walshfan Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 there is no controversy at RB... Johnson is the featured back this season...He'll gain anywhere from 1250 to 1500 yards smashmouth type....Perry may catch some ball out of the backfield for a chance of pace... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 But when it come to a winner-take-all battle between Rudi and Perry I think people are missing the point entirely. I'd agree. There is no battle per se. Rudi will be the starter, Perry will be, if healthy, No. 2 to begin the season. If that combo is at all successful, and there is no reason it should not be, the biggest implication will be for Kenny Watson, who'll likely be looking for a new team in 2006. A few years down the road, if Perry's shown the ability to stay healthy, and when the cap implications of cutting/trading Rudi have diminished and Perry's rookie contract is coming due...then we see what happens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Next_Big_Thing Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 Rudi is like Walter Payton...now I've seen everything... Rudi is no Sweetness, don't get me wrong. Having met the man in person, and had ice tea with him in his kitchen back in 82, he is one of my all time idols. But my point was that Rudi's stats last year certainly were not as horrible as DPme would have us believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 I have no doubt that Rudi is better than Kenny. Frankly, I'm hard-pressed to think of one team in the NFL that has a better back at No. 2 than they do at No. 1. However, Watson's effectiveness on the few chances he got -- a 6.2 yard average per carry, plus 171 yards receiving, making him the team's No. 5 receiver after CJ, TJ, Kwash and Schobel -- argue that performance wasn't the issue. And if performance wasn't the issue why wasn't Watson's role expanded? Why wasn't he asked to ease more of Rudi's staggering workload? Let's not kid ourselves, if Chris Perry manages to stand up for a week or two he'll be hard pressed to better the average production per play that Watson managed. So what about last seasons RB play points to the Bengals desire to use a true 2-back set? Absolutely nothing, right? Yes, I know what coming. But the fear of potential injury to a player who barely played doesn't seem plausible to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CantStop85 Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 And maybe RJ would of gotten more then 1 yard rushing, but he wouldnt of come close to 33 yards receiving. Even in a season when he was on the feild for probly 500+ plays, he STILL couldnt get over 90 yards receiving. Talk about one dimensional! lol...I can't believe your support for Chris Perry being better than Rudi Johnson is the fact that he had 33 yards receiving in 2004. Dude, that's NOTHING...he might as well have been standing on sidelines like Rudi was his rookie season. If you're going to say Chris Perry is a better back, please mention something about his college career and not his grand total 33 receiving yards. Those stats are so insignificant they're not even worth mentioning.Chris Perry is going to have to prove on an NFL field that he's better than Rudi in order to take his job. Can he do it? Who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 So what about last seasons RB play points to the Bengals desire to use a true 2-back set? Absolutely nothing, right? Where did I ever say it did? You're the one who's been harping on two-back sets. All I'm saying is that just by rotating who's in a one-back set, Perry can get 80 or 90 carries before Rudi is in any danger of falling below 300 totes. You argued it would mean Rudi loses 125-130 carries to get Perry the kind of time I said he might see. And if performance wasn't the issue why wasn't Watson's role expanded? Why wasn't he asked to ease more of Rudi's staggering workload?No need to. Keeping Watson in, essentially, reserve against an injury to Rudi was posible because Rudi alone proved capable of carrying the ball as much as Rudi+Dillon had done the year before. Why tempt fate when you have no real No. 3 RB option and your No. 1 has a rep for durability? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 All I'm saying is that just by rotating who's in a one-back set, Perry can get 80 or 90 carries before Rudi is in any danger of falling below 300 totes. You argued it would mean Rudi loses 125-130 carries to get Perry the kind of time I said he might see. To be fair, my response was offered after you used the 1997 Carter/Dillon platoon as an example of the Bengals using a 2-back set. In truth, that example falls under the single back rotation you're describing now. Blurring things further, your previous example showing Carter getting 120 carries is far less than the 80 or 90 now being discussed, and came prior to Dillon putting a deathgrip on the the starting job. Poke me with a stick and I'll argue that today Rudi Johnson has no less of a deathgrip on that starting positing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontPushMe Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 All I'm saying is that just by rotating who's in a one-back set, Perry can get 80 or 90 carries before Rudi is in any danger of falling below 300 totes. You argued it would mean Rudi loses 125-130 carries to get Perry the kind of time I said he might see.To be fair, my response was offered after you used the 1997 Carter/Dillon platoon as an example of the Bengals using a 2-back set. In truth, that example falls under the single back rotation you're describing now. Blurring things further, your previous example showing Carter getting 120 carries is far less than the 80 or 90 now being discussed, and came prior to Dillon putting a deathgrip on the the starting job. Poke me with a stick and I'll argue that today Rudi Johnson has no less of a deathgrip on that starting positing. We know. Youd probly argue at this point that RJ right now is better than Barry Sanders in his prime. We all get it. The truth is, he doesnt have nearly the lock on the starting job that Dillon ever had. If you'd like, i could go find that quote from THIS offseason by Marvin Lewis stating that Chris Perry will compete with Watson AND Rudi Johnson to see who the best guys are. Theres no death grip, hes competing for the starting job just like Watson or Perry is. But because of circomstances, he has the #1 job to lose at this point.Also, You act like taking carries away from RJ would be a bad thing. If you asked him, he would probly say hed like it. Unless hes not confident with his abilities. RJ wasnt effective in the first half. If we could get Perry doing the first 3 quarters, and RJ finishing the opponents off when they were worn down, that would be about perfect, and I think thats what our coaching staff is looking for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 We know. Youd probly argue at this point that RJ right now is better than Barry Sanders in his prime. Hey, check it out. It's yet another example of Pushy ignoring me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 Also, You act like taking carries away from RJ would be a bad thing. If you asked him, he would probly say hed like it. What's the matter Pushy, can't you read? I've repeatedly argued that Rudi could be more effective with fewer carries and on more than one occasion have mentioned what an asset Chris Perry could be if he could get out of bed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 If we could get Perry doing the first 3 quarters, and RJ finishing the opponents off when they were worn down, that would be about perfect, and I think thats what our coaching staff is looking for. What makes you think Chris Perry could hold up for 3 quarters when he couldn't last 3 rushing attempts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ickey44 Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 What makes you think Perry won't be a good back once he's fully recovered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
membengal Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 What makes you think Perry won't be a good back once he's fully recovered?What makes you think his being a "good back" means Rudi is losing his job (Pushy's eternal contention).For the record, to re-state where I am on this, I hope Perry is healthy and contributes along the lines as what was outlined above. A change of pace threat on third downs with 75-100 carries this year. Like Lamont Jordan was used for years in New York. But, until he actually gets on the damn field, that's all it is, is hope. People annoyed with him are quite right in pointing out that he A) ill-advisedly held out, leading to B ) not being in the best of shape when he reported last year, leading to C) injury after injury ruining his rookie season. Until he gets out there, the loud calls for Perry, particularly in light of Rudi's 2004 season AND his new contract are either wilfully stupid or categorically insane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboomer7 Posted July 21, 2005 Report Share Posted July 21, 2005 Good Argument, but what I want to bring in is what's most important in my opinion, money. The Bengals just poured a franchise amount of money into Rudi, so he isn't going anywhere and his does have a pretty good deathgrip on #1. he WILL get the "Bulk" of the carriesHoweverThe benagls also invested a first round pick into Chris Perry with first round money being paid(and Rudi's money dwarfs his, but Chris a first rounder and rudi's on his second contract) He will get a chance to show he can play, probably starting around 10 touches a game and slowly progressing one way or another depending on performance.I really don't think there is a complete one side to stand on on this thread, which by the way is a fabolous football argument. This is why I do invision some two back sets(had to use that one) and I don't invision Rudi carrying it 300 times next year(but it'll be close to that). ANd Perry will probably progress into more than just a backup, but another WEAPON for the Bengals to use. :player: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cincy90 Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 Everyone must be getting bored because this is another one of those retarded topics. Rudi's a Pro Bowl running back. He just broke Dillon's season rushing record last season. He's a human bowling ball. He either bounces off tacklers or spins away from him. He runs hard, hits hard, and makes something where there isn't anything. He just now gets the big contract he deserves, and you're saying he isn't even the best back on the squad?? He had great numbers behind a o-line where 4 of the 5 starters were hurt all season.Perry was good in college, but Ki-Jana was also. And I'm sorry to say the Perry's career is starting out similarly. I think it's a little premature to even say he's a decent nfl player.No question...RUDI, RUDI, RUDI, RUDI, RUDI, RUDI, RUDI, RUDI, RUDI, RUDI... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontPushMe Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 If we could get Perry doing the first 3 quarters, and RJ finishing the opponents off when they were worn down, that would be about perfect, and I think thats what our coaching staff is looking for.What makes you think Chris Perry could hold up for 3 quarters when he couldn't last 3 rushing attempts? you act like any player who ever got 1 injury is done for their career, thats all it was, ONE injuryand i didnt say i completely ignore you, i said i mostly just skim through your posts now, there are some i just dont read, but usually i skim through them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Who? Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 I try to ignore him as much as I can, but it's hard, now i'm going to be blasted by him for no apparent reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 The Bengals just poured a franchise amount of money into Rudi, so he isn't going anywhere and his does have a pretty good deathgrip on #1. he WILL get the "Bulk" of the carriesHoweverThe benagls also invested a first round pick into Chris Perry with first round money being paid.... I think the only reason people bother talking about Chris Perry is due to some strange desire to justify a questionable 1st round draft pick. They see a 1st rounder doing nothing, read about how he has an uncertain role on the team even if he gets healthy, and that makes them uncomfortable. Seriously, if Perry were a high 3rd round pick instead of a late 1st rounder people wouldn't be so quick to assume that he was drafted for anything more than the depth he provides. It's sorta the opposite of the Justin Smith pick. That poor guy will never be good enough for most fans because of how high he was drafted. Meanwhile, Perry will always be looked at as being better than the backup he very clearly is simply because it sucks to think of him as a questionable 1st round pick. Thus, a guy who has done nothing at all somehow gets pimped as being better than the guy who just set the Bengals rushing record. "This is my theory." --- Ann Elk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacD BengalFan Posted July 22, 2005 Report Share Posted July 22, 2005 Why not I'll be the first one to throw it out there. I wouldn't be suprised if Chris Perry is the starting halfback on this team by the end of the season. Anybody who thinks that kid will be content playing second fiddle to Rudi Johnson best recognize. While it hurts to admit it (after watching that former azz-clown Woverine single handedly run the Bucks over) dude is good. Plus it seems like that Perry plays with a lot of heart and leaves it all on the field. I say that after watching the guy run about 40 freagin times against the Bucks. I rember watching in the 4th quarter and guy, after every freagin run, would just be laying there after each run looking like he was done. Then he'd either drag himself off the turf or have his teammate practically pick him up off the turf and drag him back to huddle. Then the freak would get another hand-off and do it again. I rember sitting at a friends house drinking some brews from a keg and wondering out loud in frustration, "HOW THE HELL DOES THAT GUY KEEP GETTING UP!!!" Mthrfckr was like Rocky taking a beat down at the hands of Apollo but he just kept getting up and coming back for more. I've never walked away from a OSU/ Michigan game with respect for a Michigan player, but I came pretty close that day......it was strong performance...... As soon as he gets healthy and on the field though, Rudi better watch out. Kid is a complete back and contract or no contract the best player deserves to start. You know I like Rudi as a back, as much as it seems I don't. I just still have yet to understand why they took Perry last year. I bitched about it... Then I don't understand why they signed Rudi to an extension. I bitched about that... This is the reason though, the Bengals are now officially walking the fence with this backfield sitaution. They have two starting caliber NFL running backs. So I guess it's time for Rudi and Perry go at it and let the play on the field decide who the starter is. I'd say their is no favorites in this competion. Contracts, fan support, hurt feelings, egos, seniority none of these should be a factor on who the Bengals starting RB is. It comes down to who give the Bengals the best chance to win. So good luck guys and may the best man win. I admit, I am coming into this topic kind of late. But I must point out a few things. First, a couple of those TD's he scored against the Buckeyes were because the refs swallowed their whisltles. There were some very blatant holding calls that should have been called on those holding calls. But the refs threw out the rule book and decided that it was not important to call holding penalties. Also, I think the laying around after a run in the latter quarters was an act. It appeared to me that he was just trying to get some attention on national television. But, the few games he played in last year before he was injured, he showed he can be a good change-up back for Rudi. His speed to the outside will drive defenses crazy because they will be focused on the inside running of Rudi. I do hope he stays healthy this season so he can show that he is worth the draft pick they used for him and be a compliment to Rudi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Columbusbengal Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Am I wrong or did it turn out that the Bengals' medical staff misdiagnosed Perry's injury when it first happened and he continued to try to play (or at least practice) witht he injury until it got a lot worse? By the way, do the Bengals have the same medical staff as the Reds??Also, no matter how good Perry was, Hart is going to be better Go Blue! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Am I wrong or did it turn out that the Bengals' medical staff misdiagnosed Perry's injury when it first happened and he continued to try to play (or at least practice) witht he injury until it got a lot worse? Yeah, that's pretty much it, though in all fairness I have been told by those who profess to know a lot about sports hernias that it's extremely difficult to diagnose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spain Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Hey Pushy who wil be better Dillon or Perry? (sorry couldnt resist) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DontPushMe Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Hey Pushy who wil be better Dillon or Perry? (sorry couldnt resist) There are only a small handful of RBs ever that are better than Corey Dillon. Perry will be great, but he wont be as good as Dillon, no way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPW Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Hey Pushy who wil be better Dillon or Perry? (sorry couldnt resist)There are only a small handful of RBs ever that are better than Corey Dillon. Perry will be great, but he wont be as good as Dillon, no way.In Pushy's mind ....(Rudi = anti-Dillon) so it must follow that (Rudi < dog-sh!t)(Perry = anti-Rudi) so it must follow that (Perry = top-dog)I don't see any controversy ...They are two very different Weapons and together will make one very effective Combination.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted July 23, 2005 Report Share Posted July 23, 2005 Yeah, I read once that the Bengals should have just skipped the pick rather than select Perry. Some guy named Pushy said it. As always, take that for whatever it might be worth as I have no idea what kind of credibility he may have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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