Run Defense

[HairOnFire]

Just heard on Sportscenter that penalties have been up every year since 2001. The current average is 16 per game...up two per game from last season.

[The Big Orange]

Pollack...five more games of this crap and the word "Bust" will start flying around.

Simmons looked absolutely lost out there and didn't seem to have a clue about overpursuing

Landon Johnson looks like a backup more and more every game

Odell has overpursued so much in the first 5 games that teams are going to start...let me correct that...already have started scheming for that

I don't think Webster, Caleb Miller, and Wilkins could have played much worse than that...they were embaressing.

Oh yeah, Deltha has been playing great...yesterday he just got played...Tory got spanked on the straight arm TD...Deltha got jumped...they were abused so badly they'll need a weekend of dates at Rikers just to get to feeling better

Don't get me wrong I love our guys...the sky hasn't fallen...we will win a bunch more games and go to the playoffs and may win our division...but yesterday we were bad...not old Bengals bad...new Bengals bad...young and undisciplined...not slow, old, and untalented

I just needed to vent...I feel better

[bengalsLB]

anyone else want the bengals to replace simmons this off-season

[Stripes]

anyone else want the bengals to replace simmons this off-season

Bobby Carpenter baybay!

I think Simmons will be fine though.

[bengalsLB]

hell yeah carpenter 6-2 255LB who runs a 4.55... the dude is Huge.

pollack sam, odell mike , carpenter will and simmons traded to the saints for a 3 rounder which turns out to be greg blue hell draft jesse maholna in the 2 round and we got a top 10 D and a top 5 O damn i can smell a superbowl

[derekshank]

Yo guys... Don't get my hopes up with this Carpenter talk. I'll get all excited, and then Marvin will draft where the need is... safety or DT.

Anyway... the run defense had one bad game. Previous to this the YPC stat was abused, because people who watched the game on the NFL stat tracker rather than on the field got fooled. A few big plays can make an otherwise good defense look bad on paper. Up until facing Taylor, our run defense has been solid. Not great, but good enough.

Taylor exposed some poor tackling, and took our safeties out of their normal game, because they were having to make too many tackles (Thurman played like a rookies, and will get his butt chewed by Bres after this game).

Anyway... stop talking bad about our secondary. You're pissing me off. Our CB's played well yesterday, and are the reason we didn't get beat badly. Everyone gives up a few plays, especially you've got 8 in the box. The plays the Jacksonville made were usually because of great plays by their wide receivers, not poor play by our CB's. Tory got man handled on the one TD, and Oneil made a piss poor attempt on the other tackle, and got hurdled. Other than that... they did their jobs. Let's not act like we suck. Our defense played fairly poorly... but not awful. Marvin even said they played well... so let's start forgetting about one loss, and focusing on the next 4 straight victories.

[Kazkal]

Aye the run defense is killing us we need williams back o_O and david to hurry up and catch up so he can start

[Columbusbengal]

Yo guys... Don't get my hopes up with this Carpenter talk. I'll get all excited, and then Marvin will draft where the need is... safety or DT.

Actually, there's no point in getting excited about Carpenter even if Marvin wants him in the worst way. He will not be available when the Bengals draft

[Stripes]

Yo guys... Don't get my hopes up with this Carpenter talk. I'll get all excited, and then Marvin will draft where the need is... safety or DT.

Actually, there's no point in getting excited about Carpenter even if Marvin wants him in the worst way. He will not be available when the Bengals draft

I'm certain Hawk will be long gone, but Carpenter could end up a lower first, upper second rounder. If there are no safeties or defensive tackles worth taking at that spot, then Carpenter would be a fine possibility...but this is for the draft forum I suppose.

[WhoDeyHomer]

I think we saw how much we miss Madieu. I swear they showed a jaguar highlight reel before a commmercial and on each of the 5 or so plays I saw KK running backwards, he is TERRIBLE, the one thing he can do is make sure that noone is behind him, but every time he has to take an angle he is way off, Ohalete sure didnt help the cause either. Im sure marvin is salivating over Blue from Georgia.... or anyone who can actually play beside M. Williams.

Also there was a play near the end of the game when KK was literally dragged 10 yards for a first down...embarassing.

[Stripes]

I think we saw how much we miss Madieu. I swear they showed a jaguar highlight reel before a commmercial and on each of the 5 or so plays I saw KK running backwards, he is TERRIBLE, the one thing he can do is make sure that noone is behind him, but every time he has to take an angle he is way off, Ohalete sure didnt help the cause either. Im sure marvin is salivating over Blue from Georgia.... or anyone who can actually play beside M. Williams.

Also there was a play near the end of the game when KK was literally dragged 10 yards for a first down...embarassing.

Madieu will be back when we play the Steelers for sure. I think we can truly see what he means to the run defense then. Still, if we are so reliant on a free safety to have even marginal success stopping the run, then we are in very bad shape. The problem is overpursuit by all the linebackers, and I'm not sure how much help Madieu will be in masking that problem.

[jamesbrooks21]

Ah, good to see that there is finally some talk of the run defense as a weakness....I've been pointing this out for weeks and been dismissed....

Yeah I have too. It's not hard to hold people under 100 yards rushing when they fall behind so early and by so much. It was a game like this I wanted to see. I definitely worried but from what I have seen it is correctable. To the D's credit they stepped up at times and only allowed field goals when the Jags were starting in our territory. BUT we will be seeing ourselves on the losing end of many close games if this doesn't get fixed.

[Whur CHad At?]

The Bengals need to do this off-season is:

Cut: Simmons, Thorton, and Herring for sure.

Simmons- Is the worst LB in the league. All you who say he is not bad are retarded and stupid. Simple as that.

Thorton- The worst DT in the league and very much over paid. I remember when the Bengals were pursuing Corey Simon and Thorton was like, " We don't need him. We are better off without the guy." Thorton just said that because if we signed Simon, he was history. Look how good Indy's defense is due to the addition of Simon. We made a huge mistake and not coughing up money to get this guy. A lot of you disagree but I don't care.

Herring- Peace. Plain and Simple.

Bengals predicted record 6-10 Run defense will destroy us.

Bengals should draft DT in first round. That is our HUGE need right now.

[Stripes]

The Bengals need to do this off-season is:

Cut: Simmons, Thorton, and Herring for sure.

Simmons- Is the worst LB in the league. All you who say he is not bad are retarded and stupid. Simple as that.

Thorton- The worst DT in the league and very much over paid. I remember when the Bengals were pursuing Corey Simon and Thorton was like, " We don't need him. We are better off without the guy." Thorton just said that because if we signed Simon, he was history. Look how good Indy's defense is due to the addition of Simon. We made a huge mistake and not coughing up money to get this guy. A lot of you disagree but I don't care.

Herring- Peace. Plain and Simple.

Bengals predicted record 6-10 Run defense will destroy us.

Bengals should draft DT in first round. That is our HUGE need right now.

Has Bax number two decided to show himself? 6-10?!?!?! We'd have to go 2-9 for the rest of the schedule. Yes, the run defense has and will struggle. That is only one facet of the game. We do just about EVERYTHING else well. Do you really believe a team with Carson Palmer, Chad Johnson, and Marvin Lewis at the helm is even CAPABLE of such an abysmal season, especially when our current record is 4-1?

AUGH!

[Whur CHad At?]

Vs. Jacksonville- Carson looked alright, Rudi nothing special, and Chad wasnt able to do anything. WE CAN be shut down. Just because we have those three guys doesnt make us unstopable, as proven on Sunday vs. Jacksonville. Besides those 4 wins came from jokes of opponents. Defense wins games, and we dont have a very good defense. Even if we make the playoffs, we will be embarrassed in the first round.

[kingwilly]

You think that we played patty cake opponents? We did not just beat our first 4, we ruined them.

Having Madieu back addresses the secondary. Shoring up the run D means that Mr. 1st Round needs to show up and put on a pass rush. Hurry the QB and get turnovers. Once that happens, running won't happen. Leftwich cannot carry that team.

Having TJ in there, along with henry continuing to shine takes pressure of Chad. They can't cover everyone, as evidenced by Henry getting one-on-one on the second last drive. 3 plays-TD.

Whur your brain at?

[Whur CHad At?]

My Brain is in my head.

[HoosierCat]

Bengals had containment problems on the outside vs. Houston...and clearly Jax saw the film. I wasn't impressed by the D all night. Overpursuit by the backers gave Fred acres of green to run in. Secondary would have been burned worse by Leftwich but for a coule drops and bad passes. Byron faced little pressure all night. The D was never really able to take charge; they spent the whole game reacting to Jax and seemed one step behind on most plays. Throw in a couple of dumb penalties that handed Jax first downs and you have what was clearly their worst outing all season.

That said...the offense had a chance to bring us back and at leat get us into OT at the end, despite the fact that Jax's secondary covered well and Carson was under heavy pressure constantly. The running game seemed to be working pretty well, but it didn't seem to me that Brat stuck with it enough. Oh well, hopefully they will learn from al this.

[Stripes]

The running game seemed to be working pretty well, but it didn't seem to me that Brat stuck with it enough. Oh well, hopefully they will learn from al this.

In recent seasons, this and run defense seem to be reoccurring themes in our losses. Brat was too quick to abandon the run, as Rudi only got 5 carries in the entire second half. Granted, Palmer has proven he can still be effective without his running game playing well, but still, it woulds have been helpful to wear their defense down. They kept shuffling their defensive line all night long and when we stopped running, aside from a few draws with Perry, they were always fresh.

If you can consistently run the ball and stop the run, then you'll win games. That sounds exactly like Pittsburgh and what Baltimore has been the last few years. Add Palmer and an explosive offense to the mix, and you can't lose. Unless you beat yourself.

[schweinhart]

Bengals had containment problems on the outside vs. Houston...and clearly Jax saw the film. I wasn't impressed by the D all night. Overpursuit by the backers gave Fred acres of green to run in.

Tennesse will see the same thing. Chris Brown can make the cutback quicker outside when contain is blown plus turn upfield faster for bigger chunks of yardage than what Taylor did when the LBs overpursue themselves out of the play. If the Bengals DEs can keep further outside and force the play to stretch, their chances of not getting gashed outside increase.

There will also be things about the Bengals offense that should be farily obvious on tape. Namely, the difference in separation between Housh and Walter in the slot and the questionable ability of Chris Perry to pick up the blitz. I would expect a lot more nickel man off the slot to keep the help on Chad. Also, much more blitzing -- including zone blitzing -- to force Perry to stay in backfield in passing situations and make Palmer read twice as quick for check downs.

[HoosierCat]

If the Bengals DEs can keep further outside and force the play to stretch, their chances of not getting gashed outside increase.

True. OTOH, I'm not convinced that the d-line can hold its own in the middle if the LBs commit to the outside.

There will also be things about the Bengals offense that should be farily obvious on tape. Namely, the difference in separation between Housh and Walter in the slot and the questionable ability of Chris Perry to pick up the blitz. I would expect a lot more nickel man off the slot to keep the help on Chad. Also, much more blitzing -- including zone blitzing -- to force Perry to stay in backfield in passing situations and make Palmer read twice as quick for check downs.

How about Rudi in the backfield and Chris Perry in the slot...assuming of course that TJ is still out...haven't seen any word on him but I'm behind on my reading.

[duus]

If you can consistently run the ball and stop the run, then you'll win games. That sounds exactly like Pittsburgh and what Baltimore has been the last few years. Add Palmer and an explosive offense to the mix, and you can't lose. Unless you beat yourself.

You'll win GAMES, but not the BIG GAMES. Obviously Baltimore was able to win the big game once, but look where these 'consistently run the ball and stop the run' teams get, year over year. They get great records ... they get a lead, and then control the clock and win many close games. I think the formula that the Patriots (duh) put out there is the right one. Sometimes you setup the pass by establishing the run, but other times you do the opposite ... depends upon the opponent and the game situation. The Pats do this better than any other. I think the Bengals have the potential to meet this method on offense, and I like what I see from them in terms of doing things similar to the Pats (i.e. not afraid to adapt to the game and establish whichever makes the most sense). Ultimately, though, you still have to 'disallow' the opponent to go on these 7 minute drives. Stop the run! The Ravens and Steelers have traditionally done that, and they are able to get their defense off the field. The Pats have done that too. But the Pats, as I say, mix it up on offense, and that's what separates them from these other guys.

We just need to learn to stop the run and get off the field (3 and out, or turnovers), and then I think we'll be just fine. Getting closer ... ever so close ...

[jditty47]

chris brown is no where near where he was last year and their line isnt as good as last year. if williams is back, we wont have a problem with CB hitting 100 yds.

[Stripes]

chris brown is no where near where he was last year and their line isnt as good as last year. if williams is back, we wont have a problem with CB hitting 100 yds.

I wouldn't be so sure. Chris Brown is still averaging 4.1 yards per carry on the season, despite a depleted offensive line, and a schedule that has included Pittsburgh, Baltimore, and Indianapolis. He is fast considering his upright running style. A lot of people have compared him to Eric Dickerson, and I've seen nothing so far this year to suggest that he is behind where he should be.

Madieu will certainly help, but still... If our linebackers continue to overpursue as badly as they did against Jacksonville, then a 100 yard day for Brown is almost a given. Madieu will be able to make the open field tackles we were missing last week that led to Taylor's 5.7 yards per carry average. If we cannot stop the run, or cannot jump out to a big lead, then the Titans may be able to control the clock rather easily. I do not expect this to be a big problem, but it might be.

[odellthurmanfan]

I think Marvin will be able to correct the cut-back problems we had against Taylor, and Brown will rush for anywhere from 20-60 yards. Hopefully our secondary can take the deep ball away, cause Bennett is a good deep threat. Some people were kind of hating on Odell, which I think is kind of silly. He's had a HELL of a season so far for being a ROOKIE middle linebacker on a defense that isn't exactly outstanding. I think he's done fine, and will only get better. Hopefully Pollack will find a way permanently into the lineup at either DE or OLB. Simmons looked horrid Sunday, absolutely ridiculous. Hopefully he shows up this Sunday!!