at the only evidence that we have, it certainly looks like he did it on purpose.

I think that everyone would like to believe that there are no players who would intentionally injure another player.

But, does anyone think that all of the Steeler player are unaware that their chances of winning go up dramatically if Carson goes out?

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I am absolutely dumbfounded that the NFL has created an excuse for what happened on this play. There clearly should have been a flag and a sizeable fine if not suspension.

I am also amazed at the number of our own fans who see this as a clean play.

I have watched this play on tape many times. Braham is in front of Kimo with his back turned, Steinbach is behind him and barely got a hand on him. Kimo split the two, lands on his knee and then lunged at Carson, wraps his arm around the lower portion of Carson's leg and crashed his shoulder into his knee. From the time that Kimo lands on his own knee, he certainly has a clear path to the QB.

None of us can determine what was in his mind when he did this but looking at the only evidence that we have, it certainly looks like he did it on purpose.

I think that everyone would like to believe that there are no players who would intentionally injure another player.

But, does anyone think that all of the Steeler player are unaware that their chances of winning go up dramatically if Carson goes out?

Guess we'll see if they take Manning out...

[CT Stiller]

Nope, you're wrong. The issue isn't how physical your play might be, but how professional you are about knocking the other guy on his butt. Whip a man from whistle to whistle and your behavior will always remain above reproach. But that doesn't accurately describe the Steelers demeanor, does it?

Will anyone be surprised to see chippy play in the coming Colt/Steeler game? Probably not, right? Don't we all expect to see plenty of punk behavior...especially early? Hasn't official idiot Joey Porter already started things off?

I'm sure that Steeler fans will be quick to absolve their team of any blame by pointing out that both teams will be quilty of the chippy play, but that deliberately misses the point that it's out of character for teams like the Colts to act that way. But it's the norm with the Steelers. Endless examples of chippy play is one of the things that the Steelers do to promote their reputation as a bully. And quite frankly it's a tactic that works for them, and it's precisely why you'll never see Bill Cowher do ANYTHING to keep the unprofessional style of play in check.

Then again, why should Cowher demand more professional play from his team? Don't you think he knows that as long as his team continues to win that unthinking members of his fanbase will defend the unprofessional play as a sign of toughness....or as a justified reaction to the disrespect shown to a towel?

*

$20 you don't even know what "chippy" means and you'll look it up. Just because Tom Jackson said they were "chippy" doesn't make it true. He lives in Cincinnati and was visibly displeased when the Bengals were eliminated. He went on and on about how excited everyone was in the city leading up to the game. Don't take his word for it.

What you refuse to see is that the Steelers ARE physical between the whistles. They get fired up for big games and I'm glad they do. This is a physical sport where there is a lot of hitting. Pushing and shoving after the whistles happens all the time. I watch other teams, I love football. I see it with each and every team out there. You act like the Steelers are a cancer that affects every team it plays. The Colts have been accused (by other teams, not the Steelers) of being dirty on defense. The D-line coach is said to preach hits on the QB's knees. It's well-documented and they've been accused by several people of playing like this. So you think it's out of character for them to play "dirty" like you believe the Steelers to be? Maybe you don't know football the way I thought you did.

I don't condone Porter's words, he's a loudmouth. But it's nothing but his opinion. Will it bite us on the ass? No, because it doesn't affect the game in the slightest. The way the two teams play on the field is the only thing that matters in the end. The Steelers played better last Sunday, that was the difference in the game.

If you want to believe the Steelers are a dirty team, be my guest. I don't see proof of it anywhere. Perhaps you see the Steelers' intensity as something that's lacking on your own team, and it bothers you, so you have to throw empty accusations at them.

Yes, Houshmandzahdeh's idiotic display was about a towel. That it. How about this: Joey Porter goes to PBS and spits on the Bengals logo after a Steelers win... Would you say he's trying to disrespect paint?

[Stripes]

Yes, Houshmandzahdeh's idiotic display was about a towel. That it. How about this: Joey Porter goes to PBS and spits on the Bengals logo after a Steelers win... Would you say he's trying to disrespect paint?

If that were to happen, then of course it would invoke the rage of this and other message boards... But those of us that question the importance of your towel wouldn't be involved in such.

[bengals4ever]

This is what we need, more media people finding the truth and getting fired up about it and speaking out. Good for Chuck.

Vimo will pay.

I'm sorry, but you guys are an embarassment to true Bengals fans. And football fans.

All I know, is that when the Bengals face the Steelers again, and someone doesn't leave on a cart, something is seriously wrong with this team. Because they KNOW it was intentional regardless of what thety say. A steeler must be sacrificed. Classless or not, I hate everything about sh*tsburgh, and personally wouldn't mind it.

Very mature. Even if it were a dirty hit, how is your response any different?

Maybe we are upset that a few days after opening the vault to sign our franchise QB he gets a cheap shot and is out for who knows how long. Maybe we are upset that the hit draws no penalty at all. Maybe us long time fans remember the past years and the hits on Anderson.

How long have you been a fan? It was a crappy hit and should have been penalized.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Nope, you're wrong. The issue isn't how physical your play might be, but how professional you are about knocking the other guy on his butt. Whip a man from whistle to whistle and your behavior will always remain above reproach. But that doesn't accurately describe the Steelers demeanor, does it?

Will anyone be surprised to see chippy play in the coming Colt/Steeler game? Probably not, right? Don't we all expect to see plenty of punk behavior...especially early? Hasn't official idiot Joey Porter already started things off?

I'm sure that Steeler fans will be quick to absolve their team of any blame by pointing out that both teams will be quilty of the chippy play, but that deliberately misses the point that it's out of character for teams like the Colts to act that way. But it's the norm with the Steelers. Endless examples of chippy play is one of the things that the Steelers do to promote their reputation as a bully. And quite frankly it's a tactic that works for them, and it's precisely why you'll never see Bill Cowher do ANYTHING to keep the unprofessional style of play in check.

Then again, why should Cowher demand more professional play from his team? Don't you think he knows that as long as his team continues to win that unthinking members of his fanbase will defend the unprofessional play as a sign of toughness....or as a justified reaction to the disrespect shown to a towel?

*

$20 you don't even know what "chippy" means and you'll look it up. Just because Tom Jackson said they were "chippy" doesn't make it true. He lives in Cincinnati and was visibly displeased when the Bengals were eliminated. He went on and on about how excited everyone was in the city leading up to the game. Don't take his word for it.

What you refuse to see is that the Steelers ARE physical between the whistles. They get fired up for big games and I'm glad they do. This is a physical sport where there is a lot of hitting. Pushing and shoving after the whistles happens all the time. I watch other teams, I love football. I see it with each and every team out there. You act like the Steelers are a cancer that affects every team it plays. The Colts have been accused (by other teams, not the Steelers) of being dirty on defense. The D-line coach is said to preach hits on the QB's knees. It's well-documented and they've been accused by several people of playing like this. So you think it's out of character for them to play "dirty" like you believe the Steelers to be? Maybe you don't know football the way I thought you did.

I don't condone Porter's words, he's a loudmouth. But it's nothing but his opinion. Will it bite us on the ass? No, because it doesn't affect the game in the slightest. The way the two teams play on the field is the only thing that matters in the end. The Steelers played better last Sunday, that was the difference in the game.

If you want to believe the Steelers are a dirty team, be my guest. I don't see proof of it anywhere. Perhaps you see the Steelers' intensity as something that's lacking on your own team, and it bothers you, so you have to throw empty accusations at them.

Yes, Houshmandzahdeh's idiotic display was about a towel. That it. How about this: Joey Porter goes to PBS and spits on the Bengals logo after a Steelers win... Would you say he's trying to disrespect paint?

Didja miss the beginning of the game when multiple Steelers were doing the cute thing where they stand over Housh while he's trying to get up and basically hump him? Don't know what you got on your team there. I've got a few words for it, and 'chippy' only starts to describe it.

Basically, the Steelers are constantly whining about something, and act like jackasses between plays. Which is basically expected.

[Reimersfan88]

We would have declined the penalty anyway.

[KMH14]

We would have declined the penalty anyway.

I believe it would have been a personal foul and the fifteen yards would have been

tacked onto the 66 yard gain.

[Stripes]

We would have declined the penalty anyway.

We'll there's an obvious fact I never considered! Nice.

I'm sure everyone will still complain about the principal of the thing... But it'd have made no impact on the game... Good point. Unless of course the yards would be tacked on... Law beat me to it!

[CT Stiller]

Yes, Houshmandzahdeh's idiotic display was about a towel. That it. How about this: Joey Porter goes to PBS and spits on the Bengals logo after a Steelers win... Would you say he's trying to disrespect paint?

If that were to happen, then of course it would invoke the rage of this and other message boards... But those of us that question the importance of your towel wouldn't be involved in such.

Well that's understandable. But I don't see how someone can question the importance of a team's symbol. That's like questioning the importance of a dog's bone to him. Or something.

[Stripes]

Well that's understandable. But I don't see how someone can question the importance of a team's symbol. That's like questioning the importance of a dog's bone to him. Or something.

The symbology is important, no doubt. Because of such, this entire discussion becomes two extremes of home bias, even if that is not intended. There can be no agreement.

[CT Stiller]

Didja miss the beginning of the game when multiple Steelers were doing the cute thing where they stand over Housh while he's trying to get up and basically hump him? Don't know what you got on your team there. I've got a few words for it, and 'chippy' only starts to describe it.

Wow, never seen anyone do that before. And you consider that dirty? I consider it a part of a heated rivarly. I consider it a way to bully an opponent. I don't consider it dirty.

[redsfan2]

Didja miss the beginning of the game when multiple Steelers were doing the cute thing where they stand over Housh while he's trying to get up and basically hump him? Don't know what you got on your team there. I've got a few words for it, and 'chippy' only starts to describe it.

Wow, never seen anyone do that before. And you consider that dirty? I consider it a part of a heated rivarly. I consider it a way to bully an opponent. I don't consider it dirty.

That can be explained by the fact that you are a stealer fan and have much lower standards as what constitutes dirty ..... or even chippy ( and yeah I know what it means without looking it up ).

I not only remember the hit on Anderson that Ludwig refers to, I also remember Curtis getting clotheslined .. while he wasn't looking of course .... and one of your jacks ( don't remember if it was lambert or ham ) looking down at an injured Max Montoya and saying " I hope you die " .... Yep direct quote.

Team has been just chock full of top of the line human beings for at least the last 20 some odd years, and in Kimo ... I guess the legacy lives on.

I wouldn't even mind the stealers being dirty, except they whine their asses off and demand fines and investigations every time the Raiders beat them at their own game. Remember Knoll pointing his finger and lecturing after a Raider win ?? Or can't you remember Knoll ?? You are right about the " bully " aspect of stealers play tho ..... they can dish it out ... but they can't take it.

Oh ... one last thing ... yeah Kimos hit on Palmer was a cheap ... intentional shot and Thurmans on the burgerking wasn't. Not because I'm a homer but because Thurmans momentum carried him into burger as he was falling after being intentionally tripped by your center * please note the absence of a knee grab as burger was able to spin away. Kimo was legally blocked and on the ground when he lunged at Palmers knee and wrapped his arm around the leg so that Palmer wouldn't be able to spin away from the hit.

* sorry that the trip on Thurman wasn't listed with all the other dirty plays from your team. It's kinda hard to keep all of them from running together. If you don't think it was intentional, watch the film and note how the center turns his head to look at Thurman before sticking out his leg to trip him.

Case closed and last hit on this particular dead horse.

[walshfan]

bickering back and forth with stool trolls doesnt accomplish a damn thing.

Ignore them completely... they dont deserve our attention at all...

Best way to settle any arguments is let the teams do it on the field.

[redsfan2]

bickering back and forth with stool trolls doesnt accomplish a damn thing.

Ignore them completely... they dont deserve our attention at all...

Best way to settle any arguments is let the teams do it on the field.

agree 100%

Still wanted to add my 2 cents tho