Defensive Tackles/Top 5 Draft Picks

[Dadraftnick]

As you know Shaun Smith has started the last couple of games since Bryan Robinson has been injured.

The run defense has played well in those games holding running teams like the Brownies and Stillers

to respectable numbers.

Even though Shaun Smith has been inactivated for a few games when given the chance Smith has played

well.

Both players have 18 total tackles but Smith has 12 solo tackles vs Robinson's 9 ,despite the fact that Robinson has started most of the year and got more playing time.

It is looking more and more that Shaun Smith will be the starter next year and Robinson will be on the bench or be sent packing.

Fanene has looked like a real stud on the few times he has played in the pre season and reg season.I think he

can play either DE or DT so he may take Carl Powell's spot.

Mathias Askew is like the punch line of a bad joke, he may have talent (although Ive never seen it) he is

always injured despite the fact he has only played a few plays.He must get hurt in practice and must not

be verry tough.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

First of all, how do you know anything about Askew on the field? We haven't seen enough to know if he is the next great DT. Yes, he's had his share of injuries, but then again, should we say Chris Perry doesn't have talent because he has too? Or perhaps we should say TJ has no talent since he missed a year and was also prone to mistakes early in his career? We won't know until we see him.

Secondly, you say Fanene can play DT. However, Marvin said he wasn't ready for that yet. I think he knows better than you.

[GROIIIDayton]

TNBT for your information Fanene played some DT and was very disruptive against the Steelers. Go back and look at the game. You think you own this damn board and that is BS. Lighten up a little bit. I mean it would be one thing if you knew what you were talking about, but honestly you don't have a clue.

[kingwilly]

I for one think Askew may possess great talent but is lacking in the "being a professional" dept. If he is also injury prone, be it related to him not taking care of himself or preparing correctly or whatever, it really does not matter. He either has the fire and desire or he does not.

To me, if he cannot get on the field in year two, with a depleted D line, then there is not much hope, talent/physical tools or not. Sounds like he should have stayed in school.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

I don't think we can pencil-in Smith as a starting DT next year yet by any means.

[Jet23]

Sink or swin, I wouldn't mind seeing Askew on the field just once.

[bengalboomer7]

I don't remember Fanene playing DT in the Steelers game and he only played in 5 snaps that game so that is no where near enough info. And marvin DID say he was not physically ready for DT

GROIII - quit being so confrontational

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

TNBT for your information Fanene played some DT and was very disruptive against the Steelers. Go back and look at the game. You think you own this damn board and that is BS. Lighten up a little bit. I mean it would be one thing if you knew what you were talking about, but honestly you don't have a clue.

Fanene lined up at end. Marvin was asked in an interview if Fanene could line up at tackle after the injury bug hit. He said he wasn't ready for DT yet.

I don't think I own this board, but if you can't take being told you are flat out wrong, that's not MY problem, it's yours.

[kentjett]

First of all you cannot compare the Askew situation to the Chris Perry situation. We've seen enough out of Perry to know that he isn't a bust and has the potential to be a great third down RB and maybe even a good starting RB. Whenever he is in, he takes advantage of his opportunities. Mathias hasn't shown us crap yet, we've heard about his potential but haven't witnessed sh** . He's almost done w/ his second year and he hasn't played in a handful of plays. Considering he only signed a three year deal, it's safe to say he hasn't panned out. He's been Marvin's worst draft pick, I'd agree w/ GROIII on this subject. It's all right not to know everything, keep that in mind.

[GROIIIDayton]

Go back watch the plays he is in on. He lines up outside on 3-4 plays, and lines up inside on two third downs one of which he got into the back field and made little ben move. I don't know what Marvin meant by that but he could have been talking about running downs did you ever think about that?

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

First of all you cannot compare the Askew situation to the Chris Perry situation. We've seen enough out of Perry to know that he isn't a bust and has the potential to be a great third down RB and maybe even a good starting RB. Whenever he is in, he takes advantage of his opportunities. Mathias hasn't shown us crap yet, we've heard about his potential but haven't witnessed sh** . He's almost done w/ his second year and he hasn't played in a handful of plays. Considering he only signed a three year deal, it's safe to say he hasn't panned out. He's been Marvin's worst draft pick, I'd agree w/ GROIII on this subject. It's all right not to know everything, keep that in mind.

However, remember this.... 2 years ago, people said TJ Houshmanzadeh was a bust and injury prone because he went on IR. Marvin said stuff it, and TJ came back a savior. Last year, Marvin drafted Chris Perry, everyone moaned and groaned it was a bad pick, then he got injured and everyone pulled out the bust word again. Marvin said stuff it, and this year, he's been great. For years, Rudi Johnson rode the pine behind Corey Dillon and we never saw him on the field. In his first two years, Rudi had all of 67 yards. Was he a bust? Mathias Askew hasn't shown us what he can do yet, and people are pulling out the bust word again. Marvin's worst pick? Wouldn't that be Dennis Weathersby who never even made it to the field because he had a freak occurance magnet implanted in his body? Anyway, it is too soon to call the man a bust.

[Jet23]

It's all right not to know everything, keep that in mind.

No, no, no, no, no! That's not the way it works. See, you say something that I don't agree with. Then I call you like an idiot or a moron, or something like that. THEN, we spend the next two hours arguing over who is stupider, or the most stupid, or dummer, or maybe dumber... See, that's how bulletin boards work....no wait, that's how the third grade works. Never mind!

[kingwilly]

Ok, RB and WR are a little different in that they are complex "skill positions". making the comparison to a young DT is not a good one. Keeping in mind Rudi's pre-season perfomrances where he showed starter ability, I'd say he was easy to estimate. As for TJ, he had a few other players in front of him (Warrick, Westbrook, Dugans) and he was hurt.

But at no time did the reason they were not on the field include an "immaturity" problem. It was either they had better players ahead of them or, in TJ's case, was hurt.

2 years of an immaturity issue, no prodcutivity, no playing time, minor injuries.....sounds like a bust to me.

Maybe this a ne last remnant of the "old" bengals coming through...not axe-ing players who can't carry thier share. They do it when the $$$ don't add up (Hardy, Warrick, Tony Williams) but here you have a guy who can't even find playing time on the depleted line for a poorly ranked D...Askew is spelled B-U-S-T.

The worst draft pick from the ML era.

[alleycat]

A little perspective:

Askew was a fourth round pick, and a bit of an acknowledged project when that happened. Even if we call him a bust, not a bad reach given his performance at MSU and a belief that he would continue to develop.

This would have been his rookie year had he stayed in school. Lewis' comment that he's still growing into his own body would suggest that he might be dealing with more substantial physical issues than some other players. Only Geathers, ODell, and Chris Henry are younger on the team in terms of actual age. I just have a feeling that next year we might be a little suprised that suddenly, with the likes of S. Smith, Askew, and Fanane that we find ourselves thrilled with our D-line.

I'm frankly a bit more concerned about our D-Line coach than anything.

[Whur CHad At?]

hey respect TNBT, he is smart and he knows what he is talking about...i mean that. He might make you mad, and he has made me mad, but he always spits the truth.

BACK TO THE SUBJECT AT HAND:

Anyway i think we should cut all of our Dtackles and rebuild. But that wouldnt really work out right now....

[Spain]

Askew sucks his thumd! Askew sucks his thumb!

[schweinhart]

A little perspective:

Askew was a fourth round pick, and a bit of an acknowledged project when that happened. Even if we call him a bust, not a bad reach given his performance at MSU and a belief that he would continue to develop.

This would have been his rookie year had he stayed in school. Lewis' comment that he's still growing into his own body would suggest that he might be dealing with more substantial physical issues than some other players. Only Geathers, ODell, and Chris Henry are younger on the team in terms of actual age. I just have a feeling that next year we might be a little suprised that suddenly, with the likes of S. Smith, Askew, and Fanane that we find ourselves thrilled with our D-line.

I'm frankly a bit more concerned about our D-Line coach than anything.

They would have to gauge their evaluation of Askew's future against the roster spot he takes up. So far, he's still there and that speaks volumes.

The D-line has stunted a fraction this year of what it did the last 2 years under Frazier. The DT/DE tweener that adds quickness to stunts at DT usually sacrifices power and is less needed the more the team relies on a straight forward 4-man rush by the D-line. We'll see, but if they stay true to that approach I'd rather see another DT the size of Shaun Smith to go with Thornton and B-Rob or the upgrades that might take their place. Maybe Askew is one of those upgrades but it sure would be nice to know before free agency and the draft hits. I seriously doubt Fanene can handle the physical rigors on the inside in a 4-3 for any extended period of time, but he looks like he should be a keeper over Big Duane or Carl Plowed at DE and situational DT or 3-4 DE.

As for Jay Hayes...it was interesting to watch Marvin questioning him on the Game of the Week show about the gap alignment B-Rob was taking after they showed how a run play went against the Bengals in part because B-Rob was lined up out of position. Hayes acted like he didn't believe it was a problem and sounded like he was starting to make a case that Marvin was wrong. Just a snippet and maybe not indicative of much. But Hayes may be better suited for a return to coaching special teams somewhere else. Since he's still here -- like Askew -- Marvin must have his reasons for keeping him this far.

[Kazkal]

A little perspective:

Askew was a fourth round pick, and a bit of an acknowledged project when that happened. Even if we call him a bust, not a bad reach given his performance at MSU and a belief that he would continue to develop.

This would have been his rookie year had he stayed in school. Lewis' comment that he's still growing into his own body would suggest that he might be dealing with more substantial physical issues than some other players. Only Geathers, ODell, and Chris Henry are younger on the team in terms of actual age. I just have a feeling that next year we might be a little suprised that suddenly, with the likes of S. Smith, Askew, and Fanane that we find ourselves thrilled with our D-line.

I'm frankly a bit more concerned about our D-Line coach than anything.

They would have to gauge their evaluation of Askew's future against the roster spot he takes up. So far, he's still there and that speaks volumes.

The D-line has stunted a fraction this year of what it did the last 2 years under Frazier. The DT/DE tweener that adds quickness to stunts at DT usually sacrifices power and is less needed the more the team relies on a straight forward 4-man rush by the D-line. We'll see, but if they stay true to that approach I'd rather see another DT the size of Shaun Smith to go with Thornton and B-Rob or the upgrades that might take their place. Maybe Askew is one of those upgrades but it sure would be nice to know before free agency and the draft hits. I seriously doubt Fanene can handle the physical rigors on the inside in a 4-3 for any extended period of time, but he looks like he should be a keeper over Big Duane or Carl Plowed at DE and situational DT or 3-4 DE.

As for Jay Hayes...it was interesting to watch Marvin questioning him on the Game of the Week show about the gap alignment B-Rob was taking after they showed how a run play went against the Bengals in part because B-Rob was lined up out of position. Hayes acted like he didn't believe it was a problem and sounded like he was starting to make a case that Marvin was wrong. Just a snippet and maybe not indicative of much. But Hayes may be better suited for a return to coaching special teams somewhere else. Since he's still here -- like Askew -- Marvin must have his reasons for keeping him this far.

Probbley waiting for season to end to axe the Dline coach =P askew he probbley sees something in if he's kept him this whole time where he gave warrick the axe.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

I guess Stacy Andrews, our other project, is a bust too since he doesn't see the field as much as Scott Kooistra.

Oh, and as for WRs and RBs being "skill" positions and taking more time to develop than a DT, YOU ARE SO WRONG IT ISN"T FUNNY!

The wideouts generally take a year to hit their peak, true. However, the first postion to be able to step right in as a rookie and do well is RUNNING BACK. Rookie running backs have fresh legs, and if they have the athletic ability, it's not that hard to say here rook, he's the rock, run with it. Thus all the great rookie running backs.

On the other hand, DTs taken in the first round may be great coming out of the blocks, but in most cases, they need time to build NFL strength, learn NFL technique, and develop into really strong defensive linemen.

[bengalindian]

Gosssssssh. TNBT, you are such a bad guy. I think that we all know that Marvin isn't the guy for rash, electric changes. Thus, I think we'll see either JT or Brob, or both back next year, and hopefully, the DTs the Bengals need will come through the draft, and will last for years. TNBT, seriously, I hate you.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Gosssssssh. TNBT, you are such a bad guy. I think that we all know that Marvin isn't the guy for rash, electric changes. Thus, I think we'll see either JT or Brob, or both back next year, and hopefully, the DTs the Bengals need will come through the draft, and will last for years. TNBT, seriously, I hate you.

If you hate me because you disagree with me, seek counseling.

[bengalindian]

I was joking.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

I was joking.

Oh, you thought that was directed at YOU?!

[DontPushMe]

Marvin's worst pick? Wouldn't that be Dennis Weathersby who never even made it to the field because he had a freak occurance magnet implanted in his body?

The thing with Weathersby is like you said, it was a freak accident. Getting in a career ending car accident isnt something that ML could of scouted and predicted, therefore you really cant say it was a bad pick on lewis/brown's part. Askew's failures are mostly things that could of been scouted. With that said I think its kinda silly to go so far in dissing a 4th round pick. Sometimes they work, sometimes they dont, and we knew going in that Askew was a project.

Its still a bit early to be judging Marvin's drafts, but if I had to pick his worst pick, imo it is Caleb Miller. When you draft a guy midway through the 3rd round the plan is for him not to be at the bottom of the depth chart in his 2nd season. Not only that but hes looked very bad imo when he has been out there.

[Stripes]

I think Shaun Smith has done enough to deserve more playing time, but when Robinson is healthy, I hope Thornton is replaced instead.