Heath Miller at 17?

[bnglsfan26]

I'm interested to hear what you guys think about this? It seems like a big red-zone target like Miller would do wonders for young Palmer, and really help push Cincinnati's young offense over the cusp next year.

You guys have likely watched a great deal more Bengals football than I have, and I'd like your thoughts and evaluations on Matt Schobel and Tony Stewart. It seems like neither really is panning out, and Reggie Kelly is a blocking TE.

Just looking for some input on the subject, as I have heard very little about Marvin Lewis and Heath Miller.

[BengalPappaw]

Miller reminds me of a TE that came out several years ago -- the word was the he caught balls well in a crowd -- Thats because he had to -- he can't out run anyone.

IMO Miller looks like a decent TE, but not worth a 1st round pick. He doesn't break enough tackles. He looks like another of what we already have.

[Whur CHad At?]

Simple answer. NO.

[turningpoint]

yeah no....

Why not draft that ARK kansas WR/TE/QB instead...

He reminds me of Plaxico Burris.

[membengal]

Miller at 17? No.

Miller at #48? If he is somehow there, sure.

Miller with an extra pick picked up early in the second round? Fine.

But not at 17.

[Bobcat Bengal]

yeah no....

Why not draft that ARK kansas WR/TE/QB instead...

He reminds me of Plaxico Burris.

I don't like Plaxico at all.

Being compared to him is not a good thing in my book.

[vman1186]

No

[schweinhart]

No with a capital SPORTS HERNIA.

[bengalindian]

Definitely not....tight end isn't a huge part of the offense anyway, and I'm all for Matt Jones, he could definitely be a weapon in the offense, and it would allow the bengals to spend their first pick on defense.

[Indycat]

Yes, Heath Miller is a good pick at 17

Last year there were way too many deep or dump plays on offense. There was no consistent 8-12 yard option. A quality TE will provide that option and Heath Miller is a quality TE.

excerpts from Scout Inc. ... Has rare hands and overall ball skills for a TE. Might have the most reliable hands of any TE and WR in this draft. ... Does an excellent job of finding windows for his quarterback. Has a rare knack for finding soft spots

versus zone coverage. Is a crisp and sharp route runner that consistently gains separation versus man-to-man coverage. ... from 2002-'04, he started every game ... He was the leading receiver in the nation among tight ends as a sophomore in 2003 with 70 receptions for 835 yards

excerpts from Huddle Report ... He has leadership qualities and makes the players around him better. ... He is a franchise impact player with the talent and character to carry his team. ... Heath is a top ten talent and will get on the field and impact in his first year. ... In the red zone alone in his rookie year, he is good for 5 or 6 TD’s because of his WR skills.

Every mock draft I've seen has him going in the first round.

All that being said, what I'd like to see is a trade down with Seattle (they have 2 3rds and 2 4ths) get an extra 3rd and 4th and pick Heath with the 23 pick.

[chrishcovga]

I just don't think that Heath Miller athleticism is the equivalent of a first round talent. There are hundreds of Tight ends that can " catch everything thrown at them " , but what separates Pro Bowl Tight ends to what we already have on the roster is the ability to get open on a regular basis! Miller has average speed at best, which basically means he's slower than most linebackers. He's an average blocker at best, but the real question to Millers value is his role in our offense.

* We all know that Bob Bratkowski is a pass happy freak. He loves to create matchup problems with 3 - wide sets and when a tight end is on the field in those situations, they seldom run routes, they usually stay in to " Max-Protect " especially with high blitzing teams like the Ravens and Steelers.

- I think Geoff Hobson may have said it best, " The Cincinnati Bengals didn't miss the playoffs the last two seasons because of poor tight end play". We need to trade down and get as many defensive draft picks for those mid rounds like we did last year.

[bnglsfan26]

honestly, if we're comparing him to players, he reminds me of emmitt smith, in terms of flashiness. I saw Miller play at an FSU game last yaer, and he was completely unstoppable. They had Bryant McFadden (a projected 2nd round pick) as well a linebacker on him for underneath, and he consistantly caught passes of around 10 yards. He never separated from the pack, because like you said, he doesn't have that top-end speed. But the thing is, he doesn't need to. You lob the ball his way and it's a guaranteed completion. Florida State completely dominated that game on every angle, but could not stop or even slow down Heath Miller.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=242900052

anyway, I'm just curious because a reliable over the middle to pick up those first down yards and make the clutch catches... seems like the missing element in that offense. And there's a huge drop off after Miller to Alex Smith to the rest of the crowd.

it looks like the Bengals are targeting 2nd and 3rd round safeties and DEs Josh Bullocks, Chris Canty, Justin Tuck, few others), and it sure looks like Jamie Sharper is a lock to land in CIN.

It's not necessarily a need pick, but giving a young QB an extra dimension to attack defenses with could be that extra push to turn Palmer into a Pro Bowl QB next year.

[chrishcovga]

honestly, if we're comparing him to players, he reminds me of emmitt smith, in terms of flashiness. I saw Miller play at an FSU game last yaer, and he was completely unstoppable. They had Bryant McFadden (a projected 2nd round pick) as well a linebacker on him for underneath, and he consistantly caught passes of around 10 yards. He never separated from the pack, because like you said, he doesn't have that top-end speed. But the thing is, he doesn't need to. You lob the ball his way and it's a guaranteed completion. Florida State completely dominated that game on every angle, but could not stop or even slow down Heath Miller.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/boxscore?gameId=242900052

anyway, I'm just curious because a reliable over the middle to pick up those first down yards and make the clutch catches... seems like the missing element in that offense. And there's a huge drop off after Miller to Alex Smith to the rest of the crowd.

it looks like the Bengals are targeting 2nd and 3rd round safeties and DEs Josh Bullocks, Chris Canty, Justin Tuck, few others), and it sure looks like Jamie Sharper is a lock to land in CIN.

It's not necessarily a need pick, but giving a young QB an extra dimension to attack defenses with could be that extra push to turn Palmer into a Pro Bowl QB next year.

Josh Bullocks is a safety.

The gap between Alex Smith and Heath Miller is a lot closer than you think. There is no guarantee that whatever team takes Miller, that' he'll be ready to play by training camp in the first place. Smith may lack speed, but he's very consistent, and has been a playmaker for the Stanford offense. He's a much better blocker than Miller, and while he may not have Millers' hands, he certainly has the advantage in route running skills, that was evident at the combine.

[bnglsfan26]

yeah I guess that was a bit unclear. I said "safeties and DEs Bullocks, etc..."

Smith is going to be a blocking TE in the NFL. He was a blocking TE that was simply the best and only reliable option in a Stanford offense that lacked playmakers. You will not see his stats translate on the pro level. I believe he is the best blocking TE in this year's draft class, and he posesses all the tools to be a successful TE at the next level, but he needs to add a few more pounds first. I don't see him seeing much of the field until at least the 2006 season. Miller on the other hand should make an instant impact and, depending on the offense, probably put up some numbers around the 35/400/3 mark.

[chrishcovga]

35/400/3 may be what we already have on the roster... given certain things..

1. Matt Schobel decides he's going to play with pain.

2. Reggie Kelley figures out, the reason why he's been a bust since the Falcons traded a 1st round pick away in the '99 draft to get him.

11 yards a catch is decent for a tight end, but like I said we have that already on the roster, and I don't agree with you about Alex Smith.

He was a playmaker period. If you're the only guy on an offense a team has to prepare for and you still produce, that something about the player, not the team.

Smith's stats at one time were 55/585/5. He's not refined as a blocker, but more of a pass catcher with his slight build 6'5 245. His greatest asset is probably his ablility to break tackles and run after the catch. He'll probably remind folks of a young Tony McGee.

But here are the Comparisons..

Matt Schobel 21/201/4

Tony Stewart 10/48/1

Reggie Kelly 15/85/0 - I Know dissappointing isn't it.

Other Pass catchers to consider, Adam Bergen Lehigh ( round 4 or 5 )

Garrett Cross California ( round 4 or 5 ), and a player I'm real high on is Victor Sesay TE, Missouri. - Since former basketball players are all the rage, you gotta like Sesay's athleticism.

[bnglsfan26]

I guess the question is, do you think they plan on going more of a Chargers-esque offense, utilizing the TE, or a Rams offense, and completely ignore it? If the latter is the case, they certainly have the pieces together for it.

I'm not Marvin Lewis, so I don't know what he has in mind, but I am certain that a big TE would add something. I still believe Matt Schobel can blossom into an above average TE in this league. I had him on my fantasy team a few years back and he's shown flashes here and there of what he's capable of. Something is just holding him back, and I'm not sure if they've just given up on him, or what....

I just see them aiming to make more of a splash on offense, and working middlerounders in to develop on defense. That seems like what they are shooting at almost, but that first pick really is still a wildcard. I'd like to see them trade down, but I don't see any suitors that would be willing to trade up to 17 for a 2nd rounder

[chrishcovga]

I guess the question is, do you think they plan on going more of a Chargers-esque offense, utilizing the TE, or a Rams offense, and completely ignore it? If the latter is the case, they certainly have the pieces together for it.

I'm not Marvin Lewis, so I don't know what he has in mind, but I am certain that a big TE would add something. I still believe Matt Schobel can blossom into an above average TE in this league. I had him on my fantasy team a few years back and he's shown flashes here and there of what he's capable of. Something is just holding him back, and I'm not sure if they've just given up on him, or what....

I just see them aiming to make more of a splash on offense, and working middlerounders in to develop on defense. That seems like what they are shooting at almost, but that first pick really is still a wildcard. I'd like to see them trade down, but I don't see any suitors that would be willing to trade up to 17 for a 2nd rounder

It's funny that you're asking me the same question that I asked the forum a couple of months back, and that was " How big is the role of our Tight Ends ".

I can't remember the stat, but like 70 % or more of Carson's completions went to the Wide receivers last year, I'd have to think that if we enter the Season with a legitimate 4-head WR committee, and HOPEFULLY a healthy Chris Perry, the Tight End role would diminish even more.

Considering the role of our Tight Ends, and the outlook Brat and Marvin have for Carson's offense, there's no way I see us taking a Tight end on day one unless we're able to trade down and add extra first day picks.

As for Wide receiver depth, Chad and T.J are signed long term. Peter and Kelley Washington are under contract for this year, If a wr is drafted in the first round (Edwards and Williams not withstanding) we're not getting the most out of our first round pick just like last year.

[Whur CHad At?]

if we drafted miller, it would be the worst draft pick ever. He is slow and we do not need another slow tight end. You address in the first round a posisiton of need, or more importance and we will address the D. Heath will be a second round pick at best, i guarntee it.

[schweinhart]

Smith is going to be a blocking TE in the NFL. He was a blocking TE that was simply the best and only reliable option in a Stanford offense that lacked playmakers. You will not see his stats translate on the pro level. I believe he is the best blocking TE in this year's draft class, and he posesses all the tools to be a successful TE at the next level, but he needs to add a few more pounds first. I don't see him seeing much of the field until at least the 2006 season.

Smith is the most complete package at TE in this draft.

Smith 's blocking skills put him above Miller as far as being an all-downs TE. But the dude can flat out run clean routes short, middle, and deep seam plus keep his balance to get up for grabs and catch any ball if it's thrown anywhere near him.

Smith showcased his receiving skills at the Senior Bowl and his production there will serve him well in the draft. I'd rather see Smith picked than Miller if the Bengals go TE Day 1.

But it looks likelier that they'll try to develop Brandon Jacobs as a TE who is versatile enough to be the 3rd and short RB, the backup or starting FB if needed, and Rudi's replacement should Rudi go down.

[bnglsfan26]

We shall see. I don't see Miller dropping to the 2nd round at all, but things happen, and I wouldn't rule it out. Personally, I don't believe either will be a name most fans even recognize in two or three years.

But we'll see. Miller was a great TE at the college level, and Smith was practically beating up on little kids for Stanford, but Miller can still be a productive TE at the pro level, I just don't think it will be more beyond say a Christian Fauria or Ken Dilger. Smith I see adding about 15-20 pounds and being a pure-blocking TE in the NFL. He has fair hands, but he will be subjugated to what he is best at.

[Whur CHad At?]

Ben Troupe fell into the second round, and he was sweet. I wouldn't be suprised if the Cheifs or Colts take Miller #1. I mean if you have looked at their drafts, they have drafted a TE pretty early. Cheifs are so stupid they traded away a 1st rounder last year and picked a TE at their second round choice. Cheifs will probably draft Miller #1, cause they are retarded and they know why their D sucks so bad, same with Colts. So i am done with Heath Miller, he will end up being another Anthony Becht, one good year then you get replaced. Pollack, Crowder or Thurman(if we trade down, plus they are going to address Linebacker 1st second round)

[TJJackson]

I like Heath Miller to the Bengals in scenarios where we trade down significantly, at least 8-10 picks if not more, and pick up 1 or more additional FIRST day picks where we can still get the necessary C and S/DE/LB (pick 2 of the 3) we need right now. Many of the players of value to the Bengals will go late in round 1 or in rounds 2 or 3.

I don't like H Miller at 17. Period.

I'll add that he has won offensive Lineman of the Week awards purely for his blocking, so I have more respect for his blocking abilities than most.

[TJJackson]

Here are the two guys I think the Bengals should be looking at when considering the TE position, and both will be late round selections

Both very good size and speed, not specialists for the most part (ie can block AND catch) and athletic. Just need experience. Perfect late round picks at this spot.

my fave

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerpro...omecollins.html

my second fave

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerpro.../adambergen.htm

http://www.nflfans.com/draft/2005/showplay...y=Adam%20Bergen

[bengalboomer7]

If we draft Heath Miller I will pull out what little hair I have left. This guy isn't a signifigant playmaker at all and wouldn't be much of an upgrade from Schoebel

[TJJackson]

We disagree then.

I see him as an every down TE, has more blocking skills than many give him credit for. However, due to his injury status, I wouldn't touch him at 17.

Were he to fall to 48 - unlikely - I think he'd be a steal here.

Read his profile, note the blocking awards - pay particular attention to theCAREER HIGHLIGHTS: 2004 and CAREER HONORS: 2004. Also note his smarts and character traits.

http://virginiasports.collegesports.com/sp...er_heath00.html