Corey Bashers!!!

[chrishcovga]

This is to all the Corey Dillon Bashers out there.Did you once complain while he was carrying this team on his back for his first 6 years.???The man may have an unprofessional mouth,but he is by far a true professional.He touched the ball in what most likely will be his last game as a Bengal,9 times for 61 yards.Breaks down to about 7 yards each time he touched the ball.Does that sound like a man whose purpose on that field today was to let his teammates down.Dillon is a race horse.A great runner.He always falls forward.He always fights for that extra Yard,and he hardly ever fumbles!.He holds all of cincinnati's running back records.(minus one from James Brooks).His jersey has been put in the Hall of Fame twice for his "ON FIELD PERFORMANCES"., and while his mouth and attitude towards this franchise are bitter,he has never once showed it on the field.Rudi Johnson is a good running back.Has good balance,decent vision,and fights for what's there.He's not the thoroughbred Dillon is.Dillon will most likely finish his career above 12,000 yards and end up in Canton Ohio.If we do trade him , let's hope we get a high enough draft pick that we could trade down,and get extra picks.That will be the only way we would be "adding by subtracting". Good Luck Corey Dillon.I hope that if you are so able to make it into the Hall' .. I hope you go in as a Bengal.

[Kirkendall]

Chris - I admire your loyalty toward Dillon, it's rare to see that in the Cincinnati community. Also, I was wondering if you could seperate your posts a little, just put a few sentences in a paragraph or so, it's hard to read that all together.

Dillon has been the man for the Bengals from 1997-2002. But you could also attribute that to the losing ways, did he help us win games? No. Did he help us win a title? No. Did Dillon have the supporting cast around him to accomplish such things? Of course not. But the city is worn down from his constant Bitching (remember 2000 when they were working on his contract, how many times did he say he wasn't going to resign here?), and then his ramblings about leaving this season.

Dillon hasn't been the same runner either. He constantly dances now while before he ran through. While in a pile, he falls backwards now as before he used to keep pumping his legs. Why do we want to pay Dillon all that money when Rudi is clearly the future?

and while his mouth and attitude towards this franchise are bitter,he has never once showed it on the field

Have to disagree here, how many times did Dillon take himself out while the coaches demand he goes back in -- during Coslet and LeBeau's reign? That shows he's above the team.

He holds all of cincinnati's running back records.(minus one from James Brooks).

Compared to other franchises, this isn't much. We haven't had a historically high amount of record performances. While Brooks was great, he didn't play in Cincinnati long enough to make these records too hard to break.

The man may have an unprofessional mouth,but he is by far a true professional.

So Keyshawn, TO, Sapp are true professionals? Professionals are paid to play. True professionals play no matter had bad it gets and do their best without negatively affecting their teams. Dillon is a professional, no doubt. But his constant bickering, his self removal from plays when the coach demands he goes back in, his front office attacks; these are marks of players above the team.

[chrishcovga]

Keyshawn,Terrell Owens, and Warren Sapp are entirely different circumstances.One they have played all most their entire careers for winning teams.They have played for franchises that ran their teams with coaches that were men(unlike bruce coslet) and ran the business of owning a professiona football team like a business , and not like a Ma' and Pop store. Keyshawns' play has been overhyped since his rookie year,and Dillon still has more career touchdowns than he does.

Sapp was drafted by Sam Wyche. So was Derrick Brooks,John Lynch, and the list goes on for that Bucs' team.Sapp and Keyshawn have their Rings, but they got it from having a good supporting cast.

Dillon might not be wise enough to have kept his mouth shut long enough this season to realize that the supporting cast around him is finally catching up,but with his first year he's had to battle nagging injuries, I just think the guy deserves a little more credit for what he's done and could still do for this franchise

.Rudi is not the long term answer at running back.He's good don't get me wrong, I love the way he plays and his desire when he runs,but watching him get caught most of the time he needs to turn the corner because he doesn't have that breakaway kick tells me from a talent standpoint,that if i trade dillon, find someone like him and pray i can find him in the later rounds after i've addressed some other needs.

Oh Yeah , grant me this much, If our Coaching staff really thought Rudi was going to turn out the way he did, would they have started Brandon Bennett against the Browns and Bills.? Rudi didn't get his first start till the Seahawks Game!And their no Bucs or Ravens.

nuff said !

[Kirkendall]

If our Coaching staff really thought Rudi was going to turn out the way he did, would they have started Brandon Bennett against the Browns and Bills.?

If anyone knew he'd play this well, Johnson would have been a higher draft pick. He's been a surprise this year as Dillon was in 1997. If Dillon was so good in '97, why did it take until week 10 to get his first start? He turned out ok. You know as well as I do, that most players need awhile before understanding how to play in the NFL.

Keyshawn,Terrell Owens, and Warren Sapp are entirely different circumstances.

My point is they are above the team. The above were on winning teams, true, but were the focus on their respected sides of the ball. As was Dillon. When TO isn't the focus he bitches and complains, Keyshawn doesn't get the ball he bitches and complain (he wrote a book for pete's sake), when Sapp doesn't get his sacks then he complains (mostly a factor of getting old). And I do believe the Glazier family owns the Bucs (Malcom Glazer, Joel Glazer, Bryan Glazer and Edward Glazer).

[chrishcovga]

I don't care if they're glazed donuts for pete johnsons' sake...lol

Let's move forward... Dillon won't be here.. hopefully (pray for this) we trade him to Detroit a top 5 pick. or Washington ,a top ten pick.Trade down a bit to garner an extra second or third. or both!! and we draft either DeAngelo Hall,Derrick Strait,or Marlin Jackson and D.J.Williams in the 1st.

or keneche Udeze and one of those corners..

draft -Chad Lavalais in round 2 ( pray he's there) and a running back.. _______ fill in the blank...

a center or a top guard in round 3.Maybe a tight end if

Ben watson from ga. or Kris Wilson from Pitt. are still there..

then go after a safety in round 4, like Etric Pruitt..

round 5 get a Punter !!! Kyle you've bailed us out a few times.. but too inconsistent to stick around buddy..

6 another backup running back , like shaud williams from alabama to give Brandon Bennett a run for his money...

round 7 .. a quarterback.

[Kirkendall]

hopefully (pray for this) we trade him to Detroit a top 5 pick

Detroit is a good chance, but no Washington if Spurrier returns. What about the Giants too? I don't think they'll deal with Tiki if his fumbling ways continue, I know they are real frustrated with him.

[HoosierCat]

Let's move forward... Dillon won't be here.. hopefully (pray for this) we trade him to Detroit a top 5 pick. or Washington ,a top ten pick.

I still think letting CD go is a major mistake...but that aside I would be extremely surprised if we got more than a second-round pick -- at best. Teams tend to over-value first round picks to begin with, and The Disgruntled One's act won't help. On top of *that*, conventional wisdom is that CD will be released if the Bengals can't deal him, so unless there's a team out there who really, really wants him, no one's likely to pony up a selection for a guy who'd going to be on the open market anyway.

[PINKY GEE]

Thank you JoiseyCat & chrishcovga my sentiments exactly...I am not pro-bitching(Corey Dee) or whining (C.J.) but that comes with the territory. These guys have issues just like us. If you worked for a large company and they were bringing in a newcomer that look like they have a better proposal than you this time when you were out on FMLA. But you keep there company afloat for the pass 6 years with no help and now you are sharing your old office...wouldn't you feel a little betrayed?

I myself understand where he is coming from but I agree let him move on. That way Rudi will have to prove his consistency and Corey can do his thang!!!!!! This is anygiven sunday guys anything can happen.

Like I said Go Corey Dee...Get a 1000+ a year!!!!!!!

Come on Rudi .....Get 1000+ next year!!!!!!!!

PINKY GEE

[richmond_mat]

Whoever thinks anyone will trade a first rounder for CD is delerious. His value is not what it was 2-3 years ago. Now he is worth maybe a second rounder, but more likely a third rounder and a player to be named later.

I predict that if no satisfactory deal can be struck then cheap mikey will push to keep CD around for cap reasons. I hope coach lewis pushes back to get what he knows is best for the team.

I'd hate to just release him, but that may be best for the TEAM. However, I can't see mikey simply releasing him.

[HoosierCat]

Whoever thinks anyone will trade a first rounder for CD is delerious. His value is not what it was 2-3 years ago. Now he is worth maybe a second rounder, but more likely a third rounder and a player to be named later.

Or perhaps a conditional pick...

I'd hate to just release him, but that may be best for the TEAM.  However, I can't see mikey simply releasing him.

CD seems to be doing a good job of talking his way off the team (without triggering the infamous loyalty clause) so I'm not sure he'll have much choice. And that gives the Bengals next to no leverage in trade negotiations. My bet, tho, is that some team will be sufficiently interested in CD to offer something like a 3rd or 4th round pick, probably on or just before draft day. It will be less than CD is worth but at least it'll be something.

[Boobie Clark]

CD has to go. When Johnson scored his second TD, the cameras cut to CD. He was just sitting on the bench - no smiles or cheers. On the go-ahead drive of a game with playoff implications, why was CD sitting on the bench? Why wasn't he up on the sidelines, encouraging the offense, into the game?

CD was the best player on a losing team. Now he's just trouble. This team needs attitude, but not that kind of attitude. This team needs a leader, he obviously has no interest in being the leader.

[HoosierCat]

For those, like me, who are less than enthused about letting CD go in favor of Rudi, a comforting nugget from Pastabelly's Morning After column (from the section quoting scouts and personnel directors). This is the second time I've seen Lenny maintain it was Rudi, not Dillon, the Cowboys were after:

"For the people who think [bill] Parcells doesn't know personnel very well, kick this one around: In the third week of the season, he tried hard to trade for [Cincinnati tailback] Rudi Johnson, who was just wasting away on the bench. Then near the trade deadline, he made a pitch for [49ers tailback Kevan] Barlow, who was playing caddie to Garrison Hearst, just splitting time. So Barlow, even though he tends to be a knucklehead and would have given Parcells fits, runs for 1,000 yards. And Johnson runs for over 900 yards and will soon make [Corey] Dillon a memory in Cincinnati. Nah, the Tuna, he still knows players."

Anyone Tuna likes is OK by me.

[chrishcovga]

The scary fact is , we could be without the services of both running backs come next year. Rudi , is a restricted free agent, meaning Katie and her father only have to tender' his contract in the 1 million dollar range , and that gurarantees that we either we have to match what ever contract he's offered or that team has to give up a first rounder.

Dillon is 29. He makes 3.4 million a year.

That is very cheap considering the talent that he has.

Washington has a need for a back like Dillon.

Detroit has a need for a back like Dillon.

New England has a pluthera of extra picks, and oh by the way.. Antwoin Smith never opened his mouth like Corey has, and they want him gone more than we want Corey gone.

We have options as a franchise.Let's look at it for what it's worth..

We're gonna have to match whatever offer Rudi gets to keep him.Chances are we don't have the cap space to keep him.Not if we want to possibly land a top corner.

Marvin Lewis has stated that the running back situation " will work itself out ". meaning we could have dillon back next year,and be without Ru-Dey.

Worse thing that could happen (maybe a blessing in disguise) Someone trades for dillon (draft picks) before the draft.Then a team makes Rudi an offer (hopefully before the draft), that we can't match.

Can anyone say Kevin Jones rb Virginia Tech , or Steven Jackson rb Oregon st.....

[BengalBobNC]

I firmly believe Corey saw any game time late in the season so the Bengal organization could prove to the rest of the league that he can still play and that his injuries are behind him. If Corey wasn't under a huge contract, we would've seen a lot more Rudi.

I'm going to dig up the stats and post later on this: After the bye week, when either Rudi or Corey got 20+ carries they ran for 100+ yards. Corey vs the Chargers for 108 I think. Rudi several times for a lot more than that. When Rudi and Corey shared the running, getting only 10 or 11 carries each...we lost. Perhaps to better teams who may have beaten us anyway. Or those particular games we had o-line trouble. Or Bratowski never figured out how to use them effectively together (a very real possibility).

Either way, I think Corey is a distraction like Takeo would've been. Keeping him would be a mistake. He was late for the voluntary camp, he was late to training camp, he said he wanted to be traded to Dallas...all while the TEAM is trying to improve and did. Each time I felt like he was trying to get attention back to him, and showing up his new head coach. Yes, he was all we had from 1997-2002. That's over now...time to move on. Instead of jumping on and supporting the team anyway he could, he shot his mouth off whenever possible. When Ickey was hurt he was on the sidelines urging the team on. When Ki-Jana was hurt (all the time unfortunately) he was on the sideline urging the team on. Where was Corey? This is a team game.

We will be fine with Rudi. We need more help on defense and perhaps a new offensive coordinator. I have issues with Brats play calling.

I've also got to get a new Bengals jersey to replace my #28 (even if he stays). My Cris Collinsworth jersey wore out two years ago! I think I will just pick a number and have my name put on it. Maybe #32! With free agency sending players all over the place and the cost of jerseys, I don't think I want a players name on the jersey anymore.

[HoosierCat]

Worse thing that could happen (maybe a blessing in disguise) Someone trades for dillon (draft picks) before the draft.Then a team makes Rudi an offer (hopefully before the draft), that we can't match.

Can anyone say Kevin Jones rb Virginia Tech , or Steven Jackson rb Oregon st.....

Bingo. There's no "scary fact" about it. Rudi will get a first-round-value RFA offer, we'll get at least a 3rd or 4th for Dillon (insert crossed fingers here) and we draft the RB of the future and, if necessary, let Kenny Watson run the ball next year.

Still sorry to see Corey go. But what must be will be.

[Arizona]

And now for the Ravens' fan cold shower segment of this discussion...

First, I don't think you guys will get anything for Corey Dillon based on two factors. He's old and he will be released. Why trade for a player that will get cut and can be picked up cheap. Now, if it seems that the Bengals will hold on to him and they ask for a real cheap price, maybe somebody will cough up a second day pick, but not first day. Franchises that need a good back are rebuilding franchises, and you don't rebuild around a 30 year old runner. Just no good. Look at Stephen Davis last year. Great back, no trade value.

As to Rudi, I don't believe that other teams will be knocking down walls to get him. He's a solid back, but nothing special. And before anyone responds to that, tell me if you would up him in the same class as Priest, LT, Ahman Green, or JLew? Having said that, I think he get's offered the highest tender, nobody matches it, and he's back again for you guys. If you draft a speed back to compliment him you'll have something.

Now, of course, this is all based on an assumption that nobody will go Daniel Snyder out there and do really stupid things. Then again, there is only one Daniel Snyder out there and he blew his wad last year, so you may be out of luck.

[richmond_mat]

As to Rudi, I don't believe that other teams will be knocking down walls to get him. He's a solid back, but nothing special. And before anyone responds to that, tell me if you would up him in the same class as Priest, LT, Ahman Green, or JLew? Having said that, I think he get's offered the highest tender, nobody matches it, and he's back again for you guys. If you draft a speed back to compliment him you'll have something.

I'd like to see a full season of rudi before I rate him against his peers. A balanced team doesn't need a Jamal Lewis. A tough competent back is what this offense needs and rudi looks like he can be just that.

Heck the ravines would struggle to be a .500 team without Jamal.

I believe someone will try to sign rudi.

[HoosierCat]

And now for the Ravens' fan cold shower segment of this discussion...

First, I don't think you guys will get anything for Corey Dillon based on two factors.

I'd turn the faucet off right there and save a few bucks on your water bill, 'zona. You aren't saying anything that most people here don't know: we'll be lucky to get a 3rd rounder for Dillon. That said, he's aging but not ancient, and as chris pointed out on another thread his $3 million/year price tag is a lot cheaper than a 1st round RB selection. Chances are someone will offer up something for him. Personally, I expect something along the lines of nothing this year and conditional pick in April 2005. Say a fourth round pick to start with escalators that bring it up to a second if he does real well for his new team.

As to Rudi, I don't believe that other teams will be knocking down walls to get him.

No one here said they would, and few Bengals fans believe he's proved himself the next Coming. But if someone does want to give up a 1st for him, we're cool with that, too. Bill Parcells seems to think highly of him, and that says a lot.

[halp]

boys.....i think willie anderson sums it up pretty DARN well. any way... cd was a cancer from the time the offense began to take on a passing game 2-3 years ago. saw this time and time again at the games. poor attitude. lebeau (sp?) put up with it and LEWIS addressed it in a professional way. cd handled it as a total detriment to this team. once again the seattle mariners went from superstar losers to average player winners. while dillon had his way and was the roster in the hen house, we the fans suffered with loss after loss. do you really think we called a SWEEP at the goal line for cd? maybe that's why he didn't play any more. had to have his way and lost. matter of fact... WE LOST.

[HoosierCat]

IMHO...

Corey Dillon is the latest, and hopefully last, victim of the Mike Brown Era -- or as kirk likes to call it, the Age of Helplessism. Drafted into a horrible situation over which, it must be emphasized, he had no control, Dillon proceeded to produce fine results that had nary an effect on the win-loss record. He made it burger-flippin' clear that he did not want to be here, yet management used the rules to keep him from going elsewhere. I have little sympathy for Corey, but the situation isn't all his fault. What I am sorriest about is simply that he could not put the past behind him this year; that he could not embrace the future offered by Marvin Lewis. I really think his best hope was in Cincy. But that's pretty much over now. Best of luck, Corey. Thanks for the yards.

[redsfan2]

While I admire everyones loyalty to Corey Dillon, I also have to note that if he'd shown as much loyalty in return, we most likely wouldn't be talikng about him leaving next year.

It wan't the fans or the other guys on the team last month who told everybody to get rid of him. It was him saying it for everybody to hear. Same thing with this game. He's the one who took his jersey off and threw it. No one walked over and asked for it.

Its funny to me that you've got guys like Kitna and Rudi that have put up serious numbers and are saying they want to stay with the team in any capacity that is asked of them, ....... and then you've got Dillon who had a sub standard year and is saying I am looking for a new home, and its Dillon that's gettin all the props and the other two are being labeling as goats.

No offense Corey but please do everyone a favor and head immediately for the Takeo Spikes Memorial Highway out of town.

[HoosierCat]

Its funny to me that you've got guys like Kitna and Rudi that have put up serious numbers and are saying they want to stay with the team in any capacity that is asked of them, ....... and then you've got Dillon who had a sub standard year and is saying I am looking for a new home, and its Dillon that's gettin all the props and the other two are being labeling as goats.

I don't know that anyone is giving Dillon props, or labeling Kit and Rudi goats. CD has provided us with years of record-setting excitement, to say nothing of message board fodder. Kit and Rudi deserve equal amounts of praise and raspberries. At 8-8, dem's the breaks (tho for my part, I'd gladly buy their beer any night!).

As I said, I have little sympathy for Corey. However bad the situation was in Cincy, he made more money in his time here than 99.999% of the rest of the world's population will make in their lifetimes. I don't cry for millionaires, especially ones who whine "woe is me" as they rake in the dough.

That said, I'm also man enough to admit there's a boatload of jealousy on my part in that assessment, and that if I were in his shoes -- one of a very small group of elite NFL millionaire running backs -- I might feel different. I may be well-paid...but by an organization that only pretends to be in the business it's in (football) and which has exposed me and my family to years of media ridicule. Compared to my peers, who play for *real* football teams, my situation blows. I've made my displeasure as plain as possible, but must watch my mouth or forfeit millions thanks to a loyalty clause. Did I have to sign the contract? No...but what were my options? Quit football? I can't just go to another "company" (team), the league doesn't work that way. I can work for Mikey...or not at all.

The bottom line, in my mind anyhow, is that there is ample blame to go around. Corey would likely have been a pain in the neck on any team...and Mikey's mismanagement only exacerbated the situation. In a very appropriate way, they both got exactly what they deserved. Mikey is likely to reap the fruits of his ineptitude to the tune of $4 million -- the remaining signing bonus he'll have to eat after trading or releasing CD. And CD is now unlikely to ever find the Hall-of-Fame-level greatness he desires, precisely because of his asinine behavior. The Bengals, and CD, will both have squandered a great talent, and the ultimate losers are Cincy's long-suffering fans, as well as fans of plain old good football everywhere.

[redsfan2]

In a very appropriate way, they both got exactly what they deserved. Mikey is likely to reap the fruits of his ineptitude to the tune of $4 million -- the remaining signing bonus he'll have to eat after trading or releasing CD. And CD is now unlikely to ever find the Hall-of-Fame-level greatness he desires, precisely because of his asinine behavior. The Bengals, and CD, will both have squandered a great talent, and the ultimate losers are Cincy's long-suffering fans, as well as fans of plain old good football everywhere.

I've said before that I like the variety of opinions and personality types that give rise to them that I've seen on this board. Having said that, I also think this is the first statement I've ever seen here that would probably get a 100% agreement rating from everyone of them.

[WHO DEY AGAIN?]

Some poeple just don't get it!Taking up for Corey just shows you were not paying attention all year.Hall of fame? More like hall of shame!

Let it go! He's gone and true Bengal fans are better off! The TEAM will be stronger without the cancer. Dude sell your Corey cards and come out from under your rock.

[Arizona]

No Jamal and I think .500 is generous. No Jamal or Ray and we go 0-16.

As to my post, perhaps I can't read tone well on this board, or perhaps I assume the voices of a few are indicative of the feelings of the masses. I got the impression that people were expecting tons of compensation for your two backs, hence my post.