cantna!

[halp]

griz.....as my dad said: "youth is wasted on the young." one day the light will go on and you will realize WE'RE all on the same page!!!!!!! i have faith in you. believe. live the dream. it will happen. but accept reality.

[AGrizzlyBaer]

i know just having a little fun

[redsfan2]

Winning the division because they lose to other teams would be hollow to me.

WHAT?! Winning the division would be awesome no matter how it comes, I'm not going to be picky. 12 years of crap, excuses from bad coaches, and Brown giving us junk the whole time? I don't care how we do it, I'll take it any way we can get it.

Look, we still have a legitmate chance at winning it. We need help, most teams in the NFL need help, that's the nature of the beast.

Knew I was going to catch hell for that one. Just got back from a trip or I'd have responded sooner.

Point is, that sole posession of first was at stake. You win the game, and you've earned it. Baltimore did and they have it. My indifference to the Ravens is because our business with them is done for the year. The focus of my ambition for the team is that we win two of the next 3 and get that winning record that we haven't had in years.

I wouldn't want to see the Ravens lose their last 3, have us win 1 of the last 3 and end up with the division under those circumstances. To me, that is a hollow victory. It's like winning at pool when the other guy scratches on the 8.

I'd rather see us run the table. I keep saying win 2, because I'm obsessing on that winning record, but I would always like to see them win of course. We do that, and what happens happens. Ravens win out and get the division, then more power to them. I don't begrudge them a bit because they earned it. If they do falter while we win out then we sneak in, & I'd gladly take that too. To me it would have been " cleaner " to beat them in head to head competition. I consider one way to be good and the other way to be lucky. Lucky don't last, but good do. Contrary to the saying, I'd rather be good than lucky.

I guess that the other reason I'm not as fixated on the playoffs is that I'm convinced that if we don't make it this year then we will next.

[Kirkendall]

I see your point. Winning the AFC North crown sure would be sweet, wouldn't it? Yea, next season -- wow -- the expectations might be very high (too high?)

[redsfan2]

I see your point. Winning the AFC North crown sure would be sweet, wouldn't it? Yea, next season -- wow -- the expectations might be very high (too high?)

Expectations for next year.

I think a winning record is almost a certainty, and the playoffs ( at some level ) very realistic. Our new found scouting department has already been scoping the college pool, and I doubt that the success of the Bengasl free agent acquisitions has been lost on the potential free agents for next year.

We won't be drafting as high ( thank god ), but the Bengals did manage to come up with some pretty good late round picks as well. Also don't know what we may able to trade up for. Also for a change, I think more the agents of more free agnets will be contacting the Bengals as opposed to the other way around. *

Considering that we are almost doing all of the above this year, I don't think projecting more of the same for next year is being overly optimistic.

* Do you think everyone who is here now will still be here next year ????????? I don't.

[kevnz]

We won't be drafting as high ( thank god ), but the Bengals did manage to come up with some pretty good late round picks as well. Also don't know what we may able to trade up for. Also for a change, I think more the agents of more free agnets will be contacting the Bengals as opposed to the other way around. *

Considering that we are almost doing all of the above this year, I don't think projecting more of the same for next year is being overly optimistic.

* Do you think everyone who is here now will still be here next year ????????? I don't.

Yeah, it'll be nice to not have to tie up so much cap money on rookies, and since this years draft seems pretty deep the talent should still be there so no reaching....Perhaps the Bengals could even land a 3rd round draft pick as compansation for losing TKO? Not sure how exactly it works, but at least a 4th rounder hopefully.

Oh, I think this roster is going to change for next year. The only reason they have so many holdovers from last year is cause you can't replace a whole team in one season. But it also doesn't help that the cap space is gonna be kinda tight and there are some key players coming up to free agency...(I still don't think Rudi will be here next here....Some team will pony up the big bucks for him.....but then we'd get a first round pick(if handled properly(and it will be, I'm sure)) The offseason will be very interesting, and the best thing is that it may be even a little later than normal....But I'm just hoping that they get to 9-7 and have a winning record again....Anything else is just gravy.

[redsfan2]

We won't be drafting as high ( thank god ), but the Bengals did manage to come up with some pretty good late round picks as well. Also don't know what we may able to trade up for. Also for a change, I think more the agents of more free agnets will be contacting the Bengals as opposed to the other way around. *

Considering that we are almost doing all of the above this year, I don't think projecting more of the same for next year is being overly optimistic.

* Do you think everyone who is here now will still be here next year ????????? I don't.

Yeah, it'll be nice to not have to tie up so much cap money on rookies, and since this years draft seems pretty deep the talent should still be there so no reaching....Perhaps the Bengals could even land a 3rd round draft pick as compansation for losing TKO? Not sure how exactly it works, but at least a 4th rounder hopefully.

Oh, I think this roster is going to change for next year. The only reason they have so many holdovers from last year is cause you can't replace a whole team in one season. But it also doesn't help that the cap space is gonna be kinda tight and there are some key players coming up to free agency...(I still don't think Rudi will be here next here....Some team will pony up the big bucks for him.....but then we'd get a first round pick(if handled properly(and it will be, I'm sure)) The offseason will be very interesting, and the best thing is that it may be even a little later than normal....But I'm just hoping that they get to 9-7 and have a winning record again....Anything else is just gravy.

Takeo got the transition tag, which means we get no compensation for him from Buffalo. We would have gotten a pick if he had been hit with the franchise tag, but that would have upped his price and I don't think Marvin Lewis wanted to take a chance on getting stuck with a high cost player who didn't want to be here.

I'd say a minimum of 3 from the defense and 2 from the offense won't be here next year. Depending on the draft and free agency, that could be more than a little bit higher.

I doubt you'll see Rudi AND CD back next year. It'll more likely be one or the other depending on how things go, but not both. Could also be a VACANCY sign hanging on the door to the offensive line too.

Secondary is in for a shake up, and we need someone who can consistently stop the run. We still seem to be looking for that returner on special teams too.

Ask who stays and who goes, and you'll get as many answers as you have people posting here. Ravens fans were saying something about coveting a few of their players, but I can't think of anyone who's available that I'd like to see on the team. They've got some good players no doubt, but I think we'll be doing our shopping elsewhere and trying to get some better bargains.

[halp]

try some zeplin, 'wolf, crosby stills nash & young, maybe even a little hendrix. tryi it. you'll like it!!!!!!!! rock on

[kevnz]

Takeo got the transition tag.

No no no. Not that sort of thing. The league awards draft picks to teams for losing free agents....It's kinda compensation for Free Agency...It's got nothing to do with the Bills.

As for FA's well there are some very good centers on the market starting with the Center from NE, and The Ravens center...also the FA market for CB's is very very deep, Lewis and Frasier could attract one here without having to break the bank for him...

cheers

[Kirkendall]

The league awards draft picks to teams for losing free agents....It's kinda compensation for Free Agency

Didn't the league stop that this off-season, maybe last? I'm almost convinced that's changed, but I'm not sure, I thought I heard a snidbit of it this summer. I could be thinking of something else though.

[kevnz]

Speaking of FA CB's I've just read this at bengals.com

“You’d definitely have to consider it because of what the Bengals are doing,” Plummer said. “It makes anybody interested in the Bengals right now. They’re on the up. In my opinion, they’re right there. They’re right there in the mix. You’d have to see if it was best for the Bengals and you’ve got to see if it’s best for myself. But it’s definitely a consideration."

This from Ahmed Plummer who will bolt SF at the end of the season, and The 40Whiners will probably have to use one of their tags on their LB Petereson......Marvin Lewis is the man

[kevnz]

Didn't the league stop that this off-season, maybe last? I'm almost convinced that's changed, but I'm not sure, I thought I heard a snidbit of it this summer. I could be thinking of something else though.

Could be, but if they have I haven't read anything about it....I can't say I see owners voting against it...gotta love draft picks, especially if they're free....But what do I know?

[kingwilly]

As also stated in the article, Ahmed Plummer is a Cincinnati native. Grew up on the East side, went to Wyoming HS. then to Ohio State.

He is a very good cover corner who also tackles well.

49ers site has this:

"Talented, hard-working cover-man…Plays run and pass equally well...Has started 44-of-46 games in four-year career…Named to first career ALL-MADDEN team in 2001...Intense study of game film has resulted in his development of veteran savvy and understanding when on the field...Tied for team lead and ranked seventh in NFL with seven interceptions in 2001...Gifted athlete with quick feet and great head for the game...Aggressive performer with great around the ball skills...Earned ALL-ROOKIE honors from Football News and Football Newsweekly...Became first 49er rookie cornerback to start majority of games since Merton Hanks in 1991. "

Other top CB's who will be UFA's in 2004:

CB Chris McAlister, BAL - connection with Marvin Lewis

CB Charles Woodson, OAK

CB Troy Vincent, PHI - connection with Leslie Frazier

CB Champ Bailey, WAS -connection with Marvin Lewis

CB Shawn Springs, SEA

Besides reinforcing the D and O Line with a couple of hogs, CB is still a weak area.

Bad coverage cost us late in both the BUF and OAK games (can anyone say Jeff Burris?).I would even venture to say that Tory James's game has dropped off a bit, as David Boston had him all turned around (I was at that game and saw fisrt hand). Boston and TO are very similar in size, speed and skills.

The addition of one or even two top level CB's (you can tell what I want for Christmas) would solidify the D. Some might say that coverage starts with pass rush, true, but if we had a Champ Bailey or Chris McCallister bask there jamming up a guy like Moulds and Rice, those games would be W's and we'd all be happy at 9-4 instead of 7-6 fighting for the playoffs.

[richmond_mat]

...Winning the AFC North crown sure would be sweet, wouldn't it? Yea, next season -- wow -- the expectations might be very high (too high?)

With all of the top draft picks, winning the title in the near future should be managable with good coaching.

Unless, our picks have been poor, but NOT ALL of them have been.

The recent lineman seem well chosen. One or two more ... [reader fill in]

Go Bengals

[kevnz]

Kingwilly,

I just don't see the Bengals landing Bailey or McAlister as they will both be tagged. Springs is somewhat overated and coming off an injury, Woodson also comes with a buyer beware tag after slamming his coach...Gotta keep that locker room chemisty going....The only other CB that I can see coming to the Bengals would be Vincent because of the Frazier connection and the Eagles have shown a willingness to let players leave, plus if I'm not mistaken they have a few other people to sign so money becomes an issue.

Gotta love playing armchair GM and not talking about a top five pick

[kingwilly]

I'll take Vincent and Plummer any day of the week. Then Burris can move on and Artrell can come in and nickel. Or change off with KK and some of the younger guys. We stil don't know how good Weathersby will be once he gets his game on. I'm happy with our safety play, Roman and Beckett are solid, Manuel is a hitter on special teams.

I think you are right about the other guys. Woodson also has had injuries bother him as well.

Bailey may end up available as Washington also has $$ issues, they spend a ton of it.

The draft is a fishing expedition. We could have a geeat draft again like this year or end up with some busts. Not drafting in the top 5 is such a big deal. Wow, I mean how long has it been since we did not have like one of the top 10 picks?

On the O side I have read some things about the linemen coming out. There are omse doosies. How much longer can Willie Anderson go, another 3-5 years befoire he ends up backing up some young 370 lb guy who can run a 5.0 40? I see us also investing in another WR. I know we are flush at that position but with TJ Housh out basically all year and Walter playing special teams alot, there is not much depth after Chad, P-W and Kelly Wash. Hamlton is gone and that means should anyone go down, Walter is the 3rd man in the set. Not bad but how about a burner as a back-up, even to decoy.

RB could be another spot. Bennett and Rudi fought off Ray Jackson but should one or both, or CD leave they need depth. A guy like Sproles from K State just detonated the vaunted Oklahoma D. He is small but so quick it is unreal, like Ladanian Tomlinson but even smaller. They thought LT was undersized. Not an everydown back but a 3rd down guy who can catch the screen, which we don't use, or take a draw, like Bennet does now. We will have Rudi or CD but probably not both.

...ahhh but I ramble. In the old days of the draft we'd take a QB or punter. >>shudder<<

[Kirkendall]

CB Chris McAlister, BAL - $

CB Charles Woodson, OAK - $ and Dillon attitude.

CB Troy Vincent, PHI - $$ - If Phily is having money problems signing Vincent, I can't imagine the Bengals would be able to sign him.

CB Champ Bailey, WAS - Would love it, but again $

CB Shawn Springs, SEA - Gotta love them OSU boys but we could get better in the draft.

Inasmuch I would love to have any of those cornerbacks, realistically it's not going to happen. Marvin did one thing that flows with consistancy in Baltimore AND Pittsburgh (while he wasn't the coord, he still helped the decision making process), that one thing is develop young talent. He's not going to put up with veterns whom could pose problems and he can't mold himself. While I think all those Cornerbacks would be fabulous additions, they aren't worth the money. It would mean cutting from another aspect of the team, and Marvin will not do that, not since we singed James to a four-year contract for $14.4 million. That's a lot of money for one position.

It's not about how great a player is, just how all the players play with each other. The Marlins didn't beat the Yanks with high priced players -- wow a baseball reference, my bad!

Also Tory James is fine. He's looked abused for about two weeks and counting, but looking at it, he has absolutely no help deep. In the Tampa Bay scheme, and I believe Baltimores, both safties always covered deep. There are countless times that Beckett (whose a great run support Saftey, completely bomb it on deep passes) shows up late for either James, Burris, or KasV.

While another cornerback would be great, we need to look at our safties first if the discussion is seconaries. They are not helping our cornerbacks. I'll admit it could be partially blamed on Frazier's blitzing scheme forcing the CB to cover man to man, but we all have to admit that our CBs can't hold off receivers all game. There are those select few that have that ability, but none of them work in Cincy.

[redsfan2]

CB Chris McAlister, BAL - $

CB Charles Woodson, OAK - $ and Dillon attitude.

CB Troy Vincent, PHI - $$ - If Phily is having money problems signing Vincent, I can't imagine the Bengals would be able to sign him.

CB Champ Bailey, WAS - Would love it, but again $

CB Shawn Springs, SEA - Gotta love them OSU boys but we could get better in the draft.

Inasmuch I would love to have any of those cornerbacks, realistically it's not going to happen.  Marvin did one thing that flows with consistancy in Baltimore AND Pittsburgh (while he wasn't the coord, he still helped the decision making process), that one thing is develop young talent.  He's not going to put up with veterns whom could pose problems and he can't mold himself.  While I think all those Cornerbacks would be fabulous additions, they aren't worth the money.  It would mean cutting from another aspect of the team, and Marvin will not do that, not since we singed James to a four-year contract for $14.4 million.  That's a lot of money for one position. 

It's not about how great a player is, just how all the players play with each other.  The Marlins didn't beat the Yanks with high priced players -- wow a baseball reference, my bad!

Also Tory James is fine.  He's looked abused for about two weeks and counting, but looking at it, he has absolutely no help deep.  In the Tampa Bay scheme, and I believe Baltimores, both safties always covered deep.  There are countless times that Beckett (whose a great run support Saftey, completely bomb it on deep passes) shows up late for either James, Burris, or KasV.

While another cornerback would be great, we need to look at our safties first if the discussion is seconaries.  They are not helping our cornerbacks.  I'll admit it could be partially blamed on Frazier's blitzing scheme forcing the CB to cover man to man, but we all have to admit that our CBs can't hold off receivers all game.  There are those select few that have that ability, but none of them work in Cincy.

McAlister and Bailey both get tagged.

We just got rid of several Woodsons, so I would pray we don't go out and adopt another one.

Springs may be a pretty good player, but he didn't seem to make out that well when he came to Cincinnati.

Bailey would be my pick, but Vincent could be the better fit ( if we could afford him ) due to his familiarity with Fraziers system. If as you suggest, part of the problem could be Fraziers schemes, then who better to help implement it on the field than a guy who's played in it ????

Never heard of a problem with him, so I don't think chemistry would be a problem either. I agree that a guy has to fit the team professionally and personally.

Failing that, maybe we could get Suggs when he's paroled and let him have at the the other teams receivers ala Harding with a piece of re bar. That ought to slow them down.

[Jam31]

Quote from my boy C-Mac this past week:

"I ain't going nowhere," McAlister said. "For the record, McAlister will be a Raven. I'll be a Raven for my entire natural-born life. When I retire, I'm going to work up with Ozzie [Newsome] in the scouting department."

Why is McAlister so adamant about staying?

"I love the system," McAlister said. "I love the way we get treated as players, from the head coach to the owner. I haven't experienced any other team, and I don't want to experience any other team. But I've known guys who have come in and out of this system from other teams, and it's not pretty out there. So I'm real comfortable with what I've got going on here."

AS for the draft picks, let me chime in here, speaking from a wealth of experience I wouldn't expect jack squat from the league re: compensatory pics for TKO.

After our cap purge, we lose Woodson, Sharpe, Adams, Starks, Dalton, Webster, Sharper, Jermaine Lewis, and Qadry Ismail....can you guess what compensation we got the following year????

3 stinking 6th round pics! Now Oz has parlayed them into Chad Williams, Chester Taylor, and Javin Hunter (wr from ND on IR for '03)

Chalk it up it to the Ravens being the red-headed stepchild of the NFL or just bad luck but the "formula" they use isn't an exact scientific formula. Its more of people's opinions and bias'.

All that said, I certainly wouldn't be hoping for a 4th rounder if I were you.....time will tell I guess

[kevnz]

After our cap purge, we lose Woodson, Sharpe, Adams, Starks, Dalton, Webster, Sharper, Jermaine Lewis, and Qadry Ismail....can you guess what compensation we got the following year????

3 stinking 6th round pics! Now Oz has parlayed them into Chad Williams, Chester Taylor, and Javin Hunter (wr from ND on IR for '03)

Wasn't a lot of those people cut, and not signed away? That would make a difference I would assume....You shouldn't get compensation for cutting someone. Even if it's cause of the salery cap that they're cut.

As for the quote from McAlister....I'm sure if someone ponied up the cash he'd happily go Baltimore who? But I don't see him going anywhere until the Ravens will have to cut him in about 4 years because the cap hit will be 10 million. Don't you just love what you have to do to a superstar contract to make it fit under the cap, but that's the nature of life in the NFL nowadays.

cheers

[Kirkendall]

Don't you just love what you have to do to a superstar contract to make it fit under the cap, but that's the nature of life in the NFL nowadays.

Yea, it can be a pain. But it's the best financial system and bargaining agreement in all of sports. Look at Baseball and all of the player movements and the 28 non-competitive teams -- that alone has degraded interest in the game and fan compassion in their respected cities. Hockey lost $300 million last season and may go on strike next season because ownership wants to restrict contracts -- the same owners that made the contract outrageous in the first place. NBA almost fell into trouble in post-Jordan without that one godly like representative, but rebounded putting the cast of ambassadors on an assortment of players.

I think the labor agreement screws a lot of players over, partially the reason I think a new team would alleviate the financial pressures on revenues and allow teams to retain their free agents at market value. But we'll probably see a stike then too. I love Corporate America!

[BengalszoneBilly]

For a change, I think more free agents will be contacting the Bengals as opposed to the other way around.

Kirkendall,

That's a very good and largely overlooked point, about prospective free agents actually putting Cincy on their possibility list. I'm pretty sure that before this season, 10 out of 10 free agents would not even consider the Bengals. Now with the turnaround that coach Lewis has engineered, those players will have the Bengals high on their list, I'm sure!

[Kirkendall]

Even more so, I think the free agents will recognize that this team is on the road to championship ball. Not only does Marvin give influence, but so does the prospect of winning each week. WOW! Are we talking about the Bengals?

[BengalszoneBilly]

Yeah, we sure are talking about the Bengals! In that context, I've never talked about something that felt so strange, and yet feel so good at the same time!! The path that Marvin Lewis has the team headed, I'm sure that strange feeling will soon be non exsistent!

[richmond_mat]

you cannot build a team with free agents!

We need to start having our draft picks perform. I'm amazed what the new staff has done with P W. Thank godness they got rid of the fourth round punter/kicker. He will do better elsewhere with proper coaching, perhaps.

I'd be very leary of picking players from the current Oklahoma team. It reminds me of Kijana's Penn state team. We picked the worst player on the team first!!!

WAIT A MINUTE.

We can still make the playoffs

Go Bengals!