Chris' New Draft Is Out

[bnglsfan26]

I guess what i'm getting at here, is I read something like this:

18 MIN DT Travis Johnson, even after the Vikings have their starting DTs in Kevin Williams and Pat Williams in the middle, and rather than defend it by suggesting "even though Kevin Williams put up 12 sacks as a DT last year, he might be able to switch back to the outside where he played part of his college career at" you say something like:

"In a perfect world like this one, Tice should expect raindrops to become gumdrops and lollypops."

I mean if you're going to make bold predictions, at least back it up with something worth reading.... that's all I'm saying. And if you're going to post a 4-round mock, which you'd need some sort of 2005 NFL Draft Algorithm for, at least don't load it with very late or very early picks....

I guess if your draft is a month old, that's different, but if that's the case, why post it as "new"

[bnglsfan26]

Actually most of us are die hard football fans and really do find it entertaining to look through info. I check the updates on hailredskins every couple of days. Just read my previous post. Make up your own mock and post it. Chris did that in his free time, he didn't get paid for it. And you obviously like football enough to post here

yeah, I follow most of the major NFL team message boards. It's a good source of random information that i wouldn't normally find on mainstream media sites, especially in the offseason.

As for posting my own draft, I've got several, but I'm currently working on a long in-depth one at the moment that will be published on monday. If my opinion is really that critical to your success as a human being though, I can post the first 14 picks so far.

[Bobcat Bengal]

As for posting my own draft, I've got several, but I'm currently working on a long in-depth one at the moment that will be published on monday. If my opinion is really that critical to your success as a human being though, I can post the first 14 picks so far.

yeah, it really is.

PLEASE post what you have so far.

I just think its funny that youre a new jack and you begin your first few posts by slamming our resident Guru.

Nice set of cajones you got there sir.

[bengalboomer7]

I guess his cajones makes up for what he lacks elsewhere

[schweinhart]

2. Miami - Ronnie Brown

Big Miss number one. There are several fallacies at play here. For those of you who missed the Best Column on Blue Chip Runningbacks, Ever, I'm not going to get into why Cedric Benson is the best running back in the draft, but rather why Ronnie Brown won't be the pick here.

The popular reasoning behind selecting Brown with this pick is that his combine numbers suggest that he is the most complete running back in this draft. That's nice, but there are 32 different offenses in the NFL. Ronnie Brown is best suited in a perimeter style offense, and Miami needs a power runner that it can ride for 350 attempts in a season. Brown averaged about a third of that over his career, and is the least effective of the three big backs in north-south running.

There's also reasoning that Saban played in the same conference as Ronnie Brown did and so he knows "first-hand" how Ronnie Brown plays. In four games against LSU, he had 2TDs (both in the same game) and averaged about 60 total yards. That's strikingly similar to what he's averaged per game over his career. It's also strikingly similar to what Travis Minor and Sammy Morris averaged in Miami's backfield last year, and worth only slightly more than Ricky Williams' stats in 2004. Speaking of which, his impending return to the Dolphins all but mitigates this pick being spent on a running back.

This is a fair anaylsis of where Brown stands in relation to Fins...ie...if they got another RB before the draft or plan to pick one up after it, they proly don't draft Brown (or Benson).

Personally, I see Brown having an excellent NFL career as a complete weapon at the postion. He is an all-downs back unlike Benson at this point in his career (but Benson does have some receiving skills to work with).

The combination of speed, power, and receiving skills that Brown has makes him the best RB in the draft. His college stats are gonna be skewed because he split time unlike Benson who has logged an awful lot of carries over his college career.

If the Fins don't intend to get an RB outside of the draft, I'd say they take Brown unless they opt WR and take Edwards. The new OC in Miami isn't one to crutch on a 350-carry runner.

A defensive pick by the Fins isn't out of the question but for LB I'm liking the Fins to opt for one in the 3rd...either Michael Boley if they think he's big enough and can cover well enough or Robert McCune.

[bnglsfan26]

Personally, I see Brown having an excellent NFL career as a complete weapon at the postion. He is an all-downs back unlike Benson at this point in his career (but Benson does have some receiving skills to work with).

He is certainly very fragile at this point. He has all the tools to succeed, but he should not be expected to immediately start and carry a full workload. He's simply not ready for one. If he's phased in an offense like Minnesota's, I see him being very successful, but he will definitely be a developmental product of the system. He would be a great fit in Tampa Bay, Minnesota, or Arizona. The Dolphins, Browns, Bears, and Titans all run smashmouth offense, so I really don't believe that any of them will take him. He's the best player available, but at the same time, he still needs to develop in the NFL (unlike Benson who is ready to go), and needs to condition himself for an NFL workload.

I think his best fit will be Minnesota. A counterpart with similar namesake (Moe Williams) would do him a lot of good. He needs a pound-the-middle rusher, which the Dolphins do not have. The Vikes also have a fantastic O-line.

I really see Cleveland trading down to Minnesota, but I would not rule out the Dolphins trading with Minnesota, although I nearly have.

The Vikings front office has contacted the Dolphins and thrown several offers at them, and they aren't budging. My belief is that they really want Derrick Johnson, and if they trade down, Cleveland takes him at No.3, so I don't see it happening.

The Vikings offered the Dolphins their No.18 pick, next year's first rounder, this year's third rounder, and Onterrio Smith.

I'm sure that Miami is certainly exploring the possibility of a trade down, but will stand firm and draft who they believe to be the best player available at No.2 unless an amazing offer is layed before them, which I don't see happening considering that Cleveland is at three trading down as well.

If we want to break this down more, you have to look at all of the smoke screens and media hype and try to dissect what's going on. Surely none of these teams have revealed their draft cards yet. What I believe is going on here is that Miami is tryign to hold Ronnie Brown hostage (much like the Raiders did with Larry Fitzgerald last year) to try to get Minnesota to bite, because they really want him.

People are being very quiet about Derrick Johnson everywhere.... but what you also have to keep in mind is that Miami, Cleveland, and Chicago are all three headed by defense-first coaches, and all have major problems at the WSLB position, which Johnson would immediately fill.

When things are quiet, you should raise questions. Everybody is talking about Ronnie Brown and Mike Williams, but very few are talking about Derrick Johnson, who is still a consensus top-round pick.

[schweinhart]

The point about the Vikes offense and Brown's fit w/ it also extends to the Fins if their new OC Scott Linnehan, who was the Vikes OC last year, plans to implement a similar offense in Miami. I would think he does. And his input in the draft for pick #2 is gonna be Brown or Edwards.

Derrick Johnson is either gonna be the 1st or 2nd defensive player picked IMO. Right now I have him going to the Clowns with the 3rd pick but Merriman is looking more like the pick there in part because the Clowns don't have a DE who is projected to move to OLB like Miami does in Jason Taylor as the switch to 3-4 takes place. The Clowns are better set at a coverage LB in a 3-4 scheme than a down/stand up pass rusher w/ short range coverage skills like Merriman.

So it looks to me like 2. Brown 3. Merriman.

Johnson could very well slide even though the teams you say -- the Fins, the Clowns, and the Bears (especially the Bears) need a WLB. But if Johnson is a Top 5, I'd say Bears. But he just as easily could slide out of the Top 10 like the Draft Guru has him at #11 to the Cowblows.

[Bobcat Bengal]

I like your drafts chris, but change the color scheme.

The intense yellow burns my retina.

[chrishcovga]

One of the things that is stressed in any form of education, is the ability to read for comprehension. Meaning that any individual that studies and or reads a given material have the necessary common sense to be able to relate to the written word in front of them.

* The majority of individuals that are termed illiterate are not based on their abilities to acknowledge ABC, or 123, but rather their ability to know what a word means and how it pertains to them. Often, Dyslexia which is referred to as " reading backwards " actually means - the inability to process sounds into words quickly. As a matter of fact, dyslexia is the most common form of reading disabilities. But let's get back to my original point. Reading for Comprehension.

- The brains ability to remember and process information and relate it to other material as you read further and further along differs from one person to person.

Let's give an example shall we ' ..

# 7 Minnesota Vikings - Mike Williams WR, U.S.C - Vikings may have lost a Randy Moss, but gaining a Mike Williams in the process is a plus - From reading this tid-bit of information, one can gather that the author ( that would be me ) is trying to relay a point that , even if you lose your star WR, the drafting of this person in the long run should prove it ( the loss ) as not that big a deal, as a matter of fact, you're probably better off.

Let's continue shall we, ..

# 18 Minnesota Vikings - Travis Johnson DT, Florida State. - " In a perfect world like this one, Tice should expect raindrops to become Gumdrops and lollypops." -

- If a person were reading for and " with " comprehension he would be able to entertain several ideas from these adjoining draft selections.

1. The Vikings may have landed the best wide receiver in the draft, after ridding themselves of a great one already.

2. The Vikings may have landed, arguably the "best" defensive lineman in the draft, after ridding themselves of underachieving Chris Hovan.

This is where the " Comprehension " part kicks in..

To make a statement - In a perfect world like this one, _ first implies Sarcasm. "For we already know that this is far from a perfect world." Raindrops to become gumdrops and lollypops - is a reference to a " childs " rhyme often spoken to toddlers in song at daycares. So it's a pretty general reference to how a child would see a perfect world ".. Still following me..??

If ( by reading with Comprehension ) you put the two draft selections together, the author has basically stated, that the Vikings ( Minnesota in case you haven't followed so far MLB ) have made out like " GANG-BUSTERS " with their 2 first round selections.

As a former Educator, I realize that not all fruit " ripen " at the same time. So I'm just going to pretend that MLB's inability to process this information without providing insult, is just his degree of learning disability.

* But since, MLB doesn't have the class to disagree with integrity, without trying to prove the " I'm right " " listen to me talk " , " I need attention too " I can write a better mock draft -just you watch " --- only goes to show my point. MLB is stupid!

* Look Pal, get a fricken life, I take the time out of my busy one to entertain football fans because I am one ! If the draft could actually happen the way my " predictions " happen, Then the Cincinnati Bengals would have never , and I repeat, NEVER drafted Akili Smith !! So here's a " Blues' Clue " for ya, make your own mock draft,

- I personally am not interested in all the " See how long my commentary can be with every selection"- that's why my mocks read the way they do ". OH yeah, by the way, until you actually do contribute something of value to society as a whole, or at least to 'WE few, we proud few of Bengaldom " then SHUT the F*ck UP ! :player:

* I was thinking the same thing about the Color, I'll change it to suit our Jungle Enviroment !

[bnglsfan26]

regarding Miami and former Vikings OC Scott Linehan, he is bringing that pass-happy offense to Miami. It was not a featured run-offense. Both Bennett and Onterrio Smith are on the trading block, as well Ricky Williams potentially coming back. There's not a chance they trade for Ronnie Brown because the blocking scheme alone that he needs to implement, he doesn't have the personnel for, and will take at least a season of coherence to gel.

Regarding that ignorant lecture on the fundamentals of debate and human comperhension above this post, Minnesota isn't looking to replace Randy Moss. They are moving to a run-first Power-I offense, and going to be running a lot of triple-option bootleg type plays (a la Nebraska a few years back). None of their current RBs are going to be able to push them to the next level, because none of them are power-perimeter runners.

Secondly, What the hell position is Travis Johnson going to play buddy? I gave you credit because you said that this draft was started a few months ago, so I believed that you had Travis Johnson locked in before free agency started. However, now that you are opting to defend your month-old mock draft, I have to continue to disagree.

Minnesota needs a defensive end, not a DT. Pat Williams is NT and Kevin Williams is the UT. Chris Hovan lost his job to Kevin Williams, he didn't leave a "hole" in the d-line. You mean to tell me that Minnesota is going to shift Kevin Williams out to DE or bench him after he had double digit sacks at the position last year (a major feat for a one-gap UT without a reliable NT or LDE beside him).

And all of this:

One of the things that is stressed in any form of education, is the ability to read for comprehension. Meaning that any individual that studies and or reads a given material have the necessary common sense to be able to relate to the written word in front of them.

* The majority of individuals that are termed illiterate are not based on their abilities to acknowledge ABC, or 123, but rather their ability to know what a word means and how it pertains to them. Often, Dyslexia which is referred to as " reading backwards " actually means - the inability to process sounds into words quickly. As a matter of fact, dyslexia is the most common form of reading disabilities. But let's get back to my original point. Reading for Comprehension.

- The brains ability to remember and process information and relate it to other material as you read further and further along differs from one person to person......

.......This is where the " Comprehension " part kicks in..

To make a statement - In a perfect world like this one, _ first implies Sarcasm. "For we already know that this is far from a perfect world." Raindrops to become gumdrops and lollypops - is a reference to a " childs " rhyme often spoken to toddlers in song at daycares. So it's a pretty general reference to how a child would see a perfect world ".. Still following me..??

If ( by reading with Comprehension ) you put the two draft selections together, the author has basically stated, that the Vikings ( Minnesota in case you haven't followed so far MLB ) have made out like " GANG-BUSTERS " with their 2 first round selections.

As a former Educator, I realize that not all fruit " ripen " at the same time. So I'm just going to pretend that MLB's inability to process this information without providing insult, is just his degree of learning disability.

* But since, MLB doesn't have the class to disagree with integrity, without trying to prove the " I'm right " " listen to me talk " , " I need attention too " I can write a better mock draft -just you watch " --- only goes to show my point. MLB is stupid!

* Look Pal, get a fricken life, I take the time out of my busy one to entertain football fans because I am one ! If the draft could actually happen the way my " predictions " happen, Then the Cincinnati Bengals would have never , and I repeat, NEVER drafted Akili Smith !! So here's a " Blues' Clue " for ya, make your own mock draft,

- I personally am not interested in all the " See how long my commentary can be with every selection"- that's why my mocks read the way they do ". OH yeah, by the way, until you actually do contribute something of value to society as a whole, or at least to 'WE few, we proud few of Bengaldom " then SHUT the F*ck UP ! 

* I was thinking the same thing about the Color, I'll change it to suit our Jungle Enviroment ! 

is just a bunch of fallacious jargon. Not only did you just type words that don't have any value, but your entire counterargument is founded on bad picks that you defend illogically. Each person certainly is entitled to his own opinion, and you obviously have above average knowledge on the NFL and the draft, but teams do not spend two first round picks on positions that they already have their starters at (WR1 Nate Burleson, WR2 Travis Taylor, WR3 Marcus Robinson, UT Kevin Williams, NT Pat Williams).

If you are going to brag about your unparalleled knowledge of the draft world, you should at least be open to debating and defending your picks. But i'm not going to bother continuing this debate if you're going to type 1000 words of nonsense that just ramble off-topic.

[chrishcovga]

regarding Miami and former Vikings OC Scott Linehan, he is bringing that pass-happy offense to Miami.  It was not a featured run-offense.  Both Bennett and Onterrio Smith are on the trading block, as well Ricky Williams potentially coming back.  There's not a chance they trade for Ronnie Brown because the blocking scheme alone that he needs to implement, he doesn't have the personnel for, and will take at least a season of coherence to gel.

Regarding that ignorant lecture on the fundamentals of debate and human comperhension above this post, Minnesota isn't looking to replace Randy Moss.  They are moving to a run-first Power-I offense, and going to be running a lot of triple-option bootleg type plays (a la Nebraska a few years back).  None of their current RBs are going to be able to push them to the next level, because none of them are power-perimeter runners.

Secondly, What the hell position is Travis Johnson going to play buddy?  I gave you credit because you said that this draft was started a few months ago, so I believed that you had Travis Johnson locked in before free agency started.  However, now that you are opting to defend your month-old mock draft, I have to continue to disagree.

Minnesota needs a defensive end, not a DT.  Pat Williams is NT and Kevin Williams is the UT.  Chris Hovan lost his job to Kevin Williams, he didn't leave a "hole" in the d-line.  You mean to tell me that Minnesota is going to shift Kevin Williams out to DE or bench him after he had double digit sacks at the position last year (a major feat for a one-gap UT without a reliable NT or LDE beside him).

And all of this:

One of the things that is stressed in any form of education, is the ability to read for comprehension. Meaning that any individual that studies and or reads a given material have the necessary common sense to be able to relate to the written word in front of them.

* The majority of individuals that are termed illiterate are not based on their abilities to acknowledge ABC, or 123, but rather their ability to know what a word means and how it pertains to them. Often, Dyslexia which is referred to as " reading backwards " actually means - the inability to process sounds into words quickly. As a matter of fact, dyslexia is the most common form of reading disabilities. But let's get back to my original point. Reading for Comprehension.

- The brains ability to remember and process information and relate it to other material as you read further and further along differs from one person to person......

.......This is where the " Comprehension " part kicks in..

To make a statement - In a perfect world like this one, _ first implies Sarcasm. "For we already know that this is far from a perfect world." Raindrops to become gumdrops and lollypops - is a reference to a " childs " rhyme often spoken to toddlers in song at daycares. So it's a pretty general reference to how a child would see a perfect world ".. Still following me..??

If ( by reading with Comprehension ) you put the two draft selections together, the author has basically stated, that the Vikings ( Minnesota in case you haven't followed so far MLB ) have made out like " GANG-BUSTERS " with their 2 first round selections.

As a former Educator, I realize that not all fruit " ripen " at the same time. So I'm just going to pretend that MLB's inability to process this information without providing insult, is just his degree of learning disability.

* But since, MLB doesn't have the class to disagree with integrity, without trying to prove the " I'm right " " listen to me talk " , " I need attention too " I can write a better mock draft -just you watch " --- only goes to show my point. MLB is stupid!

* Look Pal, get a fricken life, I take the time out of my busy one to entertain football fans because I am one ! If the draft could actually happen the way my " predictions " happen, Then the Cincinnati Bengals would have never , and I repeat, NEVER drafted Akili Smith !! So here's a " Blues' Clue " for ya, make your own mock draft,

- I personally am not interested in all the " See how long my commentary can be with every selection"- that's why my mocks read the way they do ". OH yeah, by the way, until you actually do contribute something of value to society as a whole, or at least to 'WE few, we proud few of Bengaldom " then SHUT the F*ck UP ! 

* I was thinking the same thing about the Color, I'll change it to suit our Jungle Enviroment ! 

is just a bunch of fallacious jargon. Not only did you just type words that don't have any value, but your entire counterargument is founded on bad picks that you defend illogically. Each person certainly is entitled to his own opinion, and you obviously have above average knowledge on the NFL and the draft, but teams do not spend two first round picks on positions that they already have their starters at (WR1 Nate Burleson, WR2 Travis Taylor, WR3 Marcus Robinson, UT Kevin Williams, NT Pat Williams).

If you are going to brag about your unparalleled knowledge of the draft world, you should at least be open to debating and defending your picks. But i'm not going to bother continuing this debate if you're going to type 1000 words of nonsense that just ramble off-topic.

Like I said, reading for comprehension, and the need for you to hear yourself speak.

Let's settle a couple of things that you can't seem to grasp here,

1. Kevin Williams has played DE for the Vikings, as well as DT. That's why he's been a Pro Bowler, because he has rare size for the end spot, as well as great inside push. - go back and read his bio before you speak. -

2. Pat Williams is old ! - sure he's still productive, but they got rid of Chris Hovan, who's about 5 years younger, and considering the Vikings lack of depth at the DT position already, why would you pass on the drafts' " TOP RATED DT " ..?? Do you actually think the Vikings are going to get 64 defensive snaps out of Pat Williams a game..?? - go back and study

3. Nate Burleson, Marcus Robinson, Travis Taylor??? Travis Taylor was signed to be the interim starter for Randy Moss, are you going to tell me that if Braylon Edwards or Mike Williams is available with the # 7 pick , you're going to pass them up to land a LB, when the Vikings just got Napolean Harris, Sam Cowart, and already have Dontarrious Thomas and E.J. Henderson ?

4. Travis Johnson has played DE and DT while at Florida State. - He didn't become a starter until his Senior year, one because he was behind Womble and Dockett, two, because he had some pretty spotty play. But considering the athleticism he has, ( timed with recent workouts having him run under 4.9 -pretty impressive for his size) Johnson could play the 3 or the nose ! - once again, read before you speak.

5. At what time did Mike Tice and his offensive co-oridinator decide to strip a playbook that has made a top 5-10 offense every year it's been in place? Power running isn't defined by your running back, it's defined by your blocking !! Ever heard of a Fullback, or two tight end sets...?

- look I understand if you're a Vikings fan, and you don't like the picks, but just say, well If I were the Vikings, I would look to do this, or that, but your arguement ( in which you're obviously doing with yourself) makes no football sense! You're not looking at the big picture. I don't have to defend my picks, because no GM is paying me to do so, but I'll tell you what...

If I'm the Vikings, and I'm sitting at # 7, and i've just landed a sh*t load of defensive starters in free agency over the last 2 seasons, and just dumped arguably the NFL's best Wide receiver, and dumped 9 million in salary along with it, then I'm probably going to take a WR early ! Oh and if I drafted Kenechi Udeze last year and have solid play from Lance Johnstone and last year's pick of Darrion Scott ( Ohio State ), then DE might not be my biggest need, however a DT to take over my old Free AGent builds a defensive line with no holes, and great rotation. - But hey that's just what I would do, because it makes Common sense !

6. The Vikings have probably the deepest running back tandem in the NFL. They have 3 players that can get them a 1000 yards each year, and to say that thy don't have a power perimeter running game is just nonsense. Did you ever see Onterrio Smith play..? What about Michael Bennett..? Bennett may be the fastest running back in the league ( when healthy ) and Smith combines power inside, with enough quickness to get to the edge. And then you have Mewelde Moore, who was Tulanes' complete offense his senior season, and probably the single reason why the Vikings made a playoff run after Bennett was hurt, and Smith was suspended. - so wha'cha' sayin' ..?

* I love this little thing called a " FACT "... you should try using them from time to time. :player:

[Bobcat Bengal]

teams do not spend two first round picks on positions that they already have their starters at (WR1 Nate Burleson, WR2 Travis Taylor, WR3 Marcus Robinson, UT Kevin Williams, NT Pat Williams).

I'm not trying to defend chris (I know he is MORE than capable of doing this for himself) but actually, Minnesota went ahead and drafted Randy Moss that year, knowing they had Jake Reed and Cris Carter, two starting WR's, with Cris Carter still in his prime.

Minnesota has Kenechi Udeze too. They might need another DE, but they grabbed him last year with their first pick.

Minnesota IS gonna draft a WR, their fans would have the staff's heads if they let Randy go and not even bother to TRY and replace him.

I don't even CLAIM to know spit about the draft and what the team needs, I'm just saying, just because a team is stacked at a position doesnt mean they won't surplus it.

[bnglsfan26]

We can debate this all day... but it's not going to progress into anything more meaningful. We can pull this thread up later and see who was right , but I don't base my predictions and assessments of teams' drafting based on "what i'd do if I were them", I base it on what I believe they are actually planning on doing. That said, it's all speculation at this point, and it's difficult to siphon through all of the smoke screens and media propaganda that staffs deploy in attempt to get the players they want to fall to them or trade down.

On Chris Hovan though, he didn't hardly see the field last year. Getting rid of him was not a loss other than depth, so expect them to replace him with a middle rounder, not a first rounder . Kevin Williams was marginal as a DE, so he was moved to the inside at DT, and put up 12 sacks. There's not a chance they draft Johnson, who has character problems and a questioned work ethic, and move their young star UT to the outside. And they aren't going to draft Johnson and make him a DE when the likes of Matt Roth, Dan Cody, and David Pollack are all likely to still be on the board at 18.

[chrishcovga]

I win

as for Dan Cody - headcase

Matt Roth, he's alright, but I hope we don't draft him

Pollack, outstanding hustle and enthusiasm, but please not another short armed defensive end !

[schweinhart]

regarding Miami and former Vikings OC Scott Linehan, he is bringing that pass-happy offense to Miami. It was not a featured run-offense.

Sherlock

But does this jibe w/ the kind of 350-carry RB you say Miami now wants w/ their new OC transplating his system from Minnesota

Pass happy and 350-carry RB certainly can work....Take the Bengals.

I had the Vikes taking Merriman at #7 to play DE but Moses the Clown seems likelier to take him w/ #3. The Merriman choice was mainly because Mike Williams should be gone before #7 so the Vikes won't get the WR they want there. I believe the Vikes take Roddy White at #18 and roll the dice w/ Erasmus James at # 7.

[BengalszoneBilly]

We can pull this thread up later and see who was right ,

Well I was wondering when we'd get around to the only true test for anyone who has the cajones to post a mock draft of their own. I don't know about anyone else around here, but at this point I'd be really interested to see how both of your guy's mocks, or any mocks from other "Lords of the Draft" around here (like "vman1186?") for that matter would fare head to head against the actual draft results. Not only that, I'd also like to see how they compare to the results forecasted by the "experts" from the popular "big name" draft oriented websites.

Why don't you guys make it easy for us and sometime before the draft, you post your final mocks somewhere in this forum so we can see how they pan out afterwards. Just the 1st round would be fine, anything beyond that is way too speculative. But if you think you're that good, then by all means go a few rounds deeper.

It's not like your going to win any dream vacations or anything by coming out on top in this I know, but after all this back and forth "point and counter-point" debating between you two, as well as comments by other somewhat knowlegable parties, you guy's have to be curious as well, right?

[bnglsfan26]

heh, sure thing... not that it impacts either of our well-being or livelihoods (getting the approval of an internet message board ), but I love bets, so I will make a wager that I easily get more picks right than you do, especially if you continue to make predictions like that .

just remind me so I don't forget.. I keep tabs on a lot of different message boards in the offseason pre-draft... But i'll make an effort to stay involved in this one.

[chrishcovga]

Regardless of whatever anyone on this board thinks about the information I provide, won't change the amount or matter in which I provide it. - I could honestly care less about a Mock Contest, considering ABOUT.com entered mine into their contest last year, and I still beat guys like Drew Boylhart, D.J.Boyer, and Vic Carucci of NFL.com - Lost to NfldraftCountdown, and trailed Mel " the Hair " Kiper by 12 measley points, so what's left to prove...?

Anyone that wants to go head on with me over this stuff, feel free too, and if by some miracle you beat me, well have a coke and a smile and shut the f*ck up, cause it's not like you get a trophy for it!

But I do have a problem with internet p*ssies that make statements like " you should be slapped for the selection you made " and then don't have the Cajones to finish the debate, back down and say , well we'll just see who was right in time. That's fine too, but if you really have the Kanaka's to slap ME in the face, I'll pay for your plane ticket to Atlanta GA, and the prothstetic hand you'll need to wipe your ass with afterwards, cause I guarantee that'll be the last thing you'll ever use that hand for!

Now , if you want someone other than myself with credibility to post a Mock draft, it should be Schweiney hands down. Schweiney posts logical information about draftable players, Has an outstanding knowledge of the pro-game and each team in question. I actually value his opinion on this subject, cause I can tell he actually takes the time to digest this information and pass it on for others without cause for compensation, because he just likes it! Schweiney can come to Atlanta, GA. and be offered a beer and a table dance from one of the lovely's at Jazzy T's on me, MLB, can catch a fly! - That means get lost BUSTER. :player:

[schweinhart]

That's fine too, but if you really have the Kanaka's to slap ME in the face, I'll pay for your plane ticket to Atlanta GA, and the prothstetic hand you'll need to wipe your ass with afterwards, cause I guarantee that'll be the last thing you'll ever use that hand for!

Much obliged for the offer for beers and free table dance, but I gotta say the above would have some mighty powerful entertainment value to see take place

[schweinhart]

Now , if you want someone other than myself with credibility to post a Mock draft, it should be Schweiney hands down.

That's might wide of you Schwammy

I'll ante up to the Bengals pick and guarantee my picks will be all a$$ backwards come draft day.

1. Alex Smith Niners

2. Ronnie Brown Fins

3. Shawne Merriman Clowns

4. Braylon Edwards Bears

5. Mike Williams Bucs

6. Derrick Johnson Eagles (from Titans)

7. Pac Man Jones Vikes

8. Cedric Benson Zona

9. Antrell Rolle Skins

10. Alex Barron Lions

11. Aaron Rodgers Cowblows

12. Troy Williamson Bolts

13. Mark Clayton Texans

14. Cadillac Williams Panthers

15. Travis Johnson Chiefs

16. Jammal Brown Saints

17. Thomas Davis Bengals

[chrishcovga]

Now , if you want someone other than myself with credibility to post a Mock draft, it should be Schweiney hands down.

That's might wide of you Schwammy

I'll ante up to the Bengals pick and guarantee my picks will be all a$$ backwards come draft day.

1. Alex Smith Niners

2. Ronnie Brown Fins

3. Shawne Merriman Clowns

4. Braylon Edwards Bears

5. Mike Williams Bucs

6. Derrick Johnson Eagles (from Titans)

7. Pac Man Jones Vikes

8. Cedric Benson Zona

9. Antrell Rolle Skins

10. Alex Barron Lions

11. Aaron Rodgers Cowblows

12. Troy Williamson Bolts

13. Mark Clayton Texans

14. Cadillac Williams Panthers

15. Travis Johnson Chiefs

16. Jammal Brown Saints

17. Thomas Davis Bengals

Kinda get the feeling we're seeing these " top 2 " quarterbacks in the same picture here again Schweiney.

1. one moment a guy gets a standing ovation for his workout.

2. other guy has a great workout too,

3. then the coach who hosted the first workout said he wasn't impressed, told the kid to come back for a private workout after seeing his receivers run half speed.

4. Then everyone runs to watch Jason Campbell, and Kyle Orton work out.

5. Then few go to watch Adrian McPherson work out, only to have him turn in one of the better workouts of all the quarterbacks.- now everyone wants to see him privately...

This should be a pretty fun draft, because of the fact that there is no clear cut top player other than Braylon Edwards and the running backs.

* But as to the Jazzy T's reference... ahhhh the memories... the memories....

[TJJackson]

I just got to say this:

To me, in the salary cap era, durability is a must in a 1st round player. I mean, if the player is on IR, you're still on the hook for his cap (not to mention his real payroll dollars) hit PLUS the salary of the guy you have to bring in to take his place while he rehabs. It's frighteningly expensive to draft a 1st rounder who can't get off the bench, even moreso to draft one who can't get off crutches.

So you ask: TJ, are you even mentioning this?

Eramus James is the player picked in Mock V. The major strike (amongst other lesser ones) on this player is durability. I just can't see a player with serious durability questions being picked in round 1. I guess it depends on whether you believe he will be durable or not, and I am definitely on the "he'll be on IR most of his career" side of the issue.

Please consider revising to either Pollack or Davis (given the remaining choices at this slot) or even S Cody at this slot instead.

[Bobcat Bengal]

If The Drug Store List says Pollack is the 7th overall BPA, I'd take his advice.

Dude has been in the Cincy War Rooms.

[TJJackson]

Chris has since told me privately that he firmly believes Erasmus' injuries are behind him and durability is not the risk I (still) believe it is.

But I have to give him this: I'd certainly consider Erasmus if I believed (as he does) that injuries will not be an issue. That's mainly what it comes down to.

Of course I still like Pollack's intangibles and motor and run stopping ability a lot better, so I'd still probably go with Pollack over James even if James had no injury history......but they'd be closer.

[Bobcat Bengal]

Damnit man.

So many players.

I want them all.

Spencer, James, and Davis.