7 Round Draft Guru Mock

[schweinhart]

The Draft Guru 7 Rd Mock has got the Bengals with:

1. Erasmus James

2. Chris Spencer

3. Earnest Shazor

4. Kirk Morrison

5. Dante Ridgeway

6. Victor Sesay

7. Ryan Grant

Great balance on both sides of ball with potential impact players at every position this year and beyond.

Only rub I got is Stanley Wilson Jr going the pick after Shazor...I'd much rather see Wilson in stripes than Shazor.

Hopefully, the rest will be there where you gottem.

I got James gone at 18 (James and Davis reversed from what you got ), Spencer at 43 ahead of Bengals at 48, Shazor dropped to 89 6 picks after Bengals in 3rd, Morrison gone in 1st half of 3rd rd, Ridgeway gone in 1st half of 4th, Sesay gone in bottom of 5th, and Ryan Grant gone in supplemental pick at bottom of 6th.

[XPetey]

I like this draft, although (I can't remember) I would rather have Thomas Davis than James, which means then Shazor wouldn't be picked and maybe we take Stanley Wilson. I'm really high in Chris Spencer also.

:player: who dey :player:

[Whur CHad At?]

I think we take Crowder round 2, and a center later on. I see a center in the 3rd, or 2 day. We need to address the LB postion on the first day because it is one of the weakest parts in the drafts and we have to get our guy early. I like Erasmus James, getting him, Crowder, Shazor or Wilson would be an very good first day! :player:

[BengalPappaw]

I'd take that draft!!!!

I hope the Bengals do as well as our "guru".

I would still like Pollack over James, but would not complain with James. He's much better than Spears.

[thepudgester]

I still think our 1st rounder will be Mark Clayton, I mean Marvin loves the guy and he probably realizes that the other positions can be put off until 2nd-3rd rd. Sure WR is not our biggest need but Marvin does like the guy and if James doesnt fall to us I think we take Clayton. (Carlos Rogers or Adam Jones if they fall) I mean yea Thomas Davis is good but Shazor in the 3rd would still be good (or Nicholson), In the 2nd we gotta see who falls to us, Spencer is a good option, but so are Mike Patterson, Justin Tuck, Dan Cody,Anttaj Hawthorne, Daryl Blackstock, Kevin Burnett, Odell Thurman, Luis Castillo, Matt Roth, Barrett Ruud,Brodney Pool, Bryant mcFadden, Corey Webster, Dave Baas, Channing Crowder, Roddy White, reggie Brown, Matt Jones. Someone is gonna be there, atleast 1 of those guys who I would love to have. If I were the bengals i'd make a deal with Philly to get their 1st and 2nd (maybe for our 1st and 3rd/4th, whatever we could do) Thats where all the value is. This is going to be a fun draft. If we did that deal with Philly this is what i think our draft would look like (first day):

1. Heath Miller

2a. Chris Spencer

2b. Anttaj Hawthorne

3. Ernest Shazor

.....ahhh so many possibilies......

[Ickeyshuffler]

If we did that deal with Philly this is what i think our draft would look like (first day):

1. Heath Miller

2a. Chris Spencer

2b. Anttaj Hawthorne

3. Ernest Shazor

.....ahhh so many possibilies......

I'd love to do that deal with Philly...That would give us a shot at all my favorite four: justin tuck, channing crowder/odell thurman, chris spencer, ernest shazor

[schweinhart]

Unless Shazor can play SS the way ML wants, I don't know that the Bengals need another undersized OLB no matter what rd.

[TippCityRick]

I agree on Shazor, and it's why I don't see us taking either Davis or Shazor in this draft. Neither is the ball hawk that ML covets.

[chrishcovga]

I have absolutely no doubt that Philly will trade up, that's why I had Cincy' trading down to them in a past mock. The real question is, where will Philly trade up to..??

We know it's going to depend on who's still there.

I don't see Cincy' trading down if Derrick Johnson is still there. - He seems to me to be the best option at staying at # 17, Although I think Carlos Rogers is the best overall corneback, I'd be willing to trade down.

* I've read 2 other rumors about Seattle and the Jets already positioning themselves to move up to # 17 if "player-such and such" is there. - Also heard that both teams would be willing to part with 2nd rounders, trade most likely to happen is the Jets moving up to take Rogers if he fell to 17, or Seattle offering their 2nd to grab E. James cause they really want a pass rusher.

Hopefully there will be some pre draft maneuvering that will help solve this mystery!

[Indycat]

* I've read 2 other rumors about Seattle and the Jets already positioning themselves to move up to # 17 if "player-such and such" is there. - Also heard that both teams would be willing to part with 2nd rounders, trade most likely to happen is the Jets moving up to take Rogers if he fell to 17, or Seattle offering their 2nd to grab E. James cause they really want a pass rusher.

Sounds like good reading could you provide a link to these rumors?

[thepudgester]

I dont think there will be any PRE-draft trades for the bengals. Also, Derrick Johnson is WAY too good to fall to 17, word is there is no way hes falling past 10 let alone 17, i mean they said the same thing about Phillip Buchanon, Vince Wilfork, Will Smith and Kenechi Udeze. But Johnson's different, he's a possible #2 or 3 pick. Dallas and the Texans arent likely to pass on him either. Rogers could fall if K.C.'s deal for Patrick Surtain happens. If we stay at 17 I say Mark Clayton, a fast, quick big play threat to line up across from Chad. Height doesnt matter as much as people say, Brandon Stokely, Santana Moss, Laverneus Coles, Marvin Harrison, Derrick Mason. Clayton looks better than all of those guys did coming out of college. Thomas Davis is another guy I like, a big run-stuffing safety, even if he is an OLB he's still a first round prospect there too. Also David Pollack seems like a Marvin guy, and Erasmus James is just flat-out talented. If someone falls trade down and pick up an extra day 1 pick up, preferably round 2. Look out for the Texans, If Williamson is on the board they'll most likely take him, then may trade up with us to acquire a player such as Shawne Merrimen (not likely to fall), Marcus Spears or Demarcus Ware. They have the 47th,73rd and 78th pick so this could be interesting.

[chrishcovga]

* I've read 2 other rumors about Seattle and the Jets already positioning themselves to move up to # 17 if  "player-such and such" is there. - Also heard that both teams would be willing to part with 2nd rounders, trade most likely to happen is the Jets moving up to take Rogers if he fell to 17, or Seattle offering their 2nd to grab E. James cause they really want a pass rusher.

Sounds like good reading could you provide a link to these rumors?

I never reveal my sources - It's called freedom of the Press , or atleast in this case, I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you !

[TJJackson]

I was selected about 2 weeks ago to represent the Bengals in the final mock draft held at www.nflfans.com. The guy running the site picked fans on his site who he felt had best demonstrated knowledge of their team's drafting style and intent, so I was very honored to be picked.

The draft was run in segments - 1-2 Monday, 3-4 Tuesday, 5-6 Wednesday, and 7th just tonight. It is important to note that trades were not permitted in this particular mock.

The mock can be read in it's entirety at http://www.nflfans.com/draft/staticpages/i...050411145644649

That said, here were my picks and the reasoning. Please read the excellent accompanying profiles from NFLCountdown.com for the basic supporting info, albeit please note this was not my only source for player info.

1. WR Troy Williamson

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerpro...williamson.html

Yeah, I know. Not a defensive player, and not even a top need. The Chiefs broke my heart by taking David Pollack (who both Dave Lapham and Jerry Jones believe the Bengals should pick if they stay at 17) just two picks ahead of me, and then the Saints of course took the other Bulldog we covet, Thomas Davis. The top rated player left was - you guessed it, a running back: Carnell "Cadillac" Williams. *laff* No way we take yet another RB. The somewhat overrated Adam "Pac Man" Jones was also available, but I felt CB was a need to be addressed in later rounds, if at all, in this draft. I am of the camp, like Lapham and Jerry Jones, who believe that Erasmus James is going to spend most of his NFL career on IR, so he wasn't even a consideration. Travis Johnson? I felt that Matthias Askew has every bit as much potential and we need to give him his shot this year. Heath Miller? Health concerns again, plus the fact that his speed is unknown. I should add here that for me, with the money spent on early round picks, durability is a PREMIUM and required quality. Finally, Brodney Pool was just too much of a reach. In a sense, I arrived at this pick by elimination - he was simply the best pick available ( a top ten pick in many mock drafts), and given what I had heard of Warrick's health, probably a good pickup anyway. It also fits the Marvin model - speed, speed, and more speed. I know the Bengals also want tall wideouts from here on out.

2) C Chris Spencer

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerpro...risspencer.html

Pretty much the consensus pick among Cincinnati fans in round 2. Called "the best offensive lineman in the draft" by The Sporting News analyst Dan Pompei, and in my mind the very best Center available. Outstanding football smarts, strength, speed, and athleticism; and is able to play both guard spots as well. I also felt he'd be starting ahead of the venerable Rich Braham by the end of 2005. Still, I thought - 2 offensive picks at the top of the draft for a team desperate for defense? Ah well. If I had it to do over again, I'd have gone with a defensive player - a DE or LB - instead, and taken the needed Center in round 3 or 4.

3) ILB Adam Seward.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerpro...adamseward.html

A late second rounder on many draft boards, albeit not as heralded at Barrett Ruud, Odell Thurman, or Channing Crowder. His description runs along the lines of "fiery, intense, team leader, tough, very strong, productive". It helps that his Combine results indicate he is not only one of the strongest ILBs in this draft, but also one of the fastest.

4) DT Sione Pouha

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerpro...sionepouha.html

At this point, I really wanted a DE or S, but when it came to my pick, I felt that the player that would best improve the Bengals of those remaining was this huge and brutishly strong defensive tackle from Utah. Yes, he's a little older than your typical draftee, having fulfilled his Mormon missionary time, but I felt this was a further demonstration of good character on his part. Every review of him I read raved about his strength and quickness, as well as his leadership qualities and character. Clearly, this was/is a Marvin guy who I felt could make an impact this year. Now, all that said - check out the pick made by - yep, those darned Chiefs again - Sensabaugh was the guy I was hoping to snag with this pick.

5) S Hamza Abdullah

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerpro...zaabdullah.html

Here, I am most certainly guilty of just a bit of reaching. Maybe a lot. In any case, safety after safety I had slotted to pick each round had fallen just ahead of my pick. The safety I had slotted for just such an emergency - the little known Marviell Underwood, valued in the late 5th to 6th rounds on most boards - had gone much earlier than he should to the Buccaneers in round 4. So this guy was the one remaining guy with sub 4.5 speed (although many sites, including ESPN, are reporting a much slower speed than his official Pro day timing), decent size, and good intangibles. Again, a leader. Another "Marvin" guy. I felt I might be able to get him in round 6, but I had though that a safety would drop to me in rounds 3 and 4 and they hadn't lasted, so I decided enough was enough, and picked him.

6) TE Adam Bergen

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerpro...adambergen.html

For me, this late in the draft, you are looking for guys who despite one or more serious shortcomings have an excellent chance to either a) improve you at their position in due time or have great measurables but lack experience or c) can improve your special teams. it just so happened that I felt this guy could do all three. Here is an experienced Tight End, clearly a position of need for the Bengals, with top flight TE speed and great hands, high production, and very good size/speed ratio. His only real minus was that he went to a small school, but so have many other great NFL players, so I didn't hold that against him too much. Rated as one of the top sleepers in the draft. I was thrilled to have him fall to the Bengals at this spot.

7) OLB Nick Speegle

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerpro...ickspeegle.html

It was either OLB, OT, or CB with this final pick, and it came down to the fact that the best prospect of those available at these three positions was a OLB. I honestly hadn't heard of this guy until I read that the Bengals had gone to see him work out. Again, this late, looking for guys with great measurables who can work their way into a starting spot or who have the athletic ability to make special team contributions. Well, at 6'5" 242 lbs and with a 4.5 40, this fellow certainly fit the bill at yet another position of need for the Bengals. Great character and leadership qualities as well, another "Marvin" type of guy.

Bottom line: tried to improve overall team speed, athleticism, and character mix at positions of need and where depth was called for. I feel I was for the most part pretty successful. Main regret was that I went offense in round 1, albeit the players I wanted and expected to be available at that pick were gone by 17.

[schweinhart]

Wouldn't complain w/ them picks, TJ.

Good shot at those players being their for Bengals to pick, too.

But Spencer at 48 looks less likely by the day.

[TJJackson]

Well, losing Spencer isn't as big a deal as I had once thought, for a few reasons

1) Baas might be available, and he's a rated C as well.

2) Plenty of good defensive talent should be available at 48. OUr defense could use the pick, surely :-)

3) Wilkerson should be around at 3, maybe even 4, and is really every bit as good as Spencer (and more experienced) in my book.

4) There are about 4-5 other Cs with the smarts and ability to start for the Bengals by year's end, and should be able to get one of these second day. Pick two of them to be sure, one should stick and the other can play Guard.

[schweinhart]

4) There are about 4-5 other Cs with the smarts and ability to start for the Bengals by year's end, and should be able to get one of these second day. Pick two of them to be sure, one should stick and the other can play Guard.

There are several Day 2 centers and it might be the course if Bengals don't trade down for Baas or Spencer and neither turns up at 48. Wilkerson remains a risk because of the torn patella tendon but he very well could be worth a shot in the 4th.

I liked what I saw of Scott Mrzuckowski. He's money w/ the snap out of shotgun but didn't snap much under center. Solid pass protector, though, w/ good mobility.

Rob Hunt was a surprise at the combine and has the frame to add weight. He's got plenty of speed and strength. Dylan Gandy looked good for Texas Tech -- another solid pass protector.

And there's others like Junius Coston, Richie Incognito, Eric Ghiacuic, Chris Myers...

But there was some Day 2 depth like that last year too and no center got picked.

[TJJackson]

*shrug*

He was there at 48 in this particular draft :-)

Of course, Cadillac Williams was available at 18, and Pac Man Jones at 19, so.....:-)

Everything I read says Wilkerson will be OK by training camp, and that's all I care about, really. Getting to know Carson can be done without the pads on, as well.

I guess what I am saying is that at one time, I thought it'd be the end of the world if the Bengals couldn't get Chris Spencer. I changed my mind :-) Of those you mentioned, Incognito (first round talent with 5th round anger mgmt issues) and Rob Hunt are my two top second day alternatives. I honestly don't think it'd be a terrible dropoff if we got these two versus Spencer, and I know we could really use the 2nd round pick on a top notch defensive player.

[redsfan2510]

Mark my words if we draft James,people will start calling us the Bungles again. He has a real bad hip that could end his career on any play. Its the same injury Bo Jackson had; and we saw how fast his career was over. We need a (healthy) player. REDSFAN2510

[cover2]

TJ:

I like your picks, writing and analysis very well done. You are one of the best writers on this board.

Thanks,

cover2

[Bobcat Bengal]

Ha, for all this 'talk' about this being a weak draft class with no true number one overall, teams sure are falling over themselves to make trades huh?

[BengalPappaw]

Mark my words if we draft James,people will start calling us the Bungles again. He has a real bad hip that could end his career on any play. Its the same injury Bo Jackson had; and we saw how fast his career was over. We need a (healthy) player.

The first time I heard this was on a Football Mock draft show a week or two ago. The analyst called it a "dead hip" injury. UGHH!!

This does NOT sound good.

I WANT DAVID POLLACK or MARK CLAYTON

[TJJackson]

Either of those two would be good, but I'd add Thomas Davis to that list :-)

Of course, trading down - with the understanding this year: NO FREAKIN RBs on Day 1 - is another fave of mine, if ML can pull it off.

[chrishcovga]

Mark my words if we draft James,people will start calling us the Bungles again. He has a real bad hip that could end his career on any play. Its the same injury Bo Jackson had; and we saw how fast his career was over. We need a (healthy) player.

The first time I heard this was on a Football Mock draft show a week or two ago. The analyst called it a "dead hip" injury. UGHH!!

This does NOT sound good.

I WANT DAVID POLLACK or MARK CLAYTON

Dead Hip ???

If Erasmus James was as damaged as you guys believe, he would fall on everyone's board. He would not and I repeat, NOT be considered a day one selection let alone a first rounder.

Erasmus' injured hip was on a fluke play in a spring game, he was medically cleared to play with no future problems . It was a partial dislocation. He didn't have hip replacement surgery. No Cement replacements etc. etc.

* In case you didn't know, the Hip is the largest ball and socket joint in the body. It's surrounded by an extreme amount of muscles, tendons, supported by muscles from the groin, buttocks, and lower back and stomach.

" A young athletic person would have little to no difficulty healing and returning to full health from such an injury and the success rate, is higher than similiar procedures done on areas like the Shoulder ( another ball and socket joint ). " - Dr. William Craven M.D. Orthopaedic - Alliance Orthopaedics - Atlanta, Ga.

[BengalPappaw]

Mark my words if we draft James,people will start calling us the Bungles again. He has a real bad hip that could end his career on any play. Its the same injury Bo Jackson had; and we saw how fast his career was over. We need a (healthy) player.

The first time I heard this was on a Football Mock draft show a week or two ago. The analyst called it a "dead hip" injury. UGHH!!

This does NOT sound good.

I WANT DAVID POLLACK or MARK CLAYTON

Dead Hip ???

If Erasmus James was as damaged as you guys believe, he would fall on everyone's board. He would not and I repeat, NOT be considered a day one selection let alone a first rounder.

Erasmus' injured hip was on a fluke play in a spring game, he was medically cleared to play with no future problems . It was a partial dislocation. He didn't have hip replacement surgery. No Cement replacements etc. etc.

* In case you didn't know, the Hip is the largest ball and socket joint in the body. It's surrounded by an extreme amount of muscles, tendons, supported by muscles from the groin, buttocks, and lower back and stomach.

" A young athletic person would have little to no difficulty healing and returning to full health from such an injury and the success rate, is higher than similiar procedures done on areas like the Shoulder ( another ball and socket joint ). " - Dr. William Craven M.D. Orthopaedic - Alliance Orthopaedics - Atlanta, Ga.

I hope you are right about the lack of medical concern about James.

It makes sense that if it were serious we would have heard more about it.

THANKS for input.

[TJJackson]

That aside, Chris, which of the two is in your opinion the better run stopper: Pollack or James? Given the makeup of our division, while I like guys who can do both, I favor those who are run stoppers over those that are pass rushers.

I am genuinely interested in your opinion, tho it might seem I am expecting Pollack as the answer.

Oh, and let me add that both Jerry Jones and Dave Lapham both expressed grave concern over Erasmus' health situation, for now and for the perceived future.