Most Valuable Reds Player...

[7/11]

i say wily mo...he is still young and better, in allll respects, than dunn. he leads the majors in at-bats per HR, but doesn't have enough AB's to qualify. every 7.5 at-bats or somethin, he hits a homerun. he's an average fielder, but has a lot of promise. unlike donkey, who i'm thinkin a lot of people think is the most valuable red, he can hit around. donkey either hits a HR, or strikes out...and he will NEVER hit it left of second.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Puhleeze. They could lose the lot of them, and you'd never know the difference. How hard is it to suck? ***edit: Leave my last girlfriend out of this! That's a whole different issue! You could field a team from the guy's here in the forum and accomplish the same level of suck! These guy's are doing nothing but stinkin' up the league. Like I care...

Oh...and Junior! Take that big paycheck of yours and stuff it up your over-rated patoot! I cannot believe I was happy to see you come to Cincinnati. You're not half the man your father was. You've spent more time on the DL than most players spend in the league! I'd like to install you at my house as a ventilation fan, you whiff so much! If I could only find three other Reds to stand on base, I'd have myself a virtual wind tunnel!! You've delivered nothing but a truckload of sheer disappointment.

BTW... are you related to Chris Perry? You're both as fragile as a box of thin shelled eggs!

My, my, my. Ain't I just a fount of pure baseball joyfulness?

SCREW BASEBALL! BRING ON AMERICA'S TRUE SPORT! NFL FOOTBALL!!

[brownsblow05]

Amen.

[jditty47]

bad analogy...shoulda said nate webster. nate had played elsewhere, perry was a recent draftee, griffey didnt get drafted by cincy. bad injury analogy

oh and so billy...u never got any from ur ex or something? did she like always have an excuse or something?

[BengalszoneBilly]

oh and so billy...u never got any from ur ex or something?  did she like always have an excuse or something? 

Not at all. The problem wasn't willingness. The problem was ability, as in a distinct lack of.

Dude. You should know all it takes is one woman who knows what the hell she's doing to make you an addict while totally spoiling it for the rest of them and make anything less completely unexceptable for the rest of your life!

Get the CD "I'll be dead someday" by Joe Rogan. (Yeah...the host of Fear Factor and the "Man Show" *post Jimmie Kimmel.) He was a standup comedian before he got that gig, and he does a bit on this topic that is hilarious, but oh so true. And not just from a mans point of view either! He expresses support for the women in this debate. Men can be lame too, but you're probably tired of hearing about that jditty.

Anyway go buy/steal/download it. Believe me, it's worth the money, and it'll make you wonder why he's wasting his time hosting a show that bases itself on eating disgusting s**t!

[Kirkendall]

SCREW BASEBALL! BRING ON AMERICA'S TRUE SPORT! NFL FOOTBALL!!

Then why do you continue the insufferable baseball sucks posts?

[Kirkendall]

Since "7/11" wanted to have baseball talk, not "ohh, baseball is such a bad sport, wah wah wah", I'll take up the discussion.

In order of important to this team starting from most important to most expendable.

1. Felipe Lopez -- the true nature of this guy's potential is still surfacing. Defense is among the best in the league. Power is good, average is high, and he's the second best offensive player on this team using the Bill James sabermetrics. Youth is on his side too, and since Cincinnati is about lifelong great shortstops, Felipe has the potential at being the team's most productive hitter.

2. Wily Mo Pena -- This guy can hit a baseball. He's strong and takes games over. Some downpoints, as to why he's second -- defense is horrible. He needs more time. He's one of those pure hitters, but the mental aspects of the game escapes him. If you get a pitcher that can place pitches around the corner, changing speeds, you can get him out easily.

3. Ken Griffey Jr. -- Easily one of the hottest hitters on the team. He's homerun swing is back, solid (not old spectacular) defense. His age and injury factor though always makes people weary when making all-out effort plays. But anyone bitching about Griffey clearly isn't following this team right now.

4. Aaron Harang -- If this team didn't have such bad pitching he wouldn't even be on this list. Harang is a solid pitcher, but doesn't have consistent outings. He'll go a good 8 (120+ pitch count) for about 2 starts, then drops off. He's been easily our best pitcher, which still, in my mind, isn't something to be proud of. But I'll take it.

5. Sean Casey -- best singles hitter on the team. And I believe if he wasn't forced in the #3 hole he'd have a much better season. Defense is solid but hits into too many double plays.

6. Ryan Freel -- Freel is awesome. Gets on base. Hustles. But has zero skills and needs hustle and a fierce competitive attitude to success in MLB. Problem is, hustle and fire wears out, skills do not.

7. Adam Dunn -- trade the prick. If you want to reduce strikeouts, promote better defense, not pay $8-10 million to him next season, listen to whining about a chair, a jersey, and Danny Graves' release, inconsistent hitting only good for one happy hit in 10-12 at bats, then trade Dunn before the all-star break.

8. Austin Kearns -- He's in AAA now.

9. Ryan Wagner -- He hasn't convinced me he can save a game or even throw strikes.

10. Joe Randa -- Just keeping the bag warm for Encarnacion.

[7/11]

thanks for the reply dude...

i agree with ya on most every aspect, except i'd flip wily mo and felipe. lopez is gaining my confidence in him day by day, and seems to have a real cool head at the plate, which is pretty vital...age/potential put wily mo and felipe at the top of the list...

and since you mentioned it, big donkey is pathetic and we should trade him while other teams still think so highly of him. he is lazy, uninspired, terrible in the field (not too bad at 1st), lax at the plate...i've seen that dude out at night doin the six-step shuffle when he has a day game the next day a handful of times...doesn't give a crap about the game...

...can't wait to see edwin in the next few years either...

[BengalszoneBilly]

Since "7/11" wanted to have baseball talk, not "ohh, baseball is such a bad sport, wah wah wah", I'll take up the discussion.

C'mon Josh. Let's get accurate. No where did I say the words baseball is a bad sport. The wah wahs appear to be yours too. I LOVE what used to be baseball in Cincinnati. I hate what it has become now, which is just a mere shell of it's former self. The whole organization from top to bottom just doesn't compare. The Reds used to be a respected organization. Key word in that sentence: used.

I blame the ownership. I will continue to blame the ownership. Sorry, but I can't be one of the "Rah-Rah" boys if the "Rah-Rah" isn't real. I ain't faking it for nobody. The truth is the Reds are pathetic. I don't believe I'm lying or mistaken here. I'm stating a fact. Today standings which I just read, have the Reds in last place, 10 games under .500, and 14 full games behind the division leading St. Louis Cardinals. All this accomplished about a month before the All Star break. Would you care to point out where that doesn't suck?

Conversely, if the Reds do suddenly stop sucking, and by some miracle make the playoffs, I guess I'll have some serious crow to dine on. But I really doubt I'm coming off of my "No Crow" diet anytime soon, and I stand by my statement of a previous post: "They could lose the lot of them, and you'd never know the difference." How hard is it to hold onto last place anyway?

  Amen. 

And Amen to you too my brother, for you have seen the way, the truth, and the light.

BTW, my critical comments on the Reds are not borne out of hatred. I was a Reds fan long before I was a Bengals fan. It angers me what Carl Lindner has allowed the Reds to become! It's not like he's a "poor" owner. He's got major $$$, more than even Stienbrenner, yet the Reds are in last place!

Does anyone else get the feeling he's using the team for nothing more than a tax write-off? My God people! If you truly do love the Reds, you cannot stand by silently and let this man continue to run the Reds this way!! You need to voice your displeasure! Loudly!! Let him know you're not happy with the job he's done. I'm not! Unless you like having a bad team, how could you be?

Hey Carl! Here a "Global Peace Initiative" for ya! Sell the team to somebody who CARES!! We want a owner who loves baseball running the Reds! You're not it! 7/11, Josh, brownsblow05, myself, as well as all the people of Cincinnati deserve better!

[7/11]

cheers to that...it's real hard to be a reds fan with lindner & co. sittin on their wallets. people have told me lindner is the richest owner in baseball. that is weak- we've got one of the richer histories in baseball and have every reason to field a good team that lives up to that history, which one of the few ways this city has of bringing its people together. if lindner is, in fact, the richest owner, or even one of them, he should be droppin some more loot...and crap, i'd think he'd only make more money if he resurrected the team's prestige?

i agree- he should sell the team or put the reds back on the %#&$*@! map.

[CBin2k7]

Carl Lindner is to blame, but the Reds whole management from top to bottom should be examined.

The Reds cant develop starting pitching, they continue to miss in the draft with very few exceptions. The farm teams are losing across the board and not producing any good prospects.

Then they go out this offseason and waste money on Eric Milton, poorly spent money, no talent development, a lack of fundamentals still. Strikeout too much, can't hit behind runners, strand runners on 3rd with less than two outs, it's on and on and on.

[bengalboomer7]

Lindner a business man, it doesn't matter how much money he has, he won't invest anymore that causes him not to make a profit. As much as I hate him, Steinbrenner loves baseball and he loves to win. He spends his money the way he does cause he wants to be the best. But it helps that because of his market and the teams popularity, he still makes moeny.

[Kirkendall]

Billy -- you're absolutely right; the Reds do suck right now. Well the Reds pitching sucks. The offense is still entertaining -- when they ain't watching the third strike into the catcher's mit.

I understand your position on ownership.

But let's take a different approach.

According to USA today, the Reds have the 18th highest salaries. That's more than the Minnesota Twins (36-25 2nd place), Texas Rangers (34-28 2nd place), Washington Nationals, (37-27 1st place), Florida Marlins (32-29) and are only a few million less than the San Diego Padres (36-27 1st place) and Baltimore Orioles (37-16 1st place).

Conversely, the top three payrolls (NY Mets, Yankees, and BoSox) account for $433.1 million combined payroll and combined are 96-92.

Dumping Graves and Jimenez and putting Kearns in the minors, I don't believe reflects financial efficiency and since we're paying $5 mil to Graves while he's playing with the Mets and Jimenez making MLB money in Chattanooga is a little off the Linder path.

I will, however, support the argument that the FA pickups this off-season weren't well thought out and seemed like they were going through the motions to pick up bigger names to put more butts in the seats -- yea, that kinda backfired.

Let's examine other aspects.

The players on this team (minus the obvious Casey) have zero heart. Little fundamental skills (bunt a guy over, hit to the right side of the infield to move a guy from second to third, sacrifice flies to score runs). I blame that on the players, as well as Chris Chambliss (sp?).

Then we look at pitching. We have the Dan O'Brien signing of Eric Milton; a guy notorious for giving up homers in a ballpark notorious for giving up homers (you figure that out). Paul Wilson having an ERA of 6.00 or above since the '04 all-star break. What about Danny Graves? What was done with him before moving on? Did we suddenly forget he was an all-star? Did he magically drop 4-5 MPH on his fastball and sinker? Was releasing Graves’s performance based, or was it because he shinned the finger? Where's Gullett?

What about the medical staff? It took an interview on Lance's show with Dan O'Brien to tell us that Paul Wilson is fine, to find out a week later that he's missing a few starts to recover from an injury, to going into surgery today. You figure that out.

I think blaming ownership is valid, but it can't be just that. Everything on this team reflects an uninspired negative non-team based attitude. That's the Reds of today.

I also think the majority of the blame should go to Jim Bowdon. I mean, we've now reflected and agreed how important our minor league system is. Bowdon stacked it with bats, but filled the holes in with traveling minor league pitchers never to make a mark on Cincinnati Reds history. He left the team as a complete mess.

With all that said, I still love rooting for the Reds. It just sucks right now b/c the team is admitting that we're in a rebuilding phase. However, we'll see how much so when the trading deadline approaches -- I say everyone is available for trade. But that's just me.

[bengalboomer7]

To put it simply for you Kirk, The whole organization is running poorly right now That salary figure kind of pissed me off a bit. It shows that the guys making the decisions for the Reds don't know jack s**t. Look at all the promising young players on those teams. The rangers, Marlins, Twins, they are all stacked with 25 year old guys and have a few veterans(Tori Hunter, Carlos Delgado, Soriano) mixed in for continuity. We did have young studs(Dunn, kearns) but they haven't learned a thing from our coaching staff and haven't developed at all physically or emotionally. Simply put, we are a poorly run organization!

Oh yeah, I got s**t on last year for saying get rid of Dunn, or someone please teach him to hit a single!

[Kirkendall]

To put it simply for you Kirk, The whole organization is running poorly right now That salary figure kind of pissed me off a bit. It shows that the guys making the decisions for the Reds don't know jack s**t. Look at all the promising young players on those teams. The rangers, Marlins, Twins, they are all stacked with 25 year old guys and have a few veterans(Tori Hunter, Carlos Delgado, Soriano) mixed in for continuity. We did have young studs(Dunn, kearns) but they haven't learned a thing from our coaching staff and haven't developed at all physically or emotionally. Simply put, we are a poorly run organization!

Oh yeah, I got s**t on last year for saying get rid of Dunn, or someone please teach him to hit a single!

I support that. But I blame the baseball brass, not just ownership. I blame Bowdon for our current team. I blame O'Brien for goof-ball signings. I blame Miley for not taking charge of this team. I blame the players for not caring.

[CBin2k7]

I am in the majority with you guys placing blame on the entire staff.

It is Bowden's fault the Reds have for a long time been in love with 5 tool outfielders. But where are the pitchers, where is Howington, Gruler, they traded Moseley. What is their plan, how do they plan on getting the Reds back competitive again and improving the farm system.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I think blaming ownership is valid, but it can't be just that. Everything on this team reflects an uninspired negative non-team based attitude. That's the Reds of today.

I also think the majority of the blame should go to Jim Bowdon. I mean, we've now reflected and agreed how important our minor league system is. Bowdon stacked it with bats, but filled the holes in with traveling minor league pitchers never to make a mark on Cincinnati Reds history. He left the team as a complete mess.

Interesting point. I'll have to google up some data on that.

With all that said, I still love rooting for the Reds.

Josh, I wish I could, but it's just too damn painful. It's not that I'll only back a winner, if that was the case, why would I be at a "Bengals" oriented football forum for crissakes! I would just like to see the Reds with some respectability. Again.

[BengalszoneBilly]

i say wily mo...he is still young and better, in allll respects, than dunn. he leads the majors in at-bats per HR, but doesn't have enough AB's to qualify. every 7.5 at-bats or somethin, he hits a homerun. he's an average fielder, but has a lot of promise. unlike donkey, who i'm thinkin a lot of people think is the most valuable red, he can hit around. donkey either hits a HR, or strikes out...and he will NEVER hit it left of second.

Oh, I want to apologize to 7/11 for Hijacking his thread. My bad dude.

BTW...I voted Casey.

[Kirkendall]

I would just like to see the Reds with some respectability. Again.

I hear ya bud.

Do you think that could be the distance from where you are and having no concernable Reds talk, or updates on the radio? I'm asking, because I came from Minnesota, and my alligences quietly went Cincinnati-bound after I moved. I wonder if it's kinda the reverse in a sense.

[DesperateDerelict]

Other - I vote the fans (ooops - too late - already lost 'em)

[BengalszoneBilly]

I would just like to see the Reds with some respectability. Again.

I hear ya bud.

Do you think that could be the distance from where you are and having no concernable Reds talk, or updates on the radio?

Could be. Out here in Arizona, unless the Diamondbacks, Dodgers, Rockies, or Padres are playing the Reds, it's like they don't even exist. Not even Ken Griffey Jr.'s name is ever mentioned. If they're not going to mention him, who on the Reds are they going to talk about?

Well except in Blogs. Here's one from a guy named "Josh" (not Kirkendall! What is it with Blogs and writers named "Josh" anyway! ) and even though written almost a year ago seems to be very accurate, and pretty well sums up my feelings.

Reds fire GM Jim Bowden, Manager Bob Boone

Submitted by Josh on Monday, 28 July, 2003 - 10:44 Reds Baseball

 

Reds fire GM Jim Bowden, Manager Bob Boone.

I have been a Reds fan since I was old enough to walk. Before the Arizona Diamonbacks were even a pie in the sky dream. There is precious little in the sports world that gets me worked up. Hitting a golf ball in the water. Univ. of Arizona football. And most of all, Reds baseball. The Diamondbacks coming to Arizona has allowed me to have my beer and a dog at the park, while DirecTV has let me quench my Reds baseball thirst.

What's life like as a die-hard Reds fan. Especially half a continent away. I liken it to drowning in a pool, suddenly to feel that hand lurk out, grab you from the water and let you get a few, deep gasps of air. The hope of surviving fills your body, just as that same hand lets you slide and begins to push you back under the water again.

So the lack of talent is Bob Boone's fault. And the lack of money to get that talent is Jim Bowden's fault. Owner Carl Lindner has been nothing but a disappointment since he bought the team. One of the catches of making a business investment, is you have to actually invest some capital to get some sort of return. Apparently in building up Chiquita Lindner missed that boat.

Here's my personal feelings on Bowden. He's been an amazing judge of retreads, especially in the pitching category over the last decade. He's found some great people to set up for Don Gullet to work his magic. Boone, well, I wasn't for the hiring of him. Oester had a Reds history, and would have done a good as Boone or better, but Lindner lowballed him, but what else would you expect. But Bowden has lied to players faces before, about being traded. And that eats at his crediblity. Ultimately, it was the Griffey trade that did him in, his greatest crowning achievement. Dave Miley, the AAA Louisville manager, has been appointed interim manager. Here's hoping they stick with him. I loathe retread, formerly fired managers. If Miley has some success, stick w/ him. His track record as the Mudbats manager lends credence that he'll do well. Boone can definately take fault for the horrid fielding. And the poor handling of pitching, and the chinese water torture of constantly tinkering w/ the lineup. But he can't control the money available to get the talent in. So I don't see things changing much. What rising star in GM circiles would take on this job now, knowing that Bowden had some success with no resources, with the pressure that will be on them in that spot.

My friend Shawn over at the Reds Blog also points out that the hitting and third base coaches have also been fired. Well, if your going to clean house, do it from top to bottom I guess. But unless Miley pulls a rabbit out of his hat or Ray Knight learns how to pitch, things aren't going to change much in Cincinnati. And that hand just pushes you back down beneath the water.

Of course Bowden has now gone to the Nationals, but it's almost eerie as far as the insight this guy had almost a year ago.