rizzy Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Cowboys and texans signed there top picks to 5 year deals. It is time for DP and OT to see a 4 year deal isn't gonna happen. Hopefully this signings will move them along.http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2120644 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsbengalsbucks Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 It would be nice to have them in camp, but both sides will have to give before this is over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsLB Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 isn't only odell who wants a 4 year deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Only Odell is wanting a 4year deal,nothing has been said about pollack I think his case is just waiting for the slot to set up(atm I'd say he'll be @ camp on monday (davis just signed @ 14) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jditty47 Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 um the texans guy is the pick before us at 16. he should be signed soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slf Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 um the texans guy is the pick before us at 16. he should be signed soon.Defensive end Travis Johnson, the 16th overall selection and the first defensive lineman taken, missed just two practices before signing his first NFL contract Saturday night.Johnson eager to get started Texans' top pick signs his contract but misses practice  By MEGAN MANFULL  Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle.... Texans director of negotiations Dan Ferens worked out with Wichard the details of the five-year deal that can be worth $10.2 million if Johnson reaches a one-time performance bonus of $525,000 that is based on playing time.Johnson will receive $5.92 million of guaranteed money and will get a roster bonus of $1.06 million next week. His base salaries are $230,000, $310,000, $385,000, $707,500 and $1.03 million. ... ... Johnson (6-3, 306), who started 21 of 51 games at Florida State and totaled 175 tackles, 43.5 tackles for loss and 10 sacks, is expected to make a significant impact as a rookie, playing mostly in third-down pass-rush situations. ...It would seem we are expecting even more from David Pollack, offer him the same contract with the appropriate slotted money and get on with it Will he be on the field this afternoon? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Same old same old (from da site, emphasis added)...A deal for first-rounder David Pollack at No. 17 in the round inched closer when the Texans signed Travis Johnson at No. 16 for a reported guarantee of about $7 million on a deal that can reach $10.2 million with a one-time play time bonus of $525,000. That’s a pretty good hike off last year, where the Bengals are working off the 17th pick’s deal of about $6 million of $9 million guaranteed. But they still might have to wait for Erasmus James in Minnesota to come in at No. 18. . .Translation: Johnson's deal was richer than the Bengals' wanted to see, so now they're going to stall until James signs to see if they can squeeze the deal back down a few hundred tho. Meanwhile, Pollack loses practice time... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JungleFanatic Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 It would seem we are expecting even more from David Pollack, offer him the same contract with the appropriate slotted money and get on with it Will he be on the field this afternoon? I agree 100%!What say ye DP? :player: WHO-DEY :player: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Same old same old (from da site, emphasis added)...A deal for first-rounder David Pollack at No. 17 in the round inched closer when the Texans signed Travis Johnson at No. 16 for a reported guarantee of about $7 million on a deal that can reach $10.2 million with a one-time play time bonus of $525,000. That’s a pretty good hike off last year, where the Bengals are working off the 17th pick’s deal of about $6 million of $9 million guaranteed. But they still might have to wait for Erasmus James in Minnesota to come in at No. 18. . .Translation: Johnson's deal was richer than the Bengals' wanted to see, so now they're going to stall until James signs to see if they can squeeze the deal back down a few hundred tho. Meanwhile, Pollack loses practice time... It is richer and I'm not sure the cap hit isn't a lot higher.It's not written what Johnson's cap hit will be but if the Texans take his $1 million roster bonus all in 2005, that plus his salary pushes his cap hit up to $1.3 million. Add the performance bonus at $525k as a likely to be achieved bonus and the cap hit comes to $1.8 million. Looking back at Troy Polamalu at #16 in 2003, his cap hit was $1.1 million with a $819k performance bonus, $445k signing bonus spread over the contract, and a $225k base. The lump sum of the guaranteed money was a $4 million option bonus for 2004.I would suspect that Pollack's deal is getting held up for cap considerations both this year and next. I would think the Bengals are trying to max the cap hit this year w/ Pollack in the manner of Johnson if they can get Thurman locked at 5 yrs and mesh the numbers with the rookie pool. Otherwise, more gets spread into 2006 like Polamalu's deal and it could impact the ability for contract extensions this year when you compound that with the shorter 1st rd contract length this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 I would suspect that Pollack's deal is getting held up for cap considerations both this year and next. Could very well be. In today's enquirer, Curnutte speculates the issue is the amount of guaranteed money, which likely went up more than the Bengals' brain trust expected in the Travis Johnson deal.I'm sure the Bengals have perfectly legitimate concerns about the impact of giving out more guaranteed coin than they expected to. But...to steal a recent line from Marvin Lewis..."it is what it is." The downside of the "let the market come to you" strategy (and it's a perfectly legit strategy) is that sometimes the market doesn't end up where you think it will. So now they wait for James and hope to find some counter-leverage in his deal. Well, that's their prerogative, it's their money, and it's consistent with their strategy...but meanwhile, Pollack isn't in camp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Just an addenda, since it seems getting Pollack in may require Minny to sign James first: nothing seems imminent on the Vikes' end, per the Minny Star-Trib, tho it sounds like things are still moving forward...James' agent, Ethan Lock, spent a third consecutive day meeting with Rob Brzezinski, the Vikings vice president of football operations, at Winter Park. However, Lock headed home to Arizona on Saturday evening without an agreement. That was something of a surprise since a deal was thought to be close Friday."I would have liked to have gotten a deal done and so would have Rob," said Lock, who will resume negotiations with the Vikings today via the telephone. "It's hard. I feel they made a sincere effort and I know we did. I was pleased with the tone."Lock admitted he did not feel the sides were close Saturday but felt they were headed in the right direction. "We made a lot of progress, but we weren't close enough to get it done," he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 No doubt the amount is at issue. And waiting on Erasmus to see if the Brown clan can chisel off a few 100 K certainly is their prerogative.How that guaranteed money is structured does have some implications, though. And I would hope that is factoring into the negotiations more than just guaranteed total. I suspect it is because of the tack for 5 yr deals for rds 2,3, and 4.Pollack and Thurman's deals are obviously linked because of the rookie pool, but I'm guessing that the real few 100 k at issue involve how to max Pollack's cap hit this year within the constraints of the pool cap. I should know better, but I just don't think the Brown clan is that cheap at this point to dicker around with a player who will start and needs to be at camp ASAP.And yes, while it is true that Pollack is not at camp and it does not help him not being there, I'm glad in a way because now it puts some urgency on considerations about depth at SSLB. This gives Wilkins and Stevens the op to go at it, which is very important because ML needs to gauge how effective these guys will be since there still is no guaranatee that Pollack is the man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Pollack and Thurman's deals are obviously linked because of the rookie pool, but I'm guessing that the real few 100 k at issue involve how to max Pollack's cap hit this year within the constraints of the pool cap. I should know better, but I just don't think the Brown clan is that cheap at this point to dicker around with a player who will start and needs to be at camp ASAP. Yeah, I can see that. Or, alternatively, every 100k they can shave off Pollack's deal is another 100k they can use to sweeten Odell's to encourage him to go with the 5-year plan. They will max out the rookie pool, it's just a question of how it's split up.I agree, I don't see the Bengals dickering over a relatively small amount just because they're "cheap," i.e. Mikey wants to squirrel away more in the bank, etc. I'm just saying that the more you allow others to set the market...the greater the probability that you aren't going to be able to get everything you want. And at some point the Bengals are going to have to square their wish list with reality.Also agree on the silver lining, that this lets the other guys get time they wouldn't get it Pollack and Thurman weren't in camp. OTOH, remember that Lewis has shortened camp this year, so snaps are dwindling much more rapidly. If this drags on into late next week, or longer...well, that's not gonna be helpful, y'know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshfan Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 I think we're all antsey to have these guys in camp which is natural..They'll sign soon and all will be well at the LB positions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMC Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 I think we're all antsey to have these guys in camp which is natural..They'll sign soon and all will be well at the LB positions... With Travis Johnson and Marcus Spears signed, it shouldn't be long for Pollack to get in....The Bengals need to give Odell a four-year contract and get done with it already....if he earns a lucrative second contract so be it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontPushMe Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Same old same old (from da site, emphasis added)...A deal for first-rounder David Pollack at No. 17 in the round inched closer when the Texans signed Travis Johnson at No. 16 for a reported guarantee of about $7 million on a deal that can reach $10.2 million with a one-time play time bonus of $525,000. That’s a pretty good hike off last year, where the Bengals are working off the 17th pick’s deal of about $6 million of $9 million guaranteed. But they still might have to wait for Erasmus James in Minnesota to come in at No. 18. . .Translation: Johnson's deal was richer than the Bengals' wanted to see, so now they're going to stall until James signs to see if they can squeeze the deal back down a few hundred tho. Meanwhile, Pollack loses practice time... yeah, because overpaying for players because your impatient is such a great idea good thing you arent our GM!And on Thurman, im not sure why it matters if he signs a 4 or 5 year deal, because if he does good he will probly just hold out for a new one anyway. I think there is more to it then just length. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Same old same old (from da site, emphasis added)...A deal for first-rounder David Pollack at No. 17 in the round inched closer when the Texans signed Travis Johnson at No. 16 for a reported guarantee of about $7 million on a deal that can reach $10.2 million with a one-time play time bonus of $525,000. That’s a pretty good hike off last year, where the Bengals are working off the 17th pick’s deal of about $6 million of $9 million guaranteed. But they still might have to wait for Erasmus James in Minnesota to come in at No. 18. . .Translation: Johnson's deal was richer than the Bengals' wanted to see, so now they're going to stall until James signs to see if they can squeeze the deal back down a few hundred tho. Meanwhile, Pollack loses practice time... isen't that contract less money then #17 last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 yeah, because overpaying for players because your impatient is such a great idea good thing you arent our GM! It has nothing to do with overpaying. It's about what happens when you let others set the market. Which the Bengals do every year -- and which, more often than not, confronts them with a deal they don't like, whether because of total money, guaranteed money, split signing bonuses, voidable years, easy v. difficult incentives and escalators, etc., etc., etc.Again, while I'm not a big fan of the "wait for the market to come to you" strategy, it's a legitimate approach. But in that case, once the market has reached its verdict, you have to be ready to meet the price. And at this point, it appears that they do not like the price tags the market has affixed to Pollack and Thurman (or in Odell's case, the "length tag"). To which I can only reply, hey, you don't like it, you should have pursued a more aggressive, "set the market" strategy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 I should know better, but I just don't think the Brown clan is that cheap at this point to dicker around with a player who will start and needs to be at camp ASAP.Trying to tell myself the same thing - the Bengals won't be stupid about it, but have lost some of their leverage by naming Pollack and Thurman starters this early I think also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalPappaw Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 I should know better, but I just don't think the Brown clan is that cheap at this point to dicker around with a player who will start and needs to be at camp ASAP.Trying to tell myself the same thing - the Bengals won't be stupid about it, but have lost some of their leverage by naming Pollack and Thurman starters this early I think also. I agree its time for the Bengals to get these two players in our camp.In my mind, the Bengals are "saving money at all costs" -- the cost to me is not having the defense that we need to compete for a playoff berth!!!Both players need to be here by Wednesday, 3 Aug or we are playing catch-up again and making excuses for why our defense is NOT quite as good as it is going to be.I also believe the players need to put the pressure on their agents to get the deals done NOW!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsLB Posted July 31, 2005 Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 the front office should grow some balls and just f**kin sign them already Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rizzy Posted July 31, 2005 Author Report Share Posted July 31, 2005 Just from what I have seen of DP and interviews with him he doesn't seem like a hold out type of guy. I bet he is going crazy up in cincy just waiting to get down to georgetown. I am sure he just wants it done but his agent is in his head holdin him back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LABengalsFan09 Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 Derrick Johnson just signed and Erasmus James could be signed at any moment. I hope this helps finally get Pollack in on time. Who knows about Thurman. Landon seems to be mighty pleased though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 I should know better, but I just don't think the Brown clan is that cheap at this point to dicker around with a player who will start and needs to be at camp ASAP.Trying to tell myself the same thing - the Bengals won't be stupid about it, but have lost some of their leverage by naming Pollack and Thurman starters this early I think also. No doubt their agents bring that up, especially Pollack's. And they should if there goal is to get their clients the best deals they can. If Pollack is asking for more than a pick or 2 ahead of him because of that, then not caving in is pretty sound because there's still no guarantee that Pollack is an SSLB, much less THE SSLB for this year.I just can't believe -- even though this is the Brown clan we're talking about -- that the hold up would be waiting for Erasmus James to sign so the Bengals can split the difference between Travis Johnson and James. That would be sheer retardation.I would like to think the hold up with Pollack is directly tied to getting Thurman to sign at 5 yrs so Pollack's cap hit can be more this year and less in subsequent years. That could help them have a few 100k more in cap space next year because Pollack's got the much bigger contract and Thurman's would be better spread so that the Bengals can work on extending Levi and Steinbach with more cap in 2006 to work with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted August 1, 2005 Report Share Posted August 1, 2005 I just can't believe -- even though this is the Brown clan we're talking about -- that the hold up would be waiting for Erasmus James to sign so the Bengals can split the difference between Travis Johnson and James. That would be sheer retardation. Well, this is the Bengals we're talking about here But it looks like we will find out soon, if the report of James' signing on profootballtalk.com is accurate (no $$$ detals last I checked). Haven't seen any other confirmation this monring, but in any event with Williamson signed James, if not done already, can't be far behind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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