jjakq27 Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8201532Bengals could have handled Rudi differently By Pat KirwanNFL.com Senior Analyst(Feb. 16, 2005) -- My neighbor stopped me yesterday out at the mailbox and asked just what people in the NFL do now that the Super Bowl is over. He loves the game and follows it religiously, but he actually thought most NFL players, coaches and front office people take a month or two off to unwind from the season. After I got done explaining to him that the wheels of the business of football are moving quickly right now -- with the phones ringing off the hook to get deals done, cut players, hire the final assistant coaches, and blend in the information about draft prospects with potential unrestricted free agents -- he realized the most fascinating aspects of the game within the game are just getting under way. Let's look at a few of the decisions being made and some possible ramifications of those conclusions. Bengals tag running back Rudi Johnson The Cincinnati Bengals knew Rudi Johnson was going to be a great player when they traded Corey Dillon to the Patriots a year ago. Now that Rudi has rushed for 1,454 yards and 12 touchdowns they aren't about to let him go, so they slapped the franchise tag on him. The tag means if a team wants Johnson, they will have to give the Bengals two first-round picks. That should prevent any team from negotiating with Johnson, who has threatened to hold out and not report because of the one-year franchise tag. There might have been another way to deal with Johnson that would have taken some of the pressure off the Bengals and shift it to Johnson so the team doesn't look like the bad guy. I'm sure the Cincinnati decision-makers discussed the idea of a transition tag rather than a franchise tag and obviously rejected it as a technique, but in this case I might have considered it. Here is the scenario that could have played out with the transition tag (which is the average of the top 10 players at his position): Had Cincinnati put a transition tag on Johnson, the tender would have been $5.2 million instead of the $6.3 million franchise tag and would have given the team another $1.1 million of cap space for other players during the signing period. There would be no draft compensation for the Bengals if another team were to sign Johnson, but the Bengals would have the right to match an offer from another team that Johnson accepted. Instead of Johnson complaining he wasn't free to test the open market and not negotiating with the Bengals and ultimately holding out when Marvin Lewis is trying to build his team, Johnson could find out exactly what the market is for his services. With the number of quality free agents at the running-back position hitting the market, the potential to trade for Buffalo's Travis Henry, and three first-round running backs in the draft, Mr. Johnson might find the market a little under what he expected. The Bengals are among the top five teams in terms of available salary-cap space. Not many teams could put a deal together the Bengals couldn't match, so there is very little risk of losing Johnson. Also, the Bengals don't have to be the "bad guys" in the whole process. They can avoid any public conflicts with the player by merely matching the offer he brings back. That means they can avoid being the negotiators in the deal. The Bengals are in a position of being the messenger and have all the pressure on them to get Johnson back in a Bengals uniform. We all know the expression, "Don't shoot the messenger." While Johnson is out shopping for a deal, the Bengals could entertain a few of the quality free agents looking for a new team. What if LaMont Jordan wanted to come to Cincinnati for a fraction of what Johnson wants, or if Derrick Blaylock would love to be a Bengal and team up with Chris Perry as a tandem in the backfield? What if Travis Henry were available for a second-round pick? The point? There would be options, and you can always get Johnson back by matching the deal he brings -- if he finds a deal to bring. There is no doubt in my mind the Bengals organization under Marvin Lewis is headed in the right direction for the long haul, but this situation isn't going to help speed the process along. The transition tag doesn't work for every player or every team, but it looks like a fit in this case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboomer7 Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Like I said in the other post. I've been screaming for the exact same thing for weeks now!!! And I still haven't got a callback on the resume I submitted! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Sounds like a reasonable solution. I guess they want to be 100% sure they have him on the team this year. Playing it safe... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Yep that could've been the better way to handle it. A lot of people are questioning the way the Bengals' have handled this situation from day one and I don't blame them. They could've handled it much better than they have, it's not as if they haven't known this would happen for some time, including during last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Yep that could've been the better way to handle it. A lot of people are questioning the way the Bengals' have handled this situation from day one and I don't blame them. They could've handled it much better than they have, it's not as if they haven't known this would happen for some time, including during last season. It's hard to say. There's no telling what Rudi and the team have been saying to each other behind closed doors. We're speculating with very incomplete information.Who knows...maybe Rudi chose the franchise tag because it gave him more money than the transition tag (and he didn't expect to get more money from another team), so the Bengals did it as a sign of good faith that they felt he was worth the investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Who knows...maybe Rudi chose the franchise tag because it gave him more money than the transition tag (and he didn't expect to get more money from another team), so the Bengals did it as a sign of good faith that they felt he was worth the investment.I agree. To me this was like calling a timeout. It buys the Bengals some time and shows Rudi they are serious about him.However, from Rudi's side I can see why he threatened to sit out. Even though they put the tag on him for $6M, he doesn't actually get payed any of it until the regular season. If he gets injured in the meantime, he could conceiveably get released, etc. There is no upfront bonus money with the tag so he is taking a gamble even though the annual salary is probably more than what he would earn annually with a multiyear deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Who knows...maybe Rudi chose the franchise tag because it gave him more money than the transition tag (and he didn't expect to get more money from another team), so the Bengals did it as a sign of good faith that they felt he was worth the investment.I agree. To me this was like calling a timeout. It buys the Bengals some time and shows Rudi they are serious about him.However, from Rudi's side I can see why he threatened to sit out. Even though they put the tag on him for $6M, he doesn't actually get payed any of it until the regular season. If he gets injured in the meantime, he could conceiveably get released, etc. There is no upfront bonus money with the tag so he is taking a gamble even though the annual salary is probably more than what he would earn annually with a multiyear deal. Right. Still, something obviously changed. He was threatening to sit out, and now is saying he probably won't do that. Something was discussed that changed his mind... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboomer7 Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Think about all the bargaining power the bengals would have had with that transition tag, though. If his agent was to pull a stunt saying he had a lucrative offer for another team, you jusst call his bluff and another team way overpays for him. I guess the only downside would have been getting nothing in return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted February 17, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Think about all the bargaining power the bengals would have had with that transition tag, though. If his agent was to pull a stunt saying he had a lucrative offer for another team, you jusst call his bluff and another team way overpays for him. I guess the only downside would have been getting nothing in return Yep, they still get grilled, two years later, because that's what happened with Spikes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8201532Bengals could have handled Rudi differently By Pat KirwanNFL.com Senior AnalystThe Bengals are among the top five teams in terms of available salary-cap space. Not many teams could put a deal together the Bengals couldn't match, so there is very little risk of losing Johnson. This statement I found most interesting.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skyline Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 http://www.nfl.com/news/story/8201532Bengals could have handled Rudi differently By Pat KirwanNFL.com Senior AnalystThe Bengals are among the top five teams in terms of available salary-cap space. Not many teams could put a deal together the Bengals couldn't match, so there is very little risk of losing Johnson.This statement I found most interesting.... Me too. I'd like to see the numbers on that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glnwf Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Sounds like the perfect solution to me alsoTons of barganing power there for our Bengals; and don't house a disgruntled runningback again.Free Agency, Draft is fairly wealthy also :player: Why doesn't our team see this?????????? :player: Come on Marvin, done so well so far; see the trees in the forest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrishcovga Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 It's already been reported that the deal that Rudi's agent ( Shaffer) says the Bengals are mulling over is less than the Franchise amount, and closer to 5 mil. a year. 5 Mil a year for a 1400 yard running back, with 12 touchdowns is a decent offer.But Rudi still isn't a pass catching threat, and if Chris Perry is a " legitimate " first round talent at runningback and plays healthy this year, then in the long run we're asking Rudi to run less while being paid more to do so. The Deal has to be in the average of Base pay of 3.5 mil -- 4.5 mil with incentives plain and Simple. And it can't be any more than a 5 year deal. By that time Rudi will be 30 years old, and it gives him the opportunity to go somewhere else, and the Bengals to elleviate future cap hits! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboomer7 Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 The one thing I don't like is that it seems like the way things are panning out that Rudi and his agent has some big dollar signs in their head. If that is true, then in my opinion it would have been much smarter to transition him so he could see that the market isn't very good. Too much supply, not enough demand so to speak, which should drop the price of a free agent running back. Right now, though, I think Rudi and his agent are looking for a megadeal, i just hope the bengals stand firm in their negotiations. Last time I checked either 3 mill or 5 mill still equals to RICH in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FonzieDog Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 I think of this as a one year insurance policy at the RB position. If they can't get the long-term deal then they have a solid RB in the backfield while they determine what Chris Perry is going to become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delhole Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 The Bengals are among the top five teams in terms of available salary-cap space. Not many teams could put a deal together the Bengals couldn't match, so there is very little risk of losing Johnson.This is an interesting little fact I picked out of the article. It doesn't say exactly how much cap space is available but I thought the bengals would be near the bottom considering all the talk about not being able to sign both rudi and tj. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 Like I said in the other post. I've been screaming for the exact same thing for weeks now!!! And I still haven't got a callback on the resume I submitted! I've championed the transition tag as an option at various points as well. The big downside -- at least if you're Mikey -- is the "Sapp" scenario, where someone gives him a big backloaded deal. Mikey hates those. Doesn't want to match one. The franchisetag prevents one from ever being made.In the Enquirer story on the tag, I saw a reference from Rudi's agent regarding the glacial pace of negotiations: in 17 months the Bengals have made one offer, Rudi counteroffered, and since then...nada.Sounds to me a bit like they're hoping he'll take the franchise tender. That gives them another year to test-drive the Perrymobile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dewboy01 Posted February 17, 2005 Report Share Posted February 17, 2005 However, from Rudi's side I can see why he threatened to sit out. Even though they put the tag on him for $6M, he doesn't actually get payed any of it until the regular season. If he gets injured in the meantime, he could conceiveably get released, etc. There is no upfront bonus money with the tag so he is taking a gamble even though the annual salary is probably more than what he would earn annually with a multiyear deal. No upfront bonus money is needed, once the franchise tender is offered by the team and signed by the player...it is guaranteed money. And the thought that Rudi had any input into whether to use the transition tag or the franchise tag is ridiculous. It should be obvious that the reason the transition tag wasn't used is that the Bengals didn't want another team to come in with a high dollar, multi year offer that we would have to match or risk losing him with no compensation. Marvin wants him on the team, but on Marvin's terms. The franchise tag assures that he will either play for the Bengals this season or we will receive something (player, draft pick) for him if he goes elsewhere. That isn't the case with the transition tag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BengalByTheBay Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 I would bet that about 30% of fans would be pissed no matter what the Bengals did here. If they didn't tag him and he walked the story would've been how stupid they were for letting such a great RB go. If they transitioned him and he signed elsewhere it would've been how stupid and it's just like TKO. So, when the franchise him and everybody wants to Monday morning QB it, I say it's about as good as anything else. What's going to happen on d? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboomer7 Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 I agree with you Dewboy, but the market really wasn't that good for Rudi. It's a good draft year for RB's and there are some pretty big free agent names and trades out there where it would have been unlikely for Rudi to get his "megadeal" elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walshfan Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Market is allways good if a team can get him for a second rounder and keep their first pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bengalboomer7 Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 He has to be signed to be traded so that has nothing to do with the market. He can't be traded to anyone unless he is under contract and with the transition tag the bengals would have had the right to match any offer another team gave him. So, if he didn't get any big offers from any team the bengals would have more negoitiating power in achieving a more cap friendly contratct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted February 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 However, from Rudi's side I can see why he threatened to sit out. Even though they put the tag on him for $6M, he doesn't actually get payed any of it until the regular season. If he gets injured in the meantime, he could conceiveably get released, etc. There is no upfront bonus money with the tag so he is taking a gamble even though the annual salary is probably more than what he would earn annually with a multiyear deal.No upfront bonus money is needed, once the franchise tender is offered by the team and signed by the player...it is guaranteed money. And the thought that Rudi had any input into whether to use the transition tag or the franchise tag is ridiculous. It should be obvious that the reason the transition tag wasn't used is that the Bengals didn't want another team to come in with a high dollar, multi year offer that we would have to match or risk losing him with no compensation. Marvin wants him on the team, but on Marvin's terms. The franchise tag assures that he will either play for the Bengals this season or we will receive something (player, draft pick) for him if he goes elsewhere. That isn't the case with the transition tag. Maybe so. The way I heard or understand it is if he signs the francise offer he doesn't get any of the money until week 1 of the season. The only thing "guaranteed" is if he signs a long term contract and he gets that bonus money up front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted February 18, 2005 Author Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Here is the latest from bengals.com.NEWS AND NOTES: Don't expect anything new on the Rudi Johnson front for awhile. His agent, Peter Schaffer, had no comment Thursday, but did confirm he'll have his annual dinner with Bengals vice president Paul Brown next week at the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis. The fare is always sushi and when asked if Johnson is on the menu for discussion, Schaffer said, "I imagine he is." ... Vern Sharbaugh, the agent for center Rich Braham, said Thursday he has talked to the club a couple of times about re-signing his client. Sharbaugh said indications are the Bengals are quite interested and they're just waiting for Braham to be cleared from the small fracture around the knee that ended his season. Sharbaugh isn't sure if that will be before or after free agency opens March 2 ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPW Posted February 18, 2005 Report Share Posted February 18, 2005 Think about all the bargaining power the bengals would have had with that transition tag, though. If his agent was to pull a stunt saying he had a lucrative offer for another team, you jusst call his bluff and another team way overpays for him. I guess the only downside would have been getting nothing in returnJust what bargaining power are you talking about ?The power to "call his bluff" and then let him walk to another team ?Yea getting nothing in return certainly is a downside, but tell me again, just what is the upside ?The Transition Tag is very Weak compared the Franchise Tag ...Teams can and do find creative ways to structure offers, that make it very difficult or impossible for you to match them.Teams do lose players with no value in return with the transition tag.Remember Takeo Spikes ?Teams do make deals that return at least some value for their players under the franchise tag.Remember Big-Daddy ?The Bengals are not the bad-guys in this ...A number of teams have tagged one of their FA players in the last week or two.In every case it was the Franchise Tag ...In fact, you rarely see any team use the transition tag unless they already have used the franchise tag on another player.If you are not able to re-sign a player, the Franchise Tag is the only one, that provides the Team with any real Protection.Everyone of those other teams could have handled it differently, but I don't see Pat Kirwan making any mention of that fact.I take it that in his mind, it is perfectly alright for any other team to slap the franchise tag on a player.But for some reason the Bengals are suppose to just bend-over and let their players walk with nothing in return.He really gave himself away, when he mentioned that one option would be to maybe pick up Travis Henry for a 2nd round draft pick.Yea that would Really be in the Team's Best Interests ...Let your RB Walk for no value in return and then have to Give up a High Pick to Replace him.Any way that this pans out, the Bengals made the right move ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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