HOW SMART WAS IT ?

[Dadraftnick]

What kind of pick was it?  GENIUS.  Look, Henry was the most talented player overall available at the time.  Other teams he passed him over because of issues that didn't stem from his ABILITY but from his ATTITUDE.  Marvin and Mike decided to take a guy who's talent was 1st round grade, and see if they could work him into the NFL. 

Yes, we had talent at WR.  We also had BIG questions.  #1  Is Pdub done?  (Answer:  YES).  #2 Is TJ for real?  (Answer:  YES).  #3 Will CJ end up holding out on us? (Answer: We dont know, but if he does, we need someone to fill in with his kind of talent). 

ANSWER:  Draft this young kid and ask Chad to pony up and show the maturity of a veteran and mentor him.  You get two things from this, #1 You get a great talent to coach up and Hue certainly has the ability to do it.  #2 You get Chad showing more maturity and having a reason not to hold out too.

So ,your answer is that it is more important to have the most talented bench or inactive players than it is to have quality starters at every position. I think there were 3 S's that were taken in the 3 rd and 4 th that will start .Likewise at other positions that would have either started or been first off the bench for the Bengals.

If the Bengals need a WR next year they can always sign or draft one next year.The easiest thing to find in end of year cuts or free agency is WR and LB.D-line ,pass rushers,and starting QB's are always the most hardest to find and most expensive.If the Bengals would have just drafted some of the great DT and DE's that they have passed on in the middle rounds they would not be getting laughed at for not signing the many free agents.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

Everybody keeps missing the point.I dont care if Henry will be good SOMEDAY or not .I think he will.The point is in the draft in the first 4 rounds you need to draft guys that are starters.It makes more sense to take a starting S (which there were starting caliber safeties in the 3rd)when there is a BIG whole at that position,than is does to take a guy that will not even be activated most of the year, and even if he is how many plays is he going to be in on?If they had taken a S they would have had an every down player.As far as the best player avaliable theory goes,give me a break.You mean if you have Joe Montana,Steve Young,and John Elway and you have a chance to take Brett Farvre or Aaron Shoebel and your starting DE is Vaughn Booker that you would take Farvre ??And with Farvre you have a guy you will have to inactivate versus a guy that comes in starts,plays most of the plays,upgrades you at that position.You draft the best player available only when you have quality starters at every position and have no major needs.

If you are depending on getting 4 starters each year in the draft, YOUR TEAM SUCKS! Sorry, but your veterans should be able to beat out a 3rd round pick, yet alone a 4th round pick.

There wasn't a safety worth drafting at his point. Any safety they would have THROWN AWAY A PICK ON wouldn't have beaten out Herring OR KK. The draft wasn't there. If you have a young special quarterback, you are talking about the ONLY position where depth is less important because you are only playing one at a time. Every other position multiple people play each week. There weren't any players at positions of "need" as defined by YOU the fan of the same caliber and potential as Henry at WR. We needed another quality WR and he was there as a value pick. We took him. Get over it, get behind him, or get run over by the bandwagon that is following us real fans.

[Stripes]

What kind of pick was it?  GENIUS.  Look, Henry was the most talented player overall available at the time.  Other teams he passed him over because of issues that didn't stem from his ABILITY but from his ATTITUDE.  Marvin and Mike decided to take a guy who's talent was 1st round grade, and see if they could work him into the NFL. 

Yes, we had talent at WR.  We also had BIG questions.  #1  Is Pdub done?  (Answer:  YES).  #2 Is TJ for real?  (Answer:  YES).  #3 Will CJ end up holding out on us? (Answer: We dont know, but if he does, we need someone to fill in with his kind of talent). 

ANSWER:  Draft this young kid and ask Chad to pony up and show the maturity of a veteran and mentor him.  You get two things from this, #1 You get a great talent to coach up and Hue certainly has the ability to do it.  #2 You get Chad showing more maturity and having a reason not to hold out too.

So ,your answer is that it is more important to have the most talented bench or inactive players than it is to have quality starters at every position. I think there were 3 S's that were taken in the 3 rd and 4 th that will start .Likewise at other positions that would have either started or been first off the bench for the Bengals.

If the Bengals need a WR next year they can always sign or draft one next year.The easiest thing to find in end of year cuts or free agency is WR and LB.D-line ,pass rushers,and starting QB's are always the most hardest to find and most expensive.If the Bengals would have just drafted some of the great DT and DE's that they have passed on in the middle rounds they would not be getting laughed at for not signing the many free agents.

Any safety we'd have drafted in the 3rd or 4th round would NOT have started on opening day of their rookie year, not in front of Herring. (how could anyone predict his injury on draft day?)

While safety was more of a pressing need, Henry was the BEST player available, and had been such long before he was picked. We planned all along to pick up a receiver, and he was the best value pick at that position in the entire draft (unless someone else steps up later).

Palmer needs all the weapons he can get, and Henry is an excellent player for him to throw the ball to. He was inactivated for week one, that is a fact. Chances are that any safety or defensive lineman we'd have drafted at the same spot would not play, and maybe not even make the team.

Who cares if anyone is laughing at the Bengals for their offseason. That has happened every year Marvin has been in power, and every year he has turned out stellar drafts.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

I think there were 3 S's that were taken in the 3 rd and 4 th that will start .

Likewise at other positions that would have either started or been first off the bench for the Bengals.

If the Bengals need a WR next year they can always sign or draft one next year.The easiest thing to find in end of year cuts or free agency is WR and LB.D-line ,pass rushers,and starting QB's are always the most hardest to find and most expensive.If the Bengals would have just drafted some of the great DT and DE's that  they have passed on in the middle rounds they would not be getting laughed at for not signing the many free agents.

3 safeties in round 3 or 4 that will start?

There was ONE safety in round 3, the 2nd pick (WAY ahead of us). He isn't starting, AND he is a FREE safety. I guess you wanted him to beat out Madieu AND KK at FREE safety.

In round 4, there were 5 FREE safeties taken, 1 is starting and was ABUSED this weekend. There were 2 STRONG safeties taken, and neither of them is starting.

In other words, yeah, we had a shot of getting one of THREE players at strong safety, none of which are starting at their position on any other team, and NONE of which would have beaten out Herring.

If the Bengals need a WR next year, they need to have drafted him LAST year. Sorry Charlie, but wake up and smell the development. It takes nearly all wideouts three years to produce in the NFL. There are rare high first round selections that produce in year one. It's VERY rare.

Good linebackers don't get cut. Good wide receivers are extremely expensive, ask TO, Randy Moss, hell, even Santana Moss cost a fortune.

The Bengals aren't getting laughed at for not signing free agents. They are being talked up because of the continuity of the offense and the improvements on defense from the last few drafts.

For someone who calls themself a draftnik, you certainly didn't pay very good attention to the draft, and you obviously don't have any idea of how fast to expect mid to late round picks to PRODUCE, yet alone start.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

FYI: There were 38 3rd round selections this year including compensatory picks. Of those 38, only 3 are starters (1 TE, 1 LB, and one Offensive Lineman). By the same token, 4 don't even show up on their teams depth charts, and 2 have been cut from the team entirely.

So, where is YOUR EVIDENCE that 3rd and 4th round picks are drafted to start immediately? I'd LOVE to see it.

[Stripes]

and 2 have been cut from the team entirely.

And one of them is still out of a job!

Maurice Clarett.

[Jonboat]

Henry was the BPA give him some time & I think he'll show he was worthy of being a 3rd pick. Marvin has proven to me to be a great judge of talent when it comes to drafts. I think they also wanted to bring in someone to push KW, which during the preseason he looked to be doing, KW looked like he stepped it up a bit & there's nothing wrong with having some depth @ that position. As for being laughed at from lack of FA, we signed all of our FA ,which I thought everyone said was a great move, if we get CJ redone along with a couple Olinemen we'll have this Off. for several years to come. Scary thought isn't it! We want to be superbowl contenders every year from here on out. We dont want to be one year wonders, the big name FA's will come when we start winning & 8-8 is not a winnning record !

[membengal]

FYI: There were 38 3rd round selections this year including compensatory picks. Of those 38, only 3 are starters (1 TE, 1 LB, and one Offensive Lineman). By the same token, 4 don't even show up on their teams depth charts, and 2 have been cut from the team entirely.

So, where is YOUR EVIDENCE that 3rd and 4th round picks are drafted to start immediately? I'd LOVE to see it.

Nice solid post Next. well done.

[BengalPappaw]

Everybody keeps missing the point.I dont care if Henry will be good SOMEDAY or not .I think he will.The point is in the draft in the first 4 rounds you need to draft guys that are starters.It makes more sense to take a starting S (which there were starting caliber safeties in the 3rd)when there is a BIG whole at that position,than is does to take a guy that will not even be activated most of the year, and even if he is how many plays is he going to be in on?If they had taken a S they would have had an every down player.As far as the best player avaliable theory goes,give me a break.You mean if you have Joe Montana,Steve Young,and John Elway and you have a chance to take Brett Farvre or Aaron Shoebel and your starting DE is Vaughn Booker that you would take Farvre ??And with Farvre you have a guy you will have to inactivate versus a guy that comes in starts,plays most of the plays,upgrades you at that position.You draft the best player available only when you have quality starters at every position and have no major needs.

What are you talking about?

Who in the third round would improve the Bengals team more than Henry?

Yeah -- a safety or DT. How many of those Safeties and DT are really contributing? I believe most are on the practice or developmental squads? No ALL-pros yet!

IMO in this draft there weren't any DT that where that much of an improvement for the Bengals.

YES, Thomas Davis might have been a help, but who else? Shazor? Yeah, right

Five years from now you might find someone who has come forward and would have been a good pick -- but as of NOW Henry is CLEARLY the best pick at that time.

Henry is a real talent at WR and once he learns the plays he will contribute more than some DT or SS that sits on the bench of even worse runs on the practice squad.

[Dadraftnick]

Everybody keeps missing the point.I dont care if Henry will be good SOMEDAY or not .I think he will.The point is in the draft in the first 4 rounds you need to draft guys that are starters.It makes more sense to take a starting S (which there were starting caliber safeties in the 3rd)when there is a BIG whole at that position,than is does to take a guy that will not even be activated most of the year, and even if he is how many plays is he going to be in on?If they had taken a S they would have had an every down player.As far as the best player avaliable theory goes,give me a break.You mean if you have Joe Montana,Steve Young,and John Elway and you have a chance to take Brett Farvre or Aaron Shoebel and your  starting DE is Vaughn Booker that you would take Farvre ??And with Farvre you have a guy you will have to inactivate versus a guy that comes in starts,plays most of the plays,upgrades you at that position.You draft the best player available only when you have quality starters at every position and have no major needs.

If you are depending on getting 4 starters each year in the draft, YOUR TEAM SUCKS! Sorry, but your veterans should be able to beat out a 3rd round pick, yet alone a 4th round pick.

There wasn't a safety worth drafting at his point. Any safety they would have THROWN AWAY A PICK ON wouldn't have beaten out Herring OR KK. The draft wasn't there. If you have a young special quarterback, you are talking about the ONLY position where depth is less important because you are only playing one at a time. Every other position multiple people play each week. There weren't any players at positions of "need" as defined by YOU the fan of the same caliber and potential as Henry at WR. We needed another quality WR and he was there as a value pick. We took him. Get over it, get behind him, or get run over by the bandwagon that is following us real fans.

First of all,you said that that if you are counting on the draft to give you 4 starters every year then your teams sucks,are you joking? Can you count? You need to TRY (atempt) to draft 4 starters in each draft.When you draft a player you have them for 4 years.There is 11 starters on offence and there is 11 on defence and you have a kicker punter and long snapper.Thats 25 Plus there are back ups at the starting positions you have to adress.At the rate of 4 per year that gives you 6 to 7 years just to turn over a team,if you hit on every guy which of course you cant.While you have vets re up that play longer than the 4 years that you get them for out of the draft. The more players you do that with the more money it takes to run your team.If you are NOT getting 4 starters every year in the draft then you are using cap space to sign players that should be being spent on free agents and your own vets.---If you think that a Safety in the 3rd would have been a wasted pick than a few other teams dissagree with you .Dustin Fox(Ohio State),OJ Atogwe,Sean Constidine(4 th rd) ,last I heard those guys are starting. You say that Henry was a value pick ,the whole point is you dont get value out of him if he is inactive and as I said if you activate him instead of Washington then you are wasting Washington.Face it ,the better thing to do would have been to get someone who could have started or at least contributed more when you are spending a 3rd round pick.

[derekshank]

Plenty of information has been given as to why Henry was a more valuable pick than any of the safeties that were available in the 3rd round. The guys that were available were not Strong Safeties, and the only FREE safety who STARTED did not play well.

If you don't like the Henry pick, that is your choice. It is clear that you are willing to make any argument necessary to speak against it... but there was not a valuable SS out there who would have started... and if you are relying on a 3rd round rookie SS to start for you in the NFL, then you are the Browns or 49ers.

We had Herring, and signed Ohalete. Neither of these guys are great... maybe even a step down from serviceable, but I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that they can outplay any 3rd or 4th round rookie. Henry will play this year. He will produce at least 3rd round quality WR numbers. Get off it.

[Stripes]

First of all,you said that that if you are counting on the draft to give you 4 starters every year then your teams sucks,are you joking? Can you count? You need to TRY (atempt) to draft 4 starters in each draft.When you draft a player you have them for 4 years.There is 11 starters on offence and there is 11 on defence and you have a kicker punter and long snapper.Thats 25 Plus there are back ups at the starting positions you have to adress.At the rate of 4 per year that gives you 6 to 7 years just to turn over a team,if you hit on every guy which of course you cant.While you have vets re up that play longer than the 4 years that you get them for out of the draft. The more players you do that with the more money it takes to run your team.If you are NOT getting 4 starters every year in the draft then you are using cap space to sign players that should be being spent on free agents and your own vets.---If you think that a Safety in the 3rd would have been a wasted pick than a few other teams dissagree with you .Dustin Fox(Ohio State),OJ Atogwe,Sean Constidine(4 th rd) ,last I heard those guys are starting. You say that Henry was a value pick ,the whole point is you dont get value out of him if he is inactive and as I said if you activate him instead of Washington then you are wasting Washington.Face it ,the better thing to do would have been to get someone who could have started or at least contributed more when you are spending a 3rd round pick.

First of all, you may want to try separating that post into paragraphs.

Your drafting strategy would likely lead a team into a decade or more of playoff-less misery. Wait.....

If there are no players available at a given postion (safety and defensive line) that do not project to have talent better than your current players at that position, you take the best available.

Calm down.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

If you think that a Safety in the 3rd would have been a wasted pick than a few other teams dissagree with you .Dustin Fox(Ohio State),OJ Atogwe,Sean Constidine(4 th rd) ,last I heard those guys are starting.

Oh, I wasn't aware that Dustin Fox, drafted by the Vikings was starting over a guy named Darren Sharper and a guy named Corey Chavous. In fact, if you did some research you would find (as I pointed out) that he doesn't even show up on their depth chart at all. That's right, he didn't even break 1st or 2nd backup at his position.

As pointed out regarding Otogwe, HE WAS PICKED 17 PICKS BEFORE WE WERE ON THE CLOCK YOU DUMB SON OF A RETARD! Oh, and he isn't a starter either. That's right, he's behind a guy named Michael Hawthorne at FREE SAFETY a position we have well covered.

Lets see, in the 4th round Considine (At LEAST TAKE THE TIME TO LOOK UP INFO DATA TO LEARN TO SPELL HIS NAME) is another BACKUP! That's right, he didn't get drafted and miraculously beat out Pro-Bowl strong safety Michael Lewis.

Before you try to argue your case some more, try doing some research, because frankly, for as far up your ass as your head is, you don't know s**t!

[andybren]

The timing of this thread is ridiculous. If this started because Henry didn't dress, then you need to take some Ridalin. I hear it's sold as a street drug these days.

Otherwise, this conversation needs to take place (a) in the time between the draft and training camp, ( 4-5 years from now when Henry's due for a new contract, or ( c) when the guy picked behind him has been designated God's gift to football.

That being said, I think the "draft 4 starters" tangent is getting distorted: some of you are implying 4 starters right away and others are implying 4 starters eventually. The former is insane. The latter takes time and cannot be evaluated after a SINGLE REGULAR SEASON GAME.

I'd also point out that there is no reason why you can't draft a starter in rounds 4-7. You might not expect to, but I guarantee that Marvin and Co. aren't going to use a third round pick on any player (no matter what position) that they think they can get in a later round. They wanted Henry and they thought they couldn't wait any longer to get him.

I'd probably have more to say but I'm having difficulty wading through the large blocks of text on my computer screen.

[bengalfreek]

What kind of pick was it?  GENIUS.  Look, Henry was the most talented player overall available at the time.  Other teams he passed him over because of issues that didn't stem from his ABILITY but from his ATTITUDE.  Marvin and Mike decided to take a guy who's talent was 1st round grade, and see if they could work him into the NFL. 

Yes, we had talent at WR.  We also had BIG questions.  #1  Is Pdub done?  (Answer:  YES).  #2 Is TJ for real?  (Answer:  YES).  #3 Will CJ end up holding out on us? (Answer: We dont know, but if he does, we need someone to fill in with his kind of talent). 

ANSWER:  Draft this young kid and ask Chad to pony up and show the maturity of a veteran and mentor him.  You get two things from this, #1 You get a great talent to coach up and Hue certainly has the ability to do it.  #2 You get Chad showing more maturity and having a reason not to hold out too.

So ,your answer is that it is more important to have the most talented bench or inactive players than it is to have quality starters at every position. I think there were 3 S's that were taken in the 3 rd and 4 th that will start .Likewise at other positions that would have either started or been first off the bench for the Bengals.

If the Bengals need a WR next year they can always sign or draft one next year.The easiest thing to find in end of year cuts or free agency is WR and LB.D-line ,pass rushers,and starting QB's are always the most hardest to find and most expensive.If the Bengals would have just drafted some of the great DT and DE's that they have passed on in the middle rounds they would not be getting laughed at for not signing the many free agents.

Between the Bengals picks in the third and fourth round, these were the safeties selected:

Sean Considine, Jaguars (2)

Vince Fuller, titans (2)

Marviel Underwood, Packers (3)

Jerome Carter (2)

Picks between Bengals picks in 4th and 5th rounds:

Kerry Rhodes, jets (2)

james Sanders, Pats (2)

Matt Giordano, Colts (2)

Donte Nicholson, Bucs (2)

The number in parentheses is where that player currently resides on his team's depth chart. So where, tell me are all the third and fourth round safeties that are starting because i can't find a single one.

[membengal]

Geez, why y'all gotta go and mess up his dreamworld with actual, you know, facts?