ArmyBengal Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Just curious with TJ now solid for the next 4 years, what happens with the #17 pick ?? Does keeping TJ change that pick consideration at all ?? IMOH, I still think we trade down, but have to strongly consider that without being able to play much more, if any at all in FA, and still haven't looked at our glaring need for D-line help, Travis Johnson is looking stronger and stronger for our #17 if we stay there, as the DTs I would have liked in FA are gone, (Ferguson, Williams). The TJ signing will mean nothing this year if we still can't stop the run. 40 points a game will mean nothing if the opposition puts up 41 or better. Does anyone see the Cleveland shootout from last year happening with greater frequency next year ??WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted March 3, 2005 Author Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Oops meant to put in Draft forum, sorry... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 No problem. I think 17 definitely had defense written on it now. Of course, depending on what else happens in FA that could change. Tho Ferguson and Willliams are both gone they didn't draw a big a paycheck as some thought; their deals were closer to $4 million/year averages than $5 million/year. And there are a few creaky veterans who are/may come loose (Raiders let Parella go, for instance, and chatter up here is that the Jints may say goodbye to Norman Hand). With a lot of youth on the d-line Marvin might still choose to add a vet... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Oops meant to put in Draft forum, sorry...We have rules you know..... Seriously, I still think they will take a LB or maybe a D-Lineman. With that pick they have to be thinking impact player not just someone you can develop over a long period of time. We have had the "luxury" of not needing our 1st round pick to perform during their fisrt season the last two years. However I think that has to change this year. The person they select has to be able to start almost immediately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I'm thinking DE or DT only, I don't think the need at LB is as great.A month ago I would have said Heath Miller, but am down on him somewhat now unless he falls to 48, which is doubtful in the extreme. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 In my humble opinion the TJ signing doesn't impact the #17 pick at all. I've always assumed that the pick would be used on the defensive side of the ball. C'mon, that's where the greatest team need exists AND most importantly...that's where the real value seems to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I've always assumed that the pick would be used on the defensive side of the ball. C'mon, that's where the greatest team need exists AND most importantly...that's where the real value seems to be. Talk about dejavu all over again....Sounds like a dead ringer from this time last year.But I believe ML gets to pull the trigger on a 1st rd defensive player...finally. And who would that be?Unless Travis Johnson is available at 17, I say pass on DT until 2nd rd now that WR is not a draft priority because there should be a cluster of DTs available in the mid 2nd.At DE, Pollack, Spears, and IMO Dan Cody will still be there at #17. Pollack or Spears would be okay by me but I'd rather see the best available defensive athlete taken at this point given the questions also surrounding the LB position.So I'm saying now at #17 Thomas Davis, Channing Crowder, or trade down to about 28 for Kevin Burnett.If for some reason the trigger gets pulled on the O side, the only player I'd like to see in stripes is TE Alex Smith because I believe he's already a NFL caliber blocker w/ receiving and runningskills only slightly less than Heath Miller. Might be able to trade down to Philly at #31 to get Smith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 I've always assumed that the pick would be used on the defensive side of the ball. C'mon, that's where the greatest team need exists AND most importantly...that's where the real value seems to be.Talk about dejavu all over again....Sounds like a dead ringer from this time last year.But I believe ML gets to pull the trigger on a 1st rd defensive player...finally. And who would that be?Unless Travis Johnson is available at 17, I say pass on DT until 2nd rd now that WR is not a draft priority because there should be a cluster of DTs available in the mid 2nd.At DE, Pollack, Spears, and IMO Dan Cody will still be there at #17. Pollack or Spears would be okay by me but I'd rather see the best available defensive athlete taken at this point given the questions also surrounding the LB position.So I'm saying now at #17 Thomas Davis, Channing Crowder, or trade down to about 28 for Kevin Burnett.If for some reason the trigger gets pulled on the O side, the only player I'd like to see in stripes is TE Alex Smith because I believe he's already a NFL caliber blocker w/ receiving and runningskills only slightly less than Heath Miller. Might be able to trade down to Philly at #31 to get Smith. I think it's still to early to say where we go. I mean how do you pass on a Braylon Edwards if for some ungodly reason he drops to # 17. What about Mike Williams. Cedric Benson or Ronnie Brown...?? If there is a skill position player that is just lights out and falls you gotta take 'em or trade down and make whatever team that wants that player pay for it big time !! NO MERCY ON DRAFT DAY !! Ok, but back to the post, 3 guys we gotta be leaning towards, Johnson,Spears and Cody because of their versatility.Guys i'm a little scared of now, Pollack - always looked like a 260 lb linebacker, combine showed he was ! Anttaj Hawthorne, Don't get me wrong I would love to grab him in the second round especially if we grab a pure DE in round 1, but his 5.25 time in the 40 has got to be a concern. DT's have to have great short area quickness, and his 10 yard times weren't good either, I wouldn't be surprised if he became this years' Randy Starks and Darnell Dockett. A guy that didn't time well and fell all the way to the 3rd round. - Tid bit: Dockett played pretty darn good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Travis the one year Wonder Johnson has me scared worse than Hawthorne.If it has to has to has to be a DT no matter what, trade down and take the impressive but relatively unknown Luis Castillo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shworge Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 When it looked like we weren't going to sign TJ I wanted the Bengals to take Troy Williamson, now I just want the Bengals to take the best player available (preferably on the defensive side). I don't think there is a pure DE worth the 17th pick, according to the combine notes I read they were pretty unimpressive, especially Erasmus James, who two weeks ago I would have liked until I saw how slow he is.I think Williamson has a good chance of being better than Edwards or Williams, he reminds me a lot of Chad Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurgan74 Posted March 3, 2005 Report Share Posted March 3, 2005 Unless Shaun Cidy has a dynamite workout at USC's pro day, I think he will be there at 17. Cody looked very good in the drills that he did participate in at the combine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redsfan2510 Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 I think unless someone drops into our lap at 17;we should trade down. we could then draft Shazor(ss) and Tuck (de or Olb). If we picked up a extra 2nd;we could pick up Thurman mlb or Castillo Dt. Chris Henry is also an option. He has good speed . REDSFAN2510 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Forget Chris Henry - no loose cannons or head cases for ML's Bengals, pleasehttp://www.nflfans.com/draft/2005/showplay...=Chris%20Henry* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 If there is a skill position player that is just lights out and falls you gotta take 'em or trade down and make whatever team that wants that player pay for it big time !! It's best available at it's best Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whur CHad At? Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 What about Justin Tuck from Notre Dame in round one. Or Channing Crowder because he resembles Ray Lewis in every way, he never misses tackles. Marvin would love to have either one of these young fellers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Channing Crowder is very inexperienced and also has injury problems.Tuck might be OK, but there are several players I'd prefer ahead of him....including Merriman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbrooks21 Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 In my humble opinion the TJ signing doesn't impact the #17 pick at all. I've always assumed that the pick would be used on the defensive side of the ball. C'mon, that's where the greatest team need exists AND most importantly...that's where the real value seems to be. I believe it does greatly. With Warrick's health issues and Marvin wanting a speedster beside Chad Johnson(which we still don't have) I could have seen us taking a wideout at 17. Now it almost ensures we go defense, but IMO there will be a trade that happens and gives us more picks. We still might see a wideout but it will be later..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbrooks21 Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Forget Chris Henry - no loose cannons or head cases for ML's Bengals, pleasehttp://www.nflfans.com/draft/2005/showplay...=Chris%20Henry* You hit that one on the head...As a WVU fan we saw Chris Henry act a fool on more than a couple occasions. He acted like an idiot at Rutgers and was pouting because he didn't have enough catches in the Gator Bowl. With that said, if he grows up a little bit he could be nasty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 I think it's still to early to say where we go. I mean how do you pass on a Braylon Edwards if for some ungodly reason he drops to # 17. What about Mike Williams. Cedric Benson or Ronnie Brown...?? If there is a skill position player that is just lights out and falls you gotta take 'em or trade down and make whatever team that wants that player pay for it big time !! NO MERCY ON DRAFT DAY !! Ok, but back to the post, 3 guys we gotta be leaning towards, Johnson,Spears and Cody because of their versatility.Guys i'm a little scared of now, Pollack - always looked like a 260 lb linebacker, combine showed he was ! Anttaj Hawthorne, Don't get me wrong I would love to grab him in the second round especially if we grab a pure DE in round 1, but his 5.25 time in the 40 has got to be a concern. DT's have to have great short area quickness, and his 10 yard times weren't good either, I wouldn't be surprised if he became this years' Randy Starks and Darnell Dockett. A guy that didn't time well and fell all the way to the 3rd round. - Tid bit: Dockett played pretty darn good! Braylon Edwards won't fall to the Bengals at #17. You can quote me on that one. As for the other offensive options likely to be available none represents value so outstanding that all consideration of defensive options have to be immediately shelved. Even a player like Mike Williams represents nothing more than good...but not great...value at that spot. So, if he's available...I'd say a player like Mike Williams belongs on the Bengals short list, but once included on that list Williams doesn't dominate it. He simply falls evenly into the mix with a half dozen defensive lineman of equal value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whur CHad At? Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 TJJackson Posted: Mar 4 2005, 12:18 AM Channing Crowder is very inexperienced and also has injury problems.Tuck might be OK, but there are several players I'd prefer ahead of him....including Merriman. Ok thats what they said about Ray Lewis. Look what he ended up beingAnd Justin Tuck is not just ok, HE is amazing if you have ever watched him you would know. He could play OLB as well he is very versitle and very quick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJJackson Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005  Channing Crowder is very inexperienced and also has injury problems.Tuck might be OK, but there are several players I'd prefer ahead of him....including Merriman. Ok thats what they said about Ray Lewis. Look what he ended up beingUhm, uh, so every player who is inexperienced and injury prone ends up being as good a linebacker as Ray Lewis? Wow. :-)Let's just agree to disagree. You like Crowder, I like Merriman. *shrug* Thats why the draft is such a crapshoot :-)And Justin Tuck is not just ok, He is amazing if you have ever watched him you would know. He could play OLB as well he is very versitle and very quickWell now, don't take offense. When I say Ok in this context, I mean he might be good value at 17. Might. I think if we want tuck, we want him a bit later, ergo we'd trade down. I did not mean OK in terms of his qualities as a football player.Cool? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whur CHad At? Posted March 4, 2005 Report Share Posted March 4, 2005 Tuck is suspected to go to before your boy merriman to the LionsFrom NFL Draft countdown:Tuck has gotten bigger and stronger the past couple of years and improved his all-around game while maintaining the tremendous speed and athleticism that make him one of the best pure pass rushers in this Draft and Notre Dame's all-time leader in sacks.Pretty Impressive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalsfan33 Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 I say we take Thomas Davis unless the Packers release Sharper and we would definitely make a run for him...But if Davis isn't there, then we'll take a defensive lineman for sure... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schweinhart Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 I say we take Thomas Davis unless the Packers release Sharper and we would definitely make a run for him...But if Davis isn't there, then we'll take a defensive lineman for sure... I've went from Crowder to Travis Johnson to Roddy White to Miller to trading down for Alex Smith (TE) to Pollack to Merriman.... But w/ the way free agency is falling and the clouds around the Bengals LB situation, I'm slotting Thomas Davis at #17..because IMO he has as good a shot to be the SS as he does the MLB or WSLB if needed. His versatility wins out for me. But It's real hard to pass on Crowder, who I think Parcells takes at #20. By the time the draft rolls around, I could be back to where I started w/ Crowder at #17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whur CHad At? Posted March 5, 2005 Report Share Posted March 5, 2005 Crowder is what Marivn wants i think. He is a freak, who brings it every down. He is Just like Ray Lewis and Teddy Bruschi combined because he is always where the ball is, every time. Very Rarely misses any tackles. It is what Marvin wants, and i think Channing is KEY to improving our D, since we are failing to do it in Free Agency Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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