LT a possibility at 17

[TJJackson]

I realize we want defense.

I realize we want to not pick a offensive player for the third year in a row.

However, I've given it a lot of thought and OT, specifically a LT, would not be a bad choice at pick 17, and here's why

1) Levi's contract is up at the end of 2005, and he will at that point be a UFA. The contracts being offered to average caliber LTs this offseason (witness Jonas Jennings contract with SF) are insane.

2) I don't think Levi has been a bad LT, and he has played through pain as well, but I don't think he is worth the price he'll likely command as an UFA going into the 2006 season.

3) Taking a rookie in the 2006 draft isn't a great idea. The pass protector for Carson should have at least a year in our system under his belt. The time to do that is now....taking a top notch LT and letting him groom under Levi, hopefully even starting by the end of 2005.

4) Getting a FA LT - this gets back to the point about the cost. I think paying a FA big bucks would probably be worse than just paying Levi -- who at least knows our system and his linemates well -- would be a better idea.

5) No real heir apparent currently identified. Look at the OTs now on the Bengal's roster - you see Stacey Andrews as Big Willie's eventual replacement, but which player is really intended to take over for Levi if he leaves? Maybe Steinback plays there if he goes down during the season, but I don't think Steinbach is intended to play LT long term....rather only as an emergency measure. Another way to look at this: Levi signs elsewhere for 2006. Who is your long term LT, and is he ready?

I'm not saying this is the way we should DEFINITELY go, but the more I think about it, the more legit a possibility it becomes.

So I've started looking at the top three tackles - Barron, Brown, Barnes. Big drop off in the talent level after that. Barron might just last, he's projected to about 12 but might fall under the right circumstances. The other two are likely lower 1st rounders which puts them available at 17.

Even if we don't select them at 17, to me, the fact that we could have an interest in an OT EXPANDS the possibility of a trade down....ie, the more players remaining at 17 that we have interest in, the further we can trade down, and ergo the more picks we can pick up later.

Thoughts? Criticisms? Derisive sneering and guffaws? Throw'em my way.

[Bobcat Bengal]

well, if the texans are trading for Pace, I can see him falling.

But I really wouldn't think that they would let him get past them if he was there, EVEN with Pace there and all.

[TJJackson]

I guess I just haven't heard anyone talking about OT as a possibility at all, an it has been bothering me. Hell, until this weekend, OT wasn't even a position I had considered the Bengals drafting at all, particularly at 17

As I see it now, any of the following could be the way the Bengals go at 17, and in no particular order

1) S

2) DE

3) OT (but specifically LT)

4) Trade down for more value in day 1, still taking one of the above at the eventual first pick.

I like option 4 the best if they can pull it off.

I don't see C until 2.

[Bobcat Bengal]

I guess I just haven't heard anyone talking about OT as a possibility at all, an it has been bothering me. Hell, until this weekend, OT wasn't even a position I had considered the Bengals drafting at all, particularly at 17

As I see it now, any of the following could be the way the Bengals go at 17, and in no particular order

1) S

2) DE

3) OT (but specifically LT)

4) Trade down for more value in day 1, still taking one of the above at the eventual first pick.

I like option 4 the best if they can pull it off.

I don't see C until 2.

man, there's no telling with the Bengals now.

It's just a excercise in futility, like filling out a NCAA bracket.

[cover2]

1) Saftey

2) DE or C or LB

3) DE or C or LB

4) DE or C or LB

5) WR

6) ?

7

[chrishcovga]

I agree that we are one year away from having to address the contracts of both Levi Jones and Eric Steinbach, but I was under the impression that by forcing all the signing bonuses to T.J. and Rudi into front year money would leave us in a position next season to be able to keep both players.

There was a story about Rudi's contract last month,(February on Bengals.com) where Marvin was talking about this situation, and I believe that because we'll be in position with Contracts ending like P-dub's and the uncertain future of Kevin Hardy', that we'll have the cap room to keep Jones and Eric and sign them to long term contracts. I may be misled, and we may only be able to keep one of them, if so, who do we keep..?

* An above average left tackle - no where near the talents of Walter Jones or Johnathan Ogden.

-or

* An above average left guard - Steinbach has been very good, but I thought he played better his rookie year, than he did last year, and his durability has to be questioned with the amount of injuries he goes into the offseason with each year!

If they can work Rudi's Contract to be cap friendly, then I don't see why next year they couldn't do the same with our starting left side.

[membengal]

I agree that we are one year away from having to address the contracts of both Levi Jones and Eric Steinbach, but I was under the impression that by forcing all the signing bonuses to T.J. and Rudi into front year money would leave us in a position next season to be able to keep both players.

There was a story about Rudi's contract last month,(February on Bengals.com) where Marvin was talking about this situation, and I believe that because we'll be in position with Contracts ending like P-dub's and the uncertain future of Kevin Hardy', that we'll have the cap room to keep Jones and Eric and sign them to long term contracts. I may be misled, and we may only be able to keep one of them, if so, who do we keep..?

* An above average left tackle - no where near the talents of Walter Jones or Johnathan Ogden.

-or

* An above average left guard - Steinbach has been very good, but I thought he played better his rookie year, than he did last year, and his durability has to be questioned with the amount of injuries he goes into the offseason with each year!

If they can work Rudi's Contract to be cap friendly, then I don't see why next year they couldn't do the same with our starting left side.

Ding ding ding ding. We have a winner.

Everyone needs to chill on the signing situation for next year. It's a whole new ballgame in terms of contract issues and the Bengals long-range planning now that ML is involved. Chris has it right, I think, they did what they did in terms of contracts for Rudi and TJ to leave them plenty of flexibility to deal with Levi and Eric next year.

The revolving door is ending in Cincy, so, no, I don't see them going LT at #17 as a precursor to moving Levi out. I will be incredibly hacked off if they pass up a game-changer at WR or, please God, Thomas Davis at that spot, or double please God, Shawn Merriman if he should somehow fall to that spot.

[TJJackson]

Hmm.

Maybe LT will be a consideration in later rounds, then....someone very athletic and otherwise optimal but a little lean on experience who could be groomed....

[cover2]

Chris: "Hacked-off if Davis is taken at 17"?

I must have missed your take on Davis? What's up?

[Bobcat Bengal]

Chris: "Hacked-off if Davis is taken at 17"?

I must have missed your take on Davis? What's up?

you also missed his point.

he'd be mad IF they PASSED up either a game breaking WR OR Thomas Davis at 17.

[chrishcovga]

Chris: "Hacked-off if Davis is taken at 17"?

I must have missed your take on Davis? What's up?

Well here's how I see Thomas Davis. Firstly I live in Georgia, and I saw him play almost every game he was in. - Wouldn't lie to you that i'm a little biased when it comes to the SEC playes as you've all seen in my mock drafts etc. etc.

But here are my concerns about Davis. If you've ever seen him play, He's basically a Linebacker. Nothing more than that. He always played in the box and was seldom , very seldom left to cover the slot in man nor was he asked to be a Deep 3rd. I have questions how he breaks down a play, and I think that because he's a " step-forward " first type of player, he's a risk to get burned often over the middle and deep on play action.

so who's a better safety you ask...??

Well Davis is a hitter that's for sure, but I so desperately wanted Cincy to draft Ed Reed back in 2002, and had it not been for Mikey and Leblow, we could have had him and Levi Jones if we just taken the Raiders offer of #'s 21 and 23 for our # 10 spot. - But regardless here are the Safeties that I'm very high on this year.

# 1. - Josh Bullocks, As Center Fielders come, he may be the best of the bunch this year. His interceptions were down his senior year, but he was clearly the best defender on a porous Nebraska defense, including Barret Ruud.

# 2. - Brodney Pool, He's rated as high if not higher than Davis, but he's not a hitter, and I don't think he has the one on one coverage skills Bullocks has. He's got good size, and he plays the run well, but his reactions aren't as good as Bullocks.

# 3. - James Butler, Talk about a guy flying under the Radar, he's been one of the better safeties in college football the last 3 seasons. He's a playmaker in the sense, that he steps up in key positions of the game. he'll make a play on the ball, or deliver a good enough hit to force a fumble. His coverage skills are average, but He's a better Zone defender any way. He's a guy that probably will get you a lot of interceptions from a good pass rush, which is what I hope we're developing with another DE and DT in the draft.

Jamaal Brimmer has fallen off my scope. He's a productive player, but that 4.8 speed is too slow to be effective in the NFL. He'll remind people of Rodney Harrison one moment and then " Abe Froman " the Sausage king of Chicago the next. He may turn out to be a fine player, but If I were running the draft room, I'd pick from Davis,Pool,Bullocks,and Butler before giving him consideration.

[schweinhart]

There are some Day 2 LTs that would be worth a pick...the Bengals need a solid prospect there regardless of Levi because Alex Sulfsted is not the answer as a backup (besides Steinbach).

Calvin Armstrong, Adam Kieft. Michael Roos, David Stewart, and some others.

I like Armstrong the best after watching him easily handle both speed and power rush in the Shrine Game vs. less than top notch comp.

As for safety, the best safety prospect I've seen who I think can both adequately cover and play run as 8th in box is James Butler, but he's not the best of the draft class at either. His upside is definitely there, though. I'm guessing he goes in the 3rd but before the Bengals pick.

Another dual-type saftey prospect who looked solid, has size, and showed both speed and leap at combine is Gerald Sensabaugh. He should still be there when the Bengals pick in 3rd and possibly the 4th.

[membengal]

A day 2 pick on a LT would be just fine with me.

[AGrizzlyBaer]

so are we talking andrews to play rt?

[HairOnFire]

I so desperately wanted Cincy to draft Ed Reed back in 2002, and had it not been for Mikey and Leblow, we could have had him and Levi Jones if we just taken the Raiders offer of #'s 21 and 23 for our # 10 spot.

Didn't happen. The Bengals claimed after that draft that they had received trade interest for the 10 pick from only four teams, New Orleans (13), New York (14), Tennessee (15), and the Raiders (21 & 23). The trade offers made by all of the teams were said to be so poor that none was taken very seriously, especially the trade proposals of New Orleans and Tennessee. Both of those proposals were said to be limited to a single offer before talks broke off. In addition, after the media started feasting on the Bengals unforgivable crime of drafting a player far too early the Raiders actually confirmed the Bengals claim that their trade offer was limited to swapping 1st rounders in exchange for a 2nd day draft pick. If my memory isn't faulty that pick was said to be a 5th rounder. Also said to be complicating matters was the Giants refusal to guarantee the Bengals that if their trade proposal was accepted that they wouldn't draft Levi for themselves, a story later confirmed by the Giants O-line coach, Jim McNally.