Enquirer Draft Assessment

[jjakq27]

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/art...SPT02/504170359

Sunday, April 17, 2005

Don't pencil in defensive pick so fast

Bengals could draft offensive player No. 1 third year in row

By Mark Curnutte

Enquirer staff writer

For a coach known as a defensive guru, Marvin Lewis sure likes offense.

The first three draft picks of his head coaching tenure with the Bengals in 2003 were offensive players.

The Bengals' first pick in the 2004 draft was another offensive player, running back Chris Perry.

And despite apparent defensive holes to fill heading into the this season, the Bengals' first pick at next weekend's draft again might be an offensive player.

The Bengals' 17th overall pick in the first round could be used on offensive tackles Alex Barron of Florida State or Jammal Brown of Oklahoma. The Bengals might take tight end Heath Miller of Virginia. It could be a wide receiver the likes of Oklahoma's Mark Clayton or South Carolina's Troy Williamson, who might be available in the middle of the first round.

"We need to score more touchdowns," Lewis said the other day. Then he repeated himself. "We need to score more touchdowns."

Though Lewis is a defensive-oriented coach, he knows the value of an offense's ability to control possession time.

When the Bengals' offense has the ball more often than not, the exposure of the Bengals' defense is limited. In fact, in Lewis' two seasons as coach, the Bengals are 11-5 when they have an advantage in possession time.

Last season, the Bengals had a scoring advantage, 374-372, for the first time since 1996.

Lewis also insists that the team's defensive tackles are not a weakness. He challenged reporters last week to name a long run given up by the Bengals that went through the middle of the line.

He said other defenders were in position in the hole and missed tackles.

But the defensive line, linebackers and secondary, especially strong safeties - all of the defense, for that matter - remain possible positions where the Bengals could draft.

About the only positions off the chart are quarterback and running back, where the Bengals are committed contractually to Carson Palmer, Rudi Johnson and Chris Perry for many years.

Center is a position the Bengals likely will address late in the first day - Round 3 - or on the second day, Rounds 4-7.

They are expected to re-sign Rich Braham to a one-year contract. Lewis also likes backup Larry Moore, a center-guard who signed last year as a free agent.

"We've got Larry there, who I've got a lot of confidence in," Lewis said.

""We have the opportunity to sign (Braham) back. We continue to look to draft a young interior offensive lineman who can get it done in there. It's one of the areas in the NFL where you don't need the guy on the first day.

The Bengals did entertain Mississippi center Chris Spencer on a pre-draft visit. They've also had in Nebraska center Richie Incognito, who has suffered some spring injuries and might not be ready for the start of training camp.

After drafting 20 players in the past two years, and restocking the roster with free agents, Lewis said the Bengals are not desperate to find immediate starters in the 2005 draft.

"I know our guys inside and out and how we're able to deal with stress," he said.

The Bengals might trade down from No. 17 in the first round in order to acquire more picks later on.

Looking toward the draft, Lewis said, "Not every player at every position fits what we're looking for. We're trying to hone in on who makes us better and for a long time. We've got guys here for two, three, four, five years. We're not graduating guys. We can look long range. There's not necessarily an opening."

[BengalPappaw]

What I found interesting on Bengals.com was a comment by Bratkowski.

"Does this guy at this position help us more than this guy at this position, and then we rank them. We do that pretty much for the first two rounds.”

That means the BEST ATHLETE AVAILABLE is ranked by how much he HELPS the Bengals.

Sounds to me like ML has said -- we want to keep upgrading ourselves at all positions.

The Bengals are looking at players that would give us an upgrade.

So, one of questions in my foggy mind is:

Does David Pollack give us a bigger upgrade at DE over Clemons, and Geathers than

Mark Clayton gives at WR over Warrick and Washington?

OR

Does Thomas Davis gives us a bigger upgrade at SS than does Clayton at WR or Pollack at DE or Spencer at C?

[HoosierCat]

If the bengals do go offense in the first round, my money would be on Chris Spencer. But, absent a trade down to later in the first, I still think it's unlikely.

[BengalsDieHard1]

My money is on trading down, not once, but twice. Picking up two extra third round picks. Then, with the 27th pick of the draft, the Cincinnati Bengals pick....................................................David Pollack!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[jjakq27]

http://www.bengals.com/press/news.asp?iCur...=0&news_id=2844

Drafting defensively?

4/17/2005 - 4-17-05, 7:45 a.m.

Just some thoughts wafting around on the winds of a draft with six days to go:

How set is the Bengals’ offense? You can see a very real scenario at the Bengals’ pick at No. 17 in which they pass by what they feel is clearly the best offensive player left on the board for the first time since Randy Moss was sitting there in 1998.

The scouts do so much of the key work in the draft when they do the first checking of players early in their college careers and then during the actual season of their last year in school. But the last checking they do, otherwise known as cross-checking, can be just as big.

With the number of defensive ends that look like they have to make the transition to linebacker in the pros, what do the Bengals have to do to avoid making the same mistake they made in 1997 when they drafted Florida State defensive end Reinard Wilson with the 14th pick?

The separation between a first-round player and a second-round player in this draft is so small that nobody knows much of what is going to happen. But one thing you do know is that a player they didn’t think was going to be there at No. 17 will be.

Remember ’98 when the Bengals had two first-round picks courtesy of the Dan Wilkinson trade? Barely had they got done introducing Auburn linebacker Takeo Spikes with the 13th pick that they made a call on the 17th.

Legend has it that Bengals President Mike Brown and offensive assistant John Garrett were about the only people in the room pushing Moss, the combustible but brilliant receiver from Marshall. Head coach Bruce Coslet, and deservedly so, was concerned about what that would do to an already tinderbox situation at receiver. The club ended up missing out on a Hall of Famer (and half the league is in that line), but also made a very solid long-haul pick in North Carolina linebacker Brian Simmons.

Since then, it’s been quarterback Akili Smith over cornerback Champ Bailey in 1999, wide receiver Peter Warrick over Florida State defensive tackle Corey Simon in 2000, left tackle Levi Jones over cornerback Phillip Buchanon in 2002, quarterback Carson Palmer over cornerback Terence Newman in 2003, and running back Chris Perry over cornerback Chris Gamble in 2004.

In ’01, there really wasn’t a dominant offensive player at the No. 4 pick before the Bengals took Missouri defensive end Justin Smith, and the talk of Florida offensive tackle Kenyatta Walker never got very far.

Now, in 2005, you could conceivably have the top running back left on the board (Auburn’s Cadillac Williams), or the top tackle (Oklahoma’s Jammal Brown), or the top receiver (Oklahoma’s Mark Clayton), and the Bengals still go defense.

But none of those guys would come in and start, which is saying some things. Two, actually. This offense is now veteran enough and good enough to win 10-11 games. And it’s time for a defensive first-rounder.

Yes, head coach Marvin Lewis did say last week that they have the luxury of selecting a guy and taking one or even two years to work him into the lineup. But until some defensive players get plucked before the Bengals think they’re going to be plucked, it’s just hard to imagine No. 17 not being devoted to defense.

CROSS-CHECKING: Maybe the most important part of scouting is cross-checking, that second look by another set of eyes. The heavy lifting of the college season has already been done by the scouts heading off into their sections of the country: Paul Brown, Jim Lippincott, Greg Seamon, and Bill and Duke Tobin. Now after February’s NFL scouting combine, one of them may head out to look at a player that has already been graded and that they haven’t seen.

“You’ve got a scout, a coordinator, a position coach,” says Lewis of the three guys that will always look at one player. “You could have a cross check from another scout, and then there’s me, so you’ve got four or five different people who have looked at the guy and you get a feel.”

Cross checking can also be done at the coaching level. Offensive coordinator Bob Bratkowski says when Lewis arrived before the 2003 draft, he wanted him to come up with a list of the top 30 offensive players. He’s also got defensive coordinator Chuck Bresnahan doing it.

“I took it a step further,” Bratkowski said. “Let’s put the top 30 together and then let’s cross-compare the top guys ourselves. Compare apples and oranges. Does this guy at this position help us more than this guy at this position, and then we rank them. We do that pretty much for the first two rounds.”

Lewis likes the idea of, say, offensive line coach Paul Alexander maybe bringing up a point to Bratkowski that hadn’t been raised before at any position.

“The (staff) gets together and they just go back through it and they see something maybe you didn’t see the first time through on a guy you were already grading. Maybe Bob brings up a point, ‘This is why I didn’t quite grade that guy that high,’ and maybe Paul does or doesn’t see it, and the other guys look at it and they discuss it.”

It’s not a final decision because you also have scouts involved before it goes to the front of the room and Lewis and Bengals president Mike Brown.

“It gives Marvin, it gives Mike the best input we can give,” Bratkowski said, “It gives them our best analysis, and then they can make their decision.”

HYBRID OR PROJECTION?: If you like a guy in this draft in the first round who played defensive end and now has to play linebacker in the pros, you call him a “hybrid.” If you don’t like him, you call him a “projection,” and who wants to take a projection in the first round?

Besides how the top ten is going to play out (where there look to be no projections), that is the No. 1 question of this first round. Are guys like Maryland’s Shawne Merriman, Troy State’s Demarcus Ware, and Georgia’s David Pollack able to make transition? Once upon a time in Baltimore, Lewis thought Florida’s Peter Boulware was able to do it and the Ravens got a Pro Bowl guy with a projection as high as the fourth pick.

But when 10 picks later the Bengals tried to turn Boulware’s sackmaster on the other side of the Seminoles’ line _Wilson_ into a 3-4 backer, it was a disaster when they found out he couldn’t make the adjustment athletically or mentally. They found out he was only a rush end and after six seasons of just 24 sacks, he didn’t make Lewis’ roster.

If the Bengals are thinking about any of the hybrids-projections, they have to be satisfied the guy can think on his feet and be able to back pedal and play in space. Even though there are no defensive coaches around from that ’97 draft, the scouts are still here. So there is some institutional memory as they no doubt discuss the pros and cons making that kind of transition.

[schweinhart]

Lewis also insists that the team's defensive tackles are not a weakness. He challenged reporters last week to name a long run given up by the Bengals that went through the middle of the line.

If they're not a weakness, why sign a FA this year and add a waiver wire claim and an out-of-work DT midway through last season.

The DTs are a weakness and it sure didn't help that none were drafted until the 4th last year and Tony Williams somehow managed to find his way onto the roster w/o any FA pickups to take his place.

Hopefully, that changes this year because the DTs got to penetrate vs. run, shed blocks a whole helluva better, and not get washed out so much.

As for a long run, none was longer than Jamal's 70+ TD run. IIRC that run was cut back inside of Justin where a DT should've been but wasn't. And K2 tripped over Justin. But there were other runs that went straight up the gut that could've been big runs, like a couple runs Droughns had on MNF. If Madieu ain't there to hang on, forget it because the DTs were nowhere in sight.

[BengalszoneBilly]

But there were other runs that went straight up the gut that could've been big runs, like a couple runs Droughns had on MNF. If Madieu ain't there to hang on, forget it because the DTs were nowhere in sight.

That's the reason I wasn't too thrilled about Cleveland picking him up! I do not relish the thought of seeing him two times a year!

[AGrizzlyBaer]

But there were other runs that went straight up the gut that could've been big runs, like a couple runs Droughns had on MNF. If Madieu ain't there to hang on, forget it because the DTs were nowhere in sight.

That's the reason I wasn't too thrilled about Cleveland picking him up! I do not relish the thought of seeing him two times a year!

oh come on he is another system back coming out of denver. just like orlandis gary, or even clinton portis. lets see if he can do it oustide of denver.

[The_Next_Big_Thing]

If they're not a weakness, why sign a FA this year and add a waiver wire claim and an out-of-work DT midway through last season.

Why sign a FA this year? To replace the FA we let go, Tony Williams. Are you that dumb?

Why add waiver wire claims midway through last season? WERE YOU WATCHING BENGALS FOOTBALL!?! Tony Williams was out, Mathias Askew was out, Langston Moore was injured. We picked up Shaun Smith, who got injured. We picked up Terrance Martin, and Moore came back...

I can't believe people can miss the totally obvious.

[schweinhart]

If they're not a weakness, why sign a FA this year and add a waiver wire claim and an out-of-work DT midway through last season.

Why sign a FA this year? To replace the FA we let go, Tony Williams. Are you that dumb?

Why add waiver wire claims midway through last season? WERE YOU WATCHING BENGALS FOOTBALL!?! Tony Williams was out, Mathias Askew was out, Langston Moore was injured. We picked up Shaun Smith, who got injured. We picked up Terrance Martin, and Moore came back...

I can't believe people can miss the totally obvious.

All right! The Great Big Idiot is back

You sure are a glutton for punishment.

Be sure to correct me if I'm wrong, Oh Great One, but Shaun Smith and Terrance Martin were both signed before Moore was injured.

Sure, Tony Williams was out and the Bryan Robinson spot fills a roster spot. You might be enough of an idiot to claim that Williams would have been re-signed had he not been injured but the point there is a free agent DT signing this year shows the weakness of the DT REGARDLESS of Tony Williams because the other DTs aren't quality enough to start -- including Moore.

[TippCityRick]

Lewis also insists that the team's defensive tackles are not a weakness. He challenged reporters last week to name a long run given up by the Bengals that went through the middle of the line.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Marvin, do you remember Jamal Lewis running for 75 big ones right up our gut in 2003? I do. It was the exclamation point on a dissapointing home loss in the first half of the season. I remember it well.

[HairOnFire]

Lewis also insists that the team's defensive tackles are not a weakness. He challenged reporters last week to name a long run given up by the Bengals that went through the middle of the line.

Off the top of my head I'd bring up the first Cleveland game. William Green gashed 'em for a big one when both tackles got twisted and shoved outside while Hardy rushed wide instead of filling the middle. I think Madieu made a TD saving tackle on the play but only after Green had split the middle for huge yardage.

That said, I won't argue Lewis's point very much. I've spent two seasons pointing to one position that is most responsible for the Bengals miserable run defense and it's not an interior position. So please, please, please....draft a replacement for Duane Clemons.

[HairOnFire]

Off the top of my head I'd bring up the first Cleveland game. William Green gashed 'em for a big one when both tackles got twisted and shoved outside while Hardy rushed wide instead of filling the middle. I think Madieu made a TD saving tackle on the play but only after Green had split the middle for huge yardage.

Fuzzy memories? I just checked the game log to be sure. Green's run was said to have gone behind left guard for 26 yards....not quite the huge yardage I thought....but a pretty long run in anyones book. Oh, and it was James who was credited with the TD saving tackle.

Hey, at least I got the "up the middle" thing right.

[schweinhart]

That said, I won't argue Lewis's point very much. I've spent two seasons pointing to one position that is most responsible for the Bengals miserable run defense and it's not an interior position. So please, please, please....draft a replacement for Duane Clemons.

No doubt Clemons at LDE is a liability vs. run outside due to his lack of contain and backfield penetration. I believe Jumpy Jr showed he's a marked improvement.

I still see problems w/ the D-line overall vs. run based on the preference for scheme over personnell and unrealistic expectations of performance for the players that have been brought in since ML took over.

That said, maybe Thornton will have a career year if he really is shifted to RDT, which should lessen the double teams on him. They ran him there some late last year and hopefully more of that's in store because Thornton should get freer for tackles for loss and some brutal back side hits if he's stunting with Justin.

[CTBengalsFan]

I think Madieu made a TD saving tackle on the play but only after Green had split the middle for huge yardage.

If I remember correctly, that was Ratliff. Not to correct, just to see if I remember correctly.