walzav29 Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Tom Brady took the Pats to the Superbowl in his 2nd year because of his accuracy and smarts. Carson can have the same results (Overly Optimistic?). He will be able to make everyone else alot better. He will put the ball in places that Kitna could only dream of. He has had a year to soak in everything, and it's going to show. It's all up to the defense to improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbengals1 Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 I SURE HOPE SO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Tom Brady took the Pats to the Superbowl in his 2nd year because of his accuracy and smarts. Carson can have the same results (Overly Optimistic?). He will be able to make everyone else alot better.That's too early to tell. Brady's successes are primarily thanks to a great defense, not forcing Brady to put up too many points per week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Brew Man Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Yeah, Im all for the Super Bowl talk, but Brady had an incredible defense behind him, ours is lacking right now. We'll see what happens in the offseason though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevnz Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Okay enough of the Brady love. He is a good game manager, but he isn't asked to do but so much. It's much easier to play QB when the defense has stopped the other team time and again. His job is to not lose games, and he does that very well. Palmer will be a much better QB than Brady, as long as the team doesn't have to put the game in his hands all the time in his early stages...It's easier to be under center when you've got the lead and the knowledge that your defense can hold if you don't get 7, just give them a breather...Brady is so overated it ain't funny...Hell, when he doesn't have a lead and you put the game in his hands he throws picks...proof? look at the first game against the Bills, 4 picks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 His job is to not lose games, and he does that very well.I respectfully and completely disagree. This season he has engineered 5 game winning drives and 14 in his career; 44% of his wins. While it's true the defense is the main foundation of the team, Brady is the offense. He must perform well if the Pats are going to be successful. He had the game winning drive in the Super Bowl, game tying and winning drive in the AFC Title game. I think he's given that perception because he has next to nothing talent around him. If he had the receivers of Cincy or the overall cast of KC, he'd be given much more respect.proof? look at the first game against the Bills, 4 picks.I can't completely put this on Brady either. Those picks were tips passes and bad routes by their very poor wide receivers. Where's the love? Don't be a hata' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Okay enough of the Brady love. He is a good game manager, but he isn't asked to do but so much. It's much easier to play QB when the defense has stopped the other team time and again. His job is to not lose games, and he does that very well. Palmer will be a much better QB than Brady, as long as the team doesn't have to put the game in his hands all the time in his early stages...It's easier to be under center when you've got the lead and the knowledge that your defense can hold if you don't get 7, just give them a breather...Brady is so overated it ain't funny...Hell, when he doesn't have a lead and you put the game in his hands he throws picks...proof? look at the first game against the Bills, 4 picks. I watched that game. Spikes and the whole defense had a moster game against the Pats. It wasn't only the passing game that wasn't working, the running game didn't do anythng either. Like most any other qb that gives up a lot of picks, Brady was rushed ... hurried and harrassed all the game. He was also trying to overcome a big Buffalo lead, and the Bills rushers were just teeing off on him on every play. He may be somewhat overrated, but he's nowhere near as bad as that game would lead you to believe. Evidence the last game, when the Pats returned the favor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBrooks Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 I'm with you Kirk. Brady is not the cannon arm of Elway or the quick-release, pin-point precision of Marino...but he's good. He has a bunch of midgets running around at WR and no running game to speak of. He can put points on the board (38 vs. Indy, 31 in second game against Buffalo). No doubt the defense is the heart of this team, but Brady is a good QB and hasn't thrown an INT at home all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 I'm with you Kirk. Which Kirk? Like his famous fictional namesake, he appears to have been split into two opposing personalities. Kirk (v1.0) dismissed Brady's success as "primarily thanks to a great defense, not forcing Brady to put up too many points per week." Kirk (v2.0) then countered this argument by pointing out the many times (5 this year, 14 overall) that Brady has pulled his D's fat out of the fire.IMHO, Kirk (v2.0) is right, and Kirk (v1.0) is wrong. I look forward to seeing them duking it out, tho...at least until Scotty gets the transporter fixed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 That was a grammatical error. The first post ("v1.0") was meant to discuss his Super Bowl season and ("v2.0") was meant to deal with this season and minorly overall his career. Take the "es" off success and we should be ok now. Thanks for pointing that out, I kind of sounding like I was contradicting myself. That can't be good."I juss cont du it cap't" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 Glad to be of service. I only noticed it because I was in the middle of replying WTF? to v1.0 when I scrolled down to copy/paste a line and saw v2.0, whereupon I became really confused. That said, I don't think I'd go as far as you did even with regard to the Pats' Super Bowl season. Yes, they were No. 6 in terms of points allowed, but they were also No. 6 in points scored. It was a rare day that they didn't put up at least 20 points with Brady behind center. And that kind of offensive performance allows you to pull out a lot of stops on defense.Bottom line: if Carson Palmer does anywhere near as well as Brady, we'll be just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 15, 2004 Report Share Posted January 15, 2004 No. 6 in points scored.I think the defense contributed to that greatly. Moreso than the offense allowed points at least. Bottom line: if Carson Palmer does anywhere near as well as Brady, we'll be just fine.Agreed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 We have to look at what Palmer brings to our offense.Watching him play with all that talent last year in U.S.C. looks an awful lot like what he's stepped into with Cincy. fact 1. We have a good running game.. whether dillon comes back or not... fact 2. we have talent,speed,and experience at the wide reciever position... ( add a tight end )-kris wilson from pitt.. maybe..and we're set.fact 3. We have a pretty decent offensive line. The line gave up more sacks than it should be credited with.. Too many times Kitna either didn't step up or rolled directly into the pass rush or just simply held the ball to long.Add a Adrian Clarke or a Stephen Peterman to play right guard and groom a young center and we're set.fact 4. Fix the defense. Add a corner. Free Safety , Defensive tackle.. (Tubbs, Mcneil,Lavalais,Edwards) and a middle linebacker.Granted.. we have some holes to fill.. but we got more out of our defense this year than what our talent level is. Palmer looks a lot like a guy that can carry a team on his shoulders. Not like those damn "Run & Shoot" quarterbacks.... Klingler,Couch.. Ware... need i say more.!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2 Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 We have to look at what Palmer brings to our offense.Watching him play with all that talent last year in U.S.C. looks an awful lot like what he's stepped into with Cincy. fact 1. We have a good running game.. whether dillon comes back or not... fact 2. we have talent,speed,and experience at the wide reciever position... ( add a tight end )-kris wilson from pitt.. maybe..and we're set.fact 3. We have a pretty decent offensive line. The line gave up more sacks than it should be credited with.. Too many times Kitna either didn't step up or rolled directly into the pass rush or just simply held the ball to long.Add a Adrian Clarke or a Stephen Peterman to play right guard and groom a young center and we're set.fact 4. Fix the defense. Add a corner. Free Safety , Defensive tackle.. (Tubbs, Mcneil,Lavalais,Edwards) and a middle linebacker.Granted.. we have some holes to fill.. but we got more out of our defense this year than what our talent level is. Palmer looks a lot like a guy that can carry a team on his shoulders. Not like those damn "Run & Shoot" quarterbacks.... Klingler,Couch.. Ware... need i say more.!! I agree 100% til you get to #3. The O line needs work. It went from adequate to porous when Jones and Steinbach both got hurt. There was way too drastic a drop off in performance after that. Kitna rolling into the rusher was usually a guy that came in unblocked, and hoding on the the ball too long is something most qb's are guilty of at times. It's usually cause the other guys have your receivers covered. There were also a lot of times when Kitna took off and ran for positive yardage under those same circumstances. I think Lewis saying that he is going to be more involved in the defense is something that people should have taken a little more note of. I think it puts a lot more pressure on Frazier to produce results next year. It will be interesting to see what happens if he doesn't produce tangible improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirkendall Posted January 16, 2004 Report Share Posted January 16, 2004 fact 1. We have a good running game.. whether dillon comes back or not...I'm still not conviced that R.Johnson is the answer. A majority of his yards came in the second half while the defenses were too tired to react. While in the first half, he often had problems gaining 2-3 yards on any carry then Brat would abandon the run at times because of this. We definately need an improvement if the offense is to improve. This along with what's going on with Dillon. fact 2. we have talent,speed,and experience at the wide reciever position... ( add a tight end )-kris wilson from pitt.. maybe..and we're set.Absolutely agree. We desperately need an all-purpose TE, not one to fill the need at which play Brat runs. We have a pretty decent offensive line. The line gave up more sacks than it should be credited with.. Too many times Kitna either didn't step up or rolled directly into the pass rush or just simply held the ball to long.Add a Adrian Clarke or a Stephen Peterman to play right guard and groom a young center and we're set.Blaming Kitna on this is naive. The line is really young and needs more time as a unit before we can put the final grade on them being either good or bad. We definately need to upgrade our guard and center spots, but I think we'd be better suited with veteran leadership as opposed to using our draft picks; maybe line could be the 2005 theme. fact 4. Fix the defense. Add a corner. Free Safety , Defensive tackle.. (Tubbs, Mcneil,Lavalais,Edwards) and a middle linebacker.Absolutely. This should be our first and foremost concern and priority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Naive...???? Am i the only one that watches " oh lord please help me " kitna..?? There are a hundred more times when kitna had the opportunity to run , and either took a sack or through the ball up for grabs... The fact is.... when kitna is playing well....he's adequate. when he is off.... he throws interceptions and creates turnovers in bunches...and bunches....and bunches...He is sub-par !!He is cinderella waiting on 12 o'clock.He is the guy that is turning in his tax return on april 15th. 3 minutes from midnight and his car breaks down in a thunderstorm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
richmond_mat Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 Naive...???? Am i the only one that watches " oh lord please help me " kitna..?? There are a hundred more times when kitna had the opportunity to run , and either took a sack or through the ball up for grabs... He is cinderella waiting on 12 o'clock.He is the guy that is ...  ...the quarterback of this football team. If there is this much debate about quarterback within the management of the team then we are still in the era of helplessism. As many have pointed out, the QB is not the weakest link. Palmer is making a boat load of money, but so what. Kitna is the QB until palmer outplays him or kitna is hurt.Sorry it has to be this way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHO DEY AGAIN? Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 The only way Kitna holds the QB job is if the BENGALS sign 2 above average corners, a stud at DT, and an impact LB. Then he can play like Dilfer a few years back and let the D take care of buisness. We all know that's not going to happen. Palmer is your QB unless GOD says otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalszoneBilly Posted January 18, 2004 Report Share Posted January 18, 2004 The only way Kitna holds the QB job is if the BENGALS sign 2 above average corners, a stud at DT, and an impact LB. Then he can play like Dilfer a few years back and let the D take care of buisness. We all know that's not going to happen. Palmer is your QB unless GOD says otherwise. Kitna will hold the starting QB job about the same time monkeys start flying outa my butt!! (My sincere apologies to "Wayne's World"!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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