Is Schaffer being disingenuous ...

[JPW]

Are Schaffer's statements concerning Rudi's contract negotiations merely guileful agent-talk ?

Or is the man a total moron ?

“The proposal we sent them last week has a lower (annual) average than the franchise number,” Schaffer said.

Well I would certainly Expect that it would be ...

Schaffer said what may have been a gap in how the Bengals viewed him stacked up against the NFL’s elite running backs no longer exists because that $6.3 million salary is the average of the top five paid backs in the league.

This statement amounts to nothing less than an Insult to the intelligence of ML and the Bengals FO.

And to the Team's Fan base for that matter ...

This guy is going to Pretend, that there is no difference between franchise-tag-numbers and a long-term-contract-numbers ?

If that were true, then the team has offered him a Better contract than what he even has asked for.

Is this guy a fool or does he just think that everybody else is ?

Every agent knows/should-know, that there IS a WORLD of Difference between tag-numbers and long-term-contract-numbers.

I happen to be a Big RUDI Fan ...

I Hope to see him as a Bengal for life ...

I can see Rudi and Perry becoming a Woods/Brooks type of duo ...

But I am sorry, he is Not a Top Five back ...

And with the salary-cap, the team can not Afford to pay him as if he were.

Nor can a team Afford to continually allow players, who they have developed, to just walk, with no value in return.

At Johnson’s direction, Schaffer came to Cincinnati the week after the season last month to talk contract. The Bengals gave him an offer, but Schaffer said he didn’t respond until last week because of his research in a critical year for running backs and because of such out-of-town events as the Senior Bowl and Super Bowl in back-to-back weeks.

The Bengals gave him an offer a week after the season and he just got back to them about it now ?

WTF ...

“Here’s a guy who 18 months ago said he wanted to be a Bengal for life and all we’ve gotten is one proposal,” Schaffer said. “And now he’s two weeks away from becoming a free agent and he won’t be able to realize his full market value, or to be able to look at other cities and teams. They are telling him he’s their franchise player and that deserves security.”

And then he has the nerve to bitch about only having had the one proposal so far ?

WTF ...

"Either way, off the market or on the market, it will be a long-term deal," Johnson said. “It really wasn’t about going on the market because I know the place I want to go is Cincinnati. But only if it’s for the long term.”

The fact of the matter is, "full market value" at this points includes the franchise tag factor.

But the truth of the matter is, Rudi wants to be in Cincinnati and the Bengals want him on the team.

This has been going on for two years now, it is time to cut the bulls**t.

I highly suspect that the problem here is that Schaffer is demanding top five money.

I think that it might be time for Rudi to step-up and to Tell this guy to Get REAL and to Get a Deal DONE ...

[HoosierCat]

This guy is going to Pretend, that there is no difference between franchise-tag-numbers and a long-term-contract-numbers ?

Ummm...well, yes, there is no difference. The franchise tag amount is the average of the long-term contract numbers of the top 5 backs. There is a difference in how the two types of deals impact the cap, but the actual money is the actual money. And Schaffer is certainly right that by offering Rudi top 5 money, they have committed themselves to giving him a big payday.

But I am sorry, he is Not a Top Five back ...

And with the salary-cap, the team can not Afford to pay him as if he were.

Nor can a team Afford to continually allow players, who they have developed, to just walk, with no value in return.

I agree he isn't a top 5 back, but what do you propose? You don't want to let him go for nothing...but you don't want to pay him the money (the $6.3 million) that's on the table right now, either. Assume no one is interested in trading for him, not unlikely given other available backs and a strong draft class. Now what?

And then he has the nerve to bitch about only having had the one proposal so far ?

Yeah, frankly, I think he does. Bengals had all last offseason and all season to hammer out an extension. And the fact they had a deal ready to go at the end of the season tells me they'd been working on it for some time. Maybe Schaffer could have been quicker to respond, but the Bengals have hardly been proactive. Contrast this with the in-season extension of Chad.

I highly suspect that the problem here is that Schaffer is demanding top five money.

Agents do what their clients tell them to do, and it's their job to get their client the best possible deal. If there's a problem, it's Rudi, not Schaffer.

[JPW]

Sorry Cat but I think you are wrong ...

Just because you are willing to pay top five money for ONE Year with no bonus money and no long term cap considerations, if need be, does NOT mean that the player is worth top five+bonus money in a LONG Term deal.

There is a WORLD of difference ...

Hell, if there wasn't he would have Jumped on the one year deal, because it would have been BETTER than what he was asking for.

Schaffer knows damn good and well that tag numbers for one year is one thing and that numbers on a long term contract is another thing altogether.

It is all well and good for an agent to try to get as much as possible for his client.

Well up to a certain point it is ...

My understanding is that Rudi was offered a long term contract last year, but that we had the same problem as this year.

To keep pushing past a certain point is not in your client's best interest ...

What do you propose?

I never said that I wouldn't paid him the $6.3 million.

I certainly would, if it came down to that, the Team could afford that for one year.

Yet my Hope is still that we get him signed long term.

But I feel like it is really up to Rudi and that is why I said that maybe he needs to tell his agent to Get Real.

It would not be responsible for the Bengals to over pay him ...

Top five money is not realist for a long term deal ...

The Bengals can't pay him that ...

And nobody else can either ...

[bengalboomer7]

I'm confused JPW, we both agree that he is not worth top five money, but you like the idea of the franchise tag which guarantees him a top five salary

[HoosierCat]

Just because you are willing to pay top five money for ONE Year with no bonus money and no long term cap considerations, if need be, does NOT mean that the player is worth top five+bonus money in a LONG Term deal.

Off the top of my head I'm not positive how they calculate the franchise tender, whether it's strictly salary or includes bonus amounts...but it doesn't really appear to matter much. I think the top two highest-paid backs right now are Tomlinson, who got a $60 million, 6 year deal, and then Portis, who inked an 8 year, $51 million deal with DC. Obviously LDT's $10 million average is way up there, but Portis' works out to just about the franchise tag amount. So if Rudi plays for the tender offer, he'll be earning as much as Portis' salary+bonus. The difference, of couurse, is that Rudi's cap hit is much higher.

It is all well and good for an agent to try to get as much as possible for his client.

Well up to a certain point it is ...

My understanding is that Rudi was offered a long term contract last year, but that we had the same problem as this year.

To keep pushing past a certain point is not in your client's best interest ...

Agreed...but precisely where that "certain point" lies is precisely the issue between Rudi and the Bengals. And with the franchise tender now made, Rudi has little incentive to sign anything he considers to be a "below market" deal.

What do you propose?

Let him walk, make Perry the starter, resign Watson. Perry, Watson, Quincy Wilson, Jeremi Johnson...works for me. Spend the $6 million on defense. And resign TJ.

I wish Rudi all the best. But if we can take a fourth-round pick and turn him into a 1,500 yard rusher I ain't worried.

[bengalboomer7]

Hold on Joisey, even though it may be a "new regime" think about all those FIRST round picks that didn't pan out like that fourth round pick did. I, for one, and hopefully Marvin too, is not willing to go into training camp with the commitee of Perry, Watson, and Wilson, especially since two of them have realistically NEVER hardly carried a football in the NFL

[HoosierCat]

Oh, there's no shortage of people who think I'm nuts (check with billy, I believe he keeps the list ). I'm just not willing to drop a boatload of money on Rudi. Unfortunately, the point is moot since we already have. My best-case scenario now is that they get a good trade offer for him. Second-best would be he plays under the 1-year deal and Perry emerges.

Yes, Perry could go belly-up. And the Bengals would be roundly decried for letting Rudi go. On the other hand, how stupid do the Bengals look if they sign Rudi to a big-bucks, long-term deal and then Perry breaks out?

Like I said earlier, they've bought themselves the worst of all possible worlds as a result of the way they played things last year (which was not entirely their fault; what they did seemed like a good idea at the time). Now they can either overpay for "insurance" (in either the short or long terms) or bite the bullet and go with Perry.

Hey, it worked with Palmer...

[bengalboomer7]

That's some of the reason why I was shouting for the transition tag. It would have given the Bengals more wiggle romm and made a long term deal cheaper. Plus, I don't think he would have gotten any huge interest I'm pretty much the same, escept I would rather sign Rudi, but not a that high of a price . Another reason why I don't like the franchise. I think every one in the world (including Mike Brown I hope) realizes that Rudi isn't a top five back, but we just gauranteed him top five money.

Personally, I will be so mega pissed (I'm talking childhood fit pissed) if we start the next year with just Perry, Watson, and Wilson. I'm not willing to just throw in a "band-aid" by commitee to ruin our playoff chances. At least Rudi is a proven back, so you know what he can and can't do. The less positions that are question marks the better

[HoosierCat]

Personally, I will be so mega pissed (I'm talking childhood fit pissed) if we start the next year with just Perry, Watson, and Wilson. I'm not willing to just throw in a "band-aid" by commitee to ruin our playoff chances.

Mark my words: if the Bengals miss the playoffs next year, it won't be because Perry, Watson and Wilson were the RBs. The offense will live or die on Palmer's arm and his wideouts' hands, and the D simply has to improve against the run. And if we use all our dough on Rudi, TJ likely walks and our defensive "improvements" will amount to the same "wishin'/hopin'/prayin'" formula the Bengals followed far too many times for me to count.

[bengalboomer7]

That's another reason for the transition tag.

Rudi can take some pressure off of Palmer and I expect it to be a little easier for anyone to run given the fact D's will have to respect Palmer. But I don't want to start the season with a big fat ? in my backfield! And I think that's why they franchised him in the first place. If Perry could have played more, this probably is a completely different conversation.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Let him walk, make Perry the starter, resign Watson. Perry, Watson, Quincy Wilson, Jeremi Johnson

Ugh. Count on Marvin's first sub-500 season and Palmer's #'s to go way down if this happens and the 0-line isn't improved and TJ isn't re-signed.

Rarely do you get more than one draft pick who is going to make any difference right away per year.

Rookies aren't just little magical lephrecans who come in and rush for 1300 yards and 12 TD's. Or produce 900 yard, 8 TD years as #2 WR's.

It'd be different if the Bengals' were eyeing Alexander or another comparable back in FA and some o-lineman and defensive people from all the money they'd save.

We all know how unlikely that is.

I think Bengals fans are so used to getting a top 5 pick every year and then a high 2nd and 3rd rounder every year, that they think like Mike Brown now and rely on the draft, instead of paying proven FA's that you draft, that actually do what they were drafted to do 3 years later.

This offense, if it stays intact, and they focus on the 0-line instead and TE in the draft and FA (cheaper positions typically) will be a jauggernaut when Perry and Warrick come back next year.

Am I the only one who sees this offensive dynasty developing for the next five years with CJ, Palmer, Warrick, Rudi, Perry and TJ?

Jesus you have 3 potential top 5 players at 3 positions there folks, that would most likely make them instant playoff contendors - we saw what they did to teams like Baltimore and the Patriots as they got better.

Damn I feel like I'm talking to a wall with these fickle fans!!!!!!

Find a way to pay and sign Rudi and TJ, they have the money, and I sware to God I hope they do so all you Rudi whiners can have the privelage of watching him the next five years break Burger Flipper's ##@!!# records!!!!

WHO DEY!!!!

[HoosierCat]

If Perry could have played more, this probably is a completely different conversation.

Well, of course. But he didn't, so here we are.

All I know is this:

First, the Bengals let Takeo Spikes walk for nothing. Bengals fans screamed to high heaven.

The team went from 2-14 to 8-8 in a single season, a +6 increase, one of the biggest season-to-season gains of all time.

Then they traded Corey Dillon and benched the comeback player of the year in favor of a 4th round pick backup and an untested rookie, respectively. Bengals fans howled, whined, bitched, moaned and generally had a fit.

The team held steady at 8-8 despite a far tougher schedule and an IR list as long as Mr. Fantastic's arm.

Now all are crying that losing Rudi will mean the end of everything.

Forgive me if I'm not listening this time around.

[bengalboomer7]

Yeah, but in those cases we had somewhat "proven" players. We knew what Rudi could do through nine games and I believe we originally moved simmons to the inside after TKO left, and then got a proven vet in Hardy. We're talking about 2 friggin carries here, Joisey. Forgive me if I don't see as many similarities. I don't want to pay Rudi this much which is why I preached the Transition tag so much, but unless he starts thinking he's worth more than he is (which is looking probable more and more) I am not willing to watch him go, just because of what our backup plan would be (Sorry, but right now Perry, Watson, Wilson does not cut it in my NFL, sincerely Commishboomer7)

[HoosierCat]

Yeah, but in those cases we had somewhat "proven" players.

Well, Carson certainly wasn't proven in any sense. But that worked. And there were plenty of people who were leery of Rudi and his lack of experience last season. As for the Spikes scenario, you're right, they moved Simmons into his slot and put Hardy in the middle. And that experiment failed. Both players struggled with their new positions in 2003. So, oddly enough, the two times they went with inexperience, it worked, while the one time they tried to bring in experience, it flopped!