Receiver Battle

[bengalindian]

Sometimes in 03, Pdub was the best receiver, and could still be. Though Chad has that blazing ability to burn receivers deep, he doesnt have the flashiness and speed combo that Pdub has. Sometimes thats better, and I think that's what Marvin is waiting and hoping on, because its worth the wait.

[cincyhokie]

I think people get misled about draft picks and successes. I don't think that Warrick was worth a #4 pick, however, there is no player that would have been picked in 2000 that could have helped this team on offense. Impact players are so because of the teams they come into.

Good teams make good players great. Peter Warrick had no chance here with the pass protection, the WRs, and QB situation from 2000-2002. He had ZERO chance to succeed.

When the team began to gel under Marvin, you saw what Warrick could do. Chad broke out as well. Rudi had a great year.

Warrick was hurt all of 2004. How can anyone make a judgement on the lack of playing ability when he was hurt for an entire year. Give him some time to show that he is back to his 2003 form.

Is Warrick worth a #4 pick? No, but don't blame him because the Bengals took him at that spot. Is he worth 2.2 million? Yes.

Warrick is the slot reciever the Bengals need to balance this offense.

[Irish Bengal]

walters gone.

[CJBestInAFC]

I say:

Chad

Pdub

TJ

Henry

Tab Perry

Jamaal Broussard

Trade Washington for a draft pick to the Eagles. Walters is good, but I think Perry will help the Bengals more than a lot think. I really like Broussard because he is just like Pdub. I think he could replace pdub next season because I think Pdub might want too big of a contract after the career year he is going to have this season.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Im tired of reading threads about how good/bad Pdub is, lets see him play this preseason and find out before debating a point that has no facts behind it.

[HoosierCat]

I think people get misled about draft picks and successes. I don't think that Warrick was worth a #4 pick, however, there is no player that would have been picked in 2000 that could have helped this team on offense.

As far as the 2000 draft goes, IIRC it was seen as a pretty weak crop. Consensus was that there were three "blue chippers," Courtney Brown, LaVar Arrington and Chris Samuels (so much for conventional wisdom, eh?) and that from there the talent level dropped dramatically. (And it does seem to me that the 1st round of the 2000 draft boasts more than its share of busts.)

Warrick was viewed as the best of a weak receiver class; he had neither the size nor the speed to be the "ideal" NFL WR, but his elusivness and playmaking ability were seen as compensations. He was followed off the board in the 1st by Plexico, Travis Taylor, Sylvester Morris and R. Jay Soward. Of them all, only Plex has put up better numbers. Taylor and Warrick have done about equally as well. Morris and Soward were cosmic-level busts.

I agree he probably wasn't "worth" the 4th, but he's performed OK and done better than some of his peers.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

I'll give you that Joisey, but in my opinion his stats make him a bust. If by some miracle he is fully healthy this year and comes in and gains 1K yards as a #2 or even 700+ yards as a #3, I'll retract this. But it ain't gonna happen because Warrick is not what he was advertised.

[membengal]

I think people get misled about draft picks and successes.  I don't think that Warrick was worth a #4 pick, however, there is no player that would have been picked in 2000 that could have helped this team on offense.

As far as the 2000 draft goes, IIRC it was seen as a pretty weak crop. Consensus was that there were three "blue chippers," Courtney Brown, LaVar Arrington and Chris Samuels (so much for conventional wisdom, eh?) and that from there the talent level dropped dramatically. (And it does seem to me that the 1st round of the 2000 draft boasts more than its share of busts.)

Warrick was viewed as the best of a weak receiver class; he had neither the size nor the speed to be the "ideal" NFL WR, but his elusivness and playmaking ability were seen as compensations. He was followed off the board in the 1st by Plexico, Travis Taylor, Sylvester Morris and R. Jay Soward. Of them all, only Plex has put up better numbers. Taylor and Warrick have done about equally as well. Morris and Soward were cosmic-level busts.

I agree he probably wasn't "worth" the 4th, but he's performed OK and done better than some of his peers.

Rock. Solid. Points.

Standing ovataion from me on that Joisey.

[badassBENGAL]

Guys, I love the Bengals as much as anyone.  But it's time to admit that Warrick was a mistake pick.  Forget everything about his college career and where he was drafted.  Would he make the team? No.  The potential is gone. It may have never been there.  He was a great college player - like Demond Howard, Andre Ware, and Rashan Salaam - but he is a mediorce receiver living off his college reputation.

Its time to cut bait on him.  We missed a pick. It's OK.  Let's get over it and move on.

You might be right about one thing: Warrick was a mistake pick. We could have had Julian Peterson, Keith Bullock, Corey Simon, Shaun Alexander... Hell, we could have even drafted Brady if we had the cajones. I've been as disappointed as the next guy with how our fourth overall pick has produced, but there is no way anyone can convince me that Warrick is merely a mediocre receiver.

This may sound kind of stupid but I think what separates Warrick from other receivers is that P-dub seems to possess an uncanny sense of balance. A play that most comes to mind was against undefeated KC, I think it was the first play of our drive, second-half (?), play-action, Kitna throws long over the middle to Warrick who is then hit by the safety, yet somehow keeps his balance while spinning and then takes off for the endzone. I can remember seeing a whole bunch of other times where Warrick takes a hit that would knock any normal receiver down, yet somehow Warrick maintains his feet and keep the play alive. When the ball's in P-dub's hands, good things happen. This is no mediocre receiver. A healthy 03 version of Warrick is the second-best receiver on our team, in my opinion, and will make our offense that much better.

His best season in the league barely got him 800 yards. He's the epitome of a mediocre reciever.

One reciever spins around, runs in place, hops around, and probably ends up losing yards from his original catch, but still has good moves.

One reciever catches the ball, turns upfield, and runs, despite not having very good moves.

Now which one would you have?

TJ > PW.

[badassBENGAL]

I agree he probably wasn't "worth" the 4th, but he's performed OK and done better than some of his peers.

There should be no probably. And I don't care how much better he did than the players in the draft. Its the same analogy my mom used to use for me in school. Sometimes I would come home with a C or something, but it would be the highest grade that someone scored on that assignment. I would tell my mom that, and she would go on to say that she doesnt give a damn what everyone else scored. What matters is what I score. Who gives a damn how many yards Travis Taylor or the rest of Warrick's peers have put up compared to him? It doesn't help our team suceed at ALL. Hell no, he wasn't worth the 4th.

[cincyhokie]

So how is having an 800 yard, 10 TD slot receiver a bad thing?

Chad Johnson

Housh

Peter Warrick

What is wrong with this 3 receiver set?

Housh puts up an identical year to Warrick in 2004, but you want to hang Warrick because he was the #4 overall pick for a HORRIBLE Bengals team and then was hurt all year last year. It doesn't make any sense. Let the man play for the pre-season, if Lewis thinks he can't play, he won't.

[badassBENGAL]

So how is having an 800 yard, 10 TD slot receiver a bad thing?

Chad Johnson

Housh

Peter Warrick

What is wrong with this 3 receiver set?

Housh puts up an identical year to Warrick in 2004, but you want to hang Warrick because he was the #4 overall pick for a HORRIBLE Bengals team and then was hurt all year last year. It doesn't make any sense. Let the man play for the pre-season, if Lewis thinks he can't play, he won't.

He was the #1 reciever in those years before Chad. Hell, Chad even put up a 1100+ yard season in 2002 with our "s**tty QB situation". But he wasn't picked #4 overall. Thing is, I don't see PW ever getting close to 800 yards again, at least not for this club, because we're simply too deep for him to get as many touches as he used to in our down days, and because I don't think he's that good, or still has what moves he supposedly had before he got injured. We're beyond him and his supposedly fancy dancy moves now. We need to stop trying to hold onto all of our damn draft picks. He was a mistake pick. I forgive the Bengals for that now, because in those days, to be quite frank, our FO was retarded. Let's move on. If he's able to play now, then lets see him play. I just don't think that him returning is gonna add a whole new demension to our passing game like alot of you people seem to think...

[BENGAL]

walters gone.

Based on what???? His excellent performance Friday night?

[lando griffin]

This has nothing to do with if he was a mistake pick or worthy of the 4th pick in the draft. What matters is if he can help the team now. And yes he can. The 2.2 could be used elsewhere, but when you think about it TJ's getting what...3 mill this year?? (someone tell me) and I don't think he's better than Warrick-if he can stay healthy. s**t, before Marvin came he was taking snaps as the qb at the goal line, and having Akili, Frerotte and a not-so-good Kitna throw the ball to him. All of a sudden some order is restored to Bengaldom and he produces...he wasn't worth the 4th pick, but nobody really was like Joisey said.

[lando griffin]

walters gone.

Based on what???? His excellent performance Friday night?

No s**t, I can't see Walter being cut.

[HoosierCat]

Its the same analogy my mom used to use for me in school. Sometimes I would come home with a C or something, but it would be the highest grade that someone scored on that assignment. I would tell my mom that, and she would go on to say that she doesnt give a damn what everyone else scored. What matters is what I score. Who gives a damn how many yards Travis Taylor or the rest of Warrick's peers have put up compared to him?

Because it's the only way to measure the pick. Your analogy is flawed; a more appropriate one would be a multiple choice test on which you got a C --but every question had choices a, b, c, d, and e, but you could only choose a or c on each one.

It doesn't matter which receiver we would have picked in the first round; none of them were "worth" their selection. Guys like Soward shouldn't have even been signed as undrafted FAs. But the Warrick selection was decent; had he not been hurt last year he would definitely have surpassed Taylor, and would have more catches and TDs than Burress.

As for what he brings to the team, he may be our best red zone threat. We don't use TEs in the passing game much, and part of the reason for that has been Warrick and, when he was here, Dillon, who was also a solid receving threat down close. Warick has actually complained before about being a glorified TE. Last year's switch to Rudi, who doesn't have the same hands as CD, and the loss of Warrick really hurt, at least until TJ finally found his game late. Between Warrick and Perry, I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised.

[obrien775]

Who cares they are all good. We are lucky as fans to be having this argument.

[CantStop85]

What are the odds of us retaining 7 wide receivers?

I assume they're highly unlikely because we don't have many expendable players at other positions.

[lando griffin]

I wish we could just keep 2 TE's so we could keep 7 WR's. I really have no attachment to any of our TE's, but I guess you just need 3 in case of injuries. By the way, anyone think Ronnie Ghent has a chance of knocking one of the other TE's out of the mix after reading that article by ol' Hobson like a week ago?

[andybren]

Some 'facts' as I see them:

1. A healthy Warrick is more talented that Washington, Walter, Broussard and Russell.

2. If you cut Warrick you still pay him his salary and take the hit on the salary cap. The only thing to be gained by cutting Warrick is his roster spot.

3. Warrick hasn't lived up to the expectations created by his college career and his high pick in the draft. But that was 5+ years ago. It doesn't affect what he can do for the team today. (It's also worth noting that in the long history of bad Bengal draft picks, Warrick hardly deserves a mention. Even in the chapter titled "Wide Receivers, 2000-2005".)

4. Warrick played for a number of really bad teams, catching passes from really bad quarterbacks. And he didn't have an All-Pro wide receiver drawing double teams on the other side of the field. Even under those circumstances he typically gained twice as many yards as Washington did last year.

5. Warrick plays special teams.

6. Warrick is the best blocking WR on the team.

7. Warrick has experience and/or maturity.

8. Warrick has something to prove.

[DesperateDerelict]

I wish we could just keep 2 TE's so we could keep 7 WR's. I really have no attachment to any of our TE's, but I guess you just need 3 in case of injuries. By the way, anyone think Ronnie Ghent has a chance of knocking one of the other TE's out of the mix after reading that article by ol' Hobson like a week ago?

Lando -

One the 1st intelligent questions about the roster . . . I'd like to see 'em keep Ghent, and let the other TE's know NOW that one of them is toast. Perhaps we'd see some inspired play from the TE position this weekend.

[schweinhart]

Ghent looked impressive and his ability to play TE and backup at FB should light a fire under the ass of Tony Stewart because the cap savings between the 2 amounts to about $400k if the Bengals opt for Ghent.

Stewart needs to show he's worth $400k more than Ghent and soon if he wants to breath easier.

IIRC, Reggie Kelly has $1 mill in signing bonus left for cap, which could be moved to 2006 and his ue salary could be freed up for cap this year...A move I'd like to see because Kelly is grossly overarted as a blocker, is an absolute non-factor in the passing game, and makes way too much money for what little he can do.

As for the WRs, I'd now like to see just 6:

1. Chad

2. Housh

3. P-Dub

4. K-Dub

5. Henry

6. Perry

Perry looks like he can handle the KR duties as well as Russell and Henry replaces Russell as Chad's backup. Walter is a solid special teams player who can catch the ball over the middle and on outs plus take a hit. But he just doesn't good enough separation to produce any YAC.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

I agree he probably wasn't "worth" the 4th, but he's performed OK and done better than some of his peers.

There should be no probably. And I don't care how much better he did than the players in the draft. Its the same analogy my mom used to use for me in school. Sometimes I would come home with a C or something, but it would be the highest grade that someone scored on that assignment. I would tell my mom that, and she would go on to say that she doesnt give a damn what everyone else scored. What matters is what I score. Who gives a damn how many yards Travis Taylor or the rest of Warrick's peers have put up compared to him? It doesn't help our team suceed at ALL. Hell no, he wasn't worth the 4th.

EXACTLY!

[clevelandbengal]