Uh-Oh Lewis has had it.

[HairOnFire]

So I conclude that he and his family really do love the game. In which case, my response to complaints about the business side is: so someone moved your cheese? Well, shut up and deal with it. Change happens to every business, and football is no exception.

Dude, they're buckeyes living in the very heart of Porkopolis. Change comes hard for those types.

[derekshank]

Bottom Line: I didn't pick sides for weeks. I kept my cool like any grey bearded Bengal fan has learned to do over the years. But I've got my limits and it's afir to say that they were surpassed a week ago. So I picked a side.

Hair... I don't begrudge you the right to pick a side. I never had such lofty expectations as to demand that no one ever form an opinion on who was more to blame on this hold-out.

I guess my only point is that I am tired of people forming those opinions in such a close-minded and arrogant way. Many here are so dogmatic in their "opinion" that they feel the need to ridicule anyone who disagrees with them.

I don't have a problem with people who dislike the hold-out, and therefore interpret the limited information available to us as condemning one side more than the other. However, to come down so strong on one side that you insult others for diasagreeing with you, I am simply asking for the use of our brains here, understanding that your opinion is based mostly upon the fictional information we receive from ESPN, Hobson, and Joisey.

I usually look to you as one of the more rational and sensible posters on this forum, so I doubt you disagree with me on this point... despite your love for making posts opposing me when I've made a post to help back you up.

[derekshank]

I don't hate Mikey. I simply understand him.

Mike Brown, and his family, which makes up the Bengals' front office, loves the game of football. And why shouldn't they? They grew up around it, worked in it, all thanks to football legend Paul Brown. Like any mom n' pop shop, it isn't just a 9-to-5 thing, it's a way of life.

What they hate is the business of football -- or more specifically, the business that football has become since the early 1990s and the start of free agency.

They hate free agency, the costs it imposes on them to keep talent and the "funny money" contracts it created.

They hate giving big guaranteed money to draft picks who've never played an NFL down. They hate all the shennigans placed in NFL contracts today -- voidable years, two-tiered signing bonuses, soft incentive and escalataor targets, roster bonuses -- all the non-performance (and minimum-performance)-based junk that's been developed to shimmy and shally around the salary cap.

And they hate the corporate nature of modern football. You may like to comment on how willing I am to tell Mikey how to spend his money -- but Mikey is equally willing to tell Jerry Jones how he should spend his. And specifically that he should spend more of it on...Mike Brown. Because Mike is in a small market and he doesn't want to sell stadium naming rights and he's like, poor, y'know? Hwever you feel about revenue-sharing, it isn't hard to understand why Jerry's response is to flip Mikey the bird.

And so every time the busines of football comes up, as it does, with all those things the front office hates, every year when time comes to sign draft picks...we get these kind of results. The front office enters negotiations with all the enthusiasm you or I might feel for a root canal, sulkily starts at the absolute bottom of the barrel, and then refuses to budge until forced. And when that attitude comes up against a major agency like IMG that does deals by the dozens with all manner of sports teams on a regular basis and suddenly finds itself faced with a front offce with a bad attitude and a homespun contract...well, bad things are likely to happen. And this year, they are.

Joisey... This was the coherent, persuasive, and compelling argument I’ve been waiting for from you! You have successfully made a intruiging insight into the Bengals Front office, without using numbers and tired contract information that is constantly changing.

You have pointed out to me that we are far closer to agreement than I previously thought, and in fact have convinced me to no longer view Mike Brown as incompetent, but old-school. This to me is no less of a problem, and I think we are finding our common ground here.

For instance, mimicking Old-school front offices such as the Eagles and Steelers may not be the way to go, despite their recent success.

Exhibit A: The Eagles and the T.O. situation. I don’t want to be anywhere near that mess. If the Eagles front-office had acted like adults, rather than being bent on humiliating T.O. they might not be having this problem right now. Perhaps he needed to be humiliated... but the Eagles are the ones suffering for it, and their refusal to give T.O. a chance to save face very well might be killing them.

Exhibit B: The recent events of the Steelers and Hines Ward. Sure, they are coming to terms, even as we speak, but at what cost. They should have never broken off discussions with someone who has been so faithful to their organization. It should be easy for Mike Brown to look at that situation as a win for the Steelers front office, because they didn’t budge, and Ward showed up to camp... but they may have won the battle to lose the war.

They certainly have lost the PR war here, and a locker room full of players willing to take pay-cuts in order to help the Steelers win witnessed how the front office rewards a player who has out- played his contract and desires to stay with the team for life. If they stay old-school in their tactics and pull crap like this again, It would not surprise me if it resulted in a mutiny.

Rather, we should look to the Patriots who, yes have cut players who are unwilling to take pay-cuts (Lawyer Milloy, Ty Law), but also have shown a willingness to reward those who have outplayed their contracts (Richard Seymour).

Mike Brown should look to renegotiate with Chad Johnson. I hope he is willing to embrace the way football currently is for the good of the team, rather than sticking to his old-school guns, and burning bridges. I hope Brown will be smarter in the future, and show the players that they should want to play for him, because he won’t do them wrong... I fear he won’t.

I remain in steadfast opposition to you on topics such as your idea that Mike Brown doesn’t care about winning, or that Bryan Robinson was simply the cheapest solution that Mike Brown was willing to pay for, but on this one point you have persuaded me. Bravo.

[HairOnFire]

I am simply asking for the use of our brains here, understanding that your opinion is based mostly upon the fictional information we receive from ESPN, Hobson, and Joisey.

That's priceless. Perfectly worded, very subtle, and yet in the end it's still a boot to the head. Best of all, I'm betting Joisey will love it as much as I do.

Look, I know you're basically agreeing with me so I'm not dinging you so much as I'm trying to clarify the way I feel. I don't hate Pollack like others seem to, but I do blame him for not directing his agent better. And I'm not defending Mike Brown's history of holdouts as much as I'm trying to point out that he has a perfect right to continue doing business any way he sees fit without an agent dictating he change.

We all know it's a mom and pop shop in Cincy, and that's fine with me. In fact, I run my own business and it's fair to say that in that business I'm a pop. Besides, I don't want a Jerry Jones in charge of the Bengals. No kidding, I hate Texans far too much to want them in charge of anything. (And the same thing goes for the bastard sons of Arkansas.)

Last, I don't begrudge an agent the right to get the best deal possible for his client as long as he remembers that after job one comes job two...carelessly defined by me as negotiating fairly and always keeping his clients best interests in mind. And in my mind that means getting a contract agreement as soon as an acceptable deal is on the table.

And based upon what little we know I think that should have happened weeks ago.

[DesperateDerelict]

Joisey, Hair, & Derek -

Great posts, one and all! However, despite your eloquence and newfound comraderie, Pollack is still in Georgia, Mikey-boy is still counting his money, and we the fans are still sittin' here, awaitin' & a-hopin'. Anybody got a beer? Heard a good joke lately?

[derekshank]

Joisey, Hair, & Derek -

Great posts, one and all! However, despite your eloquence and newfound comraderie, Pollack is still in Georgia, Mikey-boy is still counting his money, and we the fans are still sittin' here, awaitin' & a-hopin'. Anybody got a beer? Heard a good joke lately?

Yes, I do... and it seems rather relevant given our trouble signing our #1 draft pick again.

Q. What do the Cincinnati Bengals & Billy Graham have in common?

A. They both can make 60,000 people stand up & yell "Jesus Christ"!

While the rest of you are simply cursing though, Big O and I are simply voicing our displeasure to the only one who can do something about it... (meaning it's going to take a miracle to make Pollack an impact player this season)

[The Big Orange]

You ain't just joking, Shankster...

This month long vigil has wasted all of my candles...I've drunk all my wine, smoked all my incence, and now I'm left with 3 boxers of waifers. Once I'm done with that I'm moving to animal sacrifices...I'm starting with my neighbor's Dachsund, damn yapper.

[membengal]

Joisey, Hair, & Derek -

  Great posts, one and all! However, despite your eloquence and newfound comraderie, Pollack is still in Georgia, Mikey-boy is still counting his money, and we the fans are still sittin' here, awaitin' & a-hopin'. Anybody got a beer? Heard a good joke lately?

Yes, I do... and it seems rather relevant given our trouble signing our #1 draft pick again.

Q. What do the Cincinnati Bengals & Billy Graham have in common?

A. They both can make 60,000 people stand up & yell "Jesus Christ"!

While the rest of you are simply cursing though, Big O and I are simply voicing our displeasure to the only one who can do something about it... (meaning it's going to take a miracle to make Pollack an impact player this season)

Eh, all is not lost with Pollack. He gets in tomorrow (if, of course, who knows what LANGUAGE will hold things up next), watches on Friday, and practices starting next week, there is plenty of time to work him into the line-up. Really, having him come in slowly might be preferable anyway.

Justin had 8 1/2 sacks and missed all of camp and the entire pre-season. Pollack will have an impact. We have just been deprived at this point of actually seeing him in camp and having stories about him. That's irritating, but his season is not lost either.

[HoosierCat]

I remain in steadfast opposition to you on topics such as your idea that Mike Brown doesn’t care about winning, or that Bryan Robinson was simply the cheapest solution that Mike Brown was willing to pay for, but on this one point you have persuaded me. Bravo.

Well, thankee. Keep in mind I'm usually wrong, tho.

Just for the record, it isn't that I believe Mikey doesn't care about winning, but rather that his stubborn resistance to the business side of modern football ends up impeding the team's ability to win. IMHO, the front office spends too much time bemoaning the fact that things aren't like they were "back in the day," and not enough time actually dealing with the changes and finding solutions that work for them.

As for the changes themselves...like Hair, I'm no big fan of them, either. But that's the nature of the business today, and if Mikey wants to be in it, his job as president of the Bengals is to find ways to adapt to it.

[schweinhart]

Eh, all is not lost with Pollack. He gets in tomorrow (if, of course, who knows what LANGUAGE will hold things up next), watches on Friday, and practices starting next week, there is plenty of time to work him into the line-up. Really, having him come in slowly might be preferable anyway.

Justin had 8 1/2 sacks and missed all of camp and the entire pre-season. Pollack will have an impact. We have just been deprived at this point of actually seeing him in camp and having stories about him. That's irritating, but his season is not lost either.

If Pollack were going to play DE, I'd wholeheartedly agree that there's no doubt he'd come in suited to bring his game immediately.

But he's making a position switch that will most likely take more time for him to be completely ready. If he gets a good number of snaps the last 2 pre-season games, it'll help immeasurably. The Bengals do need to break him in slower IMO despite the rushed timeframe because the position switch will force him to sometimes use muscles and joints differently than he ever has before on the field.

Until he's out on the field and showing what he can do.......

Pollack is a Cod.

[DesperateDerelict]

You ain't just joking, Shankster...

This month long vigil has wasted all of my candles...I've drunk all my wine, smoked all my incence, and now I'm left with 3 boxers of waifers. Once I'm done with that I'm moving to animal sacrifices...I'm starting with my neighbor's Dachsund, damn yapper.

BO -

Must be an old picture, after 3 weeks of salads I would expect you to be . . . . . .different!

[The Big Orange]

I'm different on the inside...my outside likes me too much and just wants to hang on...in the meantime, I'm a lot more regular

[HairOnFire]

As for the changes themselves...like Hair, I'm no big fan of them, either. But that's the nature of the business today, and if Mikey wants to be in it, his job as president of the Bengals is to find ways to adapt to it.

Adapting to a business situation works both ways. Agents can't dictate how teams do business. That's not their role and you'll never get me to budge on that one. But I probably don't disagree with you as much as it might seem.

I think the biggest problem the front office has is anticipating how agents will attempt to circumvent the intent of the salary cap from year to year. The Bengals front office is tasked each year with trying to hit a constantly moving target and it seems obvious they aren't as adaptable as most teams.

What I'd like to see is the Bengals change their practice of offering serious bids as late as almost all other teams do. If you want to do business a tick differently than other teams then it seems naive to expect you can accomplish your goals on the same time table. Specifically, if you know you're going to fight pitched battles over contract structure then start early and be in a position to move quickly when a slot price is established.

[HoosierCat]

Adapting to a business situation works both ways. Agents can't dictate how teams do business.

I agree. But once a practice has become common around the league -- like, for example, backloaded contracts -- a team's continued refusal to participate makes them less competitive. Certainly I don't think the Bengals should just bow to any hairbrained scheme an agent comes up with.

What I'd like to see is the Bengals change their practice of offering serious bids as late as almost all other teams do. If you want to do business a tick differently than other teams then it seems naive to expect you can accomplish your goals on the same time table. Specifically, if you know you're going to fight pitched battles over contract structure then start early and be in a position to move quickly when a slot price is established.

I totally agree.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

once a practice has become common around the league -- like, for example, backloaded contracts -- a team's continued refusal to participate makes them less competitive.

This is not completely true. Look how competitive the 49rs are after all their backloaded contracting. Yes, they had a few glory years, but that was followed by sucking completely for how long? And how much longer will they sucK?

Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown have build the base for long term success. If we didn't get our short term glory, that's just fine. We were competitive. In the future, as more time is spent making the team better, we will have even more wins. Building it the way they are, we shouldn't implode either.

[HoosierCat]

once a practice has become common around the league -- like, for example, backloaded contracts -- a team's continued refusal to participate makes them less competitive.

This is not completely true. Look how competitive the 49rs are after all their backloaded contracting. Yes, they had a few glory years, but that was followed by sucking completely for how long? And how much longer will they sucK?

True. It's very easy to put yourself in cap jail. OTOH, refusing to play any contract games at all hasn't exactly made winners out of the Bengals, either. You need a mix.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

once a practice has become common around the league -- like, for example, backloaded contracts -- a team's continued refusal to participate makes them less competitive.

This is not completely true. Look how competitive the 49rs are after all their backloaded contracting. Yes, they had a few glory years, but that was followed by sucking completely for how long? And how much longer will they sucK?

True. It's very easy to put yourself in cap jail. OTOH, refusing to play any contract games at all hasn't exactly made winners out of the Bengals, either. You need a mix.

I'll agree with that, and they have started to play a few games.

[Semper_Fi_Dawg]

May this subject Rest In Peace, never to be spoken of or relived again. TO THE GATES OF HELL AND BEYOND WITH IT.